( L ) suggestions on handling Hell Difficulty

[Thynqikan]

Hello all,

I have been playing a Frozen orb/ Meteor sorceress and I am now level 65. I was playing with a Paladin who ran fanaticism/ conviction and we blew through Nightmare. Now that I am in Hell difficulty I am having alot of problems with large groups ( i have to run away ).
I went to the Burial grounds, killed Bloodraven, then went into one of the crypts where I ran into a group of zombies. I dont recall the bosses mods, but they were not cold immune, but it still took me 7-8 frozen orbs to kill a single zombie as I slowly separated them from the main pack. This is ridiculous in my opinion. Here is what I am running:
wiz spike
face of horror ( for str only )
spirit monarch
duriels shell
FCR crafted belt
FCR resist rings
40% run speed boots

I am using the NM Barb minion with an Oath, Griswolds armor and an arreats helm. He is rocking, so I am hesitant to replace him.
Skillswise, I am at 15 frozen Orb, 10 cold mastery and 8 Meteor 7 Fire mastery with 10 warmth. The problem isnt with me dying, it is that I cant kill anything so I have to run away ( IE I am not getting anywhere in Hell difficulty )

I am considering using an Infinity runeword on an NM act 2 Minion for the conviction aura. I know it will help greatly.
For now I am doing NM Baal runs for levelshoping to get into early 70's before I go back to hell difficulty.

Anyone have any other suggestions?
Thanks in advance

*thynqikan
*wishikood

[Humphrey]

You only need 1 point in warmth. Apart from that I can't really help you. Hope someone else can. Personally I'd remake it as you have put 9 points in warmth that you don't need.

What have you done with the rest of your skill points? I assume you have 1 pt in teleport and 1 pt in static field? If you are having problems static everythings first to get it to half life then you've only got half the life to deal with.

You are at a very low level for hell, try getting to 70-75 before entering hell again (there is something odd about this on Bnet isn't there? If you can't enter NM games have fun leveling against fallen I guess).

[Thynqikan]

Well, I only have a few in warmth the rest comes from +skill items I am wearing ( I think I add at least +5 skills )
My skill distribution is basically 1 in all prerequisites, 4 in warmth, the rest went into Cold mastery, Frozen orb( 10 + skills = 15 ), some in Lightning such as teleport, static field, chain lightning and about 10 in energy shield ( so it totals around 15 ) and some in telekinisis. I have around 6 in Meteor.

Thanks

*wishikood
*thynqikan

[Humphrey]

That's a lot of points in the lightning tree. Energy Shield isn't really worth it unless you build a character around it or so I've heard (there is a great looking guide linked to in the stickies if you do decide to do an energy shield sorc, I've not made one yet but it does look like it could be fun).

You want 1pt in teleport, 1pt in static field, max meteor, max orb, FM to about 10 hard points, CM to 17 after +skills, max one meteor synergy, and the rest of the points in the other meteor synergy or fire mastery. Check the stickies, there are two good meteorb guides.

If I were you I'd make another meterob sorc as I think your current one won't be able to handle hell very well. I've not played on Bnet (well I played for about an hour once but I don't think that counts...) so I don't know if you can still make/enter nightmare games but if you can this character should be able to do nightmare meph runs, you could do that to get gear for your new character.

Tri-element sorcs are very hard (if not impossible) in 1.11, you need to focus on two trees really.

[GotFriana]

Hmmm its true you spread your skills points too much, but not all is lost yet IMO, since you are still lvl 65 and you just started hell you may have enough points to "fix" your sorc a bit. Getting to level 85 is not very hard + skill quests you still have 24 points to use.
With your next skill points from levels Max Frozen Orb, dont put points into anything else, that ll require you lvl 75 (provided you lvl in nm baal and still dont get your skill quests in hell) from then on concentrate on Meteor.
You say you can t kill anything but that s because your spells are too weak, level 15 orb is not enough.
Also when you entered that crypt at the Cementery you probably went into the Mausoleum that is a level 85 area, meaning the monsters in there are level 85 as well, much harder to kill than those outside. And your mercenary being the same level as you will have problems hitting them, so no matter how good his damage is he cannot be of much help if he s not hitting. You will have the same problem with an act2 merc unless you and the mercenary level up more. Also if Im not wrong cold inmunity and fire inmunity cannot be broken by Infinity in most cases, that rune word is good for Light inmunity but not so much for the other elements.

