View Full Version : BA vs Might merc
For hell baal runs at what point does blessed aim merc become better than might merc for a summoner or viseversa? Assuming I don't have other auras(eg: beast) at what lvl RS and SM does might help more than Blessed aim. I noticed that my AR was ~ the same as my skells. With the might aura my damage was a little under double normal however with the Blessed aim my chance to hit went over double my normal %...so BA > might in this case, yes?
For regular gameplay I can't notice a difference between the two in terms of killing speed.
Killing baal relies so heavily on my mercs (and IG's) Crushing blow and not normal damage ,hitting more often FAR outweighs doing more regular hit damage, yes? Anyone have input...I'm not sure which to use until I get fanat....
I guess once the AR gets to 95% to hit baal with BA it would make sense to switch to might...yes? What slvl would that be for RS, SM and mostly clvl for merc?
MadBengerman
03-11-2005, 22:39
I never really use blessad aim mercs, they are good if you are having trouble hitting stuff at low levels, but at a higher level your skeletons shouldn't really have a problem hitting stuff, so I'd say to go with a might merc :thumbsup:
Mad Mantis
04-11-2005, 10:37
For hell baal runs at what point does blessed aim merc become better than might merc for a summoner or viseversa?
It doesn't. We recently found out that Skellie AR was very much higher than we thought. Might > BA.
It doesn't. We recently found out that Skellie AR was very much higher than we thought. Might > BA.
Higher than it's listed value? Thanks for the reply btw
Mad Mantis
04-11-2005, 20:32
Higher than it's listed value?
Yep. You can use this calculator (http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~gottwald/necro_pet_calculator.html) to figure it out.
Yep. You can use this calculator (http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~gottwald/necro_pet_calculator.html) to figure it out.
perfect, thank you
Wow, so Arm of king leoric gives more dps than beast for a summoner...
So my question now: Is there a skeleton to-hit calculator or another calculator that can take conviction into account with total dps between skels and mages(against act5 hell average monster) vs concentration total dps with skels and mages?
I guess the simpler question is what's the most powerful combination of auras for a summoner?
That would be a job for Necrochild313 and his skellie calcskills. :uhhuh:
Mad Mantis
05-11-2005, 16:08
So my question now: Is there a skeleton to-hit calculator or another calculator that can take conviction into account with total dps between skels and mages(against act5 hell average monster) vs concentration total dps with skels and mages?
This is going to be a long post with lots of figures. If you are allergic to either I suggest you refrain from reading. I take no responsibility for any brain damage or other defects that are a result from you reading my post. Complaining will result in a swift whack with the Ban-Stick™.
For this calculation we'll be using a level 80 Necro using Amp as his main curse accompanied by a level 80 Might Merc. This will be a best-case scenario where all the equipment is perfect. For easy of calculation we'll assume that there are an equal number of Fire and Lightning Mages. These two types of Mages are the most damaging of the set and you do need some variation in the army.
Let's meet the monster we'll be beating to a bloody pulp shall we? His name is Reakk and he is a special type of Venom Lord. Special in that I can change his resistances to suit my needs. Reakk is a big bruiser so he has 11375 Hit Points and 1597 Defense. The highest available for a Venom Lord.
First Test
The first set of calculations will be done at level 20/20/20 SM/RS/Mages. Reakk is not feeling very well so his resistances will be 0% for everything. This will teach him not to drink too much before a big fight.
Conviction
Our first set of Mindless Murderers will be under the influence of a Level 12 Conviction aura. This will cause Reakk's defense to fall to 271.49. His resistances are -85% for all Elemental Resists and -100% for Physical Resist. He is not feeling very well.
Our Mindless Murderers tote the following stats:
Skeleton
Hit Points: 1919
AR: 3824
Damage: 233 - 237 (ø235)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 8
Mage
Hit Points: 619
Fire Damage: 121 - 125 (ø123)
Lightning Damage: 29 - 196 (ø112)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 8
If we take into account all the stat changes and let our Mindless Murderers loose on Reakk the Skeletons will have a 91% chance to hit Reakk and they will do 466 - 474 (ø470) damage. The Mages will do 223 - 231 (ø227) and 53 - 362 (ø207.5) damage. This means that the Skellies will have an Average DPS of 2592 and the Mages will have an Average DPS of 1316.
