BvC vs BvB

[nightaswz]

What would be the optimum setup for a bvc when dueling another barb? Usually, if the barb is using anything other than nigma, i just toss on my OW belt, gores, and fort and use widow to pk them to death =) yes, its a slow and painful death for them but its rather satisfying for me.
However, if the BvB equips enigma, he has max block, max dr with SS, and the ability to tele/ww me. What would then be the best equip to have at least a change of winning?
Keep in mind that a balance must be made between block %, % dr, and AR. A BvC is not able to have 50% dr and still have max block.

Toss the beast and go for a shield? The following setups seem to be the best. However, i dont know which is better as i have yet to try them both.

Arreats
Grief
Eld SS 35 DR
Fort
Draculs
Dungos 15 DR
Upped Gores
Highlord
2x Raven

OR

CoA 31 DR
Grief
Eld Whistans
Fort
Draculs
Dungos 15 DR
Upped Gores
Highlords
2x Raven

(Hmm without enigma, i dont think a barb can still equip CoA eh?)

OR

both setups except replace the ammy and 2x rings with the angelic ammy + rings for the huge AR. Or maybe angelic ammy + ring + 20 dex raven?

The first setup has max dr but mediocre blocking (mine would be around 45% IIRC)
The second setup would have higher block (would it by max by chance using ptorch panni etc + 2x 20 ravens) but only 46% dr.

If im missing anything, feel free to let me know. Thanks!

[mainaman]

imo its better to have max block and a little less dr than max dr and lower block rate.I would preffer to get hit less than more often.

[RetroStar]

Get a widow and hope for the best. Your def/ar/block can't match up against them. If you're able to beat them with that setup, you can probably beat them with normal bvc vs. melee gear.

[MrSpiX]

BvC barb with block = BvA? Or am I totally wrong here? :S

If I'm wrong, then why have block on a barb that's supposed to be used against casters only?

[RetroStar]

BvC barb with block = BvA? Or am I totally wrong here? :S

If I'm wrong, then why have block on a barb that's supposed to be used against casters only?

In pubs, a BvC can be faced with dueling a BvB also. But even with block you'll still get destroyed by BvBs, so block isn't needed.

[dkay]

bva is a barb with max block that can duel wield whenever he wants.

retro is right. any bvb will murder a bvc unless he slaps on window and plays *** for 10 minutes.

[nightaswz]

but what gear gives me the best chance of winning? With Bvb barbs that do not match me in wealth and/or skill, i still have a good chance to beat them. Also, this gear can be used when i duel another BvC's, which gives me a rather nice advantage over them. Plus, the BvB's have to use an enigma to catch me or otherwise i would widow pk them to death. Then, i put on my fort =)

So this is the gear im thinking atm:

Arreats
Grief
Fort
SS eld
Dungo
Dracs
Upped Gores
2x Raven
HL

This gives me max dr and rather decent blocking percentage. Sure, their defense may be greater but that cant be helped. What do u guys think?

[Halciet]

You'll need the angelic amulet and two copies of the rings for when you go up against BvB, otherwise you'll get rolled thanks to their high defense. So, keep all of that gear, along with the angelic amulet, two of the rings, a demon limb, and a beast berserker axe in the stash. Then you should be good to go regardless of who you fight.

-Hal

[nightaswz]

Well, if i use angelics, my block % will suffer quite a lot. It gives me +40 dex :) Is the exchange worth it?

Also, the gear i listed above seems to be the only viable option. I would rather ditch the ss if i cant have decent blocking. However, i would not be able to equip the fort then because i need the enigma to be able to wear CoA and have max dr.

Note - I dont need the angelic when i duel other BvC's

[RetroStar]

Well, if i use angelics, my block % will suffer quite a lot. It gives me +40 dex :) Is the exchange worth it?

Also, the gear i listed above seems to be the only viable option. I would rather ditch the ss if i cant have decent blocking. However, i would not be able to equip the fort then because i need the enigma to be able to wear CoA and have max dr.

Note - I dont need the angelic when i duel other BvC's

Ofcourse you don't need angelics vs. BvCs. Just look at the defense difference.

I find BvC vs. BvB pretty pointless, first off, your AR should be lower than theirs, defense will be lower than theirs and block will be lower than theirs.

So the scenario will be
1) BvB will hit you most of the time
2) You will rarely hit the Bvb
3) When you do hit the BvB, your life will be half gone already. -.-

Only viable solution I see is just widow them which is stupid or make yourself a BvB. This ofcourse takes into consideration of top BvB vs. top BvC. BvC CAN only really really crap BvBs, but rarely.

