Viable Nightmare Paladin, not Hell

[reyla]

As the title suggests, I am making a Paladin to MF Nightmare and have no intention of ever playing him in Hell. With that said, I believe there a number of builds for every class that "Rock Normal" and "Do well in NM" but would not last a day in Hell.

I do not have any experience with Paladins and I do not have gear to twink him. What build would stay alive with items he finds along the way? The Paladin forums, like all the class forums, have excellent guides but they are mainly for softcore players.

I can only guess from reading a Hammerdin. Max Hammer, Max Blessed Aim and Max Concentration.

or

A Telsadin? or Holy Fire type? Max Zeal?

I should add that I want a boss runner, so high enough defense and resists and vitality to run past monsters without killing them would be my preferred play style for this character. I imagine the Hammerdin is the opposite, killing packs of monsters quickly.

[OxxyJoe]

Beyond any doubt, you're talking about a frost zealot. The cold damage will allow him to finish normal without an awesome weapon, and you can run NM Countess to get shaels and other runes that you can trade for faster attack rate equipment. In NM, there are still very few cold immunes, and the holy freeze aura is the best in the game for running past enemies. Plus, being melee still, you can afford to wear the high defense items you find, as opposed to a build like a hammerdin, where you're trying to keep base str at least below 75. A holy freeze merc is much less reliable for slowing enemies, as running through areas ALWAYS leaves him far behind, even with him teleporting by your side now and then. A defiance merc would be the best bet, as that will allow you much more defense. Even with my hammerdin, I use defiance merc over a chill one, mainly because I like to see my defense rise well into the thousands.
I will say a hammerdin is more bang for the buck in terms of faster leveling/MFing as well as much greater damage output when playing untwinked, even vs bosses. However, the freeze zealot, while not having the same level of firepower, is much more durable and can really kill bosses quickly with a Goblin Toe or similar Crushing Blow equipment. You'll be running Nightmare Meph in 8 player games and dropping him like a hot potato.

The things you have to worry about are avoiding dangerous monster packs, namely the exploding dolls and ALL FIRE ENCHANTED enemies. For some reason, the monsters that guard Travincial and the entrance to meph's throne room have a rather high chance of killing you in 1 explosion. The way to handle them is either to have your merc hold them off (which can be pretty hard when he doesnt have good equipment yet), to park the fire enchanted one on the opposite side of a moat (best option), or buy yourself a dwarf star unique ring, which has 20% fire absorb, and SHOULD, IMO, let you tank those FE explosions. Lastly, make sure you do not get AMPED at the last minute, as this will definately make you dead.

my 2 cents.

edit: and don't try to tank a Nightmare FE monster with less than 900 HP and the fire absorb (along with max resistance). Don't even go near NM trav or meph without 75 to the 3 main resists.

[sonikki_]

I've heard if u max holy freeze and synergies, u can kill nm cows just running around... true?

[OxxyJoe]

I've heard if u max holy freeze and synergies, u can kill nm cows just running around... true?

lvl 25 cold aura with full synergies gives around 200-250 cold damage to your aura, which i'm sure would let you kill groups of cows in normal 1 player games, by just walking around.

Lightning aura, which should be the highest in terms of average damage, really doesn't offer that much better, due to decreased synergy amounds. I think it winds up being around 4-600, which only averages around 300. I'd take the cold instead any day, unless you're gonna be a fist o the heavens pally, which I personally think is about as effective as a poison dagger necro.

edit: it wouldnt be very effective vs NM cows, sorry.

[sonikki_]

lvl 25 cold aura with full synergies gives around 200-250 cold damage to your aura, which i'm sure would let you kill groups of cows in normal 1 player games, by just walking around.

Lightning aura, which should be the highest in terms of average damage, really doesn't offer that much better, due to decreased synergy amounds. I think it winds up being around 4-600, which only averages around 300. I'd take the cold instead any day, unless you're gonna be a fist o the heavens pally, which I personally think is about as effective as a poison dagger necro.

edit: it wouldnt be very effective vs NM cows, sorry.
hmmm... what about loads of +skills and a few cold facets? lets see... +3 circlet, +3 amulet, +3 weap, +3/+2 shield, +1 armor, maybe two skill charms... = +16 skills... so lvl 36 fully synergised aura with say the maximum of 6 facets = +30% more dmg.. do the math ? :)

[MoUsE_WiZ]

Personally I wouldn't MF nm with a paladin. Too many FEs running around in NM that can get up close and personal and own you almost regardless of gear.

