View Full Version : should dK kill hImself now because of beast necros?!??
"Third, if you need to ask why Beast Necs are badass, just kil yourself now."
this was an original post by chaozhc.
did i miss how gawdly these pvp charrrrrrrs are? any think a beast necro can beat.... well anything?
Speederländer
07-11-2005, 19:11
Don't beast necros just shred WW barbs? I don't think they do very well against fire druids though.
Dennis_KoreanGuy
07-11-2005, 21:02
Don't beast necros just shred WW barbs? I don't think they do very well against fire druids though.
WW Barbs + Smiters are the king of physical damaging melee kings.
Please don't list a build you know of that happens to consecutively beat Smiters + WW Barbs at a melee duel, because offensive Smiter with Grief and defensive BvB or BvC with Doom + max DR will own all melee. Period.
Beast nec? Nec who turns into bear with beast? Never saw one before... I doubt it will be as good as Beast ES/Enchant sorc.
Anyone have a guide for it or anything? Also, is it viable in 1.11? :confused:
WW Barbs + Smiters are the king of physical damaging melee kings.
Please don't list a build you know of that happens to consecutively beat Smiters + WW Barbs at a melee duel, because offensive Smiter with Grief and defensive BvB or BvC with Doom + max DR will own all melee. Period.
Beast nec? Nec who turns into bear with beast? Never saw one before... I doubt it will be as good as Beast ES/Enchant sorc.
Anyone have a guide for it or anything? Also, is it viable in 1.11? :confused:
Heh, I think you misunderstood. By beast nec he means a summoner with beast.
As for the beast necs, well, minion stack with Immune monsters can make them nearly unkillable, but anyone who can tele will pretty much be able to escape them long enough for the revives to die, and then its gg nec.
Oh god..
A beast nec is a summoner with Beast who teles onto you then transforms into bear form to get basic double life. Minions stack + IG = GG most classes instantly, and add in a good merc..
And rauth is a hoob :D
GG Auradin? Or how about a Light Sorc?
Can't they just revive monsters with immune to whatever you have?
DarkMousy
08-11-2005, 01:44
Ghostsins should kill them with mb + trap stun, as should any decent kicker, if no sorb then trappers too. Mb knocks the necro out of his minions, leaving you free to tele ww or kick. Barbs, slap a lifetap wand on switch and tank if they decide to IM you. Windies... torn just goes through minions and nec dies before minions do. If given a bit of distance, bowazons with dream and pierce can own them... multi + dream + pierce = mass confuse aura, and when the nec teles the summons will stack, and kill him. Auradins just rape them, same with a good FOHer who can lock onto the nec. Godly bone necs just make them look like idiots. FB sorcs own them too, the splash from fb kills them. Chain lightning can kill them also. They're decent for killing pubs, but then again any decent dueler can own up pubs with spit. Summon necs have alot of weaknesses, pubs just don't know how to exploit them.
You people talk about the beast necs like they are nubs, any decent beast nec can also take advantage of certain things;
-Immunes vs your element
-Waiting till you are on screen vs MB sins and jumping on them for almost insant kills.
-Decreping Barbs
-Doom merc will own all melees as WW is useless vs beast necs.
-Thorns + IM
They are decent duelers. Not the best, but they can be pretty badass if played well. Only chars I wouldnt want to duel with one is FoHers and Dreamzons. Auradins would get raped unless they desync with charge and aurastomp you, but any non-BM Auradin would be a fair matchup. DK is just a ****ing retard who doesnt even know what a beast nec is, so I pointed it out to him, but whatever.
Phyrexial
08-11-2005, 03:44
Any decent MB using sin will stunlock the necro before the necro can kill the sin given roughly equal skill. Not to mention offscreen MB casting by the Shadow which makes things even worse.
Decrep and Holy Freeze both only slow the movement of WW characters, not the rate at which they hit targets within their range. You will take the same if not more hits from a slower WWing character. If they lifetap your minions, they will generally outtank you.
Thorns and IM are dealt with via Lifetap.
Wind Druids will also cut through the minion stack with Tornado in seconds.
One other build to take into account is the Rabies druid. They generally have enough life to take a few hits and are fast enough to prove difficult to consistantly hit via telestomp if they just run south. All they need to do is get one bite off on any of your minions and it's good night summoner.
oh choazhc i was going to send you this thead at the pala forum but you saved me time ^^.
list of pvp chars that will kill beast necros:
fireball sorc
blizzard sorc
maybe not orber
lightning sorc
cs zons
rabies
2342398 runwalk zons
ghosts
trappers
wwsins
bvbs
bvcs
bvas
fohers
smiters using grief + exile
hammerdins
mages
vt.s
t.vs
liberators
werewolf druid with lifetap wand on switch
poison necs with 125% fcr
should i keep listing? i can.
oh yes for more fun and entertainment go to pala forums and see chaozhc talk nonsense. and how he can pwn blobs maniac eternalspirit and much more!
@chaozhc: everyone knows your an idiot. stop trying to make sense from the crap coming out of your mouth lol. anyone that invests "5-10" points into holy bolt for a foher is a newb already, let alone thinking a pure foher is not a flawed build.
You people talk about the beast necs like they are nubs, any decent beast nec can also take advantage of certain things;
-Immunes vs your element
-Waiting till you are on screen vs MB sins and jumping on them for almost insant kills.
