I lied... I have more questions.

[Irongrave]

I was browsing the rune words, when it hit me... do auras gained from items affect your skellies? I'm betting so.

And I know Auras that aren't the same can stack.

Pride has Level 16-20 conc aura on it... +285-345% damage.
My Merc has might Aura, which can reach level 20… +230% damage.

At 24 skel mastery, and 24 RS, my skels do 198-200 damage.

With perfect Pride (20 conc) that means a total of +575% damage…
Which means my skels would do 1337-1350 EACH.

If I get + to skills, and get ohh say 14 skeletons or so… and their attack speed means they attack about twice per second.
That = DPS of 37436-37800.

Oh yeah… then there’s that lovely thing called amplify damage.
Removes immunity to physical, decreases phys resist by 100%.
So basically that’s double damage.

Let me know what you think, and if there are any holes in my ideas.

[Irongrave]

I guess this also begs the question... can Act 2 NM mercs also carry polearms?

[McTCM]

I guess this also begs the question... can Act 2 NM mercs also carry polearms?

yes they can

anything with a stick they can handle (execpt amazon only stuff)

[Irongrave]

I guess this also begs the question... can Act 2 NM mercs also carry polearms?

Never mind, I checked AS... they can.

I really REALLLY want to know if there are any holes in this theory, or if anyone has tried it.

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Well, that's generally the idea behind a Commandomancer. :lol: And you forgot Beast and Infinity. =D

[Irongrave]

Well, that's generally the idea behind a Commandomancer. :lol: And you forgot Beast and Infinity. =D

Those are nice, but what would I put beast on if my merc uses Pride :X

L20 Conc is also more + to damage than L9 fanaticism.

Plus I wouldn't have much use for infinity as I do primarily physical damage.

[Mad Mantis]

Those are nice, but what would I put beast on if my merc uses Pride :X

L20 Conc is also more + to damage than L9 fanaticism.

Plus I wouldn't have much use for infinity as I do primarily physical damage.

No silly, you hold the Beast. That is the whole idea behind the Commandomancer. You get physical. You're also forgetting the speed and AR boost granted by Beast.

Infinity also drastically lowers the enemies defense. We did some calculations and it turns out that Infinity is king when it comes to Skellies.

[Necrochild313]

At 24 skel mastery, and 24 RS, my skels do 198-200 damage.

With perfect Pride (20 conc) that means a total of +575% damage…
Which means my skels would do 1337-1350 EACH.

Theres a few holes here. Minor one is I'm lookin at a calculator and your skellies with 24/24 should deal 185-187, I'm just going to use that because I need the numbers.

Ok, at level 24 Raise Skeleton gives 147% ED. That means the base damage would be around 75-76ish. You have to add that ED% from raise skeleton on to the 575% your calculating and multiply it by the base damage. So 75-76 increased by 722%, or ~616-624ish a piece. Still not bad all things considering.

For sake of completeness a full commando setup with the merc using his might aura (lets say with a level 17 might, level 20 takes quite a high level iirc) and one that uses Perfect Pride over Infinity (bad Idea IMO, but for the sake of the argument) your looking at:

93% (Beast) + 200% (Merc) + 345% (Pride) + 147% (RS) = 785% ED, and with 24/24 skeletons (base dmg 75-76ish) that's ~663-672ish, which isn't bad.

Hell, lets say you prebuff and get level 34/34 skeletons. The numbers would like this:

93% (Beast) + 200% (Merc) + 345% (Pride) + 217% (RS) = 855%, with 34/34 skeletons (base dmg 130-131ish) your looking at ~1241-1251 a skelly, which is a little closer to the 1337 damage you predicted ;).

EDIT: You should check out This guide (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=348494). I think you'd find it suiting.

[Darksilanus]

yes they can

anything with a stick they can handle (execpt amazon only stuff)

Not to nitpcik, but Act 2 merc can only use polearm class weapons AFAIK. That means no spears, which are not exclusively amazon only weapons.

