Viable All-Around PvP?

[masterazn]

This is essentially the ultimate question for PvP.

All the guides claim their class is the best at all around pvp. I want to know what you think personally from experience. What character build makes the best PVP all around?

I am currently thinking of making a classic lightning sorc (TS + nova). Any suggestions? I am not rich at all, I have very little gear and I will be dueling people just as poor as me (ie, not lots of resists).

[Qbi]

This is essentially the ultimate question for PvP.

All the guides claim their class is the best at all around pvp. I want to know what you think personally from experience. What character build makes the best PVP all around?

I am currently thinking of making a classic lightning sorc (TS + nova). Any suggestions? I am not rich at all, I have very little gear and I will be dueling people just as poor as me (ie, not lots of resists).

Okay, well im going to ignore your poorness for this post, but from experience I'd say barbs would have to be the ultimate duelers, then the light sorcs, and lastly the hammerdins, not just any paladin build, the hammerdin.
Any person that knows what their doing, and I mean REALLY knows what their doing, can make the Ultimate Barbarian that can kill just about ANYTHING.
One thing you've got to remember though is that, in Diablo 2 there is always one class that couter-acts the other.
Example: most sorceresses would lose to a trap-assasin, most bow zons would lose to a paladin or necromancer and it just goes on like that... it just depends on class, but from experience i'd say that Barbs can take alot of damage and dish out just as much.
Thats just me though.

[Kaffe]

On the contrary, I would say that any class would make an excellent dueller.

The class that I still feel has the most flexible, yet easy to learn, set-up and playing style is the trapsin. Once you learn how, and when to Mind Blast and how to set up Traps so that you can shift between defense, offense and stun locking there's pretty much no one who stands a chance.

The fun thing with Trapsins is that they don't really need the almight enigma, they're anti-porters as it is. They don't have a hard time capping either resistances or to get a healthy dose of fr/w.

Gear-wise, you can get by on the cheap gear. Wiz + Guardian Angel is a good combo vs. elementals. And it's a lot cheaper than HoTo + Enigma. You can manage the damage drop, if you aim for slightly more FCR (stealth or viperskin) and thus a better Mind Blast.

Barbs can be very expensive. Well, most of their gear is about tweaking it. But Armor and Weapon can cost you an arm or two.

What I found, however, in this process is that if you stick with your build, learn it and start doing well you can take on damn near everyone. You just have to realise that you can't win them all. If you're good enough, you can, but you most likely won't until your that good.

TS/Nova doesn't look very good to me either, btw. Orb still looks more intruiging to me, and Blizzard also seems rather nice.

[mastermind]

hmm any type of class build can be great all round duellers but i would say a barb (Whirlwind) and pala (Smiter) can deal with most build porperly. If ur a barb as long as u have different set of equipment in ur stash to change to fight certain opponents, res equipment, enigma for tele fights certain belts or weaps to change to ul be fine, i even stash and use a widow maker for some duels which comes in handy :).

But i think being flexible in terms of equipment and skill really makes a difference to how ogod u are all round

Also i have seen very dangerous builds in dueling such as a hammerdin/ Foh hybrid build or other good hybrid builds which are more dnagerous because of the flexibility of having 2 atacks to choose from instead of 1 main attack which may not work to well against another setup.

[mastermind]

that a good point mentioned, they are alot of anti builds i have also came across in dueling, i.e sorcs with max dr, max block rate as well as energy shield users making it hard to hit or dmg them while they can dish out alot of fireball, ice or light dmg on u.

Same setup for a good nec which wont to be anti mele they will prolly have max block, max dr and still use bone armour meaning that dmg is reduced alot, while they use bone spirit and bonewall and maytbe decrypt makng this duel almost impossible to win for good mele chars

[masterazn]

let's say i just got lucky 5 minutes ago and found the grandfather off of pindleskin. Okay, i know this sword is so 1.09...is it any good in 1.11 now? Or is it absolute crap because of BotD

[Kaffe]

let's say i just got lucky 5 minutes ago and found the grandfather off of pindleskin. Okay, i know this sword is so 1.09...is it any good in 1.11 now? Or is it absolute crap because of BotD

No, not really. Don't think it will hit the WW breakpoint though.

BotD isn't the absolutely best WW weapon either, as I understand. Highly popular, but Beast rates fairly high, or a mix.

IMHO, barbs are insanely expensive. Especially since 1.10 and up is designed mostly for casters.

If you want cheap, go for a caster. You can probably pull of any full-synnergy caster on this set-up.

