flames pvp shaman guide

[bigfurrybear]

i found this on the bnet forums, and thought it was pretty good:
http://www.sitesled.com/members/claniraq/diablo_ii_lod_111_shaman.txt


was writen by "earthbd" of bnet forusm

[INEEDMENTALHELP]

prepare for a flamewar, this build has some surious enemeys that think its worthless

its already been through this site btw

[bigfurrybear]

prepare for a flamewar, this build has some surious enemeys that think its worthless

its already been through this site btw

i remember seeing a guy named claniraq posting a shaman guide a while ago, but this one isnt by him. its by the guy named "Flames" instead, and hes a bit beter i think

[INEEDMENTALHELP]

flames posts in these forums..... Hes posted his guide here it started a huge flame war.

[Earthday]

Actually no, Clan Iraq is the one that posted his guide before which started the flame war. This guide was finished about a week ago, and I haven't been to these forums since until now.

[Gotcha]

Actually no, Clan Iraq is the one that posted his guide before which started the flame war. This guide was finished about a week ago, and I haven't been to these forums since until now.

Flames, if this is you I have a few questions and sorta quickly broused your guide.

I have been rebuilding a fire druid and have decided to go the bear route instead of pure fire and have a few questions for you if this is you.

1. Is max block with SS a stupid idea against barbs if you use SS (eld) and switch belt to arach & use a 10% FCR/20STR/+like 13 dex ring. You would need to invest about 140ish into dex but could use SS with max block against mainly barbs or is the grief/tele WW barb going to just rip apart the shaman weather he uses block or not. I mean is block just going to prolong the shamans death? I do not think 140ish in life will mean much more then 350 or so life with BO overall but I have not tested this out. Is building the chr around a shield switch for barbs just a stupid idea?

2. I read that you use a faceted shield (probably since you do not use a ravenlore), if so how do you regain the 35% FCR you loose by switching shields since you are always using thundergods which allows you to get to the 156 str for shield as I think I read in your guide?

[Earthday]

To me max block just isn't worth it. The thing is you CAN duel a barb forever and not get hit, which is what I did. The main purpose of this build is that you have completely unavoidable attacks while other builds' attacks are all avoidable in some fashion. And like you said, if you're very lucky all the max block is gonna do is make them have to hit you 3 times instead of 2. And generally even if you DO block an attack, the druid's piss poor blocking speed leaves you a sitting duck. Even if I had the dex to get my max block with a SS, I'd still probably choose spirit, because that extra FCR breakpoint will save your life twice as much as the block will.

As for the faceted shield, it was a real rarity I used that thing, just for the occasional sorbing barb and pally. When I did use it, I just had to sacrafice the FCR breakpoint. It's no biggie, since the only spells it affects are teleport and casting summons. I dont like going down a breakpoint, but its plenty manageable (in fact, Clan Iraq's shaman was always a breakpoint below mine, and he seemed to do fine)

[dkay]

To me max block just isn't worth it. The thing is you CAN duel a barb forever and not get hit, which is what I did. The main purpose of this build is that you have completely unavoidable attacks while other builds' attacks are all avoidable in some fashion. And like you said, if you're very lucky all the max block is gonna do is make them have to hit you 3 times instead of 2. And generally even if you DO block an attack, the druid's piss poor blocking speed leaves you a sitting duck. Even if I had the dex to get my max block with a SS, I'd still probably choose spirit, because that extra FCR breakpoint will save your life twice as much as the block will.

