Fingerprint

[Wingmaker]

Any one know how this works exactly? and why I keep getting duplicites. I thought every item was suposed to spawn with an unique finger print yet when I decided to run my flavie report it said i had items with duplicite finger prints. I looked through the list and about 99% of them are items of diffrent types but there are a couple of them are the same type of item, how does this happen? I have never taken stuff off my char she was in a diablio world or any of the other things that my cause a duplicite. When i do my runs I load atma and after enough to fill my ingame stash I close out of diablo and dump everything into an unsorted stash then when that gets to about 200-300 items i sort it into other stashs ie grail/sets/unique ... I dont want to delete all theses items that have duplicet fingerprints because i know they are all liget and I did nothing to dupe anything. But is there a way to prevent more from being made like that or is the fingerprints just totaly random and limited to a set in wich case getting duplicite fingerprints is just something that happens..

[Wraithan]

If the items are not identical, you have nothing to worry about. Fingerprints are random, and so if you happen to get 2 of the same print on 2 diff items, it is no big deal.

[jjscud]

That's not exactly true. Duplicate items with matching fingerprints are very, very rare. If you're getting lots of them then I'm sorry, there some funy buisiness going on somewhere. Diablo 2 itsself has such a low chance of creating duplicate fingerprints that with a good number of them appearing, its a given that there is something outside the original Diablo 2 game causing it.

[Wraithan]

I have had 3 pairs of items with the same finger print, in my old stashes. 4 months of collecting items, Depending on how long and how much,I can see there being some overlaping fingerprints. Granted, if all these items that have the matching FPs also have perfect stats are high TC, or any number of things, I can see someone calling it fishy.

[Cattleya]

I don't think I've ever had two items with the same fingerprint show up in Flavie, so while it is possible, it isn't very common, and if it is happening a lot to you, I'm going to agree there is something weird going on with your D2 install.

Can running D2 using the -seed command cause funny fingerprint things to occur? (I'm talking about actually playing the game with the -seed command active, not just using it to reset a map.)

[AshenPlanet]

.

Do the items of same item-type and fingerprint have identical stats?
If they do, it would indicate that the fingerprint is used to generate the stats of the item.
If a system for generating the variables from the fingerprint is found, I could write a program to go through atma stash files and check fingerprints vs. item stats to determine if and which items were hacked.

.

[Cattleya]

.

Do the items of same item-type and fingerprint have identical stats?
If they do, it would indicate that the fingerprint is used to generate the stats of the item.
If a system for generating the variables from the fingerprint is found, I could write a program to go through atma stash files and check fingerprints vs. item stats to determine if and which items were hacked.

. I'm certainly not an expert on fingerprint generation, but I know that fingerprints are not related to stats in any way. I think it is based on the games seed and the "time" in the game that it drops. (Time meaning how many decisions the game has had to make.) I'm sure someone else can clarify/correct what I have said. :)

[Dodgydave]

I've been playing for 3 years and have never had duplicate fingerprints show up on items. If you're getting it a lot then something fishy is going on IMHO.

[Darkwell]

It has been mentioned many times here and on the stats forum, that running with -seed command can cause duplicates.

[jjscud]

Can running D2 using the -seed command cause funny fingerprint things to occur? (I'm talking about actually playing the game with the -seed command active, not just using it to reset a map.)

Yes, multiple games started with the same -seed value can create identical objects but these have always been found to be identical, fingerprint stats, and always from the same object (i.e. chest).

I've never before heard of anything, except item creation programs, that create different objects with the same fingerprint commonly.

[Wraithan]

.

Do the items of same item-type and fingerprint have identical stats?
If they do, it would indicate that the fingerprint is used to generate the stats of the item.
If a system for generating the variables from the fingerprint is found, I could write a program to go through atma stash files and check fingerprints vs. item stats to determine if and which items were hacked.

.

Short answer: No

Long answer: The fingerprint didn't used to be for anti dupes, it was for stat determination, but only in really old versions. The did away with how stats were generated from fingerprints (then they were just item ID) but they left the part of the code in that generates the fingerprints and then proceeded to use it for dupe detection on battle.net.

[Wingmaker]

*** Item matched : 173: Arctic Mitts with FP 0x1b1a46a7(C:\My Documents\Set Items.txt) Fingerprint was allready used by another item: 102: Isenhart's Parry from file C:\My Documents\Set Items.d2x. Item is different type and both are listed anyways.
*** Item matched : 198: Sigon's Guard with FP 0x826ef369(C:\My Documents\Set Items.txt) Fingerprint was allready used by another item: 492: Bahamut's Ring from file C:\My Documents\Rings and Amulets.d2x. Item is different type and both are listed anyways.
Item matched : 354: Tancred's Spine with FP 0x6ff4fcc7(C:\My Documents\Set Items.txt) Fingerprint was allready used by another item: 325: Tancred's Spine from file C:\My Documents\Set Items.d2x
*** Item matched : 86: Goldwrap with FP 0xe9387813(C:\My Documents\Uniques.txt) Fingerprint was allready used by another item: 105: Magnus' Skin from file C:\My Documents\Set Items.d2x. Item is different type and both are listed anyways.
*** Item matched : 166: Spineripper with FP 0x80c1c8bc(C:\My Documents\Uniques.txt) Fingerprint was allready used by another item: 174: Naj's Circlet from file C:\My Documents\Set Items.d2x. Item is different type and both are listed anyways.
*** Item matched : 190: Skull Splitter with FP 0xb659133b(C:\My Documents\Uniques.txt) Fingerprint was allready used by another item: 164: Vidala's Fetlock from file C:\My Documents\Set Items.d2x. Item is different type and both are listed anyways.
*** Item matched : 252: Soulflay with FP 0x6f492ed0(C:\My Documents\Uniques.txt) Fingerprint was allready used by another item: 74: Griswold's Edge from file C:\My Documents\Uniques.d2x. Item is different type and both are listed anyways.
*** Item matched : 255: Goreshovel with FP 0x6231e74f(C:\My Documents\Uniques.txt) Fingerprint was allready used by another item: 254: Steeldriver from file C:\My Documents\Uniques.d2x. Item is different type and both are listed anyways.
*** Item matched : 289: Ichorsting with FP 0x83587545(C:\My Documents\Uniques.txt) Fingerprint was allready used by another item: 101: Isenhart's Lightbrand from file C:\My Documents\Set Items.d2x. Item is different type and both are listed anyways.