[Halciet]

If you wanted to stand a chance in BvB, you'd have to use angelics, meaning you wouldn't be able to count the Ravenfrost dex toward your dex requirements. You'd need to invest that extra 20-40 points.

Yes, angelics are that important for BvB.

-Hal

[nightaswz]

So even if i have no chance vs a BvB, the gear that i listed will still give me an increased advantage over any BvC that i meet correct?

[mainaman]

well i have bvc barb and when i duel another bvc barb i use 2 angelic rings+angelic amulet...never mind BvC barbs don't use shield usually they still have pretty high def,meaning you need decent ar to hit them, so basically angelic rings +amu is a must,whithout them i doubt you will win against a good BvC

[RetroStar]

well i have bvc barb and when i duel another bvc barb i use 2 angelic rings+angelic amulet...never mind BvC barbs don't use shield usually they still have pretty high def,meaning you need decent ar to hit them, so basically angelic rings +amu is a must,whithout them i doubt you will win against a good BvC

My BvC only has 12k def. :(

[mainaman]

mine has 16k and i am still maxing iron skin as i have maxed all other skills i need..

[nightaswz]

maxing iron skin? lol, what is ur skill allocation? u should only have enough at the end to place a few into shout. Perhaps ur BvA, and not BvC?

[mastermind]

In pubs, a BvC can be faced with dueling a BvB also. But even with block you'll still get destroyed by BvBs, so block isn't needed.

A decent BvA can hold his own with block and adequate change out gear but against a Pro BVB barb, not no avarage pub barb but a good BvB barb a BvA will lose with block.

But a BvC does not need max block that much as u rely on ur life size and max dr for major tanking

Edit..

Lol u never max iron skin my last points are going towards maxing my shout as that more benificall than iron skin.

Dont feel bad Retrostar my BvC hit about 10.5k defence and about 11k with pre buff :)

Also what ur stats layout?

[nightaswz]

this is going way beyond what i wanted. Yes, i know i will lose to pro bvb and bva barbs with my bvc. That is besides the point. Most duelers on bnet are no way near good anyways.
What i am trying to ask is will a particular setup benefit me more than using the regular dual wield? Would using a shield and ditching the beast give me an advantage against another bvc?
Maybe i should change the topic into BvC vs BvC?

[Neurofuzzy]

If a BvC wants to defeat a BvB (or any other mellee) and you dont care to be called BM, than use a doom.

[richo]

thats gonna help you think :xmas9:

bvb not wears any cannot be frozen stuff as it is only good for the bvb and if he has a eni in stash he just tele ww on you and youre dead cause if you use doom and botd dual wield the bvb gets slow so he has more chance to hit you :xmas23:

[Ce Olba]

thats gonna help you think :xmas9:

bvb not wears any cannot be frozen stuff as it is only good for the bvb and if he has a eni in stash he just tele ww on you and youre dead cause if you use doom and botd dual wield the bvb gets slow so he has more chance to hit you :xmas23:

Incorrect. The slowing from doom DOES NOT give u more % to hit, it only keeps u in the range to hit the other guy longer.

[cassurai]

A BvC will never be able to beat a good BvB because of defense and AR problems.

A good BvB with 21k AR, 32k defense, 5k Life, Max Block, Max DR, and much more damage than you with Grief/Fort, so unless you keep a completely different set of charms and equipment in your limited stash, you aren't going to win.

[mainaman]

Lol you never max iron skin my last points are going towards maxing my shout as that more benificall than iron skin.

Dont feel bad Retrostar my BvC hit about 10.5k defence and about 11k with pre buff :)

Also what ur stats layout?

hm ok i have maxed mastery,ww,battleorders,shout,1 pt on prequsites,
i just dont see whats wrong with more def

[mastermind]

If a BvC wants to defeat a BvB (or any other mellee) and you dont care to be called BM, than use a doom.

doom is a bad idea infact it helps any type of whirlwind character as when it slows, the char will land more hits per whirlwind due to the holy freeze and the fact it will affect the movement speed of the Whirlwind keeping the target longer in the hitting range.

if u want to lose to any barb or even a Whirlwind sin stick a doom on.

u are better off keeping ur orignal standard combo, grief + beast or botd + beast

and the can not be frozen mod has no affect on HOLY FREEZE only normal cold dmg.

[nightaswz]

A BvC will never be able to beat a good BvB because of defense and AR problems.

A good BvB with 21k AR, 32k defense, 5k Life, Max Block, Max DR, and much more damage than you with Grief/Fort, so unless you keep a completely different set of charms and equipment in your limited stash, you aren't going to win.

