Possible "True" Liberator?

[DoC-Makaveli]

It just came to my mind that it may be possible to make a real (like 09 ones with foh+hammer+charge) liberator w/ grief... has anyone tried it?

From my grief v/t, my charge damage is very nice without syns so it seems to me that you could go with base 1 charge w/o syns with grief and sitll get nice charge damage and you could possibly put those points into foh/convic/holyshock instead... I think I may try this... im thinking:

Griffon's Hat
+2 Pala / 20 fcr amulet
hoto
enigma
herald
trangs gloves
arachnid
stats/res boots
switch weap: grief zerk
switch shield: herald
raven
soj

charms: 9x combat w/ life, torch, anni, 10x dmg/life sc

or maybe... instead of the hoto/herald/soj... use foh stick, spirit, fcr ring (could possibly carry both of these setups depending on what im dueling).... what do you guys think?????

[foh pally]

need a skill pts distribution chart before we can tell you what we think

[DoC-Makaveli]

im not sure...

maybe 1 convic, 20 conc, 20 hammer, 20 vig, 20 baim.... rest split between foh and holy shock in whatever makes the best dmg... i'd be willing to go to lvl 95 max... so 106 skills... i dont remember how many prereqs i would have so whatever is left... a little under 20 it seems

or if someone may have a suggestion for sometihng better... i havent tried any type of foh/hammer variant in 1.10+




btw... why the hell do people call charge+hammer a liberator -_-? its supposta have foh too!

[Rane-]

Lol I can't wait till Viet sees this :lol:.

To answer your question; yes we tried it. How effective is it though? Well if AIM has message logs I may be able to tell you what we came too... once I remember what it is we did :confused:.

[GkT]

With all the +Skills and with Vigor Max'd, 1 Point in Charge will do fine if you have a 'Grief' Weapon. I guess my Mage setup would work if you swapped out the 'Spirit' Weapon-you would need to find ~55 FHR, though.

[DoC-Makaveli]

well i could get fhr in gcs... or boots

[DoC-Makaveli]

With all the +Skills and with Vigor Max'd, 1 Point in Charge will do fine if you have a 'Grief' Weapon. I guess my Mage setup would work if you swapped out the 'Spirit' Weapon-you would need to find ~55 FHR, though.

what damage balance do you get... im thinking i should possibly go higher foh/lower hammer

[dkay]

problem with this idea is the lack of skill points :(
mages are foh + hammers and struggle dearly with skill points. it requires precise distribution as it is. i guess you can slap a grief on a mage.

[DoC-Makaveli]

then its a lib! lol :) thats basically my build... mage w/ grief... lvl 1 charge... just trying to see what kind of balance of foh/hammer would be best... (whihc may not be the same balance of mage since its a bit of a different style of play)

[Rane-]

Although you lose a HINT of Hammer damage, I do remember Viet and I agreed that you should get Vigor as your BH synergy as oppossed to BA. Having 17-20 Vigor adds a wealth to your charge damage.

BTW: Does anyone know if/where AIM stores chat logs? I know where msn stores them, does AIM do something similar?

[vegiita]

Aim itself doesn't store logs (at least the last time I checked, I haven't updated it for a while) but if you use a program like deadaim, it should log it in the deadaim folder.

edit: I'm also curious as to how this build fares in PvP. It sounds like it would have a lot of utility and I'm getting bored of my v/t. Please tell us how it works out

[DoC-Makaveli]

I also agree that blessed aim maybe shouldnt have more than 1 for more foh damage... because hammer damage gets so high its really ok to lose a bit... ive been playing around with the build on single player trying to see if i can make it work... cant really duel test it though.... i could on open with a friend but its usually too laggy to get any real indication of dueling

someone help me go on a quest to make people stop calling hammer/charge pala a liberator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ragnarod]

Well, this is all theory, as I have no practice in 1.10 dueling, but wouldn't you want to have close to max dr while using your charge switch, at least when dueling melee chars? My .09 liberator had a storm in his charge switch for this reason, you could do the same I guess

Besides that, are you sure that aiming for the last fcr breakpoint is worth the sacrifices in gear? Because stopping at 75% fcr would give you a lot more flexibility in gear choices, you could for example use angelic ring/amu for extra AR in certain matchups, or bloodfist for fhr, or verdungo for some extra life/dr... It might be that you've all tested the difference between reaching 75 and 125 fcr, and concluded that 125 is needed for a mage to be successful, I haven't followed the forum much lately, if that's the case just let me know :)

It's nice of you to try and bring back the old liberator, it was one of my favourite builds in .09, and it would be good to see it still working in 1.11, good luck ;)

[DoC-Makaveli]

vs melee chars i would hammer or foh them... not charge... but i could put on a verdungo+ber shako+ber hoz+enigma (49 dr) if i was having a problem... maybe vs barbs or zons or particularly good smiters/chargers

[GkT]

If you want to save AIM conversations, click the conversation box and click 'File' and then 'Save'.

