PvP Assassin questions. (assassin forum=dead)

[Freezing Rain]

My assassin is using 9x 25+ MA Lifer GC's. The weapon i can't decide.

Andy's Visage
xxx Weapon // Stormshield
Archon enigma (though i have a nice 15/15 bp base)
Angelics Ammy // 1x ring (Here is where i have a problem too, do i need this AR)
xxx/20 ravenfrost
2/25 dancers OR 210 up'd gores (Which do i use? I was going to do gores for ow/cb)
10ow/FHR/20+str Crafted belt
15str Dracul's
Torch and Anni blahblah

1. Do i need the extra AR from angelics or should i go highlords/dual leech stat ar? I already have a nifty 79/4/6, will probably use this for pvm.
2. Gores or dancer's?
3. Beast War pike vs. Azurewrath Phase blade (um) vs. Fury runics

Runics will cost the most, beast a bit less, azurewrath cheap. I can afford any of them, maybe all of them if need be.Which should i use and why?

4. Do i need a doom zerker axe?
-To keep in stash versus ww barbs? too BM?

5. The belt i mentioned or dungos? dungos = vit + 10fhr given, belt = 10ow/20str/POSSIBLY some fhr.. but i have 43% DR from ss and enigma, i don't know if i should bother getting that meager 7% from the dungos. I'll probably just ber my ss.

6. USEast Ladder is my realm.

[SlainByPain]

Doom will just make ww barbs kill you faster... What type of assassin is this..?

[Phyrexial]

I would guess that it is a kicker from the gear/charm choices.

[RetroStar]

That's what I thought, why are you using Doom vs. Ww barbs.

Slow WW = more hits.

[Freezing Rain]

*cries*
I asked if i needed it.. i didn't say i was going to use it.

So either the fury runics or azurewrath.. MA gcs or SD gcs? HALPMEH

[Quietus]

*cries*
I asked if i needed it.. i didn't say i was going to use it.

So either the fury runics or azurewrath.. MA gcs or SD gcs? HALPMEH


I'd use fury runics. Style points + lots more ow.

Then again, I'd go with a claw/claw setup, using probably fury runics with jade talon for resists... claw block is more effective than regular block, really.

[RetroStar]

1. Angelic for pvp vs melee. Highlords/Ravens for caters/pvm
2. Up'd gore
3. Fury
4. You'll die to WW babas anyway. Doom helps vs. zeal/fury but don't think a kicker does well vs. those.
5. OW belt. Are you using Fade? That gives passive DR too
6. Good for you.

[Phyrexial]

If I remember what Speederlander said, kickers are only good if they are specialized in either caster or melee killing. A melee kicker will always be somewhat subpar against other melee, they tend to use Beast/SS in my experience with the few good melee kickers I've seen. The caster killer variety can be deadly in what it does if played well but only if it is played well. From my brief experience with a kicker, it can be difficult to master. If you go this route, claw/claw is the way to go.

Consider looking up Speederlander's guide for kick/WW hybrid, it can be adapted to a pure kicker and has alot of important info for kickers.

[Ebofidergodden]

have you ever though of using the unique called "The Lacerator" ?

33% ctc amp dmg :)
30%ias
33% OW

Since ed and damage on weps dont help out kicker. just the mods do and these mods are pretty sweet specialy the amp. Just a though , i could be totaly wrong lol .

[Freezing Rain]

I thought about it and decided not to.

So far what i have is:

Fury runics // Jade Talon
Enigma Vs. Bramble (frobe's choice)
I'm using BoS.. should i be using fade? I don't even know how much BoS level i need for the fastest kick.

So my skills:

20 Dtalon
However many for 60% or so in claw block
20 BoS? (probably much less, i have no idea)
20 Dflight (rawr)
and i'll figure out more later.

Definitely 1 in light and wof.

[Freezing Rain]

I just read through chaos9's build and i feel like it's crap. Dueling in NM? jeez.

I'm re-reading speeder's build atm.

::edit::
reread speeder's build and i'm itching to build his ww/kick so bad, but it's out of my price range at the moment since i'll have to buy fury+chaos in GOOD runics, and another 3shadow/20fcr (my last one got 1 socket, i cried)

I'm going anti caster C/C with fury and JTalon by the way.

[Quietus]

I just read through chaos9's build and i feel like it's crap. Dueling in NM? jeez.

I'm re-reading speeder's build atm.

::edit::
reread speeder's build and i'm itching to build his ww/kick so bad, but it's out of my price range at the moment since i'll have to buy fury+chaos in GOOD runics, and another 3shadow/20fcr (my last one got 1 socket, i cried)

I'm going anti caster C/C with fury and JTalon by the way.


Well, if it makes any difference, do NOT max dragon flight or burst of speed. Now, for some frame breakdowns :

Fury runic/jtalon with no other ias and no burst of speed, you get 10 frame traps, and 8/3 kicks.

With 25% additional ias on top of what's on fury, you get 9 frame traps, but retain 8/3 kick

With 30% additional ias on top of fury, you get 9 frame traps and 7/3 (Which I believe is fastest?) kicks.

