CS techniques (a couple questions)

[StolenFlipFlops]

Hello everyone.. New member here. I hadn't a clue there was an active forum for classic d2 - this is a welcome suprise.

I have a couple questions regarding CS'ing. I play hardcore classic on USEast and currently only use a sorc and bowazon, but am also close to hell cs with my lance barbarian. Anyhow, due to the lack of hell cow games on hccl everyone seems to CS in hell for experience (which I like.. cows is so uneventful).

So my questions are.. How are melee characters dealing with iron maiden? Do they simply tank and leech while other characters kill? Would a 6 socket pike with 6pskulls and lots of life leech items do the trick? How do YOU deal with this and how do others you know?

Also, I notice the majority of monsters in cs are undead. Would it be wise to find a 6 socket gothic or 5 socket rune equipped with pdiamonds to deal masssive damage? Has anyone tried this?

Any opinions or thoughts are greatly appreciated.

[Hector]

Iron Maiden: I'm not very used to playing Melee characters at all (I play only bowazons, javazons and sorcs). Barbarians could use Berserk skill or wait until they are cursed with something different. Melee Paladins could use Cleansing skill to reduce the curse duration, or an elemental skill like Vengeance, that's what I can think about...

As for the bowazon, you would do good damage against undead, but what about the Demons? Your damage with a plain socketed bow would be awful against Venom Lords, and CS is full of them.

I've found best Amazon builds for CS are javazon (pure lightning/vitality route), or a cold/physical bowazon (use a high damage bow, max Freezing Arrow and Cold Arrow, use Guided to kill the Obliv Knigths that are the only Cold Immunes).

I'll write a classic PvM bowazon guide someday.

[StolenFlipFlops]

Iron Maiden: I'm not very used to playing Melee characters at all (I play only bowazons, javazons and sorcs). Barbarians could use Berserk skill or wait until they are cursed with something different. Melee Paladins could use Cleansing skill to reduce the curse duration, or an elemental skill like Vengeance, that's what I can think about...

As for the bowazon, you would do good damage against undead, but what about the Demons? Your damage with a plain socketed bow would be awful against Venom Lords, and CS is full of them.

I've found best Amazon builds for CS are javazon (pure lightning/vitality route), or a cold/physical bowazon (use a high damage bow, max Freezing Arrow and Cold Arrow, use Guided to kill the Obliv Knigths that are the only Cold Immunes).

I'll write a classic PvM bowazon guide someday.

Well normally when doing CS runs we get a TP from the pentagram and go straight for the seals. Naturally a zon with a diamond bow would go for the the left and top. I think the majority of the monsters you run into are oblivion knights, venom lords really don't seem that common (I know there are ALWAYS some, but there just aren't many of them compared to undeads).

Regardless I will try it out and see how it works, if it's no good I'll just continue with my rune bow.

I don't like javazons, my favorite character still remains the bowazon with strafe/ga or multi/ga but since the guided arrow being patched they're definately the weakest character. I still think they are the funnest, even if you don't get to kill anything.

Any other thoughts on the topic are still appreciated! :)

[Immortality]

Iron Maiden: Best Band eva :p

ok on a serious note, Baba + IM + ww + Monster = A dead baba :D

Simply put, you ww a monster while curse with IM, your a dead man. Leeching was nerfed in 1.10(im not sure about 1.11) so don't count on that to save your hide.

If you want to Cs, use a hammerdin :D.

Zons Csing? lol thats funny.

[stanzaman]

Curious about what you said about diamond bows, I made a 6 diamond gothic bow for my hapless level 87 Bowazon from previous patches, and joined a choas run. Only to find that she still sucks as much as she ever did :(

[fredsta54]

Bowazons can solo chaos sanc. Solo, and in a group if theirs conc. :)









Fred

[Fearlessone]

So my questions are.. How are melee characters dealing with iron maiden? Do they simply tank and leech while other characters kill? Would a 6 socket pike with 6pskulls and lots of life leech items do the trick? How do YOU deal with this and how do others you know.
:wave:
They seem to stand around and do nothing after having given bo. At least in LoD u have a choice to exit the game when u see Oblivion Knights in Baal's throneroom and try for a game that is mage-free. And this is my experience just from softcore. I wouldnt dare try a multihit barb in cs runs in hc under any conditions.

Leeching: cut in nm and then again in hell. In LoD u can find items to overcome some of this, especially the damage redux items. Also u can get those gloves that cast lifetap in Lod. Blizzard could care less what 1.10 did to classic. :grrr: Even my necro casting lifetap for barbs in Nm couldnt save them. In hell, even if u have massive life leech and lifetap curse on every monster, u cannot get back up to the safe lvls to survive, which used to be 40-50% leech. 6 pskulls in a pike, thats 24% leech and so what? Before 1.10 barbs would get about 11% leech from an soj socketed rare, now they dont even bother to put in a pskull unless they need mana. U might survive with a pike since at 45 damage, thats about 1/7 that of a good lance. Still, it could be deadly. And it will kill slow even with a pemerald to stop rehealing.

River runs: here is where u can avoid IM, if u stay at least 2 screens from the cs. But the fat loot is from diablo and seal bosses, and the big exp is from diablo, critical for super high lvls. Monster lvls are about mlvl 80 in both places, but diablo is mlvl 90. River runs require a fairly large hc population, which is what u dont have nowadays. Sorcies, necros, hammerdins and fohers, bowazons all could care less about iron maiden on you, as long as u are a stooge who gives bo and stands around without causing trouble.

Multihit skills such as zeal, ww, and frenzy are almost always fatal when IM'd. Other skills seem to be alot safer, although I've never had a super high lvl smiter with max HS/smite. They take alot of IM damage even with a weak smite. Jabazons should be toast too in the cs. Lightning fury zons are an elemental attack and are safe.

Berserk: safest for barbs in cs, since all is converted to magic damage. In killing a mage they will badly decrep u, try to charge up to them and use a little warcry then berserk away. Berserk has decent damage even at lvl 1, but is still a bit slow unless u get alot in it and is, well, boring compared to most killer skills in this game. Use a 2 handed weapon and warcry can be ur shield with this skill.

Warcry: absolutely necessary for high level SOFTcore ww and frenzy barbs with high damage weapons to level up and actually fight. Since there arent anymore river runs, u can choose between cow and cs. Cow games dont give the exp they used to, and between lvls 83-88 less and less. Cows are lvl 78. So the really high lvls go to cs and u will too. Ww without warcrying the nearby mages first is deadly. Over 90% of high lvl barbs dont know this :scratch:, and never will figure it out. :bonk: Most players do a buffing skill and one fighting skill and thats it, anything extra is a pain. So warcry has never caught on. Note that I'm not discussing pure warcry barbs here; their physical damage still isnt melee.

The safe party cs barb: uses bo, some shout, battlecommand, a decent lvl warcry around mobs, howls when necessary, taunts when safest, may use berserk as main attack. Warcry as a main attack can, since 1.10, be deadly to u and some of ur party cuz of lightning bosses. (the old style multishot bosses were nerfed to these hidden ones with high damage) It's so hard to hover the cursor over them and light up their stats. Many have hidden hi damage bolts, that is sometimes I never seem to see any bolts, so u have to test sparingly any warcry if there is an unknown boss nearby. You may hear the bolts, but damned if some charged bolt sorc wont be there covering up its noise and making it impossible to detect. That means one warcry cast every 5 seconds, which should be safe, till u can see what is going on.

[Murrogh]

Mostly barbs just leech experience and give battle orders. try to get as high level battle orders as you can and rather than shunning you as a leecher people will love to have you in the game.