That has already been established and i thank u for repeating what everyone else has said :)

Ok so a BvC vs a BvB = no chance
how about a BvC vs a BvC (yes im trying to steer the direction of the discussion)?
Just stick to the regular dual wield and hope that u have the better gear? Or equip a shield and see if ~45 blocking will help u out?
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, just rate which build is better for a BvC when dueling another BvC

OPTION 1:
31 DR CoA
Griefz
Beastz
8 DR Enigma
15 DR dungo
Dracs
Upped Gores
Highlords
2x ravens

54 DR

OR

OPTION 2:
40/15 Arreats
Griefz
35 DR Eld SS (~45 blocking)
Fortitude
15 DR dungo
Dracs
Upped Gores
Highlords
2x ravens

50 DR

[morotsjos]

That has already been established and i thank u for repeating what everyone else has said :)

Ok so a BvC vs a BvB = no chance
how about a BvC vs a BvC (yes im trying to steer the direction of the discussion)?
Just stick to the regular dual wield and hope that u have the better gear? Or equip a shield and see if ~45 blocking will help u out?
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, just rate which build is better for a BvC when dueling another BvC

OPTION 1:
31 DR CoA
Griefz
Beastz
8 DR Enigma
15 DR dungo
Dracs
Upped Gores
Highlords
2x ravens

54 DR

OR

OPTION 2:
40/15 Arreats
Griefz
35 DR Eld SS (~45 blocking)
Fortitude
15 DR dungo
Dracs
Upped Gores
Highlords
2x ravens

50 DR
Try it out yourself! Seriously, it's pretty impossible to know without trying in practice.

[mainaman]

That has already been established and i thank u for repeating what everyone else has said :)

Ok so a BvC vs a BvB = no chance
how about a BvC vs a BvC (yes im trying to steer the direction of the discussion)?
Just stick to the regular dual wield and hope that u have the better gear? Or equip a shield and see if ~45 blocking will help u out?
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, just rate which build is better for a BvC when dueling another BvC

OPTION 1:
31 DR CoA
Griefz
Beastz
8 DR Enigma
15 DR dungo
Dracs
Upped Gores
Highlords
2x ravens

54 DR

OR

OPTION 2:
40/15 Arreats
Griefz
35 DR Eld SS (~45 blocking)
Fortitude
15 DR dungo
Dracs
Upped Gores
Highlords
2x ravens

50 DR


the set up you need to use is

arreat
dungo
enigma
grief+beast or bot+beast
if you need more ow +deadly strike use gores; otherwise war travelers
2 angelic rings+angelic amulet
enigma shoul be high def (best is sup dusk or archon plate)-gives you a lot of str bonus and the saved points can go to vita.Also enigma has 8%dr so with dungo you will get decent 33%dr,
gloves---dracks
my barb currently has 5.4k life and i dueled my friends babrb he has 6k life and 3k more ar than me but the same gear (well he has better charms than ido) and we ended up in a tie, so really this is best set up the res is skill..

[Ce Olba]

if you need more ow +deadly strike use gores; otherwise war travelers

enigma shoul be high def (best is sup dusk or archon plate)-gives you a lot of str bonus and the saved points can go to vita.Also enigma has 8%dr so with dungo you will get decent 33%dr,


Why the hell would u use wartravs? Since u WILL NOT have 100% ow or ds, why shouldn't u use gores?
Very few BvC's have the need for 105 str BEFORE enigma, so i would rather have something with decent def, decent dur, and decent str req (scarab, dusk, wyrmhide). Myself i use Wyrmhide on my BvC.

[morotsjos]

the set up you need to use is

arreat
dungo
enigma
grief+beast or bot+beast
if you need more ow +deadly strike use gores; otherwise war travelers
2 angelic rings+angelic amulet
enigma shoul be high def (best is sup dusk or archon plate)-gives you a lot of str bonus and the saved points can go to vita.Also enigma has 8%dr so with dungo you will get decent 33%dr,
gloves---dracks
my barb currently has 5.4k life and i dueled my friends babrb he has 6k life and 3k more ar than me but the same gear (well he has better charms than ido) and we ended up in a tie, so really this is best set up the res is skill..
No it isn't. You need more dr and angelics are pretty useless vs most bvcs. War travelers suck compared to gores, dont even consider using them.

