Good PVM Barb?

[Hector]

Hey all, I need some advice for building a new classic barb. What yould be a good weapon/mastery for PvM? Mostly CS runs. I was considering BHammer/Shield, or Naga/Shield. What would you suggest?

Also, would Goblin Toe boots (25% Crushing Blow) help my damage noticeably, or should I look for some other boot?

Thanks.

[TheRenderer]

I wouldn't use 1 hand weapons for pvm just because they dont effect you the way using a 1 hand weapon in duels does. For instance, you can leech all the life.mana you lose in about one ww.You also have the advantage of doing more dmg with 2 handed wepons.

Quicker kill = faster clearing = faster exp.

[stanzaman]

I wouldn't use 1 hand weapons for pvm just because they dont effect you the way using a 1 hand weapon in duels does. For instance, you can leech all the life.mana you lose in about one ww.You also have the advantage of doing more dmg with 2 handed wepons.

Quicker kill = faster clearing = faster exp.

Well, a one handed weapon is better for choas runs as a WW while being IM'd may not be fatal due to lower damage. Plus a resists sheild will help you stay alive too. You will need a lot of leech if you go this route. Many barbs in CS runs nowadays just stand around an cast BO/Shout/BC and don't do much killing anyway (sad but true). I would go with a Bhammer myself as they are higher damage and you get a bonus versus undead - which will help in CS runs.

[TheRenderer]

Well, a one handed weapon is better for choas runs as a WW while being IM'd may not be fatal due to lower damage. Plus a resists sheild will help you stay alive too. You will need a lot of leech if you go this route. Many barbs in CS runs nowadays just stand around an cast BO/Shout/BC and don't do much killing anyway (sad but true). I would go with a Bhammer myself as they are higher damage and you get a bonus versus undead - which will help in CS runs.

True they are good to have with a nice res shield, but a skilled ww barb can clear a cs (one handed or not) within minutes.

Alot of barbs just ww everything without taking consideration of the surrounding foes and die from a IM.

The Martel still gives you the 50% damage to the undead, all mace class weapons do. I just find the benefit of power more demanding than a slower more careful course of action.

That's just me though :)

[Immortality]

True they are good to have with a nice res shield, but a skilled ww barb can clear a cs (one handed or not) within minutes.

Alot of barbs just ww everything without taking consideration of the surrounding foes and die from a IM.

The Martel still gives you the 50% damage to the undead, all mace class weapons do. I just find the benefit of power more demanding than a slower more careful course of action.

That's just me though :)

Lol, I have yet to see a skilled baba that can clear cs by himself in a 8 player game.

[TheRenderer]

It really is not hard. Considering a smart CS player only attacks the unique seal guards and leap over the rest of the fodder.

To be a skillful player, you need more than just the skill to ww. But to also recognize the surrounding areas and not do something stupid like ww a bunch of garbage doom knights where there may be 1-3 doom casters in the near area. It spells disaster.

Equipment plays a role, but not as much as one would think. Aslong as you have good res, good leech and vitality with a careful approach, it can be done...

[Zodijackyl]

Don't use a barb for CS runs... You can get a barb to 87 from Trav runs (I've done it), and 90 from river runs, but IM in cs kills the xp.

I would go for a martel barb with 250 or so base str to clear trav fast. Max FR/LR and 10LL 3ML you're good to go.

[TheRenderer]

*edit* this was never here

[fredsta54]

The best pvm "budget" barb setup- imo (not considering mf- which would nice)

Perf bsnap- i have found to kill faster than 300 dmg martel.
Goldskin- cheap, godly.
Gob toe- no subsitute
Angelic ring and ammy
Rare ring with fire/light resist, mana steal (the most important mod on this) and ar
Sigons belt, helm, and gloves- the needed life steal, ar, good defense on belt, resists, its a good package.

1 ww to kill /p8 monsters in hell. The reason bsnap > martel pvm , imo, the cb.


This is not the best setup, but, its the easy to acheieve- and damn effective


This is what i used to get my barb- "budgetbarb" to lvl 85 from solo hell river runs.

Oh yeah, get ~150 vita then pump strength all the way- on all pvm barbs- (other than mf/gf trav barbs)








Fred

[Zodijackyl]

The def on sig belt doesn't help much PvM, so I would go with bladebuckle for stats + FHR, or goldwrap for MF.