-Decreping Barbs
-Doom merc will own all melees as WW is useless vs beast necs.
-Thorns + IM
They are decent duelers. Not the best, but they can be pretty badass if played well. Only chars I wouldnt want to duel with one is FoHers and Dreamzons. Auradins would get raped unless they desync with charge and aurastomp you, but any non-BM Auradin would be a fair matchup. DK is just a ****ing retard who doesnt even know what a beast nec is, so I pointed it out to him, but whatever.
how do i not know what a beast necro is? now your just assuming things. ive played litereally every single character class there is to be known, please dont pull things out of your ***.^^
also by the chance the necro teleports then transforms into a bear, ANY chracter will already have moved location (via teleport or simply running south?), then you have to reshift before you get owned. its funny how you dont even know what your talking about.
here ill icp duel you. since rabies druid wasnt on your "most feared" list. you use beast necro and ill use rabies druid or a sorc. ill humbly ask phrex to make the chars for both of us and we can duel. sounds like a plan?
Speederländer
08-11-2005, 04:53
WW Barbs + Smiters are the king of physical damaging melee kings.
Please don't list a build you know of that happens to consecutively beat Smiters + WW Barbs at a melee duel, because offensive Smiter with Grief and defensive BvB or BvC with Doom + max DR will own all melee. Period.
Beast nec? Nec who turns into bear with beast? Never saw one before... I doubt it will be as good as Beast ES/Enchant sorc.
Anyone have a guide for it or anything? Also, is it viable in 1.11? :confused:
I think you missed my joke...
I think you missed my joke...
speedlander pulled a knee-slapper :haha:
oh choazhc i was going to send you this thead at the pala forum but you saved me time ^^.
list of pvp chars that will kill beast necros:
fireball sorc Maybe, with enough FCR
blizzard sorc rofl, your joking I hope? Blizz only deals dmg in waves, not every wave hits everywhere, so they would get owned.
maybe not orber With enough FCR they can
lightning sorc FCR zzz
cs zons Minion Stacks > CS
rabies hahaha, amusing. how exactly? gogo 3k dps psn dmg?
2342398 runwalk zons exploits are BM
ghosts how
trappers Possible, but unlikely due to immunes and high FHR on the nec
wwsins No melee skill beats minion stack with Holy Freeze, dont you get it?
bvbs No melee skill beats minion stack with Holy Freeze, dont you get it?
bvcs No melee skill beats minion stack with Holy Freeze, dont you get it?
bvas No melee skill beats minion stack with Holy Freeze, dont you get it?
fohers didnt I just tell you they would in the other thread..?
smiters using grief + exile No melee skill beats minion stack with Holy Freeze, dont you get it?
hammerdins Possibly
mages Yeah, they "Can"
vt.s Yeah, they "Can"
t.vs Yeah, they "Can"
liberators Yeah, they "Can"
werewolf druid with lifetap wand on switch No melee skill beats minion stack with Holy Freeze, dont you get it?
poison necs with 125% fcr Never dueled against one, can't tell
should i keep listing? i can.
oh yes for more fun and entertainment go to pala forums and see chaozhc talk nonsense. and how he can pwn blobs maniac eternalspirit and much more!
@chaozhc: everyone knows your an idiot. stop trying to make sense from the crap coming out of your mouth lol. anyone that invests "5-10" points into holy bolt for a foher is a newb already, let alone thinking a pure foher is not a flawed build.
So, your rebuttle is basically listing every build you can think of, to try and support your theory? Great idea man. How about explaining the specifics for each build and WHY they would win?
Oh, and if Maniac is the nub Ebayer who came to easthc, he refused to duel any of my chars flat out, and was killed by a friend of a friend, Mr. Kime. The only way to beat Beast Necs is with unstoppable damage (Hammers), or splash//multi damaging attacks (FB//Orb//Auras) You have proved nothing besides the fact that you are both arrogant, and a nub? You say any other character would have moved but are you unaware that when skeles hit they cause stun/block-lock, making it impossible to simply "tele away or simply run south" as you put it, even with high fhr//fbr frames. I do not duel on open with people I do not like, and I dont even have D2 LoD on my computer anymore, nor do I have the CDs, sorry mate. Maybe you would duel a friend of mine (Giwit) in my stead? He's HCEast and was a friend of mine for awhile now.
@Phyre you have a point with Shadow being an advantage for hitting off-screen first, but you are infact wrong about WW. WW hits 6.2 times//sec at max, and with 30+ summons with you, chances are you will attain 1 hit every 5 seconds, while taking a beating. And isnt LT BM in SC duels? I know it is on HC, nonetheless, the barb would have to be on the same screen to cast with LT's short radius, making easy prey to telestomp, esp. if he's caught with his wand out. But what do I know..
So, your rebuttle is basically listing every build you can think of, to try and support your theory? Great idea man. How about explaining the specifics for each build and WHY they would win?