If you put a single point into burst of speed, that will be enough after +Skills to max your speed. However, I think you might be better getting the 30 ias and using fade.

[Phyrexial]

You should generally use Fade over BoS, the only time I see BoS used over Fade by good kickers or WW sins is against necros to allow them to more easily outrun Spirits.

As for your skill setup, remember that Venom is your primary source of damage and it should be maxed. Speeder made some other points that stuck out in my mind:

- He preferred Shadow Dancers over Upped Gores. The amount of dex it grants you is very nice as it can help offset the amount of strength required to use Myrmidon Greaves by saving you stats as well as the fhr/+skills. The +skills being very nice as they will increase your fade, weapon block, and probably most importantly venom.
- He stresses not to max Dtalon as for caster killing. You will want to have a lower number of kicks to grant more mobility. With only 3 kicks per volley this allows you to hit and run more effectively as well as maintaining the MB/trap lock that is terribly important easier. MB/trap lock is one of the premiere strengths of the assassin, especially in the caster killing role. Which brings me to the next point...
- Max Mindblast. As you increase the skill lvl the stun duration greatly increases which makes trap locking easier, causes the Shadow Master to use MB more often, and even makes MB a viable finishing attack on an injured opponent.

With the points you save from not maxing Dtalon as opposed to your average kicker, you will be able to have alot of flexibility to do other things. I believe Speederlander made some other suggestions as to what to max with the spare points which I don't remember at the moment.

[Freezing Rain]

Taken from speeder's guide:
--------------------------------
For a runic talon on primary hand and jade talon off-hand you need:
63 IAS to get 9 frame trapping
68 IAS to get 7/3 kicking

So i'll be getting 68 IAS.
+20 IAS from Andariels Visage
+20 IAS from Highlords Amulet
+15 IAS Jewel in andy's
+15 IAS in jade talon

Does off-hand claw IAS work? It should so this should be 70% IAS, enough to hit 7/3 kicking and 9 frame trapping.
---------------------------------------------
I've decided to go with the following equipment:

-Andariels Visage (STR/Skills/IAS) [IAS jewel]
-Trang's gloves (no brainer)
-Enigma (claw block when teleporting)
-1x 20dex raven
-Highlords amulet
-Wisp or Dwarf or another raven, depending.
-Shadow dancers 2/xx
-Arach's
-Jade Talon [IAS Jewel]

20stat assassin torch
19stat annihilus
----------------------------------
--Martial Arts:
::Dragon Talon – 7
::Dragon Claw - 1
::Dragon Tail - 1
::Dragon Flight - 1+ (After i max others, i may put a few more)
--Shadow Disciplines:
One in everything
::Claw Mastery – 20
::Venom – 20
::Mind blast – 20
::Weapon Block - Enough to get 60% Block
::Fade - 50% DR with +8% DR from Enigma, will probably need 18 hard points in it.
--Traps
One in WoF, Light sentry, blade shield if i don't get fury runics

I'll be going with level 17 Dtalon.
+2 Andys
+1 Highlords
+2 Enigma
+2 Jade Talon
+1 Battle Command
+2 Shadow Dancers

So 7 points in Dtalon should be plenty. Please tell me if i did something wrong.
------------------------------
I will get around 110-120 or so strength.. probably going to use Great Hauberk enigma or archon plate (just because i might get a GH from a friend)

with +Str this should be 200 or more, is this good enough for kick damage?
--------------------------------
FCR:
10fcr Ring -- left ring
20fcr Trangs Gloves
20fcr Arachnids Mesh

50% so i have 12 frame teleporting/trapping/mbing.. is that good enough?
-------------------------------
FHR:
48/86 would be those that i would aim for.
+30% Dancers
+30% Jade Talons

So i need 2 FHR Shadow disc GC's, and 1x 5% fhr sc.
-------------------------------

Main questions:
1. Does the second claw IAS work? If so then i hit the breakpoint.
2. Should i use the 4x MA lifers i have? 34 30 30 27, or go with all shadow discipline gc's? (I will need 9 plain ones then, can't afford lifers)
3. Do i NEED 11 frame teleporting? Will 12 frame work well enough?


Help appreciated, thanks all.

[RetroStar]

Offhand claw IAs doesn't affect it.

Also I would take shadow gc over ma because the effect of shadow gc is much greater. (venom, SM, claw mastery, fade, mb)

[Freezing Rain]

If i use a chaos SUWAYYAH how would i get the speed i need?

And i still need more IAS to hit the fastest bp with 35 from andys and 20 from highlords.

:stupid question:

does the IAS from fury affect it? ~_~

[Freezing Rain]

I just checked it agian and the rw ias works..

40 IAS from Runic Fury
20 IAS from highlords
15 from IAS jewel in shako..

There.

[Quietus]

No clue about whether or not 11/12 frames is a big difference.. .ultimately, I think you could probably survive with 12. However, I'll back up the importance of shadow skillers over martial art ones. The extra life is nice, but ultimately you'll gain more benefit from the shadows.