DoC-Search my posts-I don't hve that many-my setup is in a few of my posts. My gear is based on USWest and it does involve Wizardspike Gloves to hit the 125 FCR BP. My Mage is 98 so I had a bit more Skills to play with.

I'd think most people would agree 1k more Hammer Damage is better than 1k more FoH Damage. With a 4-5k FoH, and Level 14-18 Conviction, you'll make them put on Stack+Absorb/Max Res. Having a 7-9k Hammer to back that up would be awesome.

[Rane-]

Ok so all the golden talk on this build is lost then cuase I didn't go outta my way to save those convo's -_-.

We definatly only planned on using charge against low def character, such as casters and zons. This eliminated the need for AR or any other drastic changes. The only real design change of note was on FCR, which we never really decided on what to do, namely becuase we were'nt sure if it was necassary at all. I ran a numbers table which is in some old thread I posted here, which showed how much of a difference FCR makes when throwing out 1-2 Hammers (it wasn't much). When making a Hammer field however we know how exponentially the use of FCR increase with multiple events, making it THAT much more effective when you want to throw out 12 Hammers in a row. How many matchups do you make Hammerfields in though, as oppossed to 'placing hammers' as LovelyGods would say?

Essentially we were trying to combine the 1.10 mage and 1.10 liberator into the same build. Having FoH is always nice as it forces you opponent to stack. once you weakened your opponent by forcing them to stack you had hammers for melee and charge for ranged ala the current liberator. I also toyed around a fair bit with a Charge/Smite/FoH pally.

On that note in theory I really don't see what beats Charge/Smite/FoH apart from really good Hammerdins and Fury Druids :confused:.

[DoC-Makaveli]

i have a v/t using charge/foh/smite which works very very well... its got base smite with max hs/fana/shock/foh w/ rest convic so it isnt great for pal v pal... but im beginning to think its the best all around 1v1 dueler.... the only thing i have trouble with are smite v/t's and ele druids (one of my friend's eles gave me problems--that may be because he's max block/dr and very good).... i don't even use excessive sorb (a maximum of 1 item with sorb and/or +max res--the rule most of my friends tend to follow)... i've never had any trouble with ww druids o_O? maybe just never dueled any with enough stack res... i have -205 lr in my foh eq so it takes a lot to stack vs it hehe

other than that i'm very impressed with it... i put 8.4k foh w/ lvl 21 convic (still leveling--it will be 25) + 75 fcr on switch and it works so well.... then i've got 2.5k smite on my normal weap/shield (i calculated the grief damage and that turned out to be over 8k dmg)... i can make myslef all but immune to orb (a full orb takes under 5 life) and even a 16k dmg blizz sorc w/ max CM does under 200 dmg... all with only 1 cold absorb item and no stack shield (and no additional +max res)... can also go 49% dr for barbs/eles/zons...

v/t with grief is definitely a VERY good build



and im not trying to combine mage + lib... im trying to make a liberator!!!! charge/hammer is a fake ^^

[dkay]

rane- pointed out putting vigor over ba. very nice idea. mages with decked out gear can have like 5-6k foh and 8k hammers. i bet if you tweak it so that you can invest more into vigor (For charge damage) and less into foh, you can get like 4-5k foh, 9k hammers, and a VERY powerful charge.

something to think about.

[DoC-Makaveli]

I dont know about that... I think I would rather have more foh damage than charge.... my v/t has nice charge damage with grief / lvl 1 charge / 1 pt in syn

[vietl0yalty]

me and rane discussed this a long time ago but the thing we were trying to do was to have all skills available in one switch (foh/hammers/charge) so that we can have cta on switch... if you have a high amount of patience... i guess u can just spend a bit of time to prebuff then go back to stash to slap the grief/ss or w/e

but if you arent planning on using cta... i dont think u can get more than 2.7-2.8k life max... if u can deal with that then the versatility should be good enough to make up for it

i personally think u should have at least 6k hammers... 7.5k-8k is ideal... and 9k only if you think its necessary to even have that much... as for FOH dmg u should have at least 4.5k to make it effective... lastly charge works fine with maxed vigor and a grief

best of luck building him... i believe it can work pretty well if u can utilize foh/hammer/charge wen needed to

[Rane-]

I dont know about that... I think I would rather have more foh damage than charge.... my v/t has nice charge damage with grief / lvl 1 charge / 1 pt in syn

You don't lose any FoH damage by moving points from BA to Vigor :confused:. You'd just lose a smudge of Hammer damage, whilst gaining a significant charge boost.