Concentration
Our second set of Mindless Murderers will be under the influence of a Level 20 Concentration aura. This doesn't affect Reakk in the least and he's feeling lucky.
Our Mindless Murderers tote the following stats:
Skeleton
Hit Points: 1919
AR: 3824
Damage: 233 - 237 (ø235)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 8
Mage
Hit Points: 619
Fire Damage: 121 - 125 (ø123)
Lightning Damage: 29 - 196 (ø112)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 8
If we take into account all the stat changes and let our Mindless Murderers loose on Reakk the Skeletons will have a 68% chance to hit Reakk and they will do 858 - 874 (ø866) damage. The Mages will do 121 - 125 (ø123) and 29 - 196 (ø112) damage. This means that the Skellies will have an Average DPS of 3568 and the Mages will have an Average DPS of 712.
Conclusion
In this set it is clear that the Concentration aura is the better choice.
Second Test
The second set of calculations will be done at level 20/20/20 SM/RS/Mages. Reakk is beginning to feel better, despite his injuries. His Demonic Doctor has pumped him full of meds so his resistances will be 50% for everything. This will teach him to take drugs before a big fight.
Conviction
Our first set of Mindless Murderers will be under the influence of a Level 12 Conviction aura. This will cause Reakk's defense to fall to 271.49. His resistances are -35% for all Elemental Resists and -50% for Physical Resist.
Our Mindless Murderers tote the following stats:
Skeleton
Hit Points: 1919
AR: 3824
Damage: 233 - 237 (ø235)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 8
Mage
Hit Points: 619
Fire Damage: 121 - 125 (ø123)
Lightning Damage: 29 - 196 (ø112)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 8
If we take into account all the stat changes and let our Mindless Murderers loose on Reakk the Skeletons will have a 91% chance to hit Reakk and they will do 349 - 355 (ø352) damage. The Mages will do 163 - 168 (ø165) and 40 - 132 (ø86) damage. This means that the Skellies will have an Average DPS of 1941 and the Mages will have an Average DPS of 760.
Concentration
Our second set of Mindless Murderers will be under the influence of a Level 20 Concentration aura. This doesn't affect Reakk in the least and he's feeling lucky.
Our Mindless Murderers tote the following stats:
Skeleton
Hit Points: 1919
AR: 3824
Damage: 233 - 237 (ø235)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 8
Mage
Hit Points: 619
Fire Damage: 121 - 125 (ø123)
Lightning Damage: 29 - 196 (ø112)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 8
If we take into account all the stat changes and let our Mindless Murderers loose on Reakk the Skeletons will have a 68% chance to hit Reakk and they will do 643 - 655 (ø649) damage. The Mages will do 60 - 62 (ø61) and 14 - 98 (ø56) damage. This means that the Skellies will have an Average DPS of 2674 and the Mages will have an Average DPS of 354.
Conclusion
In this set it is clear that the Concentration aura is again the better choice.
Third Test
The third set of calculations will be done at level 30/30/30 SM/RS/Mages. Reakk is having some emotional problems as a result of the frequent beatings and he is feeling vulnerable. So his resistances will be 0% for everything. This will teach him to cry before a big fight.
Conviction
Our first set of Deceased Destroyers will be under the influence of a Level 12 Conviction aura. This will cause Reakk's defense to fall to 271.49. His resistances are -85% for all Elemental Resists and -100% for Physical Resist. He is not feeling very well.
Our Deceased Destroyers tote the following stats:
Skeleton
Hit Points: 4089
AR: 4124
Damage: 512 - 517 (ø514)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 12
Mage
Hit Points: 1049
Fire Damage: 256 - 260 (ø258)
Lightning Damage: 44 - 406 (ø225)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 12
If we take into account all the stat changes and let our Deceased Destroyers loose on Reakk the Skeletons will have a 91% chance to hit Reakk and they will do 1024 - 1034 (ø1029) damage. The Mages will do 473 - 481 (ø477) and 81 - 751 (ø416) damage. This means that the Skellies will have an Average DPS of 8512 and the Mages will have an Average DPS of 4059.
