View Full Version : Skills wasted on bowazon
Hi guys.
I am now lvl 87 or so. I got pure 20 Guided arrow, 10 multi, 20 Freezing Arrow, 20 critical strike, 15 Valkyre, some penetrate. I havent left any skills.
Now: What u think? At PI monsters i take FA, but it doesnt help a lot. With my wf i can do any siuation, but i want a "perfect" skilled ama. I dont think I have.
Would it be better: 10 multi, 20 Magic Arrow, 20 critical strike, 17 Valkyre, 20 Penetrate, 4 Pierce (+raizortail), did i leave something ?
With some +skills (shako, charms, amu, etc) magical arrow does good magic dmg i think. Or do i need guided for bosses.
What u think?
Is my skills distribution o.k. ?
I read, that fire arrow has a bug, and it converts all dmg to magic dmg. ist that true ?
because then i would make such a bowzon:
1 fire arrow
15 multi
20 vally
20 critical strike
20 penetrate
1 strafe for bosses?
and some evade,... passives.
help me fast pls, im just thinking about restart
Omikron8
18-10-2005, 23:35
1st problem: Maxed Guided
Leave GA at one point, max strafe it is infinitely better than GA against single targets/bosses due to 7 minimum arrows at level 20
2nd problem: Maxed MA
Leave MA at one point, get an upgraded witchwild string on switch or atma's amulet or a reaper's toll on a merc
3rd problem: Maxed Critical Strike
Unless this is pvp this is totally not necessary to get critical above 55 or 60% in pvm, put your points else like penetrate
4th problem: You need more penetrate
Maxed penetrate is an absolute must unless 1) you are using faith bow 2) havea high level enchant on you 3) using goldstrike/eaglehorn. Even with 400+ dex and dual ravens you will have a crappy chance to hit in hell without high levels of penetrate
What i am trying to say is that MA (the skill itself on a zon) and GA don't belong in 1.10/1.11 pvm for a bowazon
One other comment, the last thing that a pvm bowazon should care about is +skill items (except for titans on switch) so shako is a very bad helm choice or any jewelry that provides +skills. Tal's mask/andy's visage for the win.
I read, that fire arrow has a bug, and it converts all dmg to magic dmg. ist that true ?I have never heard this.
As for your original skills, I think you are doing a heck of a job getting to lvl 87 with the skills you have outlined, and I can see why you might be a little disappointed in her killing speed. With bowies, I like to get one physical and one elemental attack. Your multi is fine as a physical attack, though most people with a WF usually use strafe.
The 20 pt investment in guided is not recommended past 1.09 because guided no longer pierces. Those points could have been spent in cold arrow, which would significantly boost the damage done by FA. This is the route taken by "Frostmaidens" - check out the stickied guide by Freyas for more details.
With the 20 from guided into CA and 10-15 multi, you have both physical and 1 elemental attack. The extra 20 spent to get MA is also a bit of a waste in my opinion because, unless you are exclusively solo, you don't really need a third attack type. You could have chosen to break phys immunes with a switch wand or WWS (which has amp and slvl20 MA for free) or a Reapers on the merc.
For me, I strafe bosses, and have never liked what I got out of guided for them - it just seems to take so long. You have got the WF already, which I would kill to have. I would remake a strafer with it, and use either FA (20 FA, 20 CA) or LF (23 pts for LF and pre-reqs) as a secondary attack. As for how to make a strafer, check out the stickied guides because to be "perfect" as you wish, you reallly need to hit the right IAS break points.
Good luck,
DudSpud
twelvebagger
19-10-2005, 06:23
1st problem:
What i am trying to say is that MA (the skill itself on a zon) and GA don't belong in 1.10/1.11 pvm for a bowazon
I think this is the first time I've disagreed with Omikron :)
I do think guided is useful and has a place in pvm, without a doubt. It's great for getting around corners and hitting things off the screen when you need to refill the mana bulb.
Consider though, that I do tend to make odd builds. Currently using a max guide (I like it but I I can't argue it as being a smart choice), max multishot zon and absolutely love her.
Atmas scarab ammy for phys and she has little problems almost anywhere. Very good at clearing out the matrons den as well :)
Peregrine
19-10-2005, 07:26
1) The fire arrow thing was a bug in .09, where it converted 100% of your damage to fire damage. It was an amazing skill for physical immunes. It has been fixed since .10, and now converts a percentage of your damage to fire damage based on how many points you invest (and is therefore not worth using anymore).
