Double-swing Barbarian?

[rogermw]

I've seen guides here for building a Barbarian that specializes in Concentrate, WhirlWind, Frenzy, Berserk, and Throwing.

Curiously absent, though, are any guides for building a Barbarian that specializes in Double Swing.

Admittedly, Concentrate gives a better Attack Rating bonus, a serious Defense Rating bonus, and a better Damage-Bonus-Per-Attack. However, in experimenting with arming my Barbarian with two weapons, I find I can deal out a lot more damage per second with Double-Swing than I can with Concentrate. (Even having a shield instead of a second weapon doesn't help much with Concentrate, unless it has an impossible-to-find super-high block chance.)

Then again, I'm only playing single player.

Are Double Swing barbarians any good in the long run?

[angus]

Check out the frenzy guide for using 2 wpns.

[eA-Zaku]

Isn't Frenzy a lot better than Double Swing? Since you DSwing is a synergy for Frenzy, you might as well use both Frenzy and Double Swing (although I would think that using only Frenzy is good enough)

[Epsilon Eyez]

I use Frenzy (one point, mind you) to gain attack speed, then Double Swing for its insane speed.

The main advantages you can't overlook about Double Swing is cheap in terms of mana and quick, I don't know any breakpoints or technical stuff but its really quick and good at casting any chance to cast things, and setting off tons of crushing blow.

In terms of damage, Frenzy does way more (for me, it did about 2 or 3 times more damage).

[Ash Housewares]

double swing and frenzy have the same speed cap, there is no benefit to using double swing other than when mana-burned

[rogermw]

According to Ash's Comprehensive Guide to Frenzy [TM], Double Swing costs zero mana when you have 9 or more levels in it. Is this true? I've never pumped that many Skill Choices into my Barbarian's Double Swing skill to check.

[Cadet]

Yes, it's true. Mana-free attacks are great.

[chubbypuppy]

I really like double swing because frenzy gets too fast for me, but everytime I compare the skills Frenzy just comes up much better.

20 DS only gives + 110% attack %, whereas Frenzy gives 233 attack, 185 dmg, 7-42 extra attack speed.

I just wish it didnt make me run so fast, makes it very hard to control :)

[chubbypuppy]

My barb just got to level 24 and my level 2 frenzy seems *slower* than my level 2 double swing, even after charge up. It does do a lot more dmg though. I thought frenzy was supposed to be faster...

[rogermw]

Indeed, when I began using Frenzy I, too, was disappointed to discover that each of my two swings came in succession (rather than at the same time as with Double Swing).

I believe the Frenzy strategy is supposed to work thusly:

*) Assign Frenzy to right-click.
*) Assign Double-Swing to left-click.
*) Make your FIRST attack against a powerful enemy (or a group of enemies) with Frenzy via right-clicking on them.
*) When your Frenzy has finished, make your subsequent attacks for the next 6 seconds with Double-Swing via left-clicking on them.

The Frenzy will speed up all of your successive Double-Swing attacks by 7% or more for the next 6 seconds. Once that's done, repeat with another Frenzy attack to replenish your Double-Swing super speed.

This is particularly devastating if the enemies with the lowest Attack Ratings and/or the slowest melee attacks are at the front of the pack, so that you can attack them first. Frenzy against the low threats so that you risk less life and limb, then Double-Swing against your more threatening foes at increased speed to keep 'em off balance.

Of course, it also goes without saying that you should have some way of inflicting cold damage. Even a couple of points of cold damage will cut your enemies' attack speeds in half for a second or two each time you hit them.

[chubbypuppy]

But... if we are using frenzy just for the charge up and using double swing for the real attacks, then there's really no point to putting more than 1 point into frenzy, since most of your attacks are using double swing (and thus not getting the +AR +Dmg that frenzy provides) :(

[BatTheMan]

using frenzy puts you in frenzy mode for 6 seconds which gives you bonus to ar speed and dmg, so even if you use double swing instead of freenzy you still benefit from the frenzy mode I believe.

