View Full Version : Widowmaker for BvB
WaRRioR.21
10-12-2005, 03:05
When I am going against other Melee Chars, is Widowmaker necessary? Becuase I have to pump 20 more into strength to use CoA so it is equipped when I am using Widowmaker, becuase I lose the strength bonuses from Grief/SS or Grief/Beast.
And on another note... is CoA really necessary? Its for the DR right? Well when im dueling Meleers im using Stormshield and Verdungos... which adds up to 50% which is cap right? Couldn't Arreats do a better job?
well widowmaker is mostly used on bvc type barb....
in bvb max block is just a must without it youre no chance vs those high def/max block/raw dmg bvb's...
as i see on what you mentioned about stuff youre a bvc type barb. coa is useles in bvb duels as you wear verdungo + storm (15 + 35 = 50%) witch gives you easy max dmg reduce.
furthermore i doubt you get even a chance to use widowmaker vs barb as if they use eni they just tele ww while you holding widdow maker and youre then youre realy toast....
widow maker is very useful vs casters but not vs a barb imo
mastermind
10-12-2005, 10:43
btw u never duel wield in bvb fights cuz ur at a disadvantage without max block and wil never stand any chance on a build with high def and max block.
also in that setup (assuming ur a BvB) u dont need a coa cuz u get max dr from just wearing ur storm shield and verdungos, perfect dr ones (15%dr) y arreat is much better in this case.
you should only use ur coa when duelw wielding against chars like a smiter or windy druid etc
WaRRioR.21
10-12-2005, 18:22
Well for future refrence I am BvA... but yea.
1. So why use CoA when im fighting Windys? Cause the DR doesn't work against Casters does it?
2. When I am going up against another Barb that is using Enigma, should I use it to? Or just run around with my Fortitude?
3. Widowmaker is used against Casters right? But shouldnt you use Enigma against Casters, and that would make Widowmaker useless without the 300ed from Fortitude? Or do you just use Fortitude against those Casters that make you come to them? (IE: Hammerdins)
mastermind
10-12-2005, 18:37
A windy druid is an exception as the tornado does physical dmg so u will need dr
3. The Widowmaker by itself is unlikely to cause any significant amount of damage, it's the OW it can apply that helps.
WaRRioR.21
10-12-2005, 19:11
Ok, i never knew Tornado does Physical. Is there a place I can go to see what every Skill does?
And also, kind of off-topic. Are Dooms good against Casters, and Chars that try to keep there distance, like Bowazons? Becuase i watched that Barb Fights on Video, and the guy was using 2x Dooms, but ive heard that Dooms are considered cheap.
And also, since a Tornado does Physical Damage, can I block it?
ThePanzyLord
10-12-2005, 21:45
go to the arreat summit, then on the side click on skills
click on the skill style u want (example:martial arts, traps, combat skillz etc. etc.)
itll come up to a page with all the skills and their stats up to lvl 20
i sorta find it funny ppl no about this website and not blizzard's oun website but weva :D
Omikron8
11-12-2005, 01:03
a bvb using enigma?
you won't even need widowmaker against him because his defense will be much lower than yours if you use fort or stone or duress
a bvb using enigma?
you won't even need widowmaker against him because his defense will be much lower than yours if you use fort or stone or duress
Hmm... Defence so important??? In my duel with barbs, my pala have defence 60K. But barb hit me however... (with 15K AR and dual weapon).
Omikron8
11-12-2005, 06:08
Yes i know defense suffers diminshing returns like many other character attributes but in bvb even a small difference in chance to hit makes a big difference. Also who teleports in bvb?
WaRRioR.21
11-12-2005, 06:42
Well my old barb did just becuase the only armor he had was Enigma... so yea.