[mastermind]

the best boots to use are either nice crafted res boots with possibly dex or other usefull mods or gores or even a pair of dupped boots.

hmm it depends on what type of BVC u decide cuz i went for a pure vita approach heres my set up

Mage plate enigma
angelics ring & amu combo
2 x ravens
botd + beast (looking for a Grief NL)
2x Doom
gores
berberCoA
Arreat 40 9 str
verdungos

[Ce Olba]

the best boots to use are either nice crafted res boots with possibly dex or other usefull mods or gores or even a pair of dupped boots.

hmm it depends on what type of BVC u decide cuz i went for a pure vita approach heres my set up

Mage plate enigma
angelics ring & amu combo
2 x ravens
botd + beast (looking for a Grief NL)
2x Doom
gores
berberCoA
Arreat 40 9 str
verdungos
I think u should rather get a Grief Ba than 2x Dooms, since 1 will do well enough, if u use it with your grief. But then again, Botd can be better in some situations, such as getting max blocking with whitstan and ravens. My barb would have max blocking if he had Botd Ba, but i just cannot ditch my grief, since the dmg increase is SO DAMN LOVELY. It has really helped me dealing with chars i used to have trouble with (smiters, hammerdins( i lose to a lot of these still, due to the fact that i use widowmaker, but i suck in using one) some ele druids). But i do miss the +30 stats on Botd, and the visible dmg.

Also, that 9str on the jewel on arreat is pretty useless in terms of more dmg. Dex would be better, if u use Widowmaker, or 15 ias. I have a Shael, because i cannot afford a ed/dex jewel, or a ed/ias, and a pruby is pretty useless without the prebuffs i used to have (lvl 51 prebuffed bo). Nowdays i only prebuff with 5 bo deli and a 3wc amu.

Personally i was wondering, what to socket in my Wc swords? one of them got 2 sockets, other 1. I've seen ppl use Amns, but that makes no sense to me. Atm i have Fals.

I was thinking of using the bear on Beast and a Might Merc to get some minion stacking for my barb, just in case i run into some boners. But i think that will just be waste of time, since the bear will die in like 1 hit no matter what i could do. And the merc too, but at least i could bo him.

Also, i frequently duel my mates BvC. He has more wealth than i do, gearwise and charmwise. He got full inv of 20 life scs, coa berber, like +36x dmg grief ba. While i have also inv full of vita scs (16-20 life), no coa berber, and a grief ba 34/341. Yet i beat him constantly, because i have more def and he uses teleport in the duels, messing him up totally, as he teles to my whirls a lot.

[mastermind]

nah doom on switch is good cuz u can use for bo and plus it is good against windys 2 pulses of the aura will kill any summoned creature i.e wolves and oak. plus i dont use a Widowmaker because;

a. i cant get hold of 1
b. i dont want to use any stat points in dex
c. i do well against hammerdins without it anyway

Also the 40 9str jewel is equvelent to 49 ed so it not entirely useless for my purpose, if i used widow then i would go for another arreat which i have on mule with a 38 ed 15 ias jewel

i carry prebuff equipment but i dont use it often i.e the barb deli + bk rings + arch and 3 bo amu

[RetroStar]

There are so many questions asked I dunno what to answer so I'll just say random stuff.

vs. another BvC I have the following equip

Ber/Ber CoA
Fort Archon/Duress Archon
Grief BA
Beast BA
Verdungo
Dracs
Gore/Stat boot (If I need to wear Fort)
Highlord
Ravens x2
Widowmaker on switch

I just play defensive and use widow on the opponent. Forces them to play offensive on me. So I don't have to chase them with ww, which is prone to mistakes in a WW/WW duel.

[mainaman]

Why the hell would u use wartravs? Since u WILL NOT have 100% ow or ds, why shouldn't u use gores?
Very few BvC's have the need for 105 str BEFORE enigma, so i would rather have something with decent def, decent dur, and decent str req (scarab, dusk, wyrmhide). Myself i use Wyrmhide on my BvC.

you are right i forgot to say gores are really nice boots ,i use war travs against pure casters they give vita+str bonus as well as +dmg bonus,I am thinking of switching to trecks as their def/vita/str bonuses are better than war travs and they have nice 20% fhr,but yes against another barb gores is the best

[Ce Olba]

you are right i forgot to say gores are really nice boots ,i use war travs against pure casters they give vita+str bonus as well as +dmg bonus,I am thinking of switching to trecks as their def/vita/str bonuses are better than war travs and they have nice 20% fhr,but yes against another barb gores is the best

the str and the vita are unnecessary, since that it only gives u 4 more life per vita point, un-boable, thus it's useless. Use gores all time, the OW is godly. If u need fhr, get some scs or shael your arreat. def is useless versus casters, vita and str are useless since the bonuses are minimal.

