Returning Player :: Strafing Zon in Hell

[MalVeauX]

Hey guys,

Well, after taking quite some time off of Diablo2, seeing the new runewords had me all excited to try a few things and it brought me back to the endless hunt of meaningless digital items.

Anyhow, after creating a new account and starting from scratch, I raised a lighting sorceress to level 76 Act1 Hell in just two days after months of not playing. I guess old habits stick eh? I just feel sorry for the poor guy who got a Dol rune in my NM forge drop for the run he gave. Regardless... it brought me back up to speed and I spent most of the past two days MF'ing a bit, in order to be able to (a) shop in hell and (b) MF a few super uniques, zones, etc.

Now that I'm back in business, namely thanks to the retarded powers of insight mercs + sorceress (what were they thinking? unlimited mana? crrraaazyyyy) I've been able to rocket to places that normally required much more "gear" back in 1.10. So I'm very much liking the cheapness of some of the new runewords.

Which brings me to Edge.

I love to gamble. Edge and gamble go hand in hand. But what about "other" aspects of Edge? The way I'm reading the description, it's an insanely cheap bow to make, but it seems useless at first glance, other than the cheaper vendor prices. Then at second glance, I noticed a huge chunk of IAS on top of leech and even more, on top of zero % damage increase. It started to remind me of the 1.09 bow runewords which were so completely useless. Anyhow, seeing as how this bow requires zero rune investment, it seems harmless to play along and give it a try. So I look at the %'s to the daemons and undead and I wdoner to myself... could this still be a bow that deals damage?

So that brings me to the Zon forum.

Has anyone made an "Edge" zon yet? Is it at all viable? And I don't mean in a massively twinked super killer kind of way. I'm talking about layed back, likes to play now and then, kind of way. Most of all, I was thinking of using Strafe with this Edge, because of the speed. However, I'm not sure how the damage will work out. I was thinking of a Freezing Arrow build with Strafe and Merc/Valk on the side. I'm thinking of riding up to Hell mode and unleashing the weak damage of the bow into the citizens of the Pit perhaps, just for giggles.

So can someone explain to me the damage of the Edge bow?
Does it indeed do what I think it does? Hordes of groovey damage against the silliest of little creatures, daemons and undead alike? And it does so oh-so-fast?

I look at the cheap Spider Bows and I think, wow, the speed combined with the IAS of the runeword would make this a really fast bow with a little extra IAS gear for a fast strafer. The base damage of the bow is good enough for solo, and I won't need mana or leeech.

Am I just totally off the track here and missed the big hole somewhere? Or is this possible for the lazy weekend warrior?

Cheers! :)

[MalVeauX]

I take it no one really plays the bow amazon anymore? Is edge too "pathetic" to even talk about? Anyone read here anymore? ;)

[Veilside]

to be honest edge is complete rubbish. if you want a nice cheap runeword you're much better off using a harmony.

[MalVeauX]

So the %damage to deamons doesn't show up in the game? The undead damage neither?

Assume we have a 50 base damage bow. I won't leech much at all, but that's ok, but won't the damage still be nice from the %damage extra? Or am I missing something that makes it do zero damage pretty much?

I'm not looking to have a cheap super bow. I'm just looking to have fun. But if the bow literally can't kill something in hell in solo games, I won't bother, and just make a cheap short bow edge that can help me gamble better.

But if I can put it to use as well, that'd be fun.

---- Next question: Harmony.

4 socket Elite bows aren't that easy to find; and usually trade for too much thanks to the new words.

I have a 50 damage 4 socket Matriarchal bow, with only +1 to skills and 8% natural enhanced damage. Considering the low low price of Harmony, would this be a suitable bow for it? Or is the damage going to be way too low? I figure it will be 160~ish maybe close to 190 damage if I get a good variation on the ED%. That's still pretty low in comparison to many other bows. But for a strafer, it's a -10 bow that's fast and has decent damage for solo runs no? Or should I just wait out for something better to throw the cheap runes into?

Cheers!

[YogiRat]

I'd "Harmonize" the Matri right now and wait for a +3 to drop. If you are a strafer, plus bow skills really isn't that important. For example, I finally had a ko drop two days ago in our HC tourney. I took the first plain white -10 exceptional bow I found (blade), threw it in the cube with a Ral,Amn and Amethyst and got 4 sockets. Even with a mediocre roll, (231ED) I can take out anything in NM with just a couple shots. Baal takes a little longer of course. The beauty of using a non zon bow is that it can be handed down to a rogue after a better bow is found.

Edge is kind of an ugly duckling/swan rw. For normal use it doesn't cut it, but in demon infested areas like the CS or WSK, it truly shines. It is the "boss killer" rune word. Also with a strong deek/valk/merc, the Thorns aura becomes a positive factor.