My HC S2 barb was alot like this, bsnap, angelic rings+ammy+armor (for 100mf), Sigs gloves/helm, goldwrap, and rare boots for res/mods. I think bsnap gives enough CB so rare boots can help more than gtoes. And for no ML, I just pick up the mana pots that drop :)

[fredsta54]

The def on sig belt doesn't help much PvM, so I would go with bladebuckle for stats + FHR, or goldwrap for MF.

My HC S2 barb was alot like this, bsnap, angelic rings+ammy+armor (for 100mf), Sigs gloves/helm, goldwrap, and rare boots for res/mods. I think bsnap gives enough CB so rare boots can help more than gtoes. And for no ML, I just pick up the mana pots that drop :)

you use sigons belt for the additional partial set bonuses you get while using helm + gloves.



Goblin toe will always be better than rares on melee chars. Also, the r/w potentially lowers ww dmg.







Fred

[Zodijackyl]

rares give resistance, which prevents you from dying easily to trav, where i like to level. also, 30fhr is useful, anything with fana will kill you without it =\

[Taft12]

you use sigons belt for the additional partial set bonuses you get while using helm + gloves.


I don't disagree with you often fred, but I'm going to have to dispute using Sig's belt. Besides the armor, it's the least useful part of the set and should rarely be used.

Helm
+25 Defense, +30 to Mana
+ (8 Per Character Level) 8-792 To Attack Rating (2 Items)

Gloves
+20 to Attack Rating, +10 to Strength
30% Increased Attack Speed (2 Items)

Belt
Fire Resist +20%, +20 to Life
+ (2 Per Character Level) 2-198 To Defense (2 Items)

Partial Set Bonus
+10% Life Stolen Per Hit (2 Items)
+100 Defense (3 Items)

Essentiall all you're getting from the belt is 20 FR, 20 Life and a big pile of def. I'm not a big fan of Bladebuckle either unless you're really hurting for FHR. I think a mediocre rare will beat them both.

[fredsta54]

I don't disagree with you often fred, but I'm going to have to dispute using Sig's belt. Besides the armor, it's the least useful part of the set and should rarely be used.

Helm
+25 Defense, +30 to Mana
+ (8 Per Character Level) 8-792 To Attack Rating (2 Items)

Gloves
+20 to Attack Rating, +10 to Strength
30% Increased Attack Speed (2 Items)

Belt
Fire Resist +20%, +20 to Life
+ (2 Per Character Level) 2-198 To Defense (2 Items)

Partial Set Bonus
+10% Life Stolen Per Hit (2 Items)
+100 Defense (3 Items)

Essentiall all you're getting from the belt is 20 FR, 20 Life and a big pile of def. I'm not a big fan of Bladebuckle either unless you're really hurting for FHR. I think a mediocre rare will beat them both.


Also note that that is my "budget barb" setup. A rare belt easily beats it, its just that the setup mentioned uses all easy to obtain uniques//sets. I forgot to mention that.

I think sigons belt with the helm and gloves> bladebuckle. However, a rare with +strength//life//resists beats it anyday.


A good rich mans pvm barb setup, in my eyes-

High defense ornate with resists and possibly life

War belt with above mods

Angelic ring and ammy

Goblin toe

perf bsnap

Sigons gloves and helm (yes, id use this over rares for the ar)

Rare ring with ar, resists, mana steal







Fred

[Zodijackyl]

Well, although I prefer rare belts, with no other FHR i think bladebuckle would work better (also, i believe the first FHR breakpoint is between 24 and 30). Also, 16 slots is nice, and because the rest of the build doesnt help with resistances, having some from here wouldnt change where you can and can't go.

[Zodijackyl]

Also note that that is my "budget barb" setup. A rare belt easily beats it, its just that the setup mentioned uses all easy to obtain uniques//sets. I forgot to mention that.

I think sigons belt with the helm and gloves> bladebuckle. However, a rare with +strength//life//resists beats it anyday.