2) You've way overspent in critical strike. The diminishing returns make 20 points a complete waste.
3) You should never use guided unless you're pvp. Strafe is infinitely better in all circumstances.
4) Freezing arrow will kill slowly unless you have its synergy maxed for more damage. I suggest remaking, and taking the points out of valkyrie and some out of critical strike to get it.
5) Valkyrie is probably over-spent. I find a even a level 5 or so valkyrie (counting + skills) lasts plenty of time, especially if you're using freezing arrows.
im no expert on bowazons. BUT
this is what i recommend
max straffe
1-10 in multi, depending on preference and +skills.
1 in guided
lvl 17 valk with gear
max penetrate or close to.
1 in pierce
maybe 5 in crit strike, remember deadly strike and crit strike dont stack, you will only ever do double damage once per shot, you cant guadruple your damage.
1 in each dodge, more for ranged one and the one when your moving if you find your getting hit.
thats what, 60-65 skills? so say lvl 54 thats achievable.
if you go for same lvl that leaves you to get a reasonable amount in freezing arrow and the +% damage synergie (the other one is useless)
just my 0.02
bigru
So what u think of that?
Multi 10
Strafe 1 for boss (i should get lvl 5 with +skills)
Cold Arrow 20
Freezing Arrow 20
Critical 1 (i should get lvl 5 with +skills for about 42%)
with my crushing blow of about 40 % i might have good chance to get one or the other active.
Penetrate 20
Pierce 1 (i should get lvl 5 with +skills for 55% / +raizortail=88 %)
dodge 1
avoid 1
evade 1
valcyre 6 (i should get lvl 10 with +skills)
if I was right, thats about 86 skills
btw, im playin non-ladder.
so the witchwild string guide isnt intressting for me. i cant upgrade it.
I use shako because of: huge life and mana bonus. so i can focus on pure dex.
the +2 skills are good for the passives i think. i dont have to invest more points into evade/avoid/dodge and pierce.
Dont u think thats worth it ?
citybird
19-10-2005, 15:40
even without the upgrade a perf/near perf WWS is viable in hell. I just upgraded mine after playing around in hell for about 3 weeks. It took me forever to get a pul rune.
If I had a windforce I would max Strafe, max Magic, stock up on one of the elements in charms and items. Then I would try to find as many passive skill charms as possible to bump up my valk and decoy. This would also save me points in D/A/E and pierce. I would hope for about 5 or 6 +points in passive.
Harmony on switch for Valk prebuff and viggor for when i had to run for it.
Too bad MA doesn't have a synergy I wish it did. Then finding +skill items would pay off even better. But as it is I am sure I would be able to live with a lvl 22 or 23 MA comming from a WF. It would be like having a hammerdin that could aim ;)
Peregrine
19-10-2005, 18:56
Strafe 1 for boss (i should get lvl 5 with +skills)
No. You need to max it if you want it to be useful. Strafe fires a minimum number of arrows, based on how many skill points you have. A level 1 strafe will only fire a single arrow, and is therefore useless against a single target. At level 20, it will fire the full 10 (or is it 7? I forget) even if there's just one target available.
Max strafe depends on skill level
Max = 4+slvl, capped at 10 arrows
Min strafe arrows is 2+(slvl/4)
Min arrows at slvl20 = 7
As for using Harley for an FA zon - sure, it's OK - it'll boost all of your passives and boost the damage for FA (and the mana...). Me, I use it on my bowies with LF as second attack.
Oh, and I also keep +3 passive circlet/gloves/ammy in stash to pre-buff the valk.
Good luck,
DudSpud
@Peregrine: Dont you read my posts?
I said i will have +skill items. Then strafe would be about lvl 6.
That means, up to 10 targets and +30% dmg.
So it is not 1 arrow. Except the +70 % dmg missing to lvl 20, is there another differenz between 6 and 20 ?
I want to use Multi Arrow, I like it more than strafe. with my equipment right now, i am killing really really fast except the imunes. But i want to kill them effectly. I dont want to waste time for them.