[AnimeCraze]

Isn't the +ED to demon treated like off weapon damage still, even if they are on a weapon?

[Pucho]

Isn't the +ED to demon treated like off weapon damage still, even if they are on a weapon?
It is. On or off-weapon is the same.

[AnimeCraze]

So isn't this bow junk even if you use it in Chaos?

[Pucho]

I thougth so, no ED% = no-no.
The only thing I see useful is the reduce vendor prices.
Maybe if you full the inv with damage charms+ gore riders, but I think that there are a lot of better bows to use.

[Omikron8]

any exceptional unique bow easily beats edge

[MalVeauX]

Yes yes, we all know there are better bows. The point was to make an interesting non-used offensively bow, work. Obviously it won't work since it does zero damage past normal mode.

Harmony it is.

Cheers!

[MalVeauX]

An update:

Well, I built her up to level 86 now, and she's finished all but the Anya quest of Act V Hell Mode. Along the way, I pulled an Um rune from the Forge with some luck and afforded all the other runes I needed to make low end gear (Wealth, Harmony, etc) and already used my previous Sorc to MF some other items that she needed.

I ran into problems in Hell:

1 - Low damage strafe. My strafe is only running 1,000 damage basically and that's the maximum. I'm afraid my bow just isn't high enough on the physical damage (it's a 155 haromony in a matriarchal bow). My Dex is very close to 400 now, and I often switch between Witchwild and the Harmony. The Witchwild seems to cause more damage sometimes, but other times, the Harmony seems to do better.

--- I added my merc, lvl 86 as well, Might Aura. I geared him up to live and he does so, but dies now and then to nasty mobs with ugly auras ane elemental attacks (he has 65 res all in hell, 3k defense and 2k life). The damage he adds to my Strafe is rather pathetic. A measily 200~300 damage or so on the top end. That's nothing, so I don't think I even need him other than a Tank, and my Valk (lvl 17) is better.

2 - I fixed my damage problem. While killing in the pits, I found an Lacerator. This little baby works wonders on my weapon switch to quickly throw it, due to the 33% chance to amp. I throw 4 or 5 times and the mob is amped (or the Psy immune boss loses that). Then I switch to strafe and it mows right through them beautifully. Except I run into my next problem...

3 - Attack Rating just doesn't cut it. With 3k natural attack rating in Hell, my Strafe is havinga 65~+% chance to hit. I notice it doesn't hit very often and I'm simply not dealing my damage because I'm missing. If I miss that first hit, all the next seem to miss as well. I tried things to up my attack rating but since Strafe adds no attack rating and docks my damage, down, I got rather miffed out how nerfed this skill seemed to be. My freezing arrow rocks with 10k AR and great damage, but most of the enemies are cold immune and so it's worthless I find (weird it's in the guide?).

--- The solution I tried, was to give myself a huge boost in AR to try it out to see if that truly was the problem, or if my damage was just too low. So, I shoped in town for about 5 minutes until one of those cheap Visionary helms spawned, that give % attack rating bonus based on character level, so I got a 86% boost to attack rating. Now, my attack rating with this cheap crap helm soared up towards 6~7k AR roughly and my to-hit value is near 80% chance to hit finally. I went pitting and noticed it hitting much more often and I found the mobs dieing much more faster. Plus, with the added AR, my Lacerator throws landed more often and I amped quicker, so I found myself chewing through the pits no problem throwing the Axe, Amping, Strafing away and watching it finally work.

So, things to note for anything making a Strafe Zon who don't have the absolute uber gear that guides tend to seem to expect you have:

1 - Max damage isn't the absolute answer to all problems.
2 - Hitting is what counts. Attack Rating needs to be buffed. Try a Blessed Aim Merc and watch your attacks hit and you will see the damage. Fast successful hits and critical strike are much better, in my opinion, than a super max damage bow that will take you a life time, or an eBay auction win, to find the runes or trade for.
3 - You can indeed mow through the pits and the game, with a Strafer in hell, with rock bottom resists. I did it with my Valk and Merc, and lots of running and use of my utility spells like Slow Missile and Decoy.
4 - Witch Wild, upgraded, is pretty powerful. You don't need a Wind Force. You just need raw speed, very high attack rating and you can save points in critical strike and invest elseware. The chance to amp makes it all worth it when you hit.

--- Note on amping. You have to hit to amp. If you're missing, you're not going to trigger it. And the old freezing arrow trick doesn't work for quick-triggering either.

Anyhow, just an update on the issue.
So far - it's smooth sailing with what one would call "poor man" gear.
My coffers are already getting quite full with very nice runes, lots of very attractive 3 and 4 socket elite armors, lots of elite weapons with 3, 4 and 5 sockets, etc. Loving it. Loads of uniques as well.

