View Full Version : Hakuna Mugabe
Zimbabwe admits 'errors' on land (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4395472.stm)
A Zimbabwean minister has said that many of those given land since 2000 know little about farming and this has led to food shortages.
The authorities have previously blamed hunger on poor rains, while critics have pointed to the seizure of most of the country's white-owned land.
Up to three million people will need food aid this year, the UN says.
Help me out here folks - this has got to have something to do with the EEVIL white mans in the U.K. (and the U.S., and probably any others on-hand), but <what> exactly? And how can Bobby boy blame them, yet get the aid he'll need to feed all these mouths?
PatMaGroin
01-11-2005, 16:39
You spelled Matata wrong.
SaroDarksbane
01-11-2005, 17:06
So, how long before they confiscate the remaining 500 farms in the name of social equality?
EDIT:
It's amazing. The more I look at this situation, the more it looks like an Atlas Shrugged style collapse.
You've got the confiscation of resources from the rich to give to the poor:
the country's main foreign exchange earners - tobacco, agriculture and tourism - have beenlargely wiped out by a government land grab that began five years ago and has left only about 200 of 4,500 commercial farmers operating.
You've got the people in charge attempting to make everyone a law-breaker so they can have "the dirt" on everyone should their authority be challenged:
"Mugabe has files on everyone," said a source close to the 81-year-old leader. "He encourages those around him to stick their hands in the till so the moment anyone gets cold feet about what he's [Mugabe's] doing and wants to quit - or starts thinking he's a liability - he pulls out their file."
Rights have been replaced with political pull:
Some companies have been forced to make "donations" to the
ruling Zanu-PF party to continue operating. Those which fail to do so are
well aware of their likely fate. In the past two years seven private banks
have been "specified" - closed down and their assets seized.
Mutumwa Mawere, one of Zimbabwe's richest tycoons, had his flagship conglomerate, Shabanie Mashaba Mines, seized by presidential decree
last year, along with finance and insurance companies and supermarkets.
What a disaster.
Turning what used to arguably be one of the most healthy African nations into a rolling farce. Seems like quite an indictment on Mugabe. Any suggestions on spin from m'learned left-leaning friends here?
In another era, this would be solid proof of the colonial-style "White Man's Burden". But in the modern context, all it does is show just how thoroughly corrupt and disastrous African gov't is.
The more I look at this situation, the more it looks like an Atlas Shrugged style collapse. Hey, don't spoil it for me - I had to get away from the book and am only about 2/3 through it :D
Sir EvilFreeSmeg
01-11-2005, 19:30
Just another case of leftist incompetance. They stole from the rich and gave to the poor. The entire time paying absolutely no attention to why the rich got rich in the first place. The rich got that way by hard work. The poor were poor because they didn't work as hard. The basics of capitalism visible to everybody willing to see.
Now they're in trouble and who are they going to scream for help at? The US. As usual. Funny how we're such bad guys and how capitalism is such a horrible thing and yet we're the ones that you go to when you try socialism and it fails. Whodathunkit? :lol:
Carnage-DVS
01-11-2005, 23:21
Warning, Right Wing circle jerk ahead, anyone with differing opinions beware that should you make concise and decent arguements, Smeg will never be heard in this thread again.
By the way, did anyone else think Hakuna Matata from looking at the thread title?
StAlbion
02-11-2005, 00:09
People (and I use the term in it's loosest sense here) like Evil Conservative Inc might be the reason the U.S is ever so slightly disliked around the world. Arrogance, ignorance and sheer rudeness combine to form the image of the stereotypical American.
Now, I think that most of the land was given to "war veterans" who supported Mugabe, as well as cronies of his. While some certainly were poor, the reason they got the land was of their support/personal connection to Mugabe. If you have any examples of the United States being blamed, please give them.
And just in case you thought you were the "good guys", here's a reminder for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_abuse enjoy it! :lol:
Your post was as much flame as Smegs was, and just as rude (the whole denying his being "people" bit). Don't be a hypocrite by doing the same thing you're *****ing about.