But to actually answer your questions:
-Hammerdins make good boss killers. Not the best, but definitely quite reasonable speed.
-Hammerdins also get vigor as a synergy. Vigor means running past monsters much better than no vigor.
-You can actually own hell quite well with a hammerdin too...
-Spirit sword + spirit shield makes for some very cheap very good casting gear... of course if you don't have amns or 4s sword/resist shield to twink with it gets a bit trickier, but that stuff is findable in NM easily enough, might make normal a bit harder without it though

[Omikron8]

Blizzard Sorc will destroy anything in nightmare far faster than any other build.

[Bullet-Tooth Tony]

You can easily run Baal and other bosses on NM with Frost Zealot. As has been posted, it's easy to run around enemies because of slowing effect, which also has big range - with decent +skills even more than screen.
For bosses get some Crushing Blow (chance to reduce health by %) and any act boss will be a joke for him.
But I'll also vote for Hammerdins. At least for a simple reason - a NM-viable Hammerdin has a possibilty to be upgraded to a Hell-viable Hammerdin. A good Frost Zealot can solo Hell as well, but, IMHO, is not a good MFer there. Not to mention that a NM-viable Hammerdin is really easy to make (thanks to Spirit first of all).

[reyla]

Thank you all for the detailed replies. Yes, I know a Bliz Sorc would much more efficient but I am bent on trying a Paladin. I do actually have a 4 socket Long Sword, a 4 socket Arakan Targe and the runes for both so I may just go with a Hammerdin and see where that gets me. The Frostzealot does sound good too. I like the idea of my auras doing alot of the work. I will try both and see.

[Raith]

you may have toruble in NM a4 though. IM, be careful.

[Omikron8]

as well as worldstone 3 and throne

[reyla]

I made a Hammerdin. Currently level 30. Max Hammer. Max Conc. (for his level).

The problem I am having is a Hammerdin seems like a very powerful ranged attacker that gets hit...Maybe it is my skill with the Hammers but you have to have Hammer on left click and Conc aura on right which makes for very clumsy run and shoot tactics. It seems there is too much precise timing involved. This is hardcore and being hit just once by 1 arrow or 1 bolt or 1 melee attack can mean deeds in the blink of an eye. I know how to play a Skellimancer that can play naked and never get hit or a Sorc who never gets hit. My LF and Strafe Amazons were ok too even with Strafe Lock. Any tips on playing a Hammerdin without getting hit? I am old and my vision and reflexes aint what they used to be so I may give up on him before I lose 2 Spirit Runewords, etc.

[Omikron8]

As you said put hammers on left click and conc on right

Run around near the monsters with left click and tap the shift button when you want to fire a hammer or hold shift if you want to spam them, doing all of this while still holding the left click button to be able to escape/maneuver quickly. Obviously maxed holy shield is a must.

[MoUsE_WiZ]

Max holy shield for sure. Dumping points into defiance is also a possibility. Defence is the hammerdin's best friend. Well best friend after the potential 15k kill-almost-anything hammers anyways.

Also, when doing the running part, don't forget to switch to vigor. The less time it takes you to put distance inbetween you and the monsters the more hammers you get to spam. Similarily FCR is a must, conveniently though any spirit shield + shard or suicide = 75% fcr though.

Yes, they do feel rather clumsy to play (if you're me anyways), especially against monsters that don't really chase you much (eg OKs), but the fact that a good offence is a good defence (nothing you can't kill quickly so long as it wants to get hit by hammers) and getting 3:1/requiring less dex for 75 block/getting huge defence helps make up for the frequency at which they're hit compared to other casters.

Oh, and 1 point in redemption makes post-battle potting unnecessary, so less town trips too.

[PhatTrumpet]

Factor in just enough lag so that you've run to a spot, spammed hammers, and they're passing right through your target without doing any damage... oh how I don't miss Hammerdins.

[MoUsE_WiZ]

No, I really can't stand mine at all, but that doesn't change the fact that the one I made this season has been fairly successful ^^

[Full_Circle]

The problem I am having is a Hammerdin seems like a very powerful ranged attacker that gets hit...

I generally think of a hammerdin as a melee character. Sure, you CAN kill things at a range, but it takes so much time to wait for your hammers to loop around. Of course, that's probably why I've had more near-deaths to Fire Enchanted bosses with a hammerdin than any other character. So... yeah... watch out for FEs!

Another tactic if your enemies are ones that follow you is to use the hit shift to toss a couple hammers, back up a step or two, toss a couple more, repeat until everything dead. This helps make sure they hammers aren't missing while your enemies are pounding you.