Good luck with your strafers!

Cheers!

[Omikron8]

max penetrate + 300-400 dex = no AR problems in hell

[AnimeCraze]

Add massive amount of +max/AR charms for even more damage and AR. Dual Ravenfrost also helps.

[YogiRat]

max penetrate + 300-400 dex = no AR problems in hell

Under optimum conditions, that will work. But as MalVeauX said, this is a poorman's build. The Visionary mod on a helm or circ is a great asset if one is poor or untwinked. Take a look (http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot0800gk.jpg) at what my zon is wearing in our HC tourney :xmas30:

[Omikron8]

what i stated works for poor man's equipment as well because......


i am doing that exact thing right now again with my poor-average zon who has practically no dex or AR bonuses from her equipment

with max penetrate and 370 dex she has 6600 AR which gives me ~80% chance to hit most things in hell

sure beats 65%

[Veilside]

what i stated works for poor man's equipment as well because......


i am doing that exact thing right now again with my poor-average zon who has practically no dex or AR bonuses from her equipment

with max penetrate and 370 dex she has 6600 AR which gives me ~80% chance to hit most things in hell

sure beats 65%

putting an eth rune in your weapon helps a lot with that. my shael eth wws non upped wws is killing fine in hell with 7k ar.

[belonker]

A demon limb on your weapon switch will also work pretty well. It has charges of slvl 21 enchant (or maybe 23? Not sure off the top of my head). Put this on real fast and chant yourself and you will gain a massive AR bonus. I'm pretty sure that it isn't too expensive.

[MalVeauX]

Hey guys, after doing more runs, picked up a few goodies, including a shiny new lightsaber and a nature's peace ring or whatever (the slain rest in peace and oak charges ring). Pretty fun stuff for just a few runs.

Anyhow, I've noticed massive increase in speed of runs overall.

388 Dex at lvl 86 is what she has. 1 point in penetrate.
This gives me roughly 2800 AR (as I do not use any other AR/% Equippment).

When I use the Visionary helm (still looking to gamble a circlet... that rare that was posted above is just great! Love that stuff), my AR goes up to 5000+ and I notice I hit everyting.

On top of this, I added my Blessed Aim Merc (lvl 85) and with his aura, my AR jumps very high, over 10k, and I find myself not missing at all.

This very high AR combined with knockback strafe is allowing me to really plunder the pits too. I simply dash forward with my Harmony, and gather a nasty mob, then run back and drop a Decoy. They crowd and I switch to my Lacerator throwing axe (and blocking shield) and with 10k AR, I hit very easily and after 3 or 4 throws, the mob gets amped, where I switch to my bow and strafe away. They go down really quickly.

So at this point, I have 200%+ magic find, roughly 600 life, zero resists except the anya bonuses and a few random bonuses from charms and the like, and I'm still doing totally fine running through the Pits and the Mausoleum. Pretty cool starting with nothing and then getting goodies quickly after wards.

--- Sole problem: Keeping merc alive. He's level 85 with an Eth Kraken shell that has defense boost, and it's 1300 defense, with a cruel lance with leach (shopped) and I'm still tossing around helms. I crafted a decent blood helm for him, but he either isn't leeching nearly enough, or he's just got too low of defense or something, because he gets his butt handed to him by mobs too quickly, even in solo games. His res's are 65% in hell, nearly 1800 life, 3k+ defense and good damage, with 10% leech or so total. But in the pits, he's just a kick toy and goes down quickly. He lasts longer in the mausoleum. My valk on the other hand hardly ever goes down unless she's amped or under conviction, etc.

Any advise on non-uber stuff for Mercs and keeping them alive?

Cheers!

[belonker]

Obedience is a great runeword for a merc that contains awesome offensive and defensive mods, and the highest rune in the recipe is Fal. However, it might be hard to find a good weapon to put it in, eth threshers and cryptic axes can get pretty pricey.

[marcello]

use a reapers on merc, he cast decrep which gives amp on monsters, no need for lacerator, can be purchased for some pgems.

a tip, use angelics combo and use a better helm, more attack rating and a good slot is up.

[Day]

For your Merc - try Shaftstop and Vampire Gaze for the % damage reduction -that's what my mercs use and they can survive hell ancients (most of the time)!

I also second the reapers toll

[BananaPancakes]

i have to say obedience is a fine runeword for your merc as well. huge crushing blow, resists, defense, good damage and of course the chance to cast enchant.

on the other hand, are you overdoing it with a blessed aim merc? you no longer have AR problems right? maybe switch back to might, or even holy freeze. it'll make things easier to hit and slowing enemies helps the merc last in a way.

have fun with your zon