Omikron8
11-12-2005, 07:01
well anything is possible in pub duels
like sorcs owning with tal's set on
or barb with ik set doing almost 6k dmg :D
but since the new rw (forti, grief)
most pple in bvb use forti + grief combination as forti gives hell of a dmg/def/life and some resist....
grief does do better dmg then botd and has a lubly 20% ds and venom on it :)
but widowmaker can be useful for a bvc not for a bvb as they just block it and ww to ya with ww-bug or w/e.
defense is very important in bvb fights i did read a strategy on a other forum about a barb with 60k and still decent dmg/life dunno if to believe this though
(dont even consider posting some weird comment on this jordy as you always do....)
gear: (not my build just stating what he uses)
eth upped areats
eth stone sacred
storm (perf def)
perf def steelrends
Bb
perf upped gores
angel set
grief
charms:
37* 20/30 (life/def)
torch
anni
and he said that almost none barb hits ya not enough to get killed before he kills ya :D
mastermind
11-12-2005, 12:40
Hmm... Defence so important??? In my duel with barbs, my pala have defence 60K. But barb hit me however... (with 15K AR and dual weapon).
y cuz its due to the superior mechanics of ww as it is a moving attack which has alot of hit checks depending on weither u hit the last ww bp which most ppl do
Personally i think if the other barb is way superior in skill and equipment, and general knowledge of things, u should grab a widowmaker and your forti/duress and spam ga like hell. Once i dueled my mate's pretty crappy BvB with my BvC, using enigma and widowmaker, and it took like 10 minutes to kill him :p
mastermind
11-12-2005, 12:46
btw wots the spec of that bb (bugged belt)?
y if he is using a bugged stone they can reach about 4k defence on the armour
and y u can block tornado with shield.
dunno exact details on bb only know that it has 20% dmg reduce and 1 skill...
eth stone can get 5k defat least
morotsjos
12-12-2005, 14:15
and y u can block tornado with shield.
No you _cant_.
mastermind
12-12-2005, 18:03
No you _cant_.
i swear u can cuz ive been in fights with windys where i have used my shield and the block was activate, i saw the barb go into block motion and i never took dmg.
And yes there was no minnions like a wolf or bear or something
i swear u can cuz ive been in fights with windys where i have used my shield and the block was activate, i saw the barb go into block motion and i never took dmg.
And yes there was no minnions like a wolf or bear or something
Yes, tornado can be blocked with a shield.
morotsjos
12-12-2005, 20:56
i swear u can cuz ive been in fights with windys where i have used my shield and the block was activate, i saw the barb go into block motion and i never took dmg.
And yes there was no minnions like a wolf or bear or something
What you saw doesn't really matter since it can be due to lag/desynch/imagination/whatever. Tornados cant be blocked period. Just get a windy to stand next to you and shoot 5 tornados, ten times with block and ten times without. Wont be any significant difference on average.
morotsjos
12-12-2005, 20:57
Yes, tornado can be blocked with a shield.
N O I T C A N T.
mastermind
12-12-2005, 23:49
What you saw doesn't really matter since it can be due to lag/desynch/imagination/whatever. Tornados cant be blocked period. Just get a windy to stand next to you and shoot 5 tornados, ten times with block and ten times without. Wont be any significant difference on average.
seriously it can be blocked i seen it
morotsjos
13-12-2005, 10:33
seriously it can be blocked i seen it
Sigh. It doesn't matter what you've seen. No offense but you're still learning here. Learn from me ^^
Just make a thread in the pvp-forum and ask if you dont trust me...
Sigh. It doesn't matter what you've seen. No offense but you're still learning here. Learn from me ^^
Just make a thread in the pvp-forum and ask if you dont trust me...
On this i would say, that no, they cannot be blocked, and how would it help anywayz? U would lose 1 weapon, and u could easily be thrown into block lock (fast casting+chance to hit more than once on tornado), which would be insta death. And also, so what even if it COULD be blocked? still would be useless, since most characters go pure vita anywayz, except for sorcs and melee'ers and a few casters (hammerdin, foher).
Sigh. It doesn't matter what you've seen. No offense but you're still learning here. Learn from me ^^
Just make a thread in the pvp-forum and ask if you dont trust me...
I always have really test for all.
I already have really test for tornado (in open battlenet). Results:
1. Very often 1 tornado does 2 hit (piersing) on stand char. So, totally damage for tornado usially ~ 1000 (with dr max).
2. Very rare tornado is blocking (!). Have sound of block and char not have damage... It is very rare, but it is really.
I think, that chance of block don't important in this case.
I tested it nearly 5 mouths ago in open battlenet on pala.
morotsjos
13-12-2005, 11:52
I always have really test for all.