Oh, and if Maniac is the nub Ebayer who came to easthc, he refused to duel any of my chars flat out, and was killed by a friend of a friend, Mr. Kime. The only way to beat Beast Necs is with unstoppable damage (Hammers), or splash//multi damaging attacks (FB//Orb//Auras) You have proved nothing besides the fact that you are both arrogant, and a nub? You say any other character would have moved but are you unaware that when skeles hit they cause stun/block-lock, making it impossible to simply "tele away or simply run south" as you put it, even with high fhr//fbr frames. I do not duel on open with people I do not like, and I dont even have D2 LoD on my computer anymore, nor do I have the CDs, sorry mate. Maybe you would duel a friend of mine (Giwit) in my stead? He's HCEast and was a friend of mine for awhile now.
@Phyre you have a point with Shadow being an advantage for hitting off-screen first, but you are infact wrong about WW. WW hits 6.2 times//sec at max, and with 30+ summons with you, chances are you will attain 1 hit every 5 seconds, while taking a beating. And isnt LT BM in SC duels? I know it is on HC, nonetheless, the barb would have to be on the same screen to cast with LT's short radius, making easy prey to telestomp, esp. if he's caught with his wand out. But what do I know..
no the maniac on east is newb probably like you said. maniac on west is kak xe-malice and blobs. you cant talk smack on either of them since you cant come close to rauth while hes on dialup lol.
to answer for phrex. 30 skeles? like it matters when a barb leaps once and your out of minion stack. get your facts straight. barbs > your crappy beast necro and ghost > your crappy beast necro. why not just icp duel me? ill use a wwbarb k k? no BM either. sounds good? my two choices are ghost and wwbarb. you can choose which i shall be, why dodge this offer since i cant get past your 30+ skeles right? loooooooool. deadeye is right. no point in even talking to you, you dont even know that leap and mb bypasses minion stack. ~_~
also my list was to prove that pretty much every build can beat it. because its a flawed build. if you want i can list more.
Any decent MB using sin will stunlock the necro before the necro can kill the sin given roughly equal skill. Not to mention offscreen MB casting by the Shadow which makes things even worse.
Decrep and Holy Freeze both only slow the movement of WW characters, not the rate at which they hit targets within their range. You will take the same if not more hits from a slower WWing character. If they lifetap your minions, they will generally outtank you.
Thorns and IM are dealt with via Lifetap.
Wind Druids will also cut through the minion stack with Tornado in seconds.
One other build to take into account is the Rabies druid. They generally have enough life to take a few hits and are fast enough to prove difficult to consistantly hit via telestomp if they just run south. All they need to do is get one bite off on any of your minions and it's good night summoner.
rabies druid can hit over 6k life with max dr and 50k+ rabies. your right. this is probably number 1 in killing wussy beast necros that hide behind 30 skeles. but ive always like ghosts and barbs. do you still have them saved by any chance?
rofl 50k over what, 15 seconds? Listed damage means **** if its over time, especially over along period of time. FHR locking isnt very hard with 30+ attackers. Leap would never hit since you constantly tele untill you telestomp and fhr lock the other dueler, and MB would work, but the ASN would go down fast if I landed a jump on 'em.
And as I said, I dont have D2 here, nor do I play LoD anymore. I'll ask tamer (giwit) to duel im my place if you like.
And read my comments in bold, retard.
Actually, I'll ask any one of my friends to duel you with a beast summon nec on open, and I want you to beat the beast nec with every char on your list up there. I willk have him post results here, give me some time to get in contact with a couple.
My predictions:
You lose every round but MB asn and FoHer.
rofl 50k over what, 15 seconds? Listed damage means **** if its over time, especially over along period of time. FHR locking isnt very hard with 30+ attackers. Leap would never hit since you constantly tele untill you telestomp and fhr lock the other dueler, and MB would work, but the ASN would go down fast if I landed a jump on 'em.
And as I said, I dont have D2 here, nor do I play LoD anymore. I'll ask tamer (giwit) to duel im my place if you like.
And read my comments in bold, retard.
Wait, leap would NEVER hit? So you're going to just completely stay out of the Barbs path all day? Then how are you going to lock him up? As soon as 1 leap lands with even your legs in his screen, your minions get knocked off of you and since you're playing with revives/minions/mercs, I'll be free to lifetap spam on you. Teleport and WW and then you're dead. Dead. Dead. Dead. IM won't kill me, thorns probably won't do enough damage as well with Lifetap juving me up every so often. If you get away, that's fine.. wands generally have enough charges to last quite a while. In a Cat and Mouse game.. you getting in the way of a leap = you dying.
Edit:
bvcs No melee skill beats minion stack with Holy Freeze, dont you get it?bvas No melee skill beats minion stack with Holy Freeze, dont you get it?
What the bloody hell?
2nd edit:
2342398 runwalk zons exploits are BM
BWAHAHAHA. Then what the hell do you call this build? Getting skeletons, a merc, and revives that are specifically used to counter an elemental caster is..... GM? Rofl. At least the zon just uses her items to desynch, rather than the necro going around and grabbing gloams or oblivion knights.
Lord, what the hell is with your tactics?
Just a small reminder guys, keep the cussing to a bare minimum ok? :D Just below the stick banning threshold is a good benchmark. It's funny about the verbal dueling "if you do this, then i do that, then if you do that, i do this so i always win, hahaha".
p.s. if you guys do duel, I want to see the results
SlainByPain
08-11-2005, 07:15
243434234 frw zons are bm? Oh snap.
