PvM Wolfbarb vs. PvM Bar-bear-ian

[JanusJones]

Playing around with the numbers, trying to decide what to make. With a Grief PB the Wolf will hit 5 fps with Feral Rage and the Bear will hit 6 fps with a normal attack. The equip isn't optimal, but it's what I have. What do you think - which should I build?

Weapon: 40% IAS Grief PB
Amulet: Maras
Ring1: Bul Kathos
Ring2: Ravensfrost
Armor: Fortitude
Shield: Phoenix
Helm: Wolfhowl
Belt: Verdungoes
Gloves: Dracul's Grasp
Boots: War Trav/Waterwalk

Prebuff:
Were Weapons: Beast/Hoto
Cry Weapons: Echoing Spear/Hoto
Amulet: Maras
Ring1: BK
Ring2: Stone of Jordan
Helm: Wolfhowl
Armor: CoH/Nigma (either/or)
Belt: Arachnid Mesh

Charms: Annihilus, Hellfire Torch

Total + to Were-skills:
Lycanthropy: 4(base)+3(hoto)+2(rings)+2(ammy)+1(belt)+1(anni)+2 (armor)+1(Atlantean)+1(com) = 17
Duration: 400 sec, +125% life
Werewolf: 6(base)+3(hoto)+2(rings)+2(ammy)+1(belt)+1(anni)+2 (armor)+1(Atlantean)+1(com) = 19
+320% AR, +68% speed

Total + to War Cries:
3(base)+3(hoto)+2(rings)+2(ammy)+1(belt)+1(anni)+2 (armor)+3(helm)+1(com) = +17
Battle Orders lv. 37 = +143% life/mana, 495 sec duration
Shout lv. 37 = Defense +460%, 485 sec duration
Battle Command lv. 18+ = 375 sec duration

Total + to Masteries:
1(ring)+2(ammy)+1(com) = +4
Sword Mastery lv. 24 = +212% AR, +143% Damage, 22% Critical Strike
Iron Skin lv. 24 = +260% Defense
Natural Resists lv. 16 = +64%
Increased Speed lv. 5 = +28% walk/run speed
Feral Rage lv. 8 = +85% damage, +90% AR

Total Life: +268% life
Total Damage: +779%
Total AR: +622%
Total Defense: +720%

Bar-BEAR-ian

Weapon: 40% IAS Grief PB
Amulet: Angelics
Ring1: Angelics
Ring2: Angelics
Armor: Fortitude
Shield: Phoenix
Helm: Arreat's
Belt: Trang Oul's
Gloves: Dracul's Grasp
Boots: War Trav/Waterwalk

Prebuff:
Were Weapons: Beast/Hoto
Cry Weapons: Echoing Spear/Hoto
Amulet: Maras
Ring1: BK
Ring2: Stone of Jordan
Helm: Wolfhowl
Armor: CoH/Nigma (either/or)
Belt: Arachnid Mesh

Charms: Annihilus, Hellfire Torch

Total + to Were-skills:
Lycanthropy: 3(base)+3(hoto)+2(rings)+2(ammy)+1(belt)+1(anni)+2 (armor)+4(helm)+1(com) = 18
Duration: 420 seconds, +155% life
Werebear: 3(base)+3(hoto)+2(rings)+2(ammy)+1(belt)+1(anni)+2 (armor)+2(helm)+1(com) = 16
+155% ED, +100% Defense

Total + to War Cries:
3(base)+3(hoto)+2(rings)+2(ammy)+1(belt)+1(anni)+2 (armor)+3(helm)+1(com) = +17
Battle Orders lv. 37 = +143% life/mana, 495 sec duration
Shout lv. 37 = Defense +460%, 485 sec duration
Battle Command lv. 18+ = 375 sec duration

Total + to Masteries:
+1(anni)+1(ring)+2(helm)+1(com) = +5
Sword Mastery lv. 24 = +212% AR, +143% Damage, 22% Critical Strike
Iron Skin lv. 24 = +260% Defense
Natural Resists lv. 16 = +64%
Increased Speed lv. 5 = +28% walk/run speed

Skills:
Howl 1
Shout 20
BO 20
BC 1
Sword Mastery 20
Iron Skin 20
Increased Speed 1
Increased Stamina 1
Total: 84 - rest goes into Natural Resists (~11), Battle Command (~2)

Total ED: +849%
Total AR: +212%
Total Life: +298%
Total Defense: +720%

[[exile]]

Wolf, hands down. The AR bonus is incredible, so you don't need to sacrifice good gear for Angelics.

It looks much better too.

[JanusJones]

']Wolf, hands down. The AR bonus is incredible, so you don't need to sacrifice good gear for Angelics.

It looks much better too.

Ya think? Wolves always look so scrawny and neurotic to me. Bears are beefy and brawny. Point taken about the AR though - question, however. I'm also considering building a Palabear - either a double Dream/Conviction bear or a Fanaticism/Holy Shield physical damage variant. Which one would be the most effective in PvM, I wonder? Any thoughts?

[Zero-unit]

Skiped alot of your post, (I'm tired.) between the two for the Barbarian option, you would want to stick with Wolf for one you gain better hit recovery and block rates, higher attack rating, and a skill. The bear option is the oposite. As far as Weretemplar Dream would be great for this but beware of immunes, and if you went the physical damage route, since your speaking PvM, you'll benefit better from Concentration since it has 20% uninteruptability per swing. (You get almost nothing from Fnaticism speed.)

Dr@kE~

[JanusJones]

Skiped alot of your post, (I'm tired.) between the two for the Barbarian option, you would want to stick with Wolf for one you gain better hit recovery and block rates, higher attack rating, and a skill. The bear option is the oposite. As far as Weretemplar Dream would be great for this but beware of immunes, and if you went the physical damage route, since your speaking PvM, you'll benefit better from Concentration since it has 20% uninteruptability per swing. (You get almost nothing from Fnaticism speed.)

Dr@kE~

Thanks for the reply, man! I agree about the AR on the Wolf, but I don't understand how you could reccomend Concentration as a PvM aura when you suggest a Bar-bear-ian wouldn't have enough AR - he'd have more than a Palabear with Concentration, as he'd have a maxed Mastery - whereas a Concentration-based Palabear would have NO enhanced AR at all! I guess the Dreaming bear would work (immunes wouldn't be a problem, either, since Conviction would break them - I could switch to Might when necessary as well), but I guess my hesitation comes from the feeling that a Zealot could do what a Dream bear could . . . but do it better.

[Zero-unit]

Well think of this, Dreamer Paladins don't recieve any AR from their auras. The nice part about the Palabear is the ability of maxing Blessed Aim which gives a secret AR bonus. Unless you don't plan on using Angelics you should be fine.

Dr@kE~

[JanusJones]

Well think of this, Dreamer Paladins don't recieve any AR from their auras. The nice part about the Palabear is the ability of maxing Blessed Aim which gives a secret AR bonus. Unless you don't plan on using Angelics you should be fine.

Dr@kE~

Maxed Zeal gives 200% AR and Blessed Aim only gives 100% - not too much at all. Plus, +skills gear works with Zeal, and doesn't with Blessed Aim. I guess the main benefit would be the bear's increased Defense and Life - you'd be trading 1 fps in speed (bear gets 5, pally gets 4) and a bunch of AR/damage for a huge bonus to Life and Defense. I don't know if it's be worth it. I guess the physical damage option seems attractive to me, for some odd reason - go figure. Thanks for the comments, though - I'm trying to think this through. Basically, I want to make an oddball character, but I want it to be one that works - and that can be difficult to swing.