I already have really test for tornado (in open battlenet). Results:
1. Very often 1 tornado does 2 hit (piersing) on stand char. So, totally damage for tornado usially ~ 1000 (with dr max).
2. Very rare tornado is blocking (!). Have sound of block and char not have damage... It is very rare, but it is really.
I think, that chance of block don't important in this case.
I tested it nearly 5 mouths ago in open battlenet on pala.
Thing is, that block sounds/animation and no damage can be due to glitches/lag/desynch/whatever. It proves nothing.
If tornados are blockable 75% block would mean 75% less damage over time. This is not the case. Block either works or it doesn't. Vs tornado it doesn't.
Thing is, that block sounds/animation and no damage can be due to glitches/lag/desynch/whatever. It proves nothing.
If tornados are blockable 75% block would mean 75% less damage over time. This is not the case. Block either works or it doesn't. Vs tornado it doesn't.
No no. I test this long time, and i'm sure - blocking very rare exist. Possibly, this is simply bug, for example, bug with holy shield... or other cause... But blocking really exist nearly 1/(8-10)...
I does this test in openbattle - ping in openbattle is very very good. Openbattle no have lags. No have desynch (i'm staying)... I shoot tornado rare, with delay between shooting...
Yoy may see it in your test.
No no. I test this long time, and i'm sure - blocking very rare exist. Possibly, this is simply bug, for example, bug with holy shield... or other cause... But blocking really exist nearly 1/(8-10)...
I does this test in openbattle - ping in openbattle is very very good. Openbattle no have lags. No have desynch (i'm staying)... I shoot tornado rare, with delay between shooting...
Yoy may see it in your test.
DO NOT come talking about tests on Open Battle.net, since u might have mistaken something. Maybe u had some hacked gear, or charms, who knows? Test this on closed battle.net and then come tell us.
morotsjos
13-12-2005, 14:09
DO NOT come talking about tests on Open Battle.net, since u might have mistaken something. Maybe u had some hacked gear, or charms, who knows? Test this on closed battle.net and then come tell us.
ZZZZZzzzz....
Lets test this now.
I have a druid on closed.
I need someone with maxblock.
Post account. Thanks.
DO NOT come talking about tests on Open Battle.net, since u might have mistaken something. Maybe u had some hacked gear, or charms, who knows? Test this on closed battle.net and then come tell us.
Ok. Today i will test again in closed battle.net with my druid, pala and barb. And i say about my results. But i have too much ping in battle.net and have often lags... But i will try.
ZZZZZzzzz....
Lets test this now.
I have a druid on closed.
I need someone with maxblock.
Post account. Thanks.
My akk: Imperor_III. Let's test together.
Will ready through 2 hours
mastermind
13-12-2005, 15:36
sry double post
mastermind
13-12-2005, 15:36
Sigh. It doesn't matter what you've seen. No offense but you're still learning here. Learn from me ^^
Just make a thread in the pvp-forum and ask if you dont trust me...
no offence taken man ^^
y i know im still a newbie and got alot of stuff to learn but i have seen a tornado being blocked i.e when i was using a shield vs a Windy, dont ask me why i had the shield, i.e no max dr no coa and basically its cost me a weapon to use the shield.
It is dibatable it could be server lagg or some kinda glitch but i saw my BvA barb go into block animation and i heard the sound of block and did not take dmg
I already tested this problem now.
So. Pala really blocking tornado of druid. And blocking often.
But, pala blocking only 1 from 2 hit of 1 tornado (piersing). Possible, blocking second hit...
Without shield, pala have 2 hit from 1 tornado ALWAISE. With shield, pala have 1 or 2 hit from 1 tornado nearly ~ 50/50.
p.s. in my test pala stand on place.
i connected now and ready repeate the test
lol, why test it on open battle.net? it lags like hell unless ur the host of the game.
tornado cant be blocked by shield, only by wep block skill.
o btw, if u use widow maker in bvb, u will own all of those bvber without enigma.
morotsjos
13-12-2005, 21:26
lol, why test it on open battle.net? it lags like hell unless ur the host of the game.
tornado cant be blocked by shield, only by wep block skill.
o btw, if u use widow maker in bvb, u will own all of those bvber without enigma.