My zon would never lose to a summoner..
Wait out 3 min for revives to die and LF > Summons.
Just another cluebie who thinks killing tal's set MF sorcs makes him invincible.
Sorry. Wrong. Barb > Summoner.
DarkMousy
08-11-2005, 08:06
Oh, did I mention howl also owns skellies? rofl. Leap in place, by the time you tele on me your minions will be kb'd long enoguh for the barb to hotkey howl and your minions run.
i made this thread to show how ignorant you are. looks like i did my job HAHAH. notice how NO ONE that posted agrees with you? ok i did my job. im done. :)
dK
<3 chaozhc
oh ya.. id love to duel your friend with every char listed on the list but thats a waste of time for phyrex. also i highly doubt that your friend can be any good since hes YOUR friend and you sink points into holy bolt to kill beast necros. oh.. and think barbs cant kill beast necros because of minion stack...
i bet your one of those people that i would kill with 1 fireball or whirl then he goes back to cold plains were monsters are weakest and spend 5 minutes killing for skeles again lol.
-you posted your ugly typing all over my list with nonsensical crap. but out of them you said that trappers wont have a chance, rabies, blizzard, barbs. stop dodging my offer and give me your friends acc so i can duel him on open with these characters,i will let mcm take the barb since hes considered #1 on west and he likes to prove people like you wrong.
-oh...and its not smart to put "how" next to ghost where i listed it. you probably dont even know what ghost is.
-another thing, rabies doesnt have to kill you. obviously you didnt think this through (then again what do you think through haha) rabies only needs to kill your summons at most and our naked. want to wack a 6k life druid with grief backup fury with your beast stick? let me do the math for you since your sucha little stubborn kid:
3200 a second.
533 after pvp
133 per second.
x20 again to see total damage = 2665 damage. this is also not including max damage which can hit close to 70k and not including deaths web which would lower your resist by 55. now unless your skeles have over 2500 life then your necro is going to be naked.
quote from kbobs skele guide:
"Any Werewolf or Bear minus a rabies build will get stomped . Rabies will chew your skeletons so just get in there and hit em before you die."
- blizzard RIPS skeles alive including you since you have crappy resist. (no hoto or wiz because of beast? id like to see you stack) even fi you get immune revives. only takes the sorc 3 minutes before they are dead, in the mean time the sorc player can go down stairs and bring a nice soda, drink it, take a piss and come back. then your screwed. dont try to conclude that 30+ skeles can tank 16k blizzard with over -250 resist. dont even make me bring up iceblast+glacial spike which does 8k damage and renders them COMPLETELY useless.
-your beast necro can beat trappers??? AHHAHAHA thats the one class your guy can NEVER beat. try teleporting into 5 trap fields each doing over 10k damage while your minion stack is useless since mb is knocking you out of it while you cant even move due to fhr animation. ONLY character classes that can get out of trapper mindblast very well are charging pallys and barbs. necro fhr = CRAP, even windies have better chance of survival. not to mention mb from ANY sin renders your skeles useless. ghosts inparticular hit mindblast levels over 45.
-barbs = level 22 leap. = double fhr animation + KNOCK BACK. same concept as mindblast without the swirly. didnt know that huh? this is how a duel again st a bvc will go:
tele
tele
leap
tele
whirl
beast necro slain by bvc.
k? good.
again... PLEASE dont post things you dont know. your just making yourself look foolish.
Squelchzorz
08-11-2005, 14:52
Just another cluebie who thinks killing tal's set MF sorcs makes him invincible.
Sorry. Wrong. Barb > Summoner.
Killing tal sorcs is amusing though due to their reactions. Anyways, carry on.
Phyrexial
08-11-2005, 15:44
@Phyre you have a point with Shadow being an advantage for hitting off-screen first, but you are infact wrong about WW. WW hits 6.2 times//sec at max, and with 30+ summons with you, chances are you will attain 1 hit every 5 seconds, while taking a beating. And isnt LT BM in SC duels? I know it is on HC, nonetheless, the barb would have to be on the same screen to cast with LT's short radius, making easy prey to telestomp, esp. if he's caught with his wand out. But what do I know..
I am well aware that having multiple targets within the radius of WW will distribute the attacks between the targets, what I was saying was that the attack rate (6.2 hits/sec according to you) stays the same regardless of chill/slow/decrep/etc. So, the only thing that you would be doing to a WW character by using Decrep/Holy Freeze is to slow his "movement" and not his damage output. Now, this might be advantageous if you were ranged but a summoner has to get in close and personal so whether or not the barb is WWing slowly is irrelevant since you will be teleporting onto the barb.
The minion stack that you have will only protect you for so long though as your Revives will die due to the timer and skels won't hold up for long if they use Lifetap. As for lifetap being BM, so is getting Revives+Skels+merc in the same tier of BM as lifetap. You could potentially telestomp the barb while he is casting, but you would be surprised how quickly they can escape in the case of a BvC as they will most likely be casting a frame or two faster than you.
To address some individual matchups from dkay's list and some others:
CS zon: Lightning Fury can be very very nasty against someone with that many summons. It strikes every target in the stack and each bolt will hit each target within range, which translates to you getting hit with 30+ bolts or so. However, I would say the necro has a 50/50 chance or so because CS zons can be treated like melee and decrep'ed/HF'ed which will result in a terribly slow attack/runspeed and they will most likely die before they come out of stun/dodge lock.