- Peasant Crown
- Wizardspike
- Skin of the Vipermagi. Other armors of fair quality and price are: Shaft, Guardian Angel, Stealth armor (can still represent a truckload of life for the tweaker, not enigma, but still).
- Spirit Runeworded Shield (any shield will do, other options are lidless, whitstan's, mosers, etc)
- <Insert Belt>. Just about any belt will do. Trang's and Gloomstrap. Even cheaper? Go Nightsmoke or even Lenymo. Snowclash would be deasant for sorc (str heavy for some though).
- Frostburn / Magefists.
- Waterwalks / Sanders. Depends on build, and budget. Sanders is good for any runners. And not having to go the extra mile for Aldur's (or other) is saved life.
- Amulet of choice. Again, take what you find. +skills, +mana, +energy, +stats, fcr, whatever you can find.
- 2 x Rings of choice. Again. anything you can find.

Sure, this sort of budget gear will get you crushed by the richer builds. But these items open up for some tweaking. You can go no-block vita build and tweak for FCR and FHR. You can pump mana recovery or increased mana. You can pump res or, well, just ditch res ;).

A trapper with equipment similiar like this can use whitstan's for max block. Then you try your best to open up the armor slot, enough to switch between Shaft, Guardian Angel or Steal/viperskin (which ever blows your horn). It's a bit .09ish, but it would most likely work pretty well.

A necro can twink for FR/W with the above gear, for instance which, by all means, can be just as effective as teleporting. If not more so, depending on where your FCR lands. Low FCR, Teleporting builds will teleport pretty slow. In 1.09 FR/W was usually the key to keeping up the pace with teleporting sorcs.

And, as you grow richer. You can always rebuild and fill in with charms, better gear, etc, etc.

[masterazn]

okay nevermind the barb then.


What is the cheapest PvP build that would be alright to kill others.

I have a shako, vipermagi, occulus and war travs, water walks.
I'm not dirt poor but I dont have fancy runewords and what not. If i build a pvp sorc, what skills do I max? I dont want the orb + ts or any other common ones. Maybe fireball? pure lightning? What's good? Hydra?

[Phyrexial]

For all your "best pvp" build questions, please refer to this list I have compiled for this question:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showpost.php?p=3535191&postcount=4

As for best character given a restricted budget, I would say Hammerdins are pretty nasty given only mediocre gear. Alot of bang for your buck.

[Kaffe]

okay nevermind the barb then.


What is the cheapest PvP build that would be alright to kill others.

I have a shako, vipermagi, occulus and war travs, water walks.
I'm not dirt poor but I dont have fancy runewords and what not. If i build a pvp sorc, what skills do I max? I dont want the orb + ts or any other common ones. Maybe fireball? pure lightning? What's good? Hydra?

Orb is Good :), that's why it's common. An orb sorc who learns how to connect a direct hit... Well, good luck sport!

Blizzard works too, seems kind of slowish and requiers a lot of -res and all that to ensure that anything that goes through the blizzard dies.

Skill wise. Basicly, max synnergies, if you think it will strap you for skill points, max the mastery first. Especially Cold Should aim for a deasant amount of skill points there.

Fire Ball sorcs should probably stack FCR, to make up for it's straight-line type of shooting. From what I hear, 200% is the goal here, meaning:

- 50% Wiz Spike
- 30% Skin of the Viper
- 20% Magefists
- ~35% Spirit Runeword Shield (damn cheap for those mods, IMHO)
- 20% Arachnid's
- 30%/40% from Jewelry (2 x caster rings, rare/crafted amu (10-20% FCR)).
- 20%/25% headgear. You can use a rare circlet, or Griffon's eye here.

That will give you a minimum of 205% FCR, or up to 220% (effectively letting you exchange parts of your gear, like wiz for Hoto or circlet for shake (depending on set-up)).

It sounds like a whole lot of tweaking for me, IMHO.

Hydra sorcs? Mmm, not sure really. I met a few of these in 1.09. They could own, in the right circumstances (TvT, pally + necro in same team ;)) but I never got beaten, once, in a 1 on 1 fight by a Hydra. Some say a well built Hydra sorc who can switch between offense and defense can be pretty awesome. But that remains to be seen (by me at least).

Pure lightning? Not really sure what works there either. You could synnergise Lightning and go for a sort of Hybrid there, Charged Bolts/Lightning sorc. Chain Lightning in a TvT game should also be pretty popular :p.

