1.11 Grotesque Bear, help with mauler weapons;

[MrGoth]

I'm bringing back the origonal Macabre {.09 maul bear}, that I left off v.3 or 4 as Mortified, into the realms.

A little history; Macabre was clvl 76 when he was first made {clan honor dueling}, and hit 91 on the second time I made him {elected for sage instead of how}. Then I made him once again, but chose to save the name for a barb & use Mortified, who can be seen here (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/197185/Screenshot042.5.jpg) and here (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/197185/Screenshot043.5.jpg). He hit about 87 or so before I got bored with him.


Now I'm sacrificing alot to get some charms that I was origonally going to use to rebuild MrGoth {.08 feral/fury druid}, but while going threw my mules, I found the exact same armor, shield, and belt that I used on the origonal Macabre {ecarapec / legit 08 ss / dungos shown in those pictures}, and I think it would be much more ammusing to make another mauler...for 1.11.

Its the last thing you would expect to see romping around in a pubby, no?



As always, with all my character builds, this is obviously going to have many many major flaws. The main thing I see now will be the total lack of %frw {due to the armor I'm using, and only haveing 20% from boots, I'll have 10% frw total}.


The gear I will be using;
~eth carapace {with a -req/+res all jewel}
~08 ss {will have to find another legit -req/+res all jewel for this in place of um}
~dungos
~gories {upped if I can find some}
~jalas {possibly upped & eth - zod'd, if not than normal um one}
~blood fist {double upped so I can have 6 frame fhr}
~1x bul kathos, raven frost, and highlords
~cta on switch with spirit, with coh / shako / maras / arachnids / 2nd bul kathos in stash for prebuffing
~hoto also in stash for prebuffing shifts & sage with spirit.


I'm trying my *** off to get 9x +44 or +45 hit point shifting grand charms, and I have a p druid hellfire & 20 stat anni, along with some random + hit point small charms with various first modes {most +res}.


I plan on maxing sage again, along with maul / wb / & laco. I also love carrion vine, and will put one point into raven & spirit wolves, along with one point into hunger & shock wave. After all that I will have 23 extra skill points unused, so does anyone have any practical suggestions?

When i'm fully prebuffed, with bo & shifting's, I'll have the following;
~lvl 51 wb & laco
~lvl 20 bo
~lvl 38 sage

And when i'm in my attacking mode, i'll be working a level 40 maul.

His resistance wont be that impressive;
~Jalas {30 or 45}
~armor {15}
~shield {15}
~charms {36}

Thats just +96 all res, not counting the massive lighting & cold resist I'll get from my shield, armor, and amulet... Possibly more if I keep the um in my shield and dont work with an eth jalas.

I am trying to get this guy to have even higher deffense than the first one, hopefully with this many +skills, and working with upgraded gear's, I can break 15k.




On to the major request of help for this thread, I have no idea what weapon to use on him.

Greif sadly wont be fast enough, in my opinion. I dont want to swing less than 7 frames.

I could use an ebotd zerk and slap at 6 frames, and the damage on it would make that level 40 maul really really really nasty.

I used a beast caddy on this guy at first, and threwout his life mainly because it gave me +40 str for tweaking, and he was rebuilt in 1.10 as Mortified to help take down uber diablo...but I'm not sure the damage on a beast caddy would really cut it {although it does still = pure sex in style, no?}.

I checked the damage on an eth zod'ed 4x shael rune master, but its still not good enough compared to an ebotd zerker.

And finally I also looked at some of the unique flails, but all of the net physcial damage just isnt impressing me.

{since this guy is more deffensive / hit point orientated, 110/+ar or 110/+30 res all pb's might not help at all, I would like to see this guy break 11k hit points by 95 instead of swinging with no damage at 4 frames :lol: }




This is really long...sorry if I just bored the crap out of you. But thanks in advance for any help.

[Mastashanglang]

I'm bringing back the origonal Macabre {.09 maul bear}, that I left off v.3 or 4 as Mortified, into the realms.

A little history; Macabre was clvl 76 when he was first made {clan honor dueling}, and hit 91 on the second time I made him {elected for sage instead of how}. Then I made him once again, but chose to save the name for a barb & use Mortified, who can be seen here (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/197185/Screenshot042.5.jpg) and here (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/197185/Screenshot043.5.jpg). He hit about 87 or so before I got bored with him.