StAlbion
02-11-2005, 00:49
I don't think so: I suggested he only just about managed to be a member of the human race, he attempted to slur a respectable political stance (poor people have rights) by using a BUSH = HITLER method, COMMIE SCUM = THESE DAMN SOCALISTS!oneoneone
DurfBarian
02-11-2005, 00:59
Turning what used to arguably be one of the most healthy African nations into a rolling farce. Seems like quite an indictment on Mugabe. Any suggestions on spin from m'learned left-leaning friends here?
There is no spin. Unless you're saying that liberals are for Mugabe's brand of asshattery, in which case it's time for me to ask you why you support torturing prisoners in Abu Ghraib, or something.
African rulers are by and large a slimy lot. If we can help the people who suffer under them I think we should, but if we can find a way to do so that kicks the medal-encrusted bastards out on their asses it's all for the better.
This isn't a case of stealing from the rich to give to the poor . . . It's a case of a crooked dictator egging on the poor and directing thir anger toward white farmers instead of himself. In the meantime he continues filling up his Swiss accounts and buying Riviera properties, no doubt. Worked quite nicely, and as a special bonus Smeg and Jmerv seem to be more upset about political philosophies than about the fact that someone like Mugabe remains in power at all. Looks like you fellas have the spin thing mastered quite nicely; why ask for help from the likes of me? :teeth:
PatMaGroin
02-11-2005, 01:20
By the way, did anyone else think Hakuna Matata from looking at the thread title?
Excuse me? First reply...
Mugabe is my favouritest world leader.
A Zimbabwean minister has said that many of those given land since 2000 know little about farming and this has led to food shortages.
Wow, I totally didn't see that coming.
What can I say about Zimbabwe that isn't painfully obvious?
P.S. lay off the left/right wing comparisons, they have zero relevance.
P.P.S. the Hakuna Matata thing was obviously intentional.
Steel_Avatar
02-11-2005, 06:47
Right or Left, I don't think anyone is a fan of Mugabe, and I think it's rather poor of the right-wingers here to try and link the Left with him.
Draconis
02-11-2005, 08:41
Since when has 'stealing land at gunpoint to distribute amongst your political cronies' been considered equivalent to 'redistributing land to the poor'? That's about as accurate a representation of the situation as the description of teenaged government-sponsored militia as 'war veterans'... of a war that happened in the 70s.
There is no spin. Unless you're saying that liberals are for Mugabe's brand of asshattery, in which case it's time for me to ask you why you support torturing prisoners in Abu Ghraib, or something.What, you mean that there aren't enough threads devoted to that already? And yes, liberals are quite supportive of gov't-ordered redistribution schemes like the asshattery in question, since you seem to have forgotten your PolySci101.
African rulers are by and large a slimy lot. If we can help the people who suffer under them I think we should, but if we can find a way to do so that kicks the medal-encrusted bastards out on their asses it's all for the better.OMG U R TEH WARMONGRR!!
Worked quite nicely, and as a special bonus Smeg and Jmerv seem to be more upset about political philosophies than about the fact that someone like Mugabe remains in power at all. Looks like you fellas have the spin thing mastered quite nicely; why ask for help from the likes of me? :teeth:Simply because otherwise this stuff seems to be ignored by the left. No doubt you'd prefer to concentrate on the screw-ups involved in eliminating a similar vicious dictator.
I guess it's GoGo socialism, but when it comes to having a country and its people visibly ruined by it, er, not so much.
Right or Left, I don't think anyone is a fan of Mugabe, and I think it's rather poor of the right-wingers here to try and link the Left with him.
On the contrary, Steel, he IS what leftist policies achieve in the truest sense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism). Just because the lefties here don't like having their nose rubbed in it doesn't make it somehow untrue.
Draconis
02-11-2005, 11:33
I guess that next time you get mugged you'll also complain that that is a 'government wealth distribution scheme', and ***** about how the lib'ruls are ruining America.
I guess that next time you get mugged you'll also complain that that is a 'government wealth distribution scheme', and ***** about how the lib'ruls are ruining America.