[mainaman]

the str and the vita are unnecessary, since that it only gives u 4 more life per vita point, un-boable, thus it's useless. Use gores all time, the OW is godly. If u need fhr, get some scs or shael your arreat. def is useless versus casters, vita and str are useless since the bonuses are minimal.

i haven't tested those etrecks yet and i would agree with you since you have much more experience than me..also i forgot to say that when duelin my friend's barb he was using travs while i had to put on gores which gave me good advantage (he has about 800 more life than me) over him and we anded up in a tie out of 6 duels.
Somebody above said angelics are useless against barb ,well i just dont see how one can win against another barb withought decent ar (assuming that the other barb has decent ar)?

[mastermind]

i haven't tested those etrecks yet and i would agree with you since you have much more experience than me..also i forgot to say that when duelin my friend's barb he was using travs while i had to put on gores which gave me good advantage (he has about 800 more life than me) over him and we anded up in a tie out of 6 duels.
Somebody above said angelics are useless against barb ,well i just dont see how one can win against another barb withought decent ar (assuming that the other barb has decent ar)?

it all depends what type of barb ur fighting cuz most of the time i just use 2x ravens but against a BvB or a BvC i do stick on angelics or u can go for 2 ravens + highlords amu

but in general a BvC does ont have a high defence but a BvB has a much higher defence.

and boots like travs or treks are a bad choice of boots gores are the best boots to use

[RetroStar]

the str and the vita are unnecessary, since that it only gives u 4 more life per vita point, un-boable, thus it's useless. Use gores all time, the OW is godly. If u need fhr, get some scs or shael your arreat. def is useless versus casters, vita and str are useless since the bonuses are minimal.

20fhr = 4 fhr scs

4 fhr sc = 4 lifer sc = 80life.

fhr is a great way to waste inventory space. i'll stick with fhr/stat/resist boots so i can wear duress/fort. (Edit: Assuming we're still talking about a BvC here and not a BvB)

[morotsjos]

20fhr = 4 fhr scs

4 fhr sc = 4 lifer sc = 80life.

fhr is a great way to waste inventory space. i'll stick with fhr/stat/resist boots so i can wear duress/fort. (Edit: Assuming we're still talking about a BvC here and not a BvB)
And then you are left with 30% fhr whenever you want to use gores (i.e. vs windies/hammers/trappers/NECS/smiters/wwsins/all melee/sorcs/most other chars)...

[Ce Olba]

And then you are left with 30% fhr whenever you want to use gores (i.e. vs windies/hammers/trappers/NECS/smiters/wwsins/all melee/sorcs/most other chars)...

This is just why i shaeled my arreat. Now i can use any boots or belt or any other thing, and i will always have 48 fhr. Even though, i still have those 5% fhr scs u gave me, i keep them in my inv. But damn, even with all the possible fhr i still have only 70% :(

[RetroStar]

Actually I only use gores vs. hdins, necros and ww babas. Others I stick with my stat/fhr/resist boot which works better than gores imo.

[morotsjos]

Actually I only use gores vs. hdins, necros and ww babas. Others I stick with my stat/fhr/resist boot which works better than gores imo.
The only time you shouldn't use gores is vs fb-sorcs (unless you use nokozan) and when you need to stack res vs foh/coldsorcs. 30% fhr sounds low vs necs... =/

[RetroStar]

If i need stacking I just throw on an ort kiras. ~.~

Only stacking that I really need is vs. fohers. Sorcs arn't hard.

[morotsjos]

If i need stacking I just throw on an ort kiras. ~.~

Only stacking that I really need is vs. fohers. Sorcs arn't hard.
Then why not use gores as default instead? ^^

[RetroStar]

Then why not use gores as default instead? ^^

Cause I need to wear my CoA @.@

[morotsjos]

Cause I need to wear my CoA @.@
HAHA coa sux ^^

Seriously, why not add 19 pts in str? If you can afford those boots you should be able to afford good enough gear to be able to waste 19 statpoints?

[blobswannabe]

just use any non barb char to own bvbers.

[cassurai]

just use any non barb char to own bvbers.

And then the BvB-er will bring in his counter (eg bvc) to own your non barb char. And it goes on forever....

[RetroStar]

HAHA coa sux ^^

Seriously, why not add 19 pts in str? If you can afford those boots you should be able to afford good enough gear to be able to waste 19 statpoints?

It's all psycological. It seems like a waste. Though I really like my gspurs, I have up'd gores in stash which I never use. (up'd cause I don't have non up'd perfect @.@)

[blobswannabe]

And then the BvB-er will bring in his counter (eg bvc) to own your non barb char. And it goes on forever....

that never happened to me i just owned them until they gave up.