Now I'm sacrificing alot to get some charms that I was origonally going to use to rebuild MrGoth {.08 feral/fury druid}, but while going threw my mules, I found the exact same armor, shield, and belt that I used on the origonal Macabre {ecarapec / legit 08 ss / dungos shown in those pictures}, and I think it would be much more ammusing to make another mauler...for 1.11.

Its the last thing you would expect to see romping around in a pubby, no?



As always, with all my character builds, this is obviously going to have many many major flaws. The main thing I see now will be the total lack of %frw {due to the armor I'm using, and only haveing 20% from boots, I'll have 10% frw total}.


The gear I will be using;
~eth carapace {with a -req/+res all jewel}
~08 ss {will have to find another legit -req/+res all jewel for this in place of um}
~dungos
~gories {upped if I can find some}
~jalas {possibly upped & eth - zod'd, if not than normal um one}
~blood fist {double upped so I can have 6 frame fhr}
~1x bul kathos, raven frost, and highlords
~cta on switch with spirit, with coh / shako / maras / arachnids / 2nd bul kathos in stash for prebuffing
~hoto also in stash for prebuffing shifts & sage with spirit.


I'm trying my *** off to get 9x +44 or +45 hit point shifting grand charms, and I have a p druid hellfire & 20 stat anni, along with some random + hit point small charms with various first modes {most +res}.


I plan on maxing sage again, along with maul / wb / & laco. I also love carrion vine, and will put one point into raven & spirit wolves, along with one point into hunger & shock wave. After all that I will have 23 extra skill points unused, so does anyone have any practical suggestions?

When i'm fully prebuffed, with bo & shifting's, I'll have the following;
~lvl 51 wb & laco
~lvl 20 bo
~lvl 38 sage

And when i'm in my attacking mode, i'll be working a level 40 maul.

His resistance wont be that impressive;
~Jalas {30 or 45}
~armor {15}
~shield {15}
~charms {36}

Thats just +96 all res, not counting the massive lighting & cold resist I'll get from my shield, armor, and amulet... Possibly more if I keep the um in my shield and dont work with an eth jalas.

I am trying to get this guy to have even higher deffense than the first one, hopefully with this many +skills, and working with upgraded gear's, I can break 15k.




On to the major request of help for this thread, I have no idea what weapon to use on him.

Greif sadly wont be fast enough, in my opinion. I dont want to swing less than 7 frames.

I could use an ebotd zerk and slap at 6 frames, and the damage on it would make that level 40 maul really really really nasty.

I used a beast caddy on this guy at first, and threwout his life mainly because it gave me +40 str for tweaking, and he was rebuilt in 1.10 as Mortified to help take down uber diablo...but I'm not sure the damage on a beast caddy would really cut it {although it does still = pure sex in style, no?}.

I checked the damage on an eth zod'ed 4x shael rune master, but its still not good enough compared to an ebotd zerker.

And finally I also looked at some of the unique flails, but all of the net physcial damage just isnt impressing me.

{since this guy is more deffensive / hit point orientated, 110/+ar or 110/+30 res all pb's might not help at all, I would like to see this guy break 11k hit points by 95 instead of swinging with no damage at 4 frames :lol: }




This is really long...sorry if I just bored the crap out of you. But thanks in advance for any help.


i've never made a mauler b4 but is it like a smiter except the attack is blockable? just wondering

[MrGoth]

It stuns like smite, which doesnt work in pvp. It can go about 2 frames faster than smite with a 110% ias phase blade, but thats sacrificing alot of damage {with this gear / charm setup atleast}. Its blockable, and requires attackrating to hit, thus its a real melee skill, unlike smite :).

[Mastashanglang]

It stuns like smite, which doesnt work in pvp. It can go about 2 frames faster than smite with a 110% ias phase blade, but thats sacrificing alot of damage {with this gear / charm setup atleast}. Its blockable, and requires attackrating to hit, thus its a real melee skill, unlike smite :).

what do u mean??? stun does work in pvp

[Tor]

goth, why the carapace?

use a stone :)

its cheap and my non eth one has over 2000 def and the str, vit and fhr are nice(fhr takes care of liek 80% of your fhr needs and it has 15% resist all

i still have your banana sword :P

[Bigrob]

what do u mean??? stun does work in pvp

stun, the swirling animation, does not work in pvp.

the "stun" ur talking about is when ur struck by attack and a few sec u wont be able to move if u have poor fhr. the actual stun on maul is about 3 sec stunning, which doesnt apply to pvp.