No, that would be when I'm incarcerated for killing a would-be mugger. After all, victims' rights belong only to the politically correct... :D
Sir EvilFreeSmeg
02-11-2005, 17:57
People (and I use the term in it's loosest sense here) like Evil Conservative Inc might be the reason the U.S is ever so slightly disliked around the world. Arrogance, ignorance and sheer rudeness combine to form the image of the stereotypical American.
I love it when the first thing a lib does is toss an insult at me. I know I've gotten under his skin already. I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. You do also realize that witless insults like that don't help you. You should have used an insult with substance. Perhaps then I'd have taken you a bit more seriously.
And just in case you thought you were the "good guys", here's a reminder for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_abuse enjoy it! :lol:
I bet you do enjoy it. I'm quite sure you enjoy using the abuse to further your own political agenda.
You should have used an insult with substance. Perhaps then I'd have taken you a bit more seriously.
But we all know that if he'd done that then you would've run away in your usual fashion.
Didnt take very long for this thread to turn ugly ...
Stevinator
03-11-2005, 04:48
Didnt take very long for this thread to turn ugly ...
yeah, I can appreciate a good "ayn rand told you so", but this wasn't the thread for it.
I will give this thread 5 points for good use of the word "asshattery" though.
Stoutwood
03-11-2005, 06:13
I hate Ayn Rand. I blame all of this on her.
Steel_Avatar
03-11-2005, 06:30
On the contrary, Steel, he IS what leftist policies achieve in the truest sense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism). Just because the lefties here don't like having their nose rubbed in it doesn't make it somehow untrue.
I disagree. Yes, he is redistributing land. But it's more of a "KILL WHITEY AND TAKE HIS LAND" than a "SCREW THE RICH" mentality.
Pitboss_2000
03-11-2005, 07:05
I am so leftwing it makes most liberals look like nazis anyway.
SaroDarksbane
03-11-2005, 11:55
yeah, I can appreciate a good "ayn rand told you so", but this wasn't the thread for it.
Sorry, I just saw some striking parallels.
Stevinator
03-11-2005, 13:14
Sorry, I just saw some striking parallels.
Sure, i've read her books. My college english teacher introduced them to me. Ayn Rand made some great arguments, but she was much more extreme than myself.
DurfBarian
04-11-2005, 00:13
On the contrary, Steel, he IS what leftist policies achieve in the truest sense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism). Just because the lefties here don't like having their nose rubbed in it doesn't make it somehow untrue.
Fantastic. So does that mean we get to toss your sorry butt in the same category as Mussolini now? He's the logical extension of your militarist pro-business outlook after all.
Hey everyone look, Smeg is in bed with Hitler!
Insert a big frelling rolleyes here. I'm a lib'rul so I expect someone else to do all my work for me.
Steel_Avatar
04-11-2005, 00:19
Fantastic. So does that mean we get to toss your sorry butt in the same category as Mussolini now? He's the logical extension of your militarist pro-business outlook after all.
Hey everyone look, Smeg is in bed with Hitler!
Insert a big frelling rolleyes here. I'm a lib'rul so I expect someone else to do all my work for me.
:rolleyes:
For you, my socialist fraternal brother!
DurfBarian
04-11-2005, 01:03
Thank you for enabling me while I was being downtrodden. :)
Steel_Avatar
04-11-2005, 01:07
"Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"
The problem with Monty Python is that so many geeks have taken it over as their own, that when a quote truly is appropriate, it just sounds tired and over used :(
DurfBarian
04-11-2005, 02:42
I know what you mean . . . Nowadays tangential references usually work better. Ooh, there's some lovely muck over here!
Ash Housewares
04-11-2005, 02:45
I disagree. Yes, he is redistributing land. But it's more of a "KILL WHITEY AND TAKE HIS LAND" than a "SCREW THE RICH" mentality.
there's a difference?
DaviddeJong
05-11-2005, 14:10
And yes, liberals are quite supportive of gov't-ordered redistribution schemes like the asshattery in question, since you seem to have forgotten your PolySci101.
You're not calling Mugabe a liberal are you now? Mugabe is just a racist dictator; it's pretty hard giving him a "left-or-right" label.