these are the ones that are showing up as duplicate
only one that is of the same type is the tankers spine i have 8 of them and two have the exact same duriablity and fingerprint.. i have just under 3000 items so this is about 8% i think that is coming up with duplicate fingerprints..
only thing ive evern done with my diablo is back befor i decided i wanted to do SP i installed this mod The Hordes of Chaos but i uninstalled it befor i started new sp chars.. Im going to uninstall d2 all together and reinstall and see if I get fewer..

[jrlafrance]

Item matched : 354: Tancred's Spine with FP 0x6ff4fcc7(C:\My Documents\Set Items.txt) Fingerprint was allready used by another item: 325: Tancred's Spine from file C:\My Documents\Set Items.d2x
Maybe Randall or Hakai can answer this, but if the item is listed in a .txt file, why would ATMA think its a duplicate, just because there is also one in a .d2x, or .d2s file? Doesn't make sense to me... :scratch:

[Quickdeath]

Maybe Randall or Hakai can answer this, but if the item is listed in a .txt file, why would ATMA think its a duplicate, just because there is also one in a .d2x, or .d2s file? Doesn't make sense to me... :scratch:

Good catch, as a matter of fact, all of Wingmaker's FP matches are between a .txt file and a .d2x file.

[Wingmaker]

Good catch, as a matter of fact, all of Wingmaker's FP matches are between a .txt file and a .d2x file.


Hmm I may not be using flavie correctly then.. ill go back and read the manule on the fourm.. allready reinstaled d2 though

[jrlafrance]

Hmm I may not be using flavie correctly then.. ill go back and read the manule on the fourm.. allready reinstaled d2 though
I'm not implying that you are doing anything wrong. I've come up with similar "problems" between .txt files, and .d2s files. I was just curious as to how ATMA could contrue it as being duplicates.

[AlterEgo]

I was just curious as to how ATMA could contrue it as being duplicates.
ATMA doesn't - it's Flavie that's generating these messages. Strange indeed...

[javcek]

Maybe Randall or Hakai can answer this, but if the item is listed in a .txt file, why would ATMA think its a duplicate, just because there is also one in a .d2x, or .d2s file? Doesn't make sense to me... :scratch:

There's nothing strange in this; it's just the way Flavie reports duplicates. The txt file is an atma dump of the d2x/d2s file with the same name. In the example you mention, there are two tancred's spine with the same fp in "Set Items.d2x"

[Shagsbeard]

It's strange too that all the items but one are set items. That might be a result of the stash that was being reported, but what's the goldwrap doing in there?

[TheJarulf]

I'm certainly not an expert on fingerprint generation, but I know that fingerprints are not related to stats in any way. I think it is based on the games seed and the "time" in the game that it drops. (Time meaning how many decisions the game has had to make.) I'm sure someone else can clarify/correct what I have said. :)

The so called fingerprint is actually the initial seed used in the item generation. There are actually two different seeds used, one for the base item selection and creation and another for the magical properties. The time has nothing to do with it at all.

EDIT: Note that some properties of an item, such as the DR is not considered as part of the magical properties for the purpose of which seed is used, but uses the same seed as was used to determine quality and such. I don't recall if the so called finerprint is the seed used for base item or for magical properties though, but it should be relatively easy to check.


Even with the same initial seed, two "identical" items might not be identical. For there to end up with exactly same stats, they need to have the same item level for example, otherwise the same base item will almost always end up with completely different magical properties.

[Randall]

These are Flavie messages, ATMA has very little to do with it (other than being so nice to generate the .txt files). I actually haven't looked into these for some time now, so my information on this subject is a bit "rusty".

Most likely I added the txt name for the first and the .d2? for the second file. Why, never noticed it I guess.

If you added both the .txt file and the .d2x file to Flavie, it will detect all items in that stash as dupes. (not just one)

This is very uncommon that you see this many duplicate fingerprints on items, allthough it must not neccesarely be illegit items. In a cross-check of multiple forum members I once did, I only found 1 or 2 of these (and all instances came from one member)

If you see a duplicate fingerprint with 2 identical items (same stats), chances are high they are dupes. Better check them out and delete one. Perhaps forgot saving once after moving a item in ATMA or a unnoticed hotmule ?

2 items with different stats (or even different items) are normally not dupes. Legally they could exist on items, but on "only" 3000 items that are a lot. On a base of around 64000 items from multiple forum members I found 1 or 2 (and none are where one to another member).

Randall