My problem is i got guided arrow. but its physical too.
so the frozen arrow thing might be ok. there will go 40 points into it, but i think it might be ok.
btw: only 1 arrow of multi can hit a target right? its impossible that 2 arrows can hit the same target. So why max multi. i think 10 (+skills) is enough.
and vallcyre lvl 10 is low, but with my asskicking merc, it will be ok i think. merc is an killing machine, and vally a little tank.
i think i will restart my ama like this:
Magic Arrow: 1
Multi Arrow: 10
Guided Arrow: 1
Strafe: 1+
Cold Arrow: 20
Freezing Arrow: 20
Bow and Crossbow Skills: 53 Skills
Inner Sight: 1
Slow Missles: 1
Decoy: 1
Valkyrie: 10
Dodge: 1
Avoid: 1
Evade: 1
Critical Strike: 1
Penetrate: 20
Pierce: 1
Passive and Magic Skills: 38 Skills
All toegether: 91 Skills
When there are 110 Skills available (am i right?), you got all your skills at lvl 79. Then I will boost Strafe and Valkyrie.
First 10 Point multi. Then Cold Arrow, Penetrate until 30. Then 1 into freezing arrow and 10 into Valkyrie.
What is your opinion?
Peregrine
20-10-2005, 19:36
@Peregrine: Dont you read my posts?
I said i will have +skill items. Then strafe would be about lvl 6.
That means, up to 10 targets and +30% dmg.
So it is not 1 arrow. Except the +70 % dmg missing to lvl 20, is there another differenz between 6 and 20 ?
Don't you read mine? I was talking about the minimum arrows fired. At level 6, you only have 3 arrow minimum. Against a single target (the bosses you want to kill), you will only fire three shots. You'll only get the full 10 arrows if there are 7 other targets to shoot at.
Strafe is the best boss killer because at lvl 20, you're firing 7 arrows at 2 frames each, all aimed at the same target. So you're hitting much faster than any other skilll. But you lose this advantage if you don't max it.
Personally i'd rather use WWS on other characters than a zon. WWS is a very unique bow since it provides a melee character safe means to kill some nasty critters, especially manaburn PI's.
With WF as main weapon and no other items to help dealing with PI's it all comes down to FA vs MA. For me the rule is if high damage bow = MA, if low dmg bow = FA. My WF strafer uses MA and it works great as PI and boss killer. Also this skill rocks vs manaburns. MA = gg Baal 8 players solo, after some running around of course :p . Also since WF has inbuilt knockback i don't really miss not having FA.
That sounds good. I dont want to invest 40 points into FA.
So the wws thing i will try out with my currently ama. And then I will chosse. MA or WWS.
With Windforce you would take strafe, right ?
I want to use Multi. I think its much more fun …
So my skills will be like that (4th reskilling :) ):
Magic Arrow: 20
Multi Arrow: 10
Cold Arrow: 1
Guided Arrow: 1
Strafe: 20
Bow and Crossbow Skills: 52 Skills
Inner Sight: 1
Slow Missles: 1
Decoy: 1
Valkyrie: 15
Dodge: 1
Avoid: 1
Evade: 1
Critical Strike: 8+
Penetrate: 20
Pierce: 1
Passive and Magic Skills: 50 Skills
All toegether: 102 skills. Then I must be lvl 90 for all skills. After that I take rest to critical strike.
So I got Magic Arrow for Imunes.
So I got Multi or Strafe for Playing, I can change playing style.
So I got Strafe for Bosses.
I think that will be my ultimate ama.
?
Anelka,sorry but I had to delete your two last posts. We do not alloow bumping here. You must wait for someone to reply to your topic. Bumping is unfair because it puts your thread back at the top and buries other threads. If people think your thread is worthy of a reply, it will come. Be patient.
Since you're new here, I will let it pass, but please review the rules (http://forums.diabloii.net/rules/) of this forum.
With Windforce you would take strafe, right ?
Yes, with WF I would use strafe.
I want to use Multi. I think its much more fun …
It’s your choice. Multi is a viable skill.
Some advice on skills:
Pick Strafe OR Multi and stick to it. Strafe 20. Multi 1-X (being X = enough to shoot a minimum of 10 arrows with + skills). Most Multizons go for a number of arrows that ranges between 10 and 15. Personally, I find 10 arrows enough.
A minimum of 17 with +skills on Valk. This will allow her to access the best spears. If you want a really strong Valk max it and if you still have some points left put them in Decoy to increase her life/resists.
Critical Strike 11 with +skills (58%). This is my personal preference based on how diminishing returns works. You may want more or less points here. It’s your character.
1 in Pierce is a poor choice. Pierce will make a huge difference in your damage output. Imagine you have 5 monsters in a straight line. With high level Pierce you’ll have a huge chance of hitting them all with only 1 arrow. Without pierce that same arrow would hit only 1 of these 5 monsters. I like to have Pierce 14 with +skills (79%). Again, this is based on diminishing returns. When using razortail, I like Pierce 8 with + skills (98%). Max pierce is 100%.