(In Holland the liberals are right-wing by the way.)
David.
Fantastic. So does that mean we get to toss your sorry butt in the same category as Mussolini now? He's the logical extension of your militarist pro-business outlook after all.
Hey everyone look, Smeg is in bed with Hitler!
I'll ignore your smegging feint, so as to avoid your easily visible "well I can't tell you apart" attack. I'm anti-(big)-business, remember? You'll have to do far better than that...
David, Mugabe is hardly a liberal - but he's definitely a leftist. And sadly, many American liberals somehow think that leftists are their natural allies, and that Hitler was somehow a right-winger. But perhaps that's more meat for the thread on fascism...
I'll ignore your smegging feint, so as to avoid your easily visible "well I can't tell you apart" attack. I'm anti-(big)-business, remember? You'll have to do far better than that...
David, Mugabe is hardly a liberal - but he's definitely a leftist. And sadly, many American liberals somehow think that leftists are their natural allies, and that Hitler was somehow a right-winger. But perhaps that's more meat for the thread on fascism...
It's foolish to attempt to apply domestic political definitions to foreign movements. There is no global left and right. Mugabe is a part of a political ideology which (I hope) doesn't exist in the West.
Mugabe is a part of a political ideology which (I hope) doesn't exist in the West.You've been here <how> long? :lol:
Gather around, folks, and prepare to be amazed (http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5427703,00.html)...
HARARE, Zimbabwe (AP) - President Robert Mugabe has said Zimbabwe will process recently discovered uranium deposits in order to resolve its chronic electrical power shortage, state radio said Sunday.
Mugabe, who has close ties with two countries with controversial nuclear programs, Iran and North Korea, made the announcement Saturday, the radio station reported.
It was not clear how Mugabe intended to use any uranium deposits since the country does not have a nuclear power plant.
DurfBarian
22-11-2005, 00:40
"It was not clear how Mugabe intended to use any uranium deposits since the country does not have a nuclear power plant."
I wonder if there are any countries out there that would like to pay him piles of money for that uranium. :teeth:
It was not clear how Mugabe intended to use any uranium deposits since the country does not have a nuclear power plant.
Well thats that sorted - we're off to 'liberate' Zimbarbawe.
And remember folks - just as pesticides are the same as chemical weapons, unrefined uranium is the same as A-Bombs.
Well thats that sorted - we're off to 'liberate' Zimbarbawe.
No shirt, no shoes, no oil... no liberation.
HAMC8112
22-11-2005, 10:04
And sadly, many American liberals somehow think that leftists are their natural allies, and that Hitler was somehow a right-winger. But perhaps that's more meat for the thread on fascism...
I remember posting that Hitler wasnt rightwing but a socialist, people almost burnt the forum down. It seems forgotten now because nobody reacts to your post. (Exept me that is :) )
I remember posting that Hitler wasnt rightwing but a socialist, people almost burnt the forum down. It seems forgotten now because nobody reacts to your post. (Exept me that is :) )
Yeah, it is one of those unpleasant little items that leftists would prefer to forget, like the assorted deaths from Communism.
And remember folks - just as pesticides are the same as chemical weapons, unrefined uranium is the same as A-Bombs.
Sarcasm aside, pesticides have far more feasible uses in 3rd world countries - even if Saddam preferred to keep his in military ammo depots.
Mugabe would be far better off selling his unrefined product, unless someone's decided to give him a pebble bed reactor free of charge. That's what Sudan did with Iraq and assorted others - yellowcake uranium, remember? I find it pretty unlikely that Mugabe can turn a profit by doing the processing himself, since I'm of the impression that purity & so forth are important to the end product.
I remember posting that Hitler wasnt rightwing but a socialist, people almost burnt the forum down. It seems forgotten now because nobody reacts to your post. (Exept me that is :) )
Grrrrrrrr...
Pitboss_2000
22-11-2005, 11:56
Hitler was a national socialist.
HAMC8112
22-11-2005, 12:13
Hitler was a national socialist.
Exactly what i said a couple threads ago and all hell broke loose.
Exactly what i said a couple threads ago and all hell broke loose.