As for the faceted shield, it was a real rarity I used that thing, just for the occasional sorbing barb and pally. When I did use it, I just had to sacrafice the FCR breakpoint. It's no biggie, since the only spells it affects are teleport and casting summons. I dont like going down a breakpoint, but its plenty manageable (in fact, Clan Iraq's shaman was always a breakpoint below mine, and he seemed to do fine)

do you still play east? i have access to a godly barb and hammerdin who would like to duel you on west :O

also during the flame war we forgot to mention how charge lock can seriously kill any char without max block. ive died to charge/smiters with my freinds 7k max dr barb and my own 1.5k life 3k mana light es sorc. :|

[Gotcha]

To me max block just isn't worth it. The thing is you CAN duel a barb forever and not get hit, which is what I did. The main purpose of this build is that you have completely unavoidable attacks while other builds' attacks are all avoidable in some fashion. And like you said, if you're very lucky all the max block is gonna do is make them have to hit you 3 times instead of 2. And generally even if you DO block an attack, the druid's piss poor blocking speed leaves you a sitting duck. Even if I had the dex to get my max block with a SS, I'd still probably choose spirit, because that extra FCR breakpoint will save your life twice as much as the block will.

Thanks for the reply and help, I guess I need to just play this chr a ton and practice with avoiding things rather then the thought of getting hit since you are right the druid has horrible blocking speed, etc. and a good ww block or not will probably kill the druid. Thanks for the help. If I have more questions I will post here since I am sorta starting to love playing this build.

[tmd turka]

Well I have read guides for both a Pure Fire Druid and a Shaman and I am still having a tough time deciding which to make. To be honest all those that flame this build need to explain to me how it is so drastically different from its more accepted counter part. As far as I can tell the only difference is the use of a Bear instead of Armageddon. The build seems to focus on doing more physical damage with the Bear instead of fire(which can be absorbed). I am aware that Armageddon packs a wallop but its random and it cant tank hits for you like a Bear can.

What are you losing by not maxing Armageddon?

[BananaPancakes]

i've read the shaman guide and im confused about skill point placement. everytime i try searching the forums, the page stays blank..i dont know whats up with that.. anyway
earthday says to max molten boulder over geddon because it adds physical damage to volcano, but how about placing your final points into geddon instead of firestorm? they both add 12% damage as a synergy to 1 skill, except that firestorm also adds damage to molten boulder...but that skill is not used often isnt it? "possibly one of the worst pvp skills" right? so what do you guys think? is there a good reason why firestorm is picked instead of geddon? we actually cast geddon

[Earthday]

Firestorm adds damage to Fissure. Geddon adds damage to Volcano.

Getting your fissure damage up there is much more important, because it is your only attack against a lot of builds. Every single build you use volcano against is also susceptable to Fissure and Grizzly. A lot of builds (Charger etc.) are beatable by fissure and fissure only. I think I used Fissure in EVERY duel against EVERY character and type. I used volcano in about 50% of my duels.

The variant you're suggesting would make Sorcs a bit easier, Necros quite a bit easier, and every single other duel a little to a lot harder. Including WWBarbs and Chargers being nearly impossible to deal consistant damage to. It'd completely remove the build's versatility, which is really the main point of it.

[creamofthesoup]

Indeed, I find that I only really use Geddon in pub duels, or the first 30 seconds of a 4 vs 4.

The precasting of geddon will make up half your deaths, if you actually attempt it ;)

So basically, designing the skills I aimed for:

#1- Volcano's Physical
#2- Grizzly
#3- Fissure's Fire
#4- Volcano's Fire
in that order
Since the fire portion of volcano is only really *useful* against bone necros, though yes it would make ES sorcs a tad easier.

With low fissure damage, all pallys/barbs will have a field day with you. You need to fend off pretty much every pally/barb build, meanwhile geddon is frankly useless in 90% of PvP situations. If I have it on, I don't recast it unless my opponent just teled 5 screens away, or everyone else went to town (very common in pubs, eh?)

[BananaPancakes]

oh alright i'll have to take your words for it as i have no experience with fire druids. so basically geddon is just for show and random damage that you shouldnt rely on..i'll be making my fire druid now lol. thanks guys

[Zigot_HD]

Versus a player that has a bit of fire absorb, fussure won't do any good... at least much less than planned. So only volcano can deal some physical dmg. So that could be a long long duel.....

Do you have any tip in that case?

Thx

Z

[Earthday]

If a character like a barb or pally is absorbing, your just gonna have to ignore them. This is the type of build that is meant for good mannered duels and good mannered duels only. You wont be able to wreak havok if people are absorbing you, so just ignore them, and once they die cast some fissures at the town entrance and nk them for payback.