Rabies druid: Perhaps you have never dueled a decked out rabies druid but they will be doing enough damage in 1 bite to kill you. Granted it is over 20 seconds or so, but evading a telestomper really isn't as hard as you make it out to be. If you are using HF/Decrep, you have considerably better chances but it isn't guaranteed. With the amount of life rabies druids can get with max dr though, it really can take quite a while to take them down. Time which you don't have once you've gotten hit.
BvC/Ghost: If you can get even 1 kill on either of these classes when a good player is using them, I will be very very surprised. They both have a means of stunning you and seperating you from the minion stack in the form of Leap and MB respectively. Leap has a fullscreen radius at level 22, even more than a screen if pushed higher while MB will hit you offscreen from the shadow. If you make one wrong guess and teleport onto a trap while you have the MB swirlies over your head, you are dead. Make no mistake about that, no amount of fhr you get will get you out of that traplock consistently before they get a few hits if not killing you outright.
Psn necro: They are summon stack killers. Nova ignores stack completely and damages everything in it's radius. They will be teleporting at least as fast as you, have some range, and are not affected by stack which means you might as well be a less damaging, lower life, windy to them.
Another class I forgot to mention was a psn jav zon which has similar properties to the psn necro. With proper fcr they can tele fast enough to evade you until the psn can do it's work and 1 jav will bring you to 1 unless you are a very high life build like a barb/druid, I can tell you that from experience.
The one point I will agree with Chaos on somewhat is that no melee class minus WW will beat HF+decrep+minion stack.
In closing, there is one factor that any summoner should remember to take into account that can really make things difficult. Just as your HF will slow down any normal melee, if your opponent uses Doom as well then all of your minions are also attacking incredibly slowly. It is no big deal at all for a BvC to slap on a Doom and have your skels/revives be slowed to a crawl.
Dennis_KoreanGuy
08-11-2005, 16:42
O lol a summoner nec with beast. I have one. It owns barbs + zons sooooo easily, but near impossible against casters. ;)
RetroStar
08-11-2005, 21:02
O lol a summoner nec with beast. I have one. It owns barbs + zons sooooo easily, but near impossible against casters. ;)
Please.. Beast Summoner > PvM
dennis if your not being sarcastic then id like to duel you with a barb. or just give you mcms acc since my barb is gone and MHMHx's barb is in process of rebuild.
Ididmephistosmom
09-11-2005, 02:43
damn expensive build that i can only dream of
Valvolux
09-11-2005, 03:56
I have a 92nd level 'beast' summoner necro, hes mainly pvm, but it does work pretty well in duels alot for the time. Whirlwind will always win tho...but nearly all other melee chars die because of gumby + decrepify or Iron maiden.
Against casters its alot harder mainly due to the fact that using 'beast' your tele'in is gonna be slower than most and lots of spells ignore minion stack as already said.
Like all build they have flaws, but they're not as weak as some forum members seem to think.
I have a 92nd level 'beast' summoner necro, hes mainly pvm, but it does work pretty well in duels alot for the time. Whirlwind will always win tho...but nearly all other melee chars die because of gumby + decrepify or Iron maiden.
Against casters its alot harder mainly due to the fact that using 'beast' your tele'in is gonna be slower than most and lots of spells ignore minion stack as already said.
Like all build they have flaws, but they're not as weak as some forum members seem to think.
my main reasons for them sucking is this:
caster attacks are either 1 hit killers or splash. both worst enemies to necros with bad resist (beast necros since they cant use hoto or wiz, unless they have good charms)
melee have skills that knock you out of minion stack. (leap,mb,smite)
and all sins (any good sin) have mb which render skeles useless (stun) and any character class had access to doom which also makes them useless. like mousy said, pub newbs just dont know how to exploit all the holes that a beast necro has. also mr. chaoz made them sound godly. esp if he has to invest points into holybolt JUST for this one build lol.
Valvolux
09-11-2005, 07:15
Yeah i agree summoning necros in general are far from being one of the 'top duelers' but they can do okay in the right hands. And i don't think smite is gonna knock you outta minion stack. The only melee chars summoning necros have to worry about are ones that can whirlwind pretty much.
And your point about assassins using mind blast + wake of fire pretty much applies to all chars, except thoses that can whirlwind...seeing a patten yet?
silly dkay, trix r 4 kidz
u all seem tense, we all know which classes beat what after how many years of d2?
calm down and have a nice laugh before u all get banned again:
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6582/liononstilts5vy.jpg
Dennis_KoreanGuy
09-11-2005, 14:51
Please.. Beast Summoner > PvM
I thought we were talking about PvP. Obviously your statement is true. -.-
dennis if your not being sarcastic then id like to duel you with a barb. or just give you mcms acc since my barb is gone and MHMHx's barb is in process of rebuild.
Lawl. Hmm I gotta get my Nec torch anni gcs and all that crap again, but I will if you want to duel so bad.
Bring barb plz. Mcm's too. In fact, bring all ww barbs you got. BPrison + Lvl 21 Thorns + Amp + 34 Skelliez + CGolem + Merc + Me = 10000k% damage returned in your face.
btw I can just get revives too. Then it'd be over quick.