The rest of your skill point allocation seems good and remember it’s your character. Build it as you like :thumbsup:
Humphrey
23-10-2005, 01:37
Pick Strafe OR Multi and stick to it.
My strafer had enough points left to max multishot as well, so it's possible to use both. But I wouldn't use both and max magic arrow, I'd prefer to put more points into valk, D/A/E, crit strike and pierce. D/A/E are useful, as you will have no shield. Nice for gloams I find.
My strafer had enough points left to max multishot as well, so it's possible to use both.
You're right, but i never told it wasn't possible to max both on the same build.
But I wouldn't use both and max magic arrow, I'd prefer to put more points into valk, D/A/E, crit strike and pierce.
This is exactly what i meant by "Pick one".
D/A/E are useful, as you will have no shield. Nice for gloams I find.
Agreed. Also, it's nice to have more than 1 hard point in these skills, in order to improve the valk.
I now saw the Cold Arrow!
It has at lvl 20: 41% of physical damage is converted to elemental dmg.
Magic arrow has a 20% of physical damage is converted to magic dmg.
So for the physical immunes shouldnet i max cold arrow? And only cold arrow without Freezing arrow.
What dou you think ? Is it effective ?????????????????
My new AMA is now 79. And i have left some points for the "imunes skills" !!
I dont want to spend it, and then its crap.
With windforce the cold arrow would do good dmg, doesnt it
I don't get it. Why use CA vs immunes? FA & MA are both better suited for this at least that's what i think.
FA (much higher cold damage plus freeze has area of effect)
MA (many monsters are cold immune/resistant but only a few are immune/resist magic damage)
Peregrine
23-10-2005, 22:43
I don't get it. Why use CA vs immunes? FA & MA are both better suited for this at least that's what i think.
FA (much higher cold damage plus freeze has area of effect)
MA (many monsters are cold immune/resistant but only a few are immune/resist magic damage)
Because it converts a percentage of your physical damage to cold damage. And it converts twice as much as magic arrow. Freezing arrow doesn't do this, so takes 40 skill points and uses up mana at an insane rate. FA is amazing in most cases... vs. physical immunes isn't one of them.
Because it converts a percentage of your physical damage to cold damage. And it converts twice as much as magic arrow. Freezing arrow doesn't do this, so takes 40 skill points and uses up mana at an insane rate. FA is amazing in most cases... vs. physical immunes isn't one of them.
All right, i get your point. Versus PI CA>FA. Then it all comes down to CA vs MA. CA will have twice the damage of MA vs PI. But it will be harder to resist MA damage. So this is a matter of personal choice. I still like MA better because it's like having a ranged berserk with 1/5 damage and no mana cost.
I now think I will do fire arrow =)
Most physical imunes i see, are physical imune and cold imune, when they get two imunities.
The freeze effect i dont need. In hell its what? Without ice arrow and other synergies: 0,5 secs ? My merc and my ama are good enough to tank. Except these maybe imune blood lords. but they run over everything.
If they are magic imune I will take my physical damage, of course.
@Peregrine: Did you ever try that? Cold arrow or fire arrow against act 5 imunes? Is it effective? Does it really converts the physical damage of my arrow? Or does it converst only a much lower percentage because of any calculation...
If not, I am sure to make a fire arrow.
I got 20 skills left now, so it would be maxed in 5 secs. =)
If its a failure please tell me. Dont want to start my 4th ama in 1 month.
Peregrine
24-10-2005, 20:39
The freeze effect i dont need. In hell its what? Without ice arrow and other synergies: 0,5 secs ?
Nope. Cold arrow doesn't freeze anything, but at level 30 on my test character, it keeps them chilled for 40 seconds. So 10 seconds in hell.
@Peregrine: Did you ever try that? Cold arrow or fire arrow against act 5 imunes? Is it effective? Does it really converts the physical damage of my arrow? Or does it converst only a much lower percentage because of any calculation...
Yes, it really converts that much. I'm not actually sure about cold arrow, now that I've looked at it again. The skill description SAYS it does half normal damage, but the damage on the character screen doesn't go down. Fire arrow is listed as full, and does full like expected.
And no, I haven't tried it myself. The only character I've played in hell often enough has maxed freezing arrow + synergy, so any of the skills we're talking about are kind of obsolete.
I just maxed fire arrow!
Its great!!! 1 pt into explosive arrow for nice synergiy dmg with +skills.
i have to try it sometimes. then i will see...
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