The bad ones you CAN kill with just your bear, and if you can get a barb to WW on the path as a moulten boulder, at the same speed, it does some massive damage, but its unlikely and tough to setup.

[creamofthesoup]

If a character like a barb or pally is absorbing, your just gonna have to ignore them. This is the type of build that is meant for good mannered duels and good mannered duels only. You wont be able to wreak havok if people are absorbing you, so just ignore them, and once they die cast some fissures at the town entrance and nk them for payback.

The bad ones you CAN kill with just your bear, and if you can get a barb to WW on the path as a moulten boulder, at the same speed, it does some massive damage, but its unlikely and tough to setup.


*cough cough cough*

I, unlike flames, don't have much problems BMing ;)

but yarr, a sorbing barb (so that fissure does negative) is pretty much impossible to kill (assuming hes ww/tele- otherwise bear eats him alive)

sorbing chargers arent much of a problem. You can either ignore them, or lamely kill them with volcanos. Expect them to run to town and say "stop teleing, noob".

For barbs/sins, sorb is not a problem unless your fissure does negative damage. For most casters, sorb will not help them at all. They could stick on hotspurs/2x dwarfs/rising sun, and still die to a volcano/bear combo (or a bear/volcano combo, if ur flames >.>)

Thats one of my favorite things about this build though; someone slaps on sorb, and yet you can still defeat them just as easily when they think they are invincible


so yarr, I usually have the upper hand in a BM situation, except on NL where everyone else has a last wish in their stash >.>






I should also note, BM shaman vs BM necro is one of the most hilarious duels there is. 1 fissure can kill so many minions its scary :O

[the boss]

Yo, what's your hotkey for this build?

[creamofthesoup]

f1- fissure
f2- volcano
f3- teleport
f4- grizzly
f5- HOW
f6- oak
f7- cyclone armor
f8- geddon
f9- battle command
f10- battle orders

[Earthday]

I used, IIRC.

F1) Geddon
F2) Boulder (Though I almost always used it with left click)
F3) Oak
F4) HotW
F5) Grizzly
F6) Fissure
F7) Teleport
F8) Volcano
F9) BC
F10) BO

Its all preference, except having teleport in between fissure and volcano is pretty much a must. You gotta switch between those 3 at light speed. Bear being close is another must.

[creamofthesoup]

I suppose that would work well, though I keep tele on f3 on ALL me chars, and same with bo. Definately keep fissure/volcano/tele/grizzly clumped, and your spirit close to it (since recasting is often)

[the boss]

f1- fissure
f2- volcano
f3- teleport
f4- grizzly
f5- HOW
f6- oak
f7- cyclone armor
f8- geddon
f9- battle command
f10- battle orders

Sound's hot, lol anyways you guys think cyclone armor is worth of a point even without its synergy?

[creamofthesoup]

Sound's hot, lol anyways you guys think cyclone armor is worth of a point even without its synergy?
mine does 353 absorb with 1 point and no synergies, which is enough to COMPLETELY stop auradins and aurasorcs, as well as taking the edge off trappers and any element build

[dkay]

mine does 353 absorb with 1 point and no synergies, which is enough to COMPLETELY stop auradins and aurasorcs, as well as taking the edge off trappers and any element build

traps can hit 12k. i highly doubt 353 will will take off the sins edge. same with a 53k lightning from a sorc, or a 20k fireball, or even a 7k foh.

auradins probably ya though. their radius damage is pretty weak, esp since cyclone armor ignores resist.

[Ce Olba]

traps can hit 12k. i highly doubt 353 will will take off the sins edge. same with a 53k lightning from a sorc, or a 20k fireball, or even a 7k foh.

auradins probably ya though. their radius damage is pretty weak, esp since cyclone armor ignores resist.