[Painman]

Not to nitpcik, but Act 2 merc can only use polearm class weapons AFAIK. That means no spears, which are not exclusively amazon only weapons.

Incorrect... Act 2 mercs most definitely *can* use non-Amazon spears.

[Darksilanus]

Incorrect... Act 2 mercs most definitely *can* use non-Amazon spears.

Right you are. I'm sorry for the mistake, I had always assumed that only polearms were available to them....of course you know what they say about people who assume, eh? In any case, my bad :-)

[Painman]

No worries. It's Blizz's fault, they totally marginalized the spear class by not making any of these great merc runewords work in them. :grrr: But there's still Kelpie, Hone and such which are useful. And I always start my normal Act 2 mercs out with Bloodthief :)

BTW, sorry to keep up the sidetrack, but do mercs still get any benefit from +skills? Would I get stronger Might by using Arioc's?

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

^Yes, they still benifit from +Skills.

[Irongrave]

Theres a few holes here. Minor one is I'm lookin at a calculator and your skellies with 24/24 should deal 185-187, I'm just going to use that because I need the numbers.

Ok, at level 24 Raise Skeleton gives 147% ED. That means the base damage would be around 75-76ish. You have to add that ED% from raise skeleton on to the 575% your calculating and multiply it by the base damage. So 75-76 increased by 722%, or ~616-624ish a piece. Still not bad all things considering.

For sake of completeness a full commando setup with the merc using his might aura (lets say with a level 17 might, level 20 takes quite a high level iirc) and one that uses Perfect Pride over Infinity (bad Idea IMO, but for the sake of the argument) your looking at:

93% (Beast) + 200% (Merc) + 345% (Pride) + 147% (RS) = 785% ED, and with 24/24 skeletons (base dmg 75-76ish) that's ~663-672ish, which isn't bad.

Hell, lets say you prebuff and get level 34/34 skeletons. The numbers would like this:

93% (Beast) + 200% (Merc) + 345% (Pride) + 217% (RS) = 855%, with 34/34 skeletons (base dmg 130-131ish) your looking at ~1241-1251 a skelly, which is a little closer to the damage you predicted ;).

EDIT: You should check out This guide (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=348494). I think you'd find it suiting.

Well, I'm in game right now looking directly at my skeleton damage... and it's 198-200... without Might.

The increased damage that I showed earlier was also assuming somewhere around +40 to both RS and SM somehow, though I don't know how I'd get that.. lol. Lots of charms?

24/24 in both RS and SM.

I guess what I'm asking then is, is the L9 Fanaticism Aura on beast worth more as a commandomancer than the possible +x to skills and other mods?
I can kind of see that...

But Infinity?
Is the decreased defense really worth that much?
79% at L9... so with about 1000 attack rating that would mean I was almost guaranteed to hit.

[Necrochild313]

Well, I'm in game right now looking directly at my skeleton damage... and it's 198-200... without Might.

Are you looking at the character screen or doing a mouse over on the skill selected? One of them has a display bug.

The increased damage that I showed earlier was also assuming somewhere around +40 to both RS and SM somehow, though I don't know how I'd get that.. lol. Lots of charms?

AFAIK lvl 60 skills are not possibly legitimately.

The point of my reply was to show you that the displayed damage is not the damage that is multiplied by the auras.

I guess what I'm asking then is, is the L9 Fanaticism Aura on beast worth more as a commandomancer than the possible +x to skills and other mods?
I can kind of see that...

You prebuff (Summoning your minions with a Leoric and a Golemlords Totem or a splendored totem with +RS/SM) and then switch back to beast. Your minions will retain their summed stats, and gain the attack speed, attack rating, and damage boost that beast gives.

But Infinity?
Is the decreased defense really worth that much?
79% at L9... so with about 1000 attack rating that would mean I was almost guaranteed to hit.

Clicketh here (http://forums.diabloii.net/showpost.php?p=3648903&postcount=2)

[Irongrave]

Are you looking at the character screen or doing a mouse over on the skill selected? One of them has a display bug.



Ah, well that would be why.
Sorry, this is my first real viable legit necromancer... I don't know that much about them.