The reason I can beat zons is with Decrep.
I really really don't want to duel you... I'm really out of things to spend as I just prepared a real nice mage, but if you really want I'll just duel you w/o Enigma + charms lol. ;)
p.s. omfg luis that teh funniest pic i ever seen. :D
bowazons with dream and pierce can own them... multi + dream + pierce = mass confuse aura, and when the nec teles the summons will stack, and kill him. sorry for bringing up this argument from page 1 again, but i have a couple of questions on this.
1. AS lists dream with 10 % ctc lvl 15 confuse when struck, so i don't see how a dream zon would own a summoner. is AS wrong again or did the poster mix up dream and delirium (11 % ctc lvl 18 confuse on striking)? or is there any other argument for using dream?
2. i thought ctc only worked on the two middle arrows of a multishot. wouldn't this lower the chances of a zon against the nec, so that she at least wouldn't be "owning" him in all duels?
meh. ill just let mcm duel you. im curious since you seem so sure. but one thing:
revives = useless since 3 minutes and you got to go hunting again. im also sure that mcm will play smart and just tele + tele + leap + howl + zerk you. necros can only take so many 8k+ zerks.
edit: weapon choice would be grief + doom. GG slow skelies :)
2. i thought ctc only worked on the two middle arrows of a multishot. wouldn't this lower the chances of a zon against the nec, so that she at least wouldn't be "owning" him in all duels?
where did you get this info from. its interesting.
meh. ill just let mcm duel you. im curious since you seem so sure. but one thing:
revives = useless since 3 minutes and you got to go hunting again. im also sure that mcm will play smart and just tele + tele + leap + howl + zerk you. necros can only take so many 8k+ zerks.
Also, Doom + lifetap would be viable in Barb vs Summoner :p
ya with doom and zerks and howl and leap. all used not even simultaniously, i think dennis is looking at this in the wrong way.
Phyrexial
09-11-2005, 19:17
I wonder what would happen to a summoner if the barb or sin used Clegs...
incase u all forgot the top two bm chars u can use are:
1) hdin
2) ww barb
no char comes close to how badly u can bm with these two if u have the right gear and the right type of pots.
with that said, there is no way to beat a bm barb w/o a bm hdin
Maybe on SC mercs are BM, but summoners with mercs are legit in HC duels, simply because it encourages more builds to be used, and some builds are heavily dependant on Mercs. Any curses from a non-necro are BM and the only time ive ever seen a non-necro use a curse in pvp was for PKing. Maybe we on HC are just wierd though.
If you get me into a stunlock, im dead. If I can stunlock you outside of traps, or out of zerk range, you are dead. It's pretty simple as the builds you are suggesting are all passive damage (Poison for killing summons), or stunning//damage (Leap, MB). I have never said any build was unbeatable dkay, stop acting like a nub who just had his only shako jacked. I'm sorry to see you get your panties in such a bunch on D2 forums.. but whatever, to each his own. The same goes for your nub clan.
Phyr: You prove very valid points, but I do not think a rabies druid could evade a tele//summon nec for long enough, once you get name-locked, your screwed. But it is possible to kill a beaster with rabies, just have to have to be quick or very lucky.
Maybe on SC mercs are BM, but summoners with mercs are legit in HC duels, simply because it encourages more builds to be used, and some builds are heavily dependant on Mercs. Any curses from a non-necro are BM and the only time ive ever seen a non-necro use a curse in pvp was for PKing. Maybe we on HC are just wierd though.
If you get me into a stunlock, im dead. If I can stunlock you outside of traps, or out of zerk range, you are dead. It's pretty simple as the builds you are suggesting are all passive damage (Poison for killing summons), or stunning//damage (Leap, MB). I have never said any build was unbeatable dkay, stop acting like a nub who just had his only shako jacked. I'm sorry to see you get your panties in such a bunch on D2 forums.. but whatever, to each his own. The same goes for your nub clan.
Phyr: You prove very valid points, but I do not think a rabies druid could evade a tele//summon nec for long enough, once you get name-locked, your screwed. But it is possible to kill a beaster with rabies, just have to have to be quick or very lucky.
uhhhhh? doom = crap skeles? 6k life with max dr + max resist = tankage? hell i can charge feral rage and just desync you for all i care. enough dodge. duel me or get your imaginary freinds acc so we can duel or just stop postiing all together.
oh ya.. you can call my clan newb but you cant even beat rauth? lololololololol. kk thnx kk gg?
But it is possible to kill a beaster with rabies, just have to have to be quick or very lucky.
Correct me if I am wrong but when you tele and one of your skelies is diseased, don't you and all of your minion s become poisoned to? If that is true then when you tele your basicly dead as the druid only need to run around. It isn't very hard to avoid a summoner... and you have about 5 seconds to live :D
Dennis_KoreanGuy
10-11-2005, 00:30
kk. mcm's account?
Im west nl btw. ;)
More like 20 seconds, and tele-locking isnt very hard, especially with a slow connection, you can catch somebody up to 2 screens away in a telestomp, and no char, even with max DR, can take alot of skeles pounding on your *** for 20 seconds flat, nevermind merc//gumby//revives, but it is "possible" to kill a beasty with a rabies druid, I just cant see them with any more advantage than another melee, as nothing lives longer than 20 seconds in a duel with high-dmg chars like summon necs.