A good rich mans pvm barb setup, in my eyes-

High defense ornate with resists and possibly life

War belt with above mods

Angelic ring and ammy

Goblin toe

perf bsnap

Sigons gloves and helm (yes, id use this over rares for the ar)

Rare ring with ar, resists, mana steal







Fred


Here's one of my "rich man" barb setups (magic finder):
Rings switch off depending on what im doing..
Ring1: 5LL 5ML 14str 26cr
Ring2: 9min 25life 30fr 20cr 20lr
Ring3: 9min 120ar 5ml 21fr 14mf
Ring4 (friend's prepatch legit, this is amazing): 6LL 6ML 29mf 15pris 131ar
Ammy: +1barb 20str 53mana 20pris 25mf ammy
Belt: Goldwrap
Boots: 30frw 78gf 24mf 40cr 40lr 15fr war boots
Gloves: 40mf chance guards
Helm: 50mf tarnhelm
Armor: Goldskin
Weapon: Martel De Fer: 179-262 dmg, 9LL 3ML 275ar +9min 165%ed 180dura

This is more or less my LS2 MF barb, except the pp ring is one a friend found a long time ago, and the first ring is from my LS1 mf baba :)

edit: angelics+sigons is more than enough AR for PvM, you don't even need both to hit something/someone with 10k def at level 80+

[fredsta54]

Yes, dual angelics is overkill for pvm. 1 angelic is not enough. Sigons + 1 angelic is just enough.


zodijackyl: there is an edit button. Just warning you because i myself have been warned for double posting in the past ;)






Fred

[Fearlessone]

...a skilled barb can clear cs (one-handed or not) within minutes. ...It really is not hard. Considering a smart CS player only attacks the unique seal guards and leap over the rest of the fodder.

To be a skillful player, you need more than just the skill to ww. But to also recognize the surrounding areas and not do something stupid like ww a bunch of garbage doom knights where there may be 1-3 doom casters in the near area. It spells disaster.

...As long as you have good res, good leech and vitality with a careful approach, it can be done... :uhhuh:

And u better have just leap and not leap attack, any high damage weapon with leap attack is deadly in 1.10. Even leaping ur way to the seals inflicts great damage with ur barb. Then popping the seal: u will almost always have mages about. Any attack except for warcry (ok only in one person games) or berserk will result in instadeath. And berserk will be SLOW, even if u have a decent lvl of warcry, u will still be taking TREMENDOUS :cyclops: damage while berserking the boss (if u can even get to him with the tons of monsters and minions about.) U can try to howl most of them away, u need to be at least lvl 80 to do this, but mages and any champs and the boss wont run away. Howl too should be a decent lvl to work for very long. This may require a skill point investment unless u get +2 barb ammy, tarn, etc.

Quite honestly, I dont see any barbs being able to do this well. I have tried and it sure is dangerous, and bad for experience like the other guys said if u are late 80's or beyond. Charge/hammers has some success, but its dangerous too for them. A tele/blizzard sorc can actually do this. With a good connection almost any sorc can safely get to center of cs and then over to a seal(at this point a good sorc with good connection NEVER dies), and TRY to open the seals with telekinesis, they may have to cast a few blizzards to get very far and often they have to tele out, back to the center and call for help, cuz they are using up full rejuvs faster than they are dropping.

U said "clear" cs, so that's why some ppl laughed at ur first comments. Of course if u kill all seal bosses and pop all 5 seals, it auto "clears" the cs.

I've been able to "clear" the hell cs without dying with several of my smartbarbs, but it took alot more than just a "few minutes". :wink2: Barbs and solo cs are not efficient: party!

[Noite Escura]

:uhhuh:

And u better have just leap and not leap attack, any high damage weapon with leap attack is deadly in 1.10.
Are you sure? According to this: http://www.diabloii.net/characters/barbarian/combat-skills.shtml Leap Attack is considered a ranged attack. Wrong info or early bug?

Sigons gloves and helm (yes, id use this over rares for the ar)
How much AR should be aimed for? I have almost no AR item on my lvl 65 Barb and he's doing fine thru act 2 hell as of now. Though I admit My lvl 5 Berserk often misses and it's a pain in the *** againt PI Mana Burn Specters...

[Fearlessone]

Absolutely sure. That's an old 1.03 vintage skill descriptor. Don't believe me, just get IM'd in any difficulty and hit a high life monster, and he will take major or fatal damage. 1.10 changed that with leap attack, which really sucked. Even my thrower barb in LoD died once while leapattacking thru the cs to just get around. His throwing axes did about 100 damage physical.

Mana burn from specters is unneccessary, just use any level of warcry to prevent them from interfering with berserk. My ww barbs always keep berserk on the left icon (left click) to kill PI's and avoid dying from IM.