I was always a Barb man :)


AFAIK lvl 60 skills are not possibly legitimately.


Sorry, typo, I meant 40 total... not +40... (though that would be insane, you have to admit.)


You prebuff (Summoning your minions with a Leoric and a Golemlords Totem or a splendored totem with +RS/SM) and then switch back to beast. Your minions will retain their summed stats, and gain the attack speed, attack rating, and damage boost that beast gives.


Ok... now that makes a bit more sense.


Clicketh here (http://forums.diabloii.net/showpost.php?p=3648903&postcount=2)

Faith looks pretty awesome... but it's a MISSILE weapon :(

What if you got the Blessed Aim merc and went Faith/Pride?

Would that rock some socks?

[Necrochild313]

Ah, well that would be why.
Sorry, this is my first real viable legit necromancer... I don't know that much about them.

I was always a Barb man :)

Welcome to the darkness then padawan ;)

What if you got the Blessed Aim merc and went Faith/Pride?

Would that rock some socks?

It probably would, but because skellies have a low AR to multiply, -def would probably be better.

That's an assumption, lets see how it pans out.

-

Our Hero, the summoner MR_SKELLY, is level 85 is an running for Keys of Destruction in ladder season 3 and makes it to the Halls of Vaught, which has an area level of 84. He raise skeleton and skeleton mastery stand at a modest 35/35 after prebuff, and right as he steps out of the stairwell he's attacked by a rather large arachnid.

His Skeletons deal 443-447 displayed damage (or 137-138 base damage, as RS has +224% ED at this level). They have 1055 AR.

MR_SKELLY's might merc Waheed is level 85 as well (level 17 might +200% ED), and is equipped with Infinity (-83% Enemy's Defense). 424% ED Total.

Overall, MR_SKELLY'S Skeletons deal 717-723 damage.

The "Arach" type monster has 2205 defense, and a monster level of 84.

After Waheed's conviction hits the arachnid, however, it's defense is reduced to 374.

Chance to hit formula

100 * AR / (AR + DR) * 2 * alvl / (alvl + dlvl)
AR = Attack Rating; alvl = Level of Attacker; dlvl = Level of Defender; DR = Defense Rating

Note: Attacks will never have less than 5% chance to hit nor more than 95% chance to hit.

100 * 1055 / (1055 + 374) * 2 * 85 / (85 + 84)

MR_SKELLY's Skeletons have 74% Chance to hit, at 717-723 damage per hit.

(Out of 100 attempted swings, on average it'd be 53,058-53,502 damage)

After dispatching the arachnid, he sees ahead of him that another summoner, TEH_BONEZ, is already working on finding nihilthak and refuses to party. TEH_BONEZ hits an evil urn and is immediately ambushed by a group of spiders.

TEH_BONEZ is also level 85, with level 35/35 RS/SM. His Skeletons deal 443-447 displayed damage (or 137-138 base damage, as RS has +224% ED at this level). They have 1055 AR.

TEH_BONEZ's Blessed Aim Merc, also named Waheed, has a level 18 blessed aim at level 85 (330% AR Bonus), and is using a Pride Polearm, with a level 20 Concentration (345% ED). That gives TEH_BONEZ's Skellys a total of 569% ED, and 4536 AR. They deal 916-923 damage.

The "Arach" type monster has 2205 defense, and a monster level of 84.

100 * 4536/ (4536 + 2205) * 2 * 85 / (85 + 84)

MR_SKELLY's Skeletons have 67% Chance to hit with 916-923 per hit.

(Out of 100 attempted swings, on average it'd be 61,372-61,841 damage)

Interesting, seems pride's higher ED boost gets it over the lower CTH when blessed aim is involved. Lets see if beast effects the results.

Both Skellymancers weapon switch to their beasts for the additional 93% ED and 80% AR across the board.