You never beat Rauth
Uh.. I never once dueled rauth on B.Net? ANd how am I dodging when I dont have Diablo on here exactly? Give me some time to get a friend on who will duel you, and somebody is already on who has a decent beast nec, so duel him for now. Unlike you, I have things to deal with in RL before I think about dueling you, so give me a few days to get into contact with somebody who still plays. Whatever, *****.
More like 20 seconds, and tele-locking isnt very hard, especially with a slow connection, you can catch somebody up to 2 screens away in a telestomp, and no char, even with max DR, can take alot of skeles pounding on your *** for 20 seconds flat, nevermind merc//gumby//revives, but it is "possible" to kill a beasty with a rabies druid, I just cant see them with any more advantage than another melee, as nothing lives longer than 20 seconds in a duel with high-dmg chars like summon necs.
you really must have forgotten the part on "doom" haha. ive given you about 5 days now to get a friend. still ahvent. oh well hide more pls.
also you forget another thing, skeles wont live for the full 20 seconds, they die in less. geez your stubborn.. and stupid.
Like I said, Doom + lifetap and then you've got a major problem with your army. Also, can't rabies druid builds equip a Doom? Bite, run away from the now slow as hell moving army?
Like I said, Doom + lifetap and then you've got a major problem with your army. Also, can't rabies druid builds equip a Doom? Bite, run away from the now slow as hell moving army?
you can probably just stand there and fury too. skeles will fall in like 5-10 seconds. if not the necro first.
Umm.. I thought we established that Tap is BM?
DarkMousy
10-11-2005, 03:24
If you consider certain things BM/GM, then duelling with a merc and/or revives is just as bad as using tap. Your skellies lose alot of power without a merc's auras, so it's a lose/lose situation no matter how you look at it. I don't consider anything BM/GM (well, aside from health/juv potting and such, but w/e if you have to health pot then that means you would have lost anyways) so it's all good to me.
Any melee that does a decent amount of physical dmg can tank skellies with lifetap, amp/im/decrep or not. Your doom counters his decrep, and with lifetap you'll leech back more than you'll take with any curse. You can only have one curse active at a time, so with doom + tap, the melee always has an edge. Furthermore, cloak of shadows + doom + nosferatu on a kicker will pretty much ensure your skeles don't do anything, might not even need mb for the kill. With beast, the highest bp you're getting is 75%, so even with namelock stomping, you're teleing slower than most other chars. Ever tried stomping a vigor charging pally, or a feral rage druid? Not that easy, even if they're decreped. If they are decreped, your skeles won't do half the dmg potential they have; amp + im is what gives them severe killing power. Telestomping a non amped or im'd char isn't gonna do much dmg... pretty much any elemental char with decent life and/or eshield can kill skellies pretty quickly as well. Namelocking a 13k blizz sorc with decent dr, eshield and block (bmanas make all the difference) is more than likely gonna get you killed. Blizz on herself + spam glacial spike.... plus again she could use doom and not loose much dmg and still tele at a better frame than a beast nec. Revives can be outlasted in town. FB sorcs own, vives or not, from splash dmg. Lite sorcs can use pretty much anything, and IIRC static field owns skellies too. Orb just rapes skellies, and a good defensive orber will stay off your screen at any given time. I love watching summoners duel pure pnb necs... they just get owned. PSN necs rape them, and don't forget, they have stat points left over so they can stack some summons for meatshield as well. Bonenecs just rape them, spear + teeth > skellies. FCR is crucial in any form of NVN dueling, and spearlocking a necro who teles at a slower frame isn't that hard... just as an FOHer can namelock you under your summons, a bonenec can do the same and spam spear... spear travels through your minions as well and will hit you. Teeth fields just destroy skellies. Also, bone necs can snipe with spear and teeth from offscreen, lay spirit fields, etc. A defensive bone nec is pretty much an impossible duel for a summoner. Auradins would just kill you, plain and simple, telestomping an auradin is NOT easy, especially when they can just desynch off your screen at will. I imagine a wc barb would beast you as well, casting at 8 frames with JUST dual wizzies and arach, or hotos + arach + fcr ring. Teleport beside you and cry... with no block (spirit would be the best choice for a shield IMO as you get amazing stats + huge fcr, and if you have enough dex to block with spirit, then you just suck) you'll be in fhr animation along with those skellies... and wc barbs can tank quite a bit, they have HUGE amounts of life, and most decent ones have at least some DR. But yes, I'd love to see how this beast necro fares in some duels against capable players, not just pubs. I'm sure that with a beast nec you'll own up pubs, but then again any decent player can own a typical pub game with his/her spit.
@macbeth: ty for pointing that out, my bad. Both start with d, and both are usually made in BV's.... but yeah I ment delerium not dream lol. Delerium + multi , and if he wants to use decrep, simply slow him back with clegs + nosferatu and ice bow as well XD. Keep harmony on switch for mass frw to desynch off the necros screen and spam multi again. You don't need the dmg per se, you simply need to get the confuse curse on the skellies and the necro gets owned by his own army. Mercs convert as well, so the necro is pretty much screwed at that point. If you want to do dmg as well, you could always stack psn scs.