As cyclone armor ignores resistances, it will do better against fohers and cold sorcs than against anything else, as those 2 builds get their effectiveness from huge -enemy resistances. Also, as cyclone armor ignores resistances, u WILL NOT take the edge off from a elemental build with ONLY 353 absorb. Normally that would be a lot, but with cyclone armor, any elemental attack hits it with zero resistances, thus, even with a 4k FB u end up taking 647 fire dmg. Imagine a 25k FB, first killing your cyclone easily and then doing 5897 dmg. So, unless u have every resistances totally maxed, that 353 is useless. Even with 95 fire resistances, that FB still does 290 dmg.

That 353 is TOTALLY useless, in terms of protecting you, unless u duel on like NM where people do maximum of like 20k dmg.

[-Ferro-]

I honestly dont think you can kill barbs and smite/chargers with just volcano and grizzly. Could be the bad ones, thats it. The point of shaman, as creem says, is you deal both fire and physical damage. If a caster, the chars shaman kills easier, negates your fire damage, you still have many chances to kill him with grizzly, or volcano if they have bad block (I love when blockless chars get locked and die under the "fire mountain" :) )

Back to its weakness, any barb or smite/charger, even hammerdins, with 75% fire reists, 75% blocking, one dwarf , +15k def for hammer and +20k for smite/WW barbs and +4k life (+6k for barbs), can stand still on top of a volcano or fissure taking really low damage. Plus grizzly wont hit them so easy, and never will do 1 hit KO on them for sure. On the other hand, one WW, hammer or smite hit, will remove a huge amount of your life. And they can do this so easy if you teleport on them to make grizzly work.

I thought a lot about this, trying to find how I could combine 2 different sources of damage than can be used at same time vs any char in a sucessfull way. The awnser was pretty clear, and finally made an hybrid fire/wind druid.

My druid is this:

Flame Blower:
clvl 92
-3k volcano
-3k fissure
-3k armageddon (i dont use prefer hurry)
-2k absorb cyclone armor
-2k hurry
-4k tonado
-Max block, 75% all resits, 100%fcr, 66% fhr, 4.4k life (my skilers are 2x and 3x lifers). Vs casters I use either spirit or phoenix (-28%fr).

Is the best druid build I have played for all around so far. Is stronger vs all chars than any other druid. The only one who has advantage over it is a max block wind druid, for obvious reasons.

[LtDrebin]

I honestly dont think you can kill barbs and smite/chargers with just volcano and grizzly. Could be the bad ones, thats it. The point of shaman, as creem says, is you deal both fire and physical damage. If a caster, the chars shaman kills easier, negates your fire damage, you still have many chances to kill him with grizzly, or volcano if they have bad block (I love when blockless chars get locked and die under the "fire mountain" :) )

Back to its weakness, any barb or smite/charger, even hammerdins, with 75% fire reists, 75% blocking, one dwarf , +15k def for hammer and +20k for smite/WW barbs and +4k life (+6k for barbs), can stand still on top of a volcano or fissure taking really low damage. Plus grizzly wont hit them so easy, and never will do 1 hit KO on them for sure. On the other hand, one WW, hammer or smite hit, will remove a huge amount of your life. And they can do this so easy if you teleport on them to make grizzly work.

I thought a lot about this, trying to find how I could combine 2 different sources of damage than can be used at same time vs any char in a sucessfull way. The awnser was pretty clear, and finally made an hybrid fire/wind druid.

My druid is this:

Flame Blower:
clvl 92
-3k volcano
-3k fissure
-3k armageddon (i dont use prefer hurry)
-2k absorb cyclone armor
-2k hurry
-4k tonado
-Max block, 75% all resits, 100%fcr, 66% fhr, 4.4k life (my skilers are 2x and 3x lifers). Vs casters I use either spirit or phoenix (-28%fr).

Is the best druid build I have played for all around so far. Is stronger vs all chars than any other druid. The only one who has advantage over it is a max block wind druid, for obvious reasons.

I've always wanted to try a PvM fire druid, but fire immunes are scary. Going hybrid would be a nice solution, but skill points are too scarce. How many +skills do you have to achieve such nice numbers on all of those skills? Do you have even a single point in the summoning tree? I'm interested in this build for PvM only, but I don't think I have the right gear to have such good damage on all of those skills.