Me and Imperor just ran some tests and I admit I was wrong.
There is some sort of blocking involved. From what we could see the first tornado-hit always hit. The second hit (tornados usually hit twice/pass, at least if you tele on top of the person and spam as I did) seemed to be blockable though. I have no clue of why, but fact remains; with 75% block Imperor could tank ~30% more tornados before he died. Without shield there was more or less always two hits/tornado, but with 75% block there was often only one. We tested vs both barb and pala, same results.
Conclusion: RTB HALP!!!!
mastermind
13-12-2005, 22:30
i dont want to add anymore confusion but i think a warcry as well is able to be blocked.
morotsjos
13-12-2005, 23:36
i dont want to add anymore confusion but i think a warcry as well is able to be blocked.
Yes warcry is blockable, always has been.
Tornado is just... pfft strange.
Add another bug to the list huh :).
Add another bug to the list huh :).
Why bug? Possible, it is normally... - first hit alwayse and second hit blocking... May be it's all right?
morotsjos
14-12-2005, 13:13
Why bug? Possible, it is normally... - first hit alwayse and second hit blocking... May be it's all right?
Hum. I doubt blizzard made it this way intentionally, but now it's there and we have to live with it. Personally I dont complain since that means my hammerdin will block some tornados ;D
Hum. I doubt blizzard made it this way intentionally, but now it's there and we have to live with it. Personally I dont complain since that means my hammerdin will block some tornados ;D
My smiter too ;)
My smiter too ;)
That made me laugh. A good smiter will use enigma and namelock tele the druid and 1-3 smite kill him. And don't come claiming how charge is better because it desynchs, if your ping sucks, u really need NOT to desynch, since sometimes this will get u ezpk'ed.
morotsjos
14-12-2005, 14:59
That made me laugh. A good smiter will use enigma and namelock tele the druid and 1-3 smite kill him. And don't come claiming how charge is better because it desynchs, if your ping sucks, u really need NOT to desynch, since sometimes this will get u ezpk'ed.
What does this have to do with blocking tornados? ^^
Tele/smite is a safe way to die vs competent druids btw. To stand any chance at all the smiter must be able to desynch very very well. And lag helps desynch =)
Druids with doom, 99% fcr/fhr, 50% dr and 6-7k life are damn hard for any smiter if they know how to play.
That made me laugh. A good smiter will use enigma and namelock tele the druid and 1-3 smite kill him. And don't come claiming how charge is better because it desynchs, if your ping sucks, u really need NOT to desynch, since sometimes this will get u ezpk'ed.
Ce Olba, don't say nonsense plz! I'm sure, you are never dueling smiter vs winddruid! 1-3 smite kill druid????? ;) You trying tele/smite really??? :) You trying namelock tele on druid with 5 wolves??? ;) You trying namelock tele on druid with 5 wolves if you have bad ping???
Your words is :lol:
Ce Olba, don't say nonsense plz! I'm sure, you are never dueling smiter vs winddruid! 1-3 smite kill druid????? ;) You trying tele/smite really??? :) You trying namelock tele on druid with 5 wolves??? ;) You trying namelock tele on druid with 5 wolves if you have bad ping???
Your words is :lol:
Well, i haven't played my smiter in ages, back when i did, a simple tele on top of the druid meant dead druid. Maybe that was because grief was new back then?
Well, i haven't played my smiter in ages, back when i did, a simple tele on top of the druid meant dead druid. Maybe that was because grief was new back then?
do u know how hard for a smiter to catch a windy? Without desynch, ur smiter will get owned.
he cant simply just use minion stacking if u charge straight at him.
Well, i haven't played my smiter in ages, back when i did, a simple tele on top of the druid meant dead druid. Maybe that was because grief was new back then?
do u know how hard for a smiter to catch a windy? Without desynch, ur smiter will get owned.
he can simply just use minion stacking if u charge straight at him.
Well, i haven't played my smiter in ages, back when i did, a simple tele on top of the druid meant dead druid. Maybe that was because grief was new back then?
do u know how hard for a smiter to catch a windy? Without desynch, ur smiter will get owned.
he can simply just use minion stacking if u charge straight at him.
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