Concentration
Our second set of Deceased Destroyers will be under the influence of a Level 20 Concentration aura. This doesn't affect Reakk in the least and he's feeling lucky.
Our Deceased Destroyers tote the following stats:
Skeleton
Hit Points: 4089
AR: 4124
Damage: 512 - 517 (ø514)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 12
Mage
Hit Points: 1049
Fire Damage: 256 - 260 (ø258)
Lightning Damage: 44 - 406 (ø225)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 12
If we take into account all the stat changes and let our Deceased Destroyers loose on Reakk the Skeletons will have a 70% chance to hit Reakk and they will do 1762 - 1778 (ø1770) damage. The Mages will do 256 - 260 (ø258) and 44 - 406 (ø225) damage. This means that the Skellies will have an Average DPS of 11263 and the Mages will have an Average DPS of 2195.
Conclusion
In this set it is clear that once again Concentration aura is the better choice.
Fourth Test
The fourth set of calculations will be done at level 30/30/30 SM/RS/Mages. Reakk has been seeing his Phantasmic Psychiatrist about his problems and has been given yet another large doses of drugs. Feeling totally numb as a side effect of the drugs his resistances will be 50% for everything. This will teach him to medicate before a big fight.
Conviction
Our first set of Deceased Destroyers will be under the influence of a Level 12 Conviction aura. This will cause Reakk's defense to fall to 271.49. His resistances are -35% for all Elemental Resists and -50% for Physical Resist.
Our Deceased Destroyers tote the following stats:
Skeleton
Hit Points: 4089
AR: 4124
Damage: 512 - 517 (ø514)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 12
Mage
Hit Points: 1049
Fire Damage: 256 - 260 (ø258)
Lightning Damage: 44 - 406 (ø225)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 12
If we take into account all the stat changes and let our Deceased Destroyers loose on Reakk the Skeletons will have a 91% chance to hit Reakk and they will do 768 - 775 (ø771) damage. The Mages will do 473 - 481 (ø477) and 81 - 751 (ø416) damage. This means that the Skellies will have an Average DPS of 6378 and the Mages will have an Average DPS of 4059.
Concentration
Our second set of Deceased Destroyers will be under the influence of a Level 20 Conviction aura. This doesn't affect Reakk in the least and he's feeling lucky.
Our Deceased Destroyers tote the following stats:
Skeleton
Hit Points: 4089
AR: 4124
Damage: 512 - 517 (ø514)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 12
Mage
Hit Points: 1049
Fire Damage: 256 - 260 (ø258)
Lightning Damage: 44 - 406 (ø225)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 12
If we take into account all the stat changes and let our Deceased Destroyers loose on Reakk the Skeletons will have a 70% chance to hit Reakk and they will do 1321 - 1333 (ø1327) damage. The Mages will do 128 - 130 (ø129) and 22 - 203 (ø112) damage. This means that the Skellies will have an Average DPS of 8444 and the Mages will have an Average DPS of 1095.
Conclusion
In this set it is clear that yet again Concentration aura is the better choice.
Final Conclusion
It is clear that Concentration is the better aura for anything but high levels of Mages coupled with a Monster with high Physical Resists. Of course once you factor in CE things change and Conviction is the better aura for everything.
Crap, I totally underestimate how much work this was. Not funny.
*whistles innocently*
Pit/Venom Lord (A4), Pit Lord (A5):
Mlvl 85
Ladder Non-ladder
Life: 12,982-15,455 Life: 9,737-11,592
Def: 1,898 Def: 1,613
Mlvl 88 (minion)
Life: 20,559-24,475 Life: 15,418-18,355
Def: 1,959 Def: 1,665
Minion of Ventar:
Mlvl 88
Life: 29,371-34,266 Life: 22,027-25,698
Def: 1,704 Def: 1,448
Integer math on the defense reduction btw.
This is going to be a long post with lots of figures. If you are allergic to either I suggest you refrain from reading. I take no responsibility for any brain damage or other defects that are a result from you reading my post. Complaining will result in a swift whack with the Ban-Stick™.