[YellowFlash]

Just my personal preference but I'd ditch the barb merc and get either a prayer act2 merc or a holy freeze act2 merc equiped with insight. If you're rich enough to even consider getting an infinity, you should concentrate on getting more essential gear like shako, occy, magefist, silkweave or wartravs(you're a sorc, you don't need faster run walk. Drop the 40 rw boots and tele), Any +2 skills ammy. I'm kinda emphasizing +skill items because that's what's most essential to any sorc. Also forgot to mention skin of the vipermagi or other +skill armor.

[darksentinel]

Quick note: Infinity lowers enemy defense as well, so an Infinity merc can hit stuff. Get a Holy Freeze merc, then you have more time to hit stuff. Going 2 elements means you can deal with most immunities.
BTW, why use Infinity? You have Cold Mastery, so only your Meteor will benefit from Convict. And yes, you need +skills.
Shako, Tal's ammy, Vipermagi and Occy won't put you back too much (can get eac of them for Um or Ist), net you +8 more skills than you have at the moment (so lvl 23 FO).
I don't think Orb benefits from FCR, so try getting a SoJ (more mana, and skill ;)), and maybe an Arachnids Mesh belt (+1 skill, and FCR).
Later you can aim for a Chains of Honour, and all the other high-end stuff.
Good luck ;)

[McCain123]

I am at 15 frozen Orb, 10 cold mastery and 8 Meteor 7 Fire mastery with 10 warmth.

That is 50 skillpoints. At lvl 65 you have
64 from leveling
and 8 from the skillquests in normal and nm
for a total of 72 skillpoints?
Where did you put the remainig 22?

10 in warmth is too much.

GotFriana gave some good advise, but If you just feel too weak, take a look at this (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=254070), if you want to rebuild it right.

[Frosty_The_Snowman]

- COLD TREE : If you plan to use an Infinity, don't put more than 1 point into Cold Mastery. If you're rich enough to afford an Infinity, then no doubt you will be rich enough to afford enough good gear to reach a 15+ to all skills, giving you a very nice Cold Mastery with only one point in it. Put 1 point in the first Cold Armor. It will freeze the monsters that hit you when you teleport (very useful). And of course, max Orb.

- LIGHTNING: Put only 1 point in static, 1 point in Energy shield, 1 point only in all the prerequisites including Teleport. That's all, no more points in this tree. You will rely on +skills items to boost your Static, Teleport and Energy Shield.

- FIRE TREE : Don't use Meteor as your main secondary skill. Use fireball instead. That's where you gotta work on your FCR. Aim at 105% FCR. Use Meteor when you're fightning cold immunes (Attack sequence : Meteor-Fireball-Fireball-Fireball-Fireball, rinse and repeat). Put only 1 point into Warmth. Put 15 points (NOT 20) into Fire Bolts for the synergies (I'll explain this below). MAX Fireball and Meteor. All the rest, put it in fire mastery. Why not 20 in Fire bolts ? Because with enough +skills and when you're cLvl 90+, Fire Mastery gives you more fire damage than an extra point into Fire bolts after sLvl 15. I won't enter into math details, but you can check this thread if you're interested into the details :
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=378443&page=2&pp=10

- Don't put any points into Dex unless you choose the block route (in this case, don't use Energy Shield at all).
- Be very carefull with Strength. You can use +Str from items and keep some extra points for vitality and energy.
- Don't put too much points into Vitality (my sorceress has 100 vitality and is working fine in Hell).
- All the rest goes to Energy. You'll need a huge mana pool to keep your Energy Shield efficient.

Good luck with your sorceress :thumbsup: !
- Frosty

[sasja]

Hello, Thynqikan! Lots of good advice for you here - max your FO and Meteor/Fireball, get the HF merc, but most importantly: 65 is just too low to start Hell - go back and level some in Nightmare. I'd wait until well into your 70's. Hell is hard - but it's supposed to be, right?

I think you went a little overboard on the Warmth, like others have mentioned, but if you don't need a perfect build, your girl can tackle Hell just fine in 10-15 levels' time.

Good luck :thumbsup:

Frosty: Energy Shield without Telekinesis is tricky business, and a big manapool which the ES needs is pretty much wasted for a Meteorb. ES can work well on some builds, but I don't think the Meteorb is one of them - rather, a pure orber (who has the skill points) or a lightning sorc (who can use the manapool) are builds to consider if you like the shield. FCR is all well and good for a Fireball build, but again, two out of the Meteorb's three attacks don't benefit from it. It's all about picking what will make your sorc more powerfull overall. I take it you're mostly a Fireballer :)

[Thynqikan]

Thanks all to for the excellent advice. I am stubborn, and intend to play the toon I built rather than remake her. Even a bad study can get the game done I think :)
I will definitely level up in NM till I am around 75 before tackling Hell again.
Thanks again.