[Noite Escura]

I just realize now that you actualy typed 1.10 in your first porst :o

[fredsta54]

Are you sure? According to this: http://www.diabloii.net/characters/barbarian/combat-skills.shtml Leap Attack is considered a ranged attack. Wrong info or early bug?


How much AR should be aimed for? I have almost no AR item on my lvl 65 Barb and he's doing fine thru act 2 hell as of now. Though I admit My lvl 5 Berserk often misses and it's a pain in the *** againt PI Mana Burn Specters...


You can do fine without "almost no +ar". Having +ar, however, will greatly increase your killing speed. A good amount of ar to reach for is at least 8k for pvm. How much do you have?









Fred

[Noite Escura]

1477 Berserk
1319 WW
With 46/43% chance to hit Specter. Guess I have to work on getting some more...

[fredsta54]

1477 Berserk
1319 WW
With 46/43% chance to hit Specter. Guess I have to work on getting some more...

yeah, thats low. I like to have at least 85%, more hits= more dmg.






Fred

[magnet]

when i think pvm barb, i think travincal, not cs. i guess because i'm a guy that uses the chaos sanc as a utility, rather than as a fun place to hang out...[xp for function, not xp for xp.....clvl 90 is the same to me as a 93+, except one took silly heaps of time to reach...].

travincal though, thats a place a barb can really stretch his wings and act like a barb, imo. and its no cake-walk. the council can be a pretty grumpy bunch, and in an eight player game they can be downright nasty. pound for pound they're meaner than anything cs can throw at you, iron maiden excluded.

the challenge i guess, when making/gearing a pvm barb is balancing between the vision and purpose of your barb, and function. if you're making a goldfind/mf barb, would be willing to sacrifice equipment slots to sets/uniques to get the attack rating you need?

sig helm+ gloves and angel ammy + ring and you'll have your attack rating...and thats about it....and you're "goldfind/mf" barb will lose flavor, not to mention suffer performance wise. sure you can kill, and you didnt "waste" any extra points by putting them somewhere other than vitality....but killing the monsters is just something you do to give your gear a chance to work. at the moment of death, when the killing is done, you should have gear thats still working for you. sacrificing the helm/glove/ammy/ring spot to sets for ar bonuses forces you to give up the possibilty of 400+ goldfind and 100+ mf, much resists, +skills...and the possibility of gaining more life leech, and str/dex bonuses than with the sets....handy stuff for the actual killing.

and flavor. don't forget the flavor. fully equipping a barb with goldfind gear thats top notch and ideal for the killing power, survivablity, and productivity of your gf/mf barb is a blast....or im weird maybe. comparing gf/mf rares with a fellow trav runner.....drooling over obscure baubles and oft overlooked mods...good stuff. but you gotta have that ar , yea.

so--how about..you put some hard points in dexterity? :clap: the idea that a barb that doesnt have every available point in vitality is "ruined" is silly to me, not to mention inaccurate. i know nobody has exactly made this comment here, but it seems to be the general outlook of most people i talk to...why, i dont know. 2.2k - 2.5k life w/ bo and 4.5k-5kish [higher with nice +dex/ar etc]attack rating is plenty for p8 hell trav [coupled with a proper weapon]. if you adjust yourself to include lifeleech as a higher priority on your gear, and try to squeeze it in where ever it can spawn. 12% for function id say, 23% end goal. [with ml, ive found 3% satisfies easy.]

i guess thats part of the fun im talking [or ranting] about here...trying to get the highest %'s of lifeleech, magicfind, resists, with stat and ar bonuses [plus all the nifty mods you can get on boots/belts], all the while requiring a close to perfect goldfind % as a prerequisite, in every slot....a real challenge.

[fredsta54]

With a gf//mf trav runner i would use rares and pump dex, theirs no contest. However, if your looking for simple pvm barb, or even an pure mf barb (not worrrying about gf) i would go.. ~150 vita and rest to strength.