MR_SKELLY

137-138 base damage increased by (424% + 93% =517% ED) = 845-851 damage

1055 base AR increased by 80% = 1899 AR

Skelly level = 85

Arach level = 84, Defense = 374 (conviction)

100 * 1899/ (1899 + 374) * 2 * 85 / (85 + 84)

84% Chance to hit at 845-851 damage per hit

(Out of 100 attempted swings, on average it'd be 70980-71484)

TEH_BONEZ

137-138 base damage increased by (569 + 93% = 662% ED) = 1043-1051 damage

1055 base AR increased by (330% + 80% = 410%) = 5380 AR

Skelly level = 85

Arach level = 84, Defense = 2205

100 * 5380/ (5380 + 2205) * 2 * 85 / (85 + 84)

71% Chance to hit at 1043-1051 damage per hit

(Out of 100 attempted swings, on average it'd be 74053-74621)

Very interesting. Looks like pride + blessed aim is the way to go for brute damage. I would personally go for infinity + might because it is only a bit less damage all things considered, but it also helps your CE alot (and mages if you have any), and doesn't shatter corpses, but Pride + BA has more damage.

[Irongrave]

Welcome to the darkness then padawan ;)



It probably would, but because skellies have a low AR to multiply, -def would probably be better.

That's an assumption, lets see how it pans out.

-

Our Hero, the summoner MR_SKELLY, is level 85 is an running for Keys of Destruction in ladder season 3 and makes it to the Halls of Vaught, which has an area level of 84. He raise skeleton and skeleton mastery stand at a modest 35/35 after prebuff, and right as he steps out of the stairwell he's attacked by a rather large arachnid.

His Skeletons deal 443-447 displayed damage (or 137-138 base damage, as RS has +224% ED at this level). They have 1055 AR.

MR_SKELLY's might merc Waheed is level 85 as well (level 17 might +200% ED), and is equipped with Infinity (-83% Enemy's Defense). 424% ED Total.

Overall, MR_SKELLY'S Skeletons deal 717-723 damage.

The "Arach" type monster has 2205 defense, and a monster level of 84.

After Waheed's conviction hits the arachnid, however, it's defense is reduced to 374.

Chance to hit formula

100 * AR / (AR + DR) * 2 * alvl / (alvl + dlvl)
AR = Attack Rating; alvl = Level of Attacker; dlvl = Level of Defender; DR = Defense Rating

Note: Attacks will never have less than 5% chance to hit nor more than 95% chance to hit.

100 * 1055 / (1055 + 374) * 2 * 85 / (85 + 84)

MR_SKELLY's Skeletons have 74% Chance to hit, at 717-723 damage per hit.

(Out of 100 attempted swings, on average it'd be 53,058-53,502 damage)

After dispatching the arachnid, he sees ahead of him that another summoner, TEH_BONEZ, is already working on finding nihilthak and refuses to party. TEH_BONEZ hits an evil urn and is immediately ambushed by a group of spiders.

TEH_BONEZ is also level 85, with level 35/35 RS/SM. His Skeletons deal 443-447 displayed damage (or 137-138 base damage, as RS has +224% ED at this level). They have 1055 AR.

TEH_BONEZ's Blessed Aim Merc, also named Waheed, has a level 18 blessed aim at level 85 (330% AR Bonus), and is using a Pride Polearm, with a level 20 Concentration (345% ED). That gives TEH_BONEZ's Skellys a total of 569% ED, and 4536 AR. They deal 916-923 damage.

The "Arach" type monster has 2205 defense, and a monster level of 84.

100 * 4536/ (4536 + 2205) * 2 * 85 / (85 + 84)

MR_SKELLY's Skeletons have 67% Chance to hit with 916-923 per hit.

(Out of 100 attempted swings, on average it'd be 61,372-61,841 damage)

Interesting, seems pride's higher ED boost gets it over the lower CTH when blessed aim is involved. Lets see if beast effects the results.

Both Skellymancers weapon switch to their beasts for the additional 93% ED and 80% AR across the board.

