Untwinked ES sorc in HARDcore? possible?

[CoriolisEffect]

my level 22 fireball sorc died recently in a cow game cause i wasnt paying attention and BOOM enchanted charged bolt shooting cow kills me.

i was just wondering if an ES build was viable, knowing that i wouldnt be able to go all out fireskills after mxing telekenisis and ES, i would have to use the cold tree to get a skill thats good for killing

this would be called maybe... ES Chantress Orber, i guess

where you would max orb, es, tele, and warmth (for good mana regen after you get hit by something)

8-10 in CM and the rest in enchant.

theres probbably other options, but mainly i wanna know if ES sorcies are a waste or not in hell, since i also have no previous experience with an ES sorcy.

[Tai.]

The most important thing about ES Sorcs isn't listed in your thread.
Telekinesis has an unlisted Synergy with EShield. I believe its 16 hard points in TK to get to the point where it's a 1:1 ratio between dmg taken and mana lost (im sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about that), so you'd ideally want to go with that number, I'd suggest something like the following.

20 Orb
20 CM
16 TK
1 Warmth
1 Static
8 Pre-Reqs
20 Teleport (1 mana teleport is sooooooo secksay especially with Insight, makes Mana Burn a joke which is a big deal for ES Sorcs.)

That comes to 86 points (I didn't account any for EShield, because the number you put in will depend on how big your mana pool is)which with all quests done is achievable at lvl 75.

Since you are doing this untwinked, I'd suggest that you max Teleport last, but decide whether you're going straight Energy or a mix of Vit/Energy beforehand.

Cheers and goodluck, I did this once untwinked and it was a blast, especially playing with 20 life all the way up until I had a decent EShield to keep me alive.
-Tai

[YellowDyeNo5]

Never tried the maxing teleport bit, though sounds entertaining.

My first sorc of the season was:
20 orb
20 mastery
20 tk
20 ice bolt

I figure when you have one attack, even that minute ice bolt synergy is helpful. With all quests done, 1 point in static and 1 point in eshield, you'll be done at lvl 80. This gives plenty of time to put extra points to static, tele, warmth, or whatever you'd like. With the usual -pdr/mdr gear (gerkes and dwarf star are both easily traded for) this build has little trouble surviving meph/andy runs. Insight on the merc and you're set.

My current sorc is more build for nihlathak runs. Regular fire sorc (fireball/bolt/meteor/mastery) will put you at around lvl 75 with quests done, and after static/eshield points, you can get 16 in tk by lvl 93, or use a eshield staff/orb on switch for a prebuff and save four skill points. Whichever works. This sorc had much more in the way of funding, so I'd suggest trying the previous one out first.

[CoriolisEffect]

yes but yellow, this is for ES sorc so 20 in ES need sto happen along with 16 in TK i guess, i planned on putting like 60 in VIT just so i dont die by level 18

[YouHaveMail]

max tk not es. if you max both you won't have enough power to kill anything.

[CoriolisEffect]

max tk not es. if you max both you won't have enough power to kill anything.


so its 16 tk 1 es for 1:1 damage/mana ratio?

[PhatTrumpet]

A 60 vit Sorc simply is not viable untwinked, period. I've only ever heard of one person trying it on Hardcore, and I don't think he made it past lvl 25ish. It might be an interesting project if you have people to rush you to lvl 85 and the gear to make it work, i.e. stuff like Glad's Bane, Gerke's, +9ES staff on switch (last time I checked, the whole point of the build was to get a ridiculously high EShield and then rely on points of DR and MDR rather than resists and %DR since the former take effect after EShield), but otherwise don't bother.

The "ES" build for Hardcore is what everyone else is telling you to do:

20 Orb
20 Mastery
20 TK (there's nothing "ideal" about slvl 16 TK, it just happens to give the 1:1 ratio, there are no diminishing returns so the more points here the better)
20 Teleport
1+ Static
1 Warmth
1 cold armor of your choice (I use Shiver)

Notice I didn't even list a point into EShield. 'Memory' in a staff with +3ES inherently grants +9 to EShield without any point investment. The unique Gothic Staff grants +6ES total (+3ES, +3 all skills). It's not difficult at all to find a yellow, blue, white, or grey orb or staff with inherent EShield on it. Just put one of these on your weapon switch and save the 4 skill points for something else. You can easily prebuff ES to the point where diminishing returns really start to hurt it, saving you many many points. Again, the only time you'd ever max ES is if you were doing the extremely specialized base vit build, and even then you don't need to max it if you can get slvl 40 ES by prebuffing.

I've never been a fan of pumping Warmth, especially now that I can just slap an 'Insight' on my Merc.

Budget gear to look out for (ideal, good, average):

Wizard Spike, Suicide Branch, Spectral Shard
Whitstan's (PDiamond), Moser's, 'Rhyme'/3-diamond shield
Vipermagi, Spirit Shroud, 'Stealth'
Peasant Crown, 'Lore', 3-sapphire helm
Bloodfist, Frosties, Magefist
Waterwalks, Nat's boots, Tearhaunch

With the average gear you could probably run Hell Meph with decent charms and a good connection. With the ideal gear, which doesn't even come close to the godly gear many people insist on, you can run Hell Meph in your sleep so fast you realmdown yourself.

[Silkweed]

A while back, I asked about whether to put more points into Teleport or whether to put more points into Warmth. In 1.10, I had a sorceress with maxed Teleport, and it's fantastic, but when you're fighting, it can be a bit of a pain since orb costs so much mana. Maxing warmth on the other, I did back in 1.09, and although it's sexy too, if you get hit for your whole mana pool, it can mean that you're dead in the water.

For this patch, I ended up putting 10 in each skill, and it evens out very nicely. Teleport costs roughly 10 or 11 mana after +skills, but I also have a very respectable mana regeneration rate so that I don't have to worry about having to chug potions every second when I'm fighting Andy.

For long teleport trips, I find that I'll have to drink a potion here or there. Usually one between Cata 2 and 3 and then between 3 and 4. I also drink one if I get below about 20% mana, just in case.

[PhatTrumpet]

But why bother with Warmth when 'Insight' is so easily accessible?

[Tai.]

With Insight, warmth has become a 1-point wonder.
By the time you have something arguably better for your merc, such as eth Obedience Cryptic, you should have either enough +skills to make warmth moderately helpful in keeping up with your 1 mana teleport or you should be using Wizzy, which has decent mana regen, so I always go with 1 point warm unless its a syn.

Cheers
-Tai

[Silkweed]

Andy rips through my mercenary, so I don't use one when I MF run her. Also, I haven't found a good weapon to make an Insight out of.