[Lyrs]

In pubby duels, most melee that I've met are zealots. From my experience, their life will be 3k, 4k at most. My bva will sometimes go werewolf for those duels and it usually only takes 2 to 3 hits to kill them with a greif zerker. In werebear, with the lack of AR on the barb, it's harder to hit them, but again, all you need are a couple of good hits. Lifetap will be a pain, but who cares anyway?

I'd go with a Grief phase for main dmg and possibly gris/shaeled-phase for charging maul.

[MrGoth]

Charging maul might be a great idea, since unlike most builds out there this guy should be able to tank like a mofo {multiple ww's / smites / whatever}.

The problem with greif, even in a pb, is the attack speed is still a bit slow {30% to 40% ias still = 8 frame attack}.




I choose carapace because its all about the sex appeal. Why would you talk about the banana in the same responce while questioning the sexyness?

Anyways, those of us who have x-ray vision can see strait threw the fur and still see the nasty etheral black metal.


Really, I already have the armor, and its been named Macabre's, so I might as well use it on Macabre again. With its 20% fhr, dungos 10%, jalas 30%, and blood fists 30% i'll have 90%, which is enough for 6 frames.




edits; No stun doesnt work, but if used properlly I believe it can cause people to go into hit recovery animation. If I recall, spaming shockwave {even lvl 1}, stunned some guys long enough that every time I swiped them, they went into block or hit recovery animation...

^that was with a fc bear, i'm not sure if maul's stun would override this, if it even works like that^



And again, with a total of 10% frw, and close to horrible res, this guy wont do much outside of melee dueling. I know alot of people will be getting a headache from this, b/c i say it so much...but its fun to have a challenge, even more so when every odd is against you {unless your dueling bvc barbs or any other shieldless melee, then they are just as dumb as i am}.




edit #2; btw tor, did I sell you my p-caddy {360/Lo}, or my other one that wasnt quite...right? I'm trying to rebuild my fuzzball too.

[Tor]

i dotn haev any caddys

maybe a really bad one somewhere..
i MIGHT have your misjooled caddy...

[Voice]

I think you will find that if you use mass ss gc's w/ + life you will be struggling big time in the ar department. You will also find out that you will probably have a problem with angelics ( I know you said highlords, just saying.. ) b/c you need the mass ds thats on highlords. I've tried a similar build to what your doing mass defence w/ +ss gc's and My guy didnt have the ar. I used:

2.7k prudence
200 ed eth zoded up'ed jalals
highlords
2 x up'ed bloods
raven/120ar/50+life ring
up'ed gores
dungos
shael'ed ss
griz caddy / pb.

9 x 39+life ss gcs + druid torch

I lacked ar badly .. I am supposed to be looking for ar/max gc's to test those out but i just havent had the time. btw my ar was like 15-16k. It isnt enough to hit even fort using wolves consistently much less pallys or barbs.A

[MrGoth]

I remember attackrating being annoying, my listed guy above never broke 9k {didnt have enchant although, but that was with fanatism from beast :lol: }.

I will most likely keep an angelic set in my stash, and I might try to swap some of my res / hp sc's for ar / hp, although that means more trading :(.

The eth rune in the ebotd might help, but wont go far vrs %edeffense things like holy shield / shout / ect. I'll have to work around the attack rating some more.


Question for you, is that 200%deff / eth upp'ed jalas on non ladder sc west by any chance? & if so, is it for trade? :)

[aznbboi16]

To clear things up, stun has an effect in pvp. Not the same as hitting a monster and watching them stand/walk for the listed duration.
In pvp, a character with the stun swirl over their head (from mind blast, maul, smite) will be put in hit recovery any time they take damage. This will last however many frames your hit recovery is (not a few seconds). Characters using an uninterruptible skill will not be affected and will remain uninterruptible.

[F1R3STR1D3R]

To clear things up, stun has an effect in pvp. Not the same as hitting a monster and watching them stand/walk for the listed duration.
In pvp, a character with the stun swirl over their head (from mind blast, maul, smite) will be put in hit recovery any time they take damage. This will last however many frames your hit recovery is (not a few seconds). Characters using an uninterruptible skill will not be affected and will remain uninterruptible.

Any player with an uninterruptible skill (concentrate paladin, concentrate barbarian) will not go into faster hit recovery animation from stun?

[aznbboi16]

While using an uninterruptible skill, a character cannot be put in hit recovery/block animation by anything.