MR_SKELLY

137-138 base damage increased by (424% + 93% =517% ED) = 845-851 damage

1055 base AR increased by 80% = 1899 AR

Skelly level = 85

Arach level = 84, Defense = 374 (conviction)

100 * 1899/ (1899 + 374) * 2 * 85 / (85 + 84)

84% Chance to hit at 845-851 damage per hit

(Out of 100 attempted swings, on average it'd be 70980-71484)

TEH_BONEZ

137-138 base damage increased by (569 + 93% = 662% ED) = 1043-1051 damage

1055 base AR increased by (330% + 80% = 410%) = 5380 AR

Skelly level = 85

Arach level = 84, Defense = 2205

100 * 5380/ (5380 + 2205) * 2 * 85 / (85 + 84)

71% Chance to hit at 1043-1051 damage per hit

(Out of 100 attempted swings, on average it'd be 74053-74621)

Very interesting. Looks like pride + blessed aim is the way to go for brute damage. I would personally go for infinity + might because it is only a bit less damage all things considered, but it also helps your CE alot (and mages if you have any), and doesn't shatter corpses, but Pride + BA has more damage.

Lol... I love your little scenarios.

They are like life lessons for the Necromancer... very informative.

Did this last one take into account faith rune word?

I would kill to see faith + pride + BA...

Though it will be hilarious to see my necro running around with a bow or crossbow in his hands, lol.

Oh also... I have another question for you.

What do I need to keep my damn merc from dying? He dies on NIGHTMARE even.... it's ridiculous... I hate having to go back to town and shell out 25 grand every 5 seconds.

I'm pretty poor right now :( Every time I assault Nightmare Baal he doesn't drop squat (not that my magic find is awesome, but he should drop SOMETHING.)

The coolest thing I've found so far is an undead crown... and I also have a pair of Marrowwalks my friend gave me... but other than that, poor.

[Good Fer Nothin SOB]

Make sure your merc is as close to your level as possible, give him the best gear you can get your hands on (life leech, damage reduction, +life are all good for survivability), and I believe he tends to have a shorter leash then other minions so if he gets into trouble run away just a little bit and he'll chase after you while the rest of your minions stand there, then when you and your merc get closer again the enemies are already focused on other targets.

Patience, mercs tend to be wussies at low and mid levels, once they get higher level then they'll start to show some durability.

[Necrochild313]

Oh also... I have another question for you.

What do I need to keep my damn merc from dying? He dies on NIGHTMARE even.... it's ridiculous... I hate having to go back to town and shell out 25 grand every 5 seconds.

I'm pretty poor right now :( Every time I assault Nightmare Baal he doesn't drop squat (not that my magic find is awesome, but he should drop SOMETHING.)

The coolest thing I've found so far is an undead crown... and I also have a pair of Marrowwalks my friend gave me... but other than that, poor.

Do you have all your summonings out when he dies? Usually he doesn't take much heat when your skellies rush ahead.

Hrm, as Good Fer Nothing said, you should make sure your merc is your level. One of the features in 1.11 is that mercs follow your level before hired (usually just a few behind), so if your merc is too far behind just take his gear off and rehire him.

As far as faith goes, I don't think it'd be too different from beast (only a few levels ahead) but what the hell.

Both Skellymancers weapon switch to their (level 15) faith crusaders for the additional 144% ED and 110% AR across the board.

MR_SKELLY

137-138 base damage increased by (424% + 144% =568% ED) = 915-921 damage

1055 base AR increased by 110% = 2215 AR

Skelly level = 85

Arach level = 84, Defense = 374 (conviction)

100 * 2215/ (2215 + 374) * 2 * 85 / (85 + 84)

86% Chance to hit at 915-921 damage per hit

(Out of 100 attempted swings, on average it'd be 78690-79206)

TEH_BONEZ

137-138 base damage increased by (569 + 144% = 713% ED) = 1113-1121 damage

1055 base AR increased by (330% + 110% = 440%) = 5697 AR

Skelly level = 85

Arach level = 84, Defense = 2205

100 * 5697/ (5697 + 2205) * 2 * 85 / (85 + 84)

72% Chance to hit at 1113-1121 damage per hit

(Out of 100 attempted swings, on average it'd be 80136-80712)