*thynqikan
*wishikood

[darksentinel]

Last word: Since you're now in Hell, you won't be able to see Nightmare Baal Run games. So make your won. FO and Meteor will own the NM Throne Room, and you can teleport well with your FCR gear. Since you will be running, you won't have to awit for someone else to do it, and if you do it well you can quickly find lots of people to max out 8 player games. 20 or so runs wil easily take you into the low-to-mid 70s I think.

Luck, play hard, play fair ;)

[melianor]

You are lvl 65, thats all that is needed to be said. Go back to NM and see where you can handle mobs and work your way up until you are lvl75 and THEN go to Hell ;)

[Thynqikan]

I think that is my problem, I like a challenge and NM isnt a challenge at all in any area. I went to hell difficulty rather early ( lvl 60 ) for the increased difficulty, but alas it was far to early.

*thynqikan
*wishikood

[Thynqikan]

Update:

I levelled up a bit in NM till lvl 70, then tried Hell difficulty and I did indeed find it alot better. Also, I took the advice of some of you and I stopped using my energy shield and I actually find it better this way. Considering i dumped 14 points into Energy shield I do think the suggestion to remake my sorc was a good one. However, as I said before I am stubborn, and determined to make her work.
I am now into act 2 Hell and finding maxing Frozen Orb, and now working on Meteor were excellent suggestions.
She is now lvl 73.

Thanks again all.

*wishikood
*thynqikan

[birdfoot]

Hi,

Actualli, I don't think adding to Energy Shield is a bad idea. However, you should have enough mana to cater to the absorption of attacks. Since you have already added it, I think you can still use it as an additional safety blanket. It is important, however, to have alot of mana (say around 1k+). With your Warmth at lvl 10, more mana will provide even better regenration. But I do not advise you to add too much to your energy pts. I have 100 base energy and 1.2k+ mana with my gears equipped; Energy Shield works pretty well for me plus I also have pretty good blocking. Getting an Act2 NM Defensive merc is a very sound advice IMO, and you can use Insight runeword as a cheap weapon to start off with. This gives you very very good mana regeneration to start your journey through Hell.

The usual reasons why Hell is hard to start off for most people are IMO:
- unoptimized skill allocation (which doesn't provide optimal damage)
- poor gear (which they should linger and MF in NM alittle longer to beef up on equipment)
- unfamiliar with the differences between Hell and other difficulties

There are some techniques using a sorc which you'll learn very well as you play along in Hell. I used to have alot of problems in Meph runs even with decent gear. To be honest, as a pure Fire sorc who got into Hell early, even Blood Moor was a pain for me. Merc's will never be able to kill better than you when they are lower than Lvl 65 without some decent gear, so most of the dirty work will have to rely on yourself.

Since most of the other guys have already gave sound advices (leaving me with nothing *sob*), my suggestion for you is not to add skill/stat pts too hastily in the future when using your sorc. Test, observe and analyse what the problem might be. Also, it's never a good idea to spread yourself too thin. A focused build is always stronger than a hybrid in at least 1 aspect. I don't think your sorc is a goner yet, with maxed Frozen orb, I'm sure it can be salvaged in at least 1 aspect, i.e. against non-cold immunes. For non-fire immunes, Fire Ball is a great skill to have since its fast. Meteor is good for enemies that don't move fast or are currently engaged with your merc.

You'll need to spend more in the gears department IMO. The only way to see improvement in performance of your sorc with respect to gear is when you use more +Skills, +FCR, +Life/Mana, +Resis items. There are a few areas where +1/2 skills can be easily reached:

- Helm (Lore Runeword, Peasant Crown, Shako)
- Amulet (+1/2 Rare/Magic amulet, Telling of Beads, Tal's Ammy, Mara's)
- Armor (Spirit Shroud, Skin of Vipermagi, Que-Hagen's, Arkaine's, CoH)
- Weapon (Memory Runeword, Spirit Runeword, Occy, Eschuta's, HoTo)
- Shield (Spirit Runeword, Lidless, Sigon's shield)

Shields that provide very good blocking are:
1. Whinstan's Guard (no resis but requires least dex)
2. Stormshield (very good dmg reduction and good resis in certain areas but hi str req)
3. Spirit Ward (good resis and blocks better than Stormshield but hi str req)
4. Sigon's shield (good block and +1 skill)

I wish you success. :)

Btw, I forgot to mention that using Frostburns instead of Magefist for more mana is a good idea too. ;)