As a side mention, I have three or four plain shadow skillers on USeast nonladder that I'm not using at the moment, I'd be willing to trade them for a single pcombat if you're on the same realm as I am. [/end shameless self promotion]

[Freezing Rain]

No clue about whether or not 11/12 frames is a big difference.. .ultimately, I think you could probably survive with 12. However, I'll back up the importance of shadow skillers over martial art ones. The extra life is nice, but ultimately you'll gain more benefit from the shadows.

As a side mention, I have three or four plain shadow skillers on USeast nonladder that I'm not using at the moment, I'd be willing to trade them for a single pcombat if you're on the same realm as I am. [/end shameless self promotion]
I need someone to answer me this: does OW from the off hand weapon contribute to the total amount of OW that you have? If i put an um in my off-hand JTalon would it work?

UsEast Ladder, sorry.

I need 6 more. This is my final gear setup:

I plan to get str to 118 base for my GH enigma, and it's a nice round number with +str to get to around 200 for some nice kick damage.

If i can afford a CtA at the end i will buy one.. but i only have like 4 HR's left to buy things with.

-Shako (15 ias jewel) (still have to get)
-Great Hauberk Enigma
-Jtalon 224/2/2/45 (Res Jewel // or um if my question is answered)
-10fcr/3ll/3ml/18life/11lr/4str/14dex ring (thanks Darnoc!!)
-20dex raven (still have to get)
-Fury Runics (still have to get)
-Highlords
-+2 dancers (still have to get)
-9x shadow disc gcs (i need 6 more)

-So with all of this i have 70IAS, hitting 9frame trapping and 7/3 kicking.
-I have 30 fhr from SD's and 30 from Jtalon. I plan to use this for most duels but if i'm dueling trappers or something i will stick 6 5FHR scs in there. (or if i can get a Shadow gc with 12fhr, then i will only need 3 5fhr scs, etc.)
-I have like 50 base dex and 75 base str right now, i hope i didn't put too mcuh dex ( i needed a wep to level and malice btalons own) 50+20+19+14 is like 100 or so, so i should be able to wear runics easilly..

[Phyrexial]

If you Um your offhand weapon it will contribute to your OW total. However, only when that weapon hits. For example:

OW on non-weapon gear: 30%
OW on primary claw: 50%
OW on secondary claw: 20%

This doesn't mean you have 100% chance to get OW. Rather, you have an 80% chance when your primary claw hits and a 50% chance when your secondary hits. Take BvC barbs as an example, they are always mentioning the CB and OW from Beast which is their offhand weapon.

[Freezing Rain]

If you Um your offhand weapon it will contribute to your OW total. However, only when that weapon hits. For example:

OW on non-weapon gear: 30%
OW on primary claw: 50%
OW on secondary claw: 20%

This doesn't mean you have 100% chance to get OW. Rather, you have an 80% chance when your primary claw hits and a 50% chance when your secondary hits. Take BvC barbs as an example, they are always mentioning the CB and OW from Beast which is their offhand weapon.
Awesome, thanks.

[Freezing Rain]

Why doesn't my Dtalon damage on char screen change when i cast venom?

[Quietus]

Why doesn't my Dtalon damage on char screen change when i cast venom?


It's a display glitch, from the LCS - Lying Character Screen. The damage is there, you can see it working if you take off your boots and kick, the enemies will turn green. Coincidentally, any elemental damage carried to your kick doesn't show - lightning, cold, fire, magic, OR poison. The damage is there, the game just doesn't want to show you.

[Freezing Rain]

Thanks quietus.

How much IAS would i need if i decided to use a Suwayyah Fury instead of a runic talon one?

Runic/JTalon = 68 IAS for fastest trap/kick.
Suwayyah/JTalon = XX IAS?

[Quietus]

Thanks quietus.

How much IAS would i need if i decided to use a Suwayyah Fury instead of a runic talon one?

Runic/JTalon = 68 IAS for fastest trap/kick.
Suwayyah/JTalon = XX IAS?


Let's see. Suwayyah/Jtalon.
no burst of speed : 60 ias for 8/3 kicks, 115 for 7/3 kicks, 105 for 9 frame traps.

With level 10 burst of speed (Past that it doesn't make a huge difference unless you're talking MASSIVE difference in level) : 15 for 7/3 kicks, and 15 for 9 frame traps.


I'd only go suwayyah/jtalon if you intend to use burst of speed. It's obviously not worthwhile otherwise. True, the damage on suwayyah is much higher (A full 33%! >.<) the resists and damage reduction you get from fade are too sweet to give up for a small increase in damage, when an assassin's damage comes mainly from venom/open wounds.

[Phyrexial]

No reason for a kicker to use a slower but higher damage weapon though since the damage of the claw doesn't influence kick damage in the least.

[Quietus]

No reason for a kicker to use a slower but higher damage weapon though since the damage of the claw doesn't influence kick damage in the least.

This is true. I typed that last night when I was about to go to bed; For some reason I was thinking it might be helpful for ww. -_- Nevermind the fact that chaos was nowhere in the picture.

Use the runics, they're just better. =P