[chubbypuppy]

using frenzy puts you in frenzy mode for 6 seconds which gives you bonus to ar speed and dmg, so even if you use double swing instead of freenzy you still benefit from the frenzy mode I believe.

Wow, really? Is this true? Can someone else verify?

Also, do I have to whack multiple monsters to "build up" frenzy? Like if it says 7-42 increased attack speed, does that mean it's random 7-42 after the first hit, or do I build up more and more speed after each successfuly hit?

Do I actually have to hit to build up frenzy?

[rogermw]

According to Ash's Comprehensive Guide to Frenzy [TM], Double Swing costs zero mana when you have 9 or more levels in it. Is this true?
UPDATE:

Okay, I've managed to work my Barbarian up to 55th level, and put several skill points into Double-Swing along the way to see what happens.

The good news: In version 1.11, you only need six (6) levels of Double-Swing to reduce its mana cost to 0.

The bad news: Even though 6 levels of Double-Swing cost 0 mana to use, you still need to have at least 1 mana point available to use it. So if you're facing a mana-draining or mana-burning creature -- an all-too-common occurrence in Nightmare Mode -- and it drains all of your mana points away, you will not be able to double-swing until you restore at least 1 point of your mana.

[Maxwell Armada]

That is a completely misleading post, check your information before saying such things.

Level 9. Let me say it again level NINE gives you a 100% free, no mana required Double swing.

Level 6 needs LESS THAN 1 mana per swing, so it doesnt show any cost on the skill description, but believe me, and the plethora of others that have tested it, that its there.

And one more thing, frenzy bonuses such as damage and AR do NOT carry over to double swing, only the attack speed bonus does. And yes, you will need to swing frenzy a few times to get the full bonus "Charged up"

[rogermw]

Level 9. Let me say it again level NINE gives you a 100% free, no mana required Double swing.

Level 6 needs LESS THAN 1 mana per swing, so it doesnt show any cost on the skill description, but believe me, and the plethora of others that have tested it, that its there.
So will a Level 9 double-swing work if you've been drained to 0 mana? (I presume level 6 doesn't work when all your mana points have been drained away because it was actually 0.8 mana or something, but I just want to be sure that a level 9 double-swing will still work even if you have no mana left at all.)

Oh -- and I noticed that having 20 levels in double-swing shows a mana cost of -2 displayed next to the skill. Does that mean when you double-swing you actually gain mana points?

[AwesomeDude]

In the past that was true - I can't say for now.

[rogermw]

In the past that was true - I can't say for now.
To which question? Whether 9 levels of double-swing can still be used when your mana has run completely dry, or whether 20 levels of double-swing actually increases your mana when you use it?

[killian27]

To which question? Whether 9 levels of double-swing can still be used when your mana has run completely dry, or whether 20 levels of double-swing actually increases your mana when you use it?

Double swing is "free" from level 9+, even with mana burn. You will not gain mana at any level of double swing (1.10 and 1.11, before that IDK).

[Day]

Can anyone tell me:

Is it swings or hits that make frenzy attack speed increase? And if so how many do you need to get to maximum speed.

Does the duration run from the first hit/swing or the last i.e. is it six seconds from when you start to build up speed or from when you reach top speed.

If you are at top speed and frenzy again does it reset your 6 seconds at maximum speed or do you start again?

I thought if you have the right iAS you were best using frenzy all the time?

[dasbomba]

dont know about the charges but it seems that when I hit(only hit counts no swing) i get additional speed bonus, lowest one, then another hit and I get more etc. and I will keep getting the max speed with hitting then only 1 ones per 5-6 seconds its better keeping it to 4-5 seconds because you can fail hit. and it takes awesome speed when having over 30 frenzy thus it needs seriously mana.

I usually use frenzy to speed up my running :lol: you can get 300mph speed with 1 second :lol:

I am not using the increase stamina/speed, because they are waste of points IMO.

I usually boost my DS to 10 so my +skills will do the trick of gaining me more synergie bonus =D

I am still searching good helm for my barbarian, I have this on my mind

3 socket
+3 BO
+3 frenzy
+3 shout

it would be just fine to me =D