I'd rather have one of the learned left hereabouts correct my impressions of refining uranium and the associated costs (if for no other reason than to try keeping on thread). Does it make any sense for Bobby to refine this stuff himself? Or is he thinking "dirty bomb"?
HAMC8112
22-11-2005, 15:15
Does it make any sense for Bobby to refine this stuff himself? Or is he thinking "dirty bomb"?
I dont really know about what is practical in those matters, however, i wouldnt trust him even when i see him, the man is clearly a maniac.
I dont really know about what is practical in those matters,
Well, I know that yellowcake is definitely worth a penny or two. Iraq isn't the only nation who went sneaking around the Sudan & elsewhere trying to buy it, though I don't know if there's some sort of treaty obligations that raise the price on the "black market" variety.
And no, that's not some sort of racist pun - if Mugabe is planning to process yellowcake, I would bet my bottom $$ that he's not going to worry about any international laws when selling it.
EDIT - can any of the Aussies here help? http://www.uic.com.au/nip01.htm
Exactly what i said a couple threads ago and all hell broke loose.
Where the hell is Ash when you need him?
EDIT - can any of the Aussies here help? http://www.uic.com.au/nip01.htm
I couldn't really tell you any more than is in the article. It's an issue that's come and gone every few years here since the seventies or something. We've got big uranium deposits along with the oil deposits in the northwest shelf, basically Australia's full of natural resources (that's one of the reasons we were called the 'lucky country') which we sell overseas for refining and buy back the finished products. Kind of like, I don't know, a third world country...
But yeah, we've got strong safeguards on who we sell it to. The only terrorists getting their hands on our uranium would be the Bush administration.
My guess would be that he'd sell the raw ore to North Korea and Iran. They are building or have already built refineries (or whatever you call them), right? Still, Mugabe may still have enough sense not to try this when the world's so touchy about this issue, not to mention his domestic policies. Of course, it's not like anyone has the resources or the inclination to try regime change in Zimbabwe right now, so if he thinks the profits will outweigh the losses incurred by sanctions that may not bother him.
HAMC8112
23-11-2005, 00:54
Where the hell is Ash when you need him?
I dont need him, it is bad enough without him. :lol:
buttershug
23-11-2005, 01:23
I'd rather have one of the learned left hereabouts correct my impressions of refining uranium and the associated costs (if for no other reason than to try keeping on thread). Does it make any sense for Bobby to refine this stuff himself? Or is he thinking "dirty bomb"?
Sorting out the isotopes of uranium that you want has to be done "mechanically" because chemically, uranium is uranium. And you can't exactly hand sort individual atoms. I used to know the wieghts of the atoms but can't remember them now.
I don't think just making it pure uranium is enough, it has to be only the right isotope.
But that might be only for weapons.
Wow.
Smeg and J-man, from now on you have no right to claim anyone is resorting to partisanism.
Just...wow. Your political narrowmindedness astounds me.
Wow.
Smeg and J-man, from now on you have no right to claim anyone is resorting to partisanism.
Just...wow. Your political narrowmindedness astounds me.What, that Mugabe is a leftist and so are many Dems, whereas the constant conservative/Nazi comparisons are inaccurate?
But yeah, we've got strong safeguards on who we sell it to. The only terrorists getting their hands on our uranium would be the Bush administration.Cute. Tell it again the next time Shrub plants nailbombs in the Sydney Convention Centre.
My guess would be that he'd sell the raw ore to North Korea and Iran. They are building or have already built refineries (or whatever you call them), right?No, that's what would make sense. He's claiming that he's going to <refine> it. That would mean an easier packaged/transported product sold at a far higher cost, but also what I would expect is a substantial investment in refining technology.
Plus, if it isn't done right, would the end product be of any energy benefit if the refining wasn't done properly, or would it have to be reprocessed? Whereas terror-types don't care what gets stuffed in a dirty bomb.
Cute. Tell it again the next time Shrub plants nailbombs in the Sydney Convention Centre.
How about he tells it to bush the next time Bush orders a few hundred tonnes of depleted uranium dumped on his enemies?
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