Umm.. I thought we established that Tap is BM?
Umm.. lose the skeles + revives + merc and lifetap won't be added into the equation. =] It's simple, really. The very use of non recastable summons is deemed BM in SC. I guess in HC it's not, since HC is the ohsofun you die and you stay dead land of dueling. But like I said: Skeletons + revives + merc + IM + whatever, bonewalls? = an automatic reason for lifetap + Doom.
reviving immune monsters isnt bm?
im against melee isnt bm?
lol your all messed up in the head. hurry up and find a person we can kill.
.. a summoner is a build, not BM on HC. I play by HC rules, not SC.
Mercs are not BM on HC, but I can understand why they are on SC.
Non-Necro Curses are BM, but a necro using curses is not, besides, I'd use Amp or decrep, not IM.
.. a summoner is a build, not BM on HC. I play by HC rules, not SC.
Mercs are not BM on HC, but I can understand why they are on SC.
Non-Necro Curses are BM, but a necro using curses is not, besides, I'd use Amp or decrep, not IM.
Well, if you want to compare like that, then a lifetap wand and Doom is fine as well, since they're just items on the build.
The use of ANY Charged items is considered BM.. but maybe I'm wierd?
The use of ANY Charged items is considered BM.. but maybe I'm wierd?
*shrug* A necro + skeles + revives + merc is pretty much considered BM.. so once that comes in th gloves come off. But I dunno if mcm would use a lifezapper.. maybe just a Doom.
DarkMousy
10-11-2005, 05:03
Since there's a conflict of interest with regards to hc/sc "rules", if duels are established, why not just say everything goes minus health potting/juving. So vives, mercs, charges, IM, the whole 9 yards? Or if you want to duel according to "rules", then abide by both sides, meaning no mercs/vives/IM and no charges. Sound good? I think it does.
You challenge me you play by HC rules, or none at all. I dont mind Doom, but charges are just weak as Tap on a WW barb is basically unkillable.
You challenge me you play by HC rules, or none at all. I dont mind Doom, but charges are just weak as Tap on a WW barb is basically unkillable.
HC rules? So the barb is allowed to Juv?
Sure, but im also allowed to run away and resummon at will with wizz on switch. Theres a difference between being BM and just being a pansy, and pansies pot, I dont.
Sure, but im also allowed to run away and resummon at will with wizz on switch. Theres a difference between being BM and just being a pansy, and pansies pot, I dont.
That was more of a sarcastic question than it was serious. Either or, if you're going by 'rules', you duel in the moor, leaving the moor or heading into the den o evil counts as an automatic loss. So you might run out of summons a bit faster than usual.
Also, I'm simply stating as to what is deemed BM/counter-BM for the SC side; whether mcm or dkay agree to your rules or a lack of rules is entirely up to them. But again, a summoner with revives geared to counter the other dueler + a merc automatically warrants a Doom + lifetap.
TheDanRathersProject
10-11-2005, 05:15
HC rules? So the barb is allowed to Juv?
:lol: Juvs are just like life tap but he can't use them when ww'ing and he gets his mana back also. :lol: I would much rather fight with lifetap on against a good bvc then one that can juv.
DarkMousy
10-11-2005, 07:04
HC rules or none at all? None at all then obviously, which is what I suggested earlier. That way no party can complain about anything.
None meaning I wont be dueling. No-holds-barred, barbs will win every duel, every time, if atleast semi-competant.
Valvolux
10-11-2005, 09:13
Yes we all know a ww barb beats anything...no questions there. But what i think chaozhc is getting at is, that they can be just as challenging as most other builds.
Yes casters can beat them and yes ww barbs/sins can too, but from my experience no zon or other melee char will come close, gumby + decrepify or Iron maiden is just to powerful.
Dennis_KoreanGuy
10-11-2005, 16:01
kk I'll whisper soon.
Found out my nec lost his double axe beast. Will be dueling with an xfered hoto. Lol. I'll whisper asap I go on d2.
I must say, I'm pretty scared atm since mcm seemed so gg in his videos, and never dueled a ww barb that actually used doom + leap + howl + etc. in succession lol. ;)
Scurry :D
Just Amp and telestomp as soon as hes on screen, youll get a full second of hitting him before HF would kick in :D
i thought ctc only worked on the two middle arrows of a multishot. wouldn't this lower the chances of a zon against the nec, so that she at least wouldn't be "owning" him in all duels?
where did you get this info from. its interesting.
i can't find a perfectly reliable source atm, but i read it in the forums here lots of times.
one of plenty posts this is mentioned can be found here (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=399940&highlight=multishot+middle+arrows).
then again, you could of course use strafe to trigger the confuse curse. strafe doesn't fire as far offscreen as multi though and it locks you in place for a while, so this makes things more difficult for a zon.
chaos_masterzz
22-02-2006, 07:45
iron maiden > barb
cuz life tap is bm :) (yes i know im is also)
4 all u guys who don't get sarcasm.... *this is a joke...don't flame me lol*
blobswannabe
22-02-2006, 19:41
iron maiden > barb
cuz life tap is bm :) (yes i know im is also)
4 all u guys who don't get sarcasm.... *this is a joke...don't flame me lol*
i don't have life tap wand i just zerk them.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.