[GandalfTheGhey]

I haven't dueled seriously in 1.10 so, this is from 1.09 memory. If anything doesn't apply just ignore.

I am not sure what your obscession is with hit recovery. Smiters maybe?

Just go for the first easy frames and have done with it. Lag will usually get you out of stun lock. I don't think its worth sacrificing good gear ( bloodfists... you need GOOD gloves ) for a couple more frames.

If you ask me its all about weapon speed. I don't think there is a better weapon then a 110 IAS phase. Unfortunately.....

You just need to hit at 4 frames. 7, 6 , 5 doesn't cut it. Speed is your advantage. Speed is your ONLY advantage.

The stun on maul does in fact work. You hit a guy and if he doesn't block ( and you don't miss ) he will be put into hit recovery, no matter how much life he has. In other words if he was about to swing... no more swing, he goes through his hit recovery animation, and you have that much time to get off another hit. This is where the 4 frame swing comes in.

I remember dueling another bear with a 5 frame swing against my 4 frame. There was no comparison. The faster speed always wins.

Now the only problem is, where do you get damage. In 1.09 I got it from min damage jewels socketed in my armor. I had a godly ( forgot what type ) armor of the whale with +72 to min damage. I figured since the phase blade's min damage is pretty close to max this was the best bet. I also got some min damage on rings and socketed my helm ( gaze I think ) with a min damage jewel. Despite what you might guess, I did not use bloodfists. I needed the space for a 6 / 3 crafted leech glove.

I totalled around 150 min damage every swing ( the max is +1 whatever the min damage is IIRC ).

Back then everyone was using +max charms. But I traded for 10 shapeshifting charms with 40 life. I figured they gave me more bang for my charmspace ( +life + ar + damage + defense ).

I used HOW instead of oak. I needed all the +damage and AR i could get with my setup.

I also left my vitality at base and pumped everything that wasn't needed for max blocking into strength. I had around 450+ strength if I remember right. My life was about 3500 or more. The +shapeshifting charms helped that a lot.

My damage was about 1000 uncharged, and around 1800 charged, with around 50% chance of a critical.

My AR was only around 8000 or so, but those were the days of the eth bug and noone bothered about defense :D

The basic idea was to swing so fast and cause either stun or blocklock untill the opponent died. It worked very well too. No melee character except a barb ( with whirlwind :( ) could stand toe to toe with a 4 frame werebear.

That was 1.09.

In 1.10 of course, everyone else has nasty ethereal weapons and you don't. They also have teleport.... and you don't.

I dare say they've screwed the ( non-fireclaw ) wearbear in PVP. But it is possible that some of the old tricks still apply.

[MrGoth]

I haven't dueled seriously in 1.10 so, this is from 1.09 memory. If anything doesn't apply just ignore.

No worries :).

I am not sure what your obscession is with hit recovery. Smiters maybe?

Smiters, trappers, in general being hit from anything. 7 frames isnt that impressive, being that smite itself is a 6 frame attack.

bloodfists... you need GOOD gloves )

Blood fists provide more than fhr, +hp from them alone will add so much, and this is a tank orientated build, so these gloves not only make up for 3 grand charm slots {or 2 grand charms + 2 small charms}, but they also add a buttload of hit points themselves while conserving +hp from the charms.

I'm also {sadly} a mannered dueler, so drac's are out except for pvm, but even then, i'll most likely use crafted cb gloves & switch to my beast caddy.

If you ask me its all about weapon speed. I don't think there is a better weapon then a 110 IAS phase.

The main reason you dont see maulers in 1.10+ duels is that hit recovery & block lock has been removed. Its also why fury wolves are alot less effective, and shockwave bears are almost a thing of the past. After reading threw alot of recent guides, its a general idea now to go with balanced speed & damage...damage being the killer. The average damage on a 110ias pb is less than 70, while hitting at 4 frames is good. The average damage on an ebotdz is around 300, give or take. While attacking about twice as slow, I get more than 3x the damage.

Speedy builds dont really work that effectivly without block lock. They still work somewhat, but the effort to getting a 4 frame maul or 7/4 fury isnt worth the damage cut. Thats why you see alot of fury druids running around with greifs now.