I'm not really a sorc player, just delivering some random thoughts here so that others can pick 'em apart :).

[IAmHotshot]

IMO fire sorcies make the best duelers, at least for me. Ofcourse, some random guy with 15 or so posts doesn't sound like he would know anything, but I do have a lvl 94 fire sorc with 200fcr, 20k-21kfbs, 86+fhr, and 2800+ life- so I indeed do know what I'm talking about.

Now, its feasible to make a good fire sorc with the equip you mentioned, however if you really want the edge, you should definetly get fire skill charms, since each one adds about 1k dmg to your fireball if you get it high enough. With your equip, you might be hitting about 9k-10k fireball dmg per hit, and since you said your opponents won't have much resistance, you should be able to drop most of them in one hit, or two tops.

I really reccomend getting 105 faster cast, or at the very least, 63+. Some faster hit recovery could help out as well. Don't add too much str, don't add to dex at all, and the rest of your points should go to vita.
Skillwise, it's pretty obvious:
20 fireball
20 firebolt
20 fire mastery
20 meteor
1 warmth

since you will have points to spare if you reach the 80s, I'd suggest you add:
1 to hydra (all-around fun skill)
1 to thunderstorm (great for stun, and adds a little damage too)
1 to lightning mastery (one point into it to boost thunderstorm dmg a bit)
1 to shiver armour (increase your armour, and maybe slow down some melees.
In your case, the rest of the points should probably go to warmth.

[Noite Escura]

Reminds me a really killed a Barb some weeks ago days with my PvMs Shiver Armor :D
He was down to a sliver of health after I hit some orbs on him. :lol:

[aznbboi16]

Anything that does mainly elemental damage cannot be a good all around pvper. You will always run into someone with a lot of +max resists and absorb. Then what? Run to town and cry?

With endless riches, these would be my top choices in order of preference:
1. BvC/BvA
2. Bone Necromancer
3. Hammerdin/Liberator
4. Wind Druid

The cheapest all around build would definitely be a hammerdin if you know how to play one correctly.

[masterazn]

Thanks for all the replies.

I've opted to go for the ES-Lightning sorc, I figured if I can take a lot of hits, I'll be able to do something cool.

I've never liked dual-elementalists, I've always liked to go all out on one element, I guess that's why my sorcs do well in some duels and ridiculously made in others. In any case, this is going to be my next char.

I would like to make an assassin next. I have decided to make a PvP Fire Trapper, the one outlined at the strategy compedium. Do you think it's a viable character? Do I just spam mindblast on the opponent and spam wake of fire while I stun-lock them? I've never played an assassin. Also, are Burst of Speed and Wake casting spells? Like shiver armor where I cast it and it lasts for a while? I can cast both to get both bonuses simultaneously?

I've also made a PvM WWS zon, which really sucks by the way. I'm non-ladder and I can't upgrade the bow. I deal barely 700 max damage, which times 4 is still only 2800. My valk is strong though.

What would be a strong amazon to make? I don't have items as of now but I will try and get them. Do I have to have windforce? Do I have to have faith or BotD? I see that amazons are really weak now unless they have all the elite gear. Should I even try to make a PvP amazon?

-masterazn

[mastermind]

[QUOTE=aznbboi16]Anything that does mainly elemental damage cannot be a good all around pvper. You will always run into someone with a lot of +max resists and absorb. Then what? Run to town and cry?

With endless riches, these would be my top choices in order of preference:
1. BvC/BvA
2. Bone Necromancer
3. Hammerdin/Liberator
4. Wind Druid
QUOTE]

that true alot of ppl have hugely stacked res and mass absorb and huge life meaning ur dmg is almost useless against them almost like fighting a fire imune monster with a fire attack it will hardly do any dmg even if u do big elemental dmg.

I would also say a smiter is another great build to think about cuz a smiter can be cheap and still be very dangerous to fight.

[RetroStar]

With infinite riches, I'll take godly ES Light sorcs > Windy any day.

[Registrar]

Anything that does mainly elemental damage cannot be a good all around pvper. You will always run into someone with a lot of +max resists and absorb. Then what? Run to town and cry?

With endless riches, these would be my top choices in order of preference:
1. BvC/BvA
2. Bone Necromancer
3. Hammerdin/Liberator
4. Wind Druid

The cheapest all around build would definitely be a hammerdin if you know how to play one correctly.
BvC/BvA ??

[Phyrexial]

BvC/BvA ??
Barb vs Caster barb and Barb vs All barbs.