[Zodijackyl]

I would go for 200-250 vitality because the lightning/fire/cold enchanted council members can easily take 1.5k in less than one second. My ladder MF barb currently has 240str and 210vit (Level 80), but with any less than maximum resists he dies in trav. sigons helm and belt work to give me about 4000 AR, which is pretty good on a mauler.
My non ladder gold find barb uses a bec, which is alot of fun. The items and base dex give me about 4500 ar with a lower AR bec (130ish ar from it because of eme socket and a resist), and this works fine. I have a nice amulet for him also, +2barb +46ar pris and 68gf. bec/lance barbs are good with only the required stats and alot of life, but I still love maulers, especially with 240-350 str. The reason I only aim for very high str on mace barbs is because only bh/wclub/martel get the 110str bonus. Sword barbs are poor mfers to me because the 170/110 leaves low vitality and damage usually much lower than a mauler with the same amount of vit and pumped str.

Just to give my barbs some credibility, here are the levels I have from leveling off trav runs and flayering, no CS.
87 Martel MF DamageDone *ZodijackylLight [LS2]
86 Bec GF SotC *UM-Zodijackyl (almost 87, will be soon)
85 Sword MF UM-Deathcrush *UM-Zodijackyl
85 Lance MF/GF Damage-Done *UM-Zodijackyl
84 Axe speeder UM-CHRiSTLiAR *UM-Angelcorpse
80 BSnap MF MURDERER-bfd *UM-ZodijackylX [HARDCORE LS2]
80 Sword PvP BvA UM-Godcrusher *tshangthong
79 Maul MF/GF Insineratehymn *NAPALMSTIX2KIDS [LS3]
78 Lance PvP speeder OnYourCorpse-GF *GF-5
77 Axe PvP speeder UeZ *Zodijackyl
75 Axe PvM MF UM-FVCKYOURGOD *UM-Angelcorpse

I still have all of these with the exception of UM-Deathcrush, who I brought to LoD then deleted to remake as a classic BvB, and UM-CHRiSTLiAR, who I made for a friend who quit D2. Any chars not marked as ladder are NL Softcore.

[fredsta54]

For me- "budgetbarb" lvl 86 barbarian. Not even a baron, hasnt stepped in the cs once.

Gear- 300ed bsnap
Gskin
Angelic ring and ammy
Gob toe
Rare fr/lr/ar/mana leach ring
Sigon belt, gloves, and helm.

No mf in mind, just pure carnage. With this he gets- ~1.3k ww. 9k ar. 65% crushing blow. Max fire//light resist, ~50 cold//psn res. ~1.8k life.

His gear isnt the best, but i think its the best pvm setup for someone who doesnt play a lot, and still wants to pwn. He is a machine.











Fred

[Fearlessone]

when i think pvm barb, i think travincal, not cs. i guess because i'm a guy that uses the chaos sanc as a utility, rather than as a fun place to hang out...[xp for function, not xp for xp.....clvl 90 is the same to me as a 93+, except one took silly heaps of time to reach...].

...travincal though, thats a place a barb can really stretch his wings and act like a barb, imo. and its no cake-walk. the council can be a pretty grumpy bunch, and in an eight player game they can be downright nasty. pound for pound they're meaner than anything cs can throw at you, iron maiden excluded.

2.2k - 2.5k life w/ bo and 4.5k-5kish [higher with nice +dex/ar etc]attack rating is plenty for p8 hell trav ...a real challenge.
And where are these travincal games, hmm? I never see them on the list. Put one on, and lots of act1 ppl might join, confusing it with tristram runs. Obviously you guys are joining other games and doing fast travs. Maybe u are joining cs runs or cow runs, trade games, act1 games and getting all the 8 person exp for urself, without the 35% party exp boost (still lots of exp). You wont get the good mf and gold find in a single person game, thats obvious.

That becomes a drag playing alone in a big game. No wonder u and so many others have mostly vanished. I admit, it beats having to deal with IM in the cs and Blizzards near total failure to think about 1.10 in classic.

I agree that lvl 93 vs 90 isnt any worthwhile difference. All u can get are 3 extra skill points that might help boost ur BO if u scrimped on that earlier due to pumping some synergy. And its just too damned difficult to go much higher than 93. And we should be able to go higher, danged blizzard.

You dont talk about any techniques in trav runs here. Sounds like u just barrel into the front of that temple and ww'ing with ur maul. Lawnmowing. My barbs use taunt to clear the area of healing mages, council minions, poison spitting snakes, chicken zealots. 2.2-2.5K barb life - thats a minimum of safety, typical of exec barbs. Maul barbs can do without the 110 dex and even the 169 str req of martels if they go bsnap.