Even worse, with cta's giving bo, & wisp's / hoto giving oak sage to anyone that uses them, its almost standard for normaly fragile casters to have 1.5k+ hit points, 2k+ if they are "rich," and paladins being the worst as they natuarlly have some what good hit points, and with prebuffing bo & casting a sage for themselves, I've seen zealots & hammeradins with over 5k by themselves. No mater how fast you attack, theres no way in hell a low damage weapon will take that down quick enough, not when this level of hit points is acheivable from any character class :( .



Sadly the only tricks that will still apply, other than possibly throwing out a shock wave before going into melee with another melee, is the natural hit point advantage. Here in this build, I'm trying to explore this & almost abuse the massive % hp that a bear can get, while still being able to recover from an attack fast enough to try and deliver a blow on my own.


Attack rating still keeps poping up to be a problem, will definatly have a limb & angelics in the stash, but that wont cut it.

[GandalfTheGhey]

Smiters, trappers, in general being hit from anything. 7 frames isnt that impressive, being that smite itself is a 6 frame attack.

Well that was were the 4 frame attack came in. If the smiter had a 2 frame hit recovery / block rate and a 6 frame attack that is 8 frames right there, you swing twice in 8 frames, therefore the smiter almost never gets an attack in. Your hit recovery never mattered.

But this was in 1.09. If I read your post right, you say they don't go into hit recovery if you hit them with maul anymore?

Even worse, with cta's giving bo, & wisp's / hoto giving oak sage to anyone that uses them, its almost standard for normaly fragile casters to have 1.5k+ hit points, 2k+ if they are "rich," and paladins being the worst as they natuarlly have some what good hit points, and with prebuffing bo & casting a sage for themselves, I've seen zealots & hammeradins with over 5k by themselves.

Ya thats why I didn't bother picking up dueling again in 1.10. I saw enigma, CTA, HOTO, exile, doom, BOTD ( the old ITH weapon reborn ) and said to myself "whats the point?". Its like they are encouraging BM dueling.

[MrGoth]

The problem with smiters is most use exile, and by nature of the build max holy shield & most likely a pure smiter maxed defiance, meaning they will have easily 30+k deffense.

Even if you were to attack at 4 frames, landing a hit is the hard part. The stun is nice, as if you actually hit him twice in a row, he will be put in hit recovery with the second hit {stun causes people to go in hit recovery as mentioned a few times above, but only after its inflicted}.

Thus, for a 4 frame mauler to be effective, he would have to hit him atleast twice just to get the pally in hit recovery, as with their hit points, there's very little chance that the damage of one maul swipe will cause him to go into hit recovery with the damage of a 4 frame weapon :( .


Again, I'm just toying with ideas here. In my mind, using the ebotd would help me break some deffense {eth rune, wont work that much vrs holy shield/shout/ect}, while also landing a very powerful blow, even if it is at half the speed.

I'll most likely pick up a huge amount of weapons to toy with, I already dug up my ebotd giant threasher for him to use on switch, and am looking desperatly for a ferocious phase blade of quicky with 3 sockets {although I havnt seen one since .09}. While i'm at it & assuming I find some mannered duelers to help me experiment, I'll either trade for a nice 110% ias pb or throw 6 shaels in a clean one for the hell of it.





edits; keep it going & other people should chime in too, this is helping me plan out alot of details. :thumbsup:

[inkanddagger]

Remeber, zeal is bugged as an uninterruptable attack now, so wolves, other bears, and zerk barbs are the only thing you will benefit from the stun with.

[Voice]

No its on USEAST nl and its not ft atm.

[World Eater]

I don't think Zeal is bugged - IIRC, it was stated in the 1.11 patch notes the "Zeal has now been made un-interruptable".

What about Gris weapon with shael + 3 ED/IAS? 5 frames is still very fast, and the damage you get from it is still respectable.

[MrGoth]

I doubt this guy will be able to do much other than tank. He will have good fhr, and I'm thinking about shael'ing a 09 ss instead of using a 08 one, for high block rate, but with life tap from paladins / dynamic ww barbs, this guy will most likely be put up for private duels.

Gris caddy is a good idea also, I always liked the black tip on it compared to a schaffers, would compliment the armor greatly while this guy is in a channel or in town :). {its a good weapon too, will have to add to the list for testings}.

Does anyone know of any ferocious pb's of quicky on west that might possibly be for trade?

[Voice]

Even though statistically pb does more damage over time I've been finding that i do better in duels w/ caddy. I think its mainly b/c duels dont last as long as they used to so the extra damage per hit seems to be better than move damage over time.

Ds is almost essential too. My best set up included guilliums, gores, highlords for mass ds.