Fourth Test
The fourth set of calculations will be done at level 30/30/30 SM/RS/Mages. Reakk has been seeing his Phantasmic Psychiatrist about his problems and has been given yet another large doses of drugs. Feeling totally numb as a side effect of the drugs his resistances will be 50% for everything. This will teach him to medicate before a big fight.
Conviction
Our first set of Deceased Destroyers will be under the influence of a Level 12 Conviction aura. This will cause Reakk's defense to fall to 271.49. His resistances are -35% for all Elemental Resists and -50% for Physical Resist.
Our Deceased Destroyers tote the following stats:
Skeleton
Hit Points: 4089
AR: 4124
Damage: 512 - 517 (ø514)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 12
Mage
Hit Points: 1049
Fire Damage: 256 - 260 (ø258)
Lightning Damage: 44 - 406 (ø225)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 12
If we take into account all the stat changes and let our Deceased Destroyers loose on Reakk the Skeletons will have a 91% chance to hit Reakk and they will do 768 - 775 (ø771) damage. The Mages will do 473 - 481 (ø477) and 81 - 751 (ø416) damage. This means that the Skellies will have an Average DPS of 6378 and the Mages will have an Average DPS of 4059.
Concentration
Our second set of Deceased Destroyers will be under the influence of a Level 20 Conviction aura. This doesn't affect Reakk in the least and he's feeling lucky.
Our Deceased Destroyers tote the following stats:
Skeleton
Hit Points: 4089
AR: 4124
Damage: 512 - 517 (ø514)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 12
Mage
Hit Points: 1049
Fire Damage: 256 - 260 (ø258)
Lightning Damage: 44 - 406 (ø225)
Attack Frames: 18
Number of minions: 12
If we take into account all the stat changes and let our Deceased Destroyers loose on Reakk the Skeletons will have a 70% chance to hit Reakk and they will do 1321 - 1333 (ø1327) damage. The Mages will do 128 - 130 (ø129) and 22 - 203 (ø112) damage. This means that the Skellies will have an Average DPS of 8444 and the Mages will have an Average DPS of 1095.
Conclusion
In this set it is clear that yet again Concentration aura is the better choice.
Final Conclusion
It is clear that Concentration is the better aura. Of course once you factor in CE things change and Conviction is the better aura.
Crap, I totally underestimate how much work this was. Not funny.
Thanks for the help Mad Mantis but...
For this last example is the total DPS of Conviction not greater than that of Concentration?
WilcodenBrok
06-11-2005, 08:49
The thing is: How do you get those aura's? Because when you mention concentrate you can get it with "pride" runeword. But the same runewords gives freeze! So that is really bad for a necro.......
In think a the best combination is :
- Beast
- Might merc
- Merc weapon: eth obedience.
Mad Mantis
06-11-2005, 11:48
*whistles innocently*
Pit/Venom Lord (A4), Pit Lord (A5):
Mlvl 85
Ladder Non-ladder
Life: 12,982-15,455 Life: 9,737-11,592
Def: 1,898 Def: 1,613
Mlvl 88 (minion)
Life: 20,559-24,475 Life: 15,418-18,355
Def: 1,959 Def: 1,665
Minion of Ventar:
Mlvl 88
Life: 29,371-34,266 Life: 22,027-25,698
Def: 1,704 Def: 1,448
Crap. Do you know of a good bestiary? Still, the calculation is valid.
Integer math on the defense reduction btw.
Did use integer math while doing the calculations. Let the number stand in the text for some reason.
For this last example is the total DPS of Conviction not greater than that of Concentration?
Yes. My mistake. I had been doing calculations for a rather long while and constantly typing Concentration. I'll go change it in my post.
Because when you mention concentrate you can get it with "pride" runeword. But the same runewords gives freeze! So that is really bad for a necro.......
It only gives Freeze on the kills made by the Merc. With this combination of runewords and the size of this army the Merc won't get a lot of kills so the loss of corpses is minimal.
Crap. Do you know of a good bestiary? Still, the calculation is valid.
Never seen a Bestiary that did minion stats, these I just quickly calced.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.