Bearsin help needed

[aznbboi16]

Well, the search function has failed me and brought up only a couple threads with little info, so don't yell at me.

Anyways, I'm getting pretty bored with pub pk and such and I have this nifty claw that I would like to see used:
Artisan's Greater Talons of Quickness
+40%IAS
+1 Blade Shield
Socketed [3]

With no IAS it will hit 4 fpa, with 1x IAS jewel or shael it hits 3fpa, with 2 shaels and 1 IAS jewel or shael, it hits 2 fpa. I heard 2 fpa is buggy, but I would like to see what it looks like. Has anyone ever tried it? Just how buggy is it? I don't feel like doing any trading for facets or ias/whatever jewels so I will probably just triple shael this for fun. If I find it buggy I might just hel and shaelberber since this will just be for pvm.

I am also wondering what equipment you guys might suggest. Off-hand claw will not affect my attack speed, correct? Here's what I think I will be using:

Artisan's Greater Talons of Quickness (shaelshaelshael or shaelberber)
Whitstan's Guard, Sanctuary Monarch/Troll, Jade talon w/ weap block?
Switch: Beast + Spirit
Shako (shael or something cheap) or Guillaume's for super fast CB?
Enigma BP
Trang gloves, maybe dracs for special occasions (aka poison immune).
Gore riders for CB
Arachnid?
Mara's Kaleidoscope
2x Ravenfrost

10x shadow GCs
Low anni
Rest life scs

WWsin claws in stash for poison immunes maybe, although I'm certain CB + SM + Merc should take care of those. PI/PI? Run like hell.

Skills:
20 Claw Mastery
20 Venom
20 Shadow Master
20 Blade Shield (so many leftover skills...)
13 Fade (70 res/86% curse reduction/33%DR after +skill, need more if using Guillaume)

Suggestions, criticisms? I assume I inherit the terrible block rate/hit recovery of a druid in bear form (in which case, I'd lean towards whitstans).

[the boss]

Anyways, I'm getting pretty bored with pub pk and such and I have this nifty claw that I would like to see used:
Artisan's Greater Talons of Quickness
+40%IAS
+1 Blade Shield
Socketed [3]

I am also wondering what equipment you guys might suggest. Off-hand claw will not affect my attack speed, correct? Here's what I think I will be using:

Artisan's Greater Talons of Quickness (shaelshaelshael or shaelberber)
Whitstan's Guard, Sanctuary Monarch/Troll, Jade talon w/ weap block?
Switch: Beast + Spirit
Shako (shael or something cheap) or Guillaume's for super fast CB?
Enigma BP
Trang gloves, maybe dracs for special occasions (aka poison immune).
Gore riders for CB
Arachnid?
Mara's Kaleidoscope
2x Ravenfrost

WWsin claws in stash for poison immunes maybe, although I'm certain CB + SM + Merc should take care of those. PI/PI? Run like hell.

Suggestions, criticisms? I assume I inherit the terrible block rate/hit recovery of a druid in bear form (in which case, I'd lean towards whitstans).

If you gonna use whistan's...then socket pdiamond, it doesn't really worth anything to socket expensive stuff in that shield.

Also i would like to see the "Artisan's Greater Talons of Quickness" claw you got there...wondering :uhhuh:

Edit: Sanctuary Trollnest is better than whistans.

[Quietus]

You're a very lucky man; I've been looking for a pair of those claws for a LONG time. I used an editor tomess around with this sort of thing on single player, test it out, and I'll throw my meager experience into the ring.

2 fpa - It's said it's buggy, that it doesn't deal the physical damage. Guess what? Your physical damage is so unbelievably low, this doesn't matter.

Claw/claw - this WILL slow your attack. You must go claw/sheild.

Due to your low physical damage, you'll be relying on poison, crushing blow, and open wounds. Because of this, I would recommend that you use these peices as a bare minimum :

The claw (Your call on socketing, though 2fpa is just hilarious - you see your arm raise, then go to your side. Nothing in between, despite the fact that the enemy gets hit. On the other hand, BerBerShael might be better damage-wise)
Guillaime's face
Gore riders
Either duress or bramble - duress if you go 3x shael, bramble if you go BerBerShael
Dracul's grasp

Just these will give you : 68% open wounds, and 65% crushing blow. Unfortunately, you can't get crushing blow on jewellry or belts, or I'd say push it even higher than that. Other than this, go for resistances and attack rating, because those will be your other weak points. I believe bramble/berbershael claw would be a better build for damage, but the style points from a 2 frame attack ... well, I'd stick with two, personally. Though if you wanted to do the 3, I've got a couple nice brambles for trade. *Shameless self promotion*

[the boss]

sorry double post

[the boss]

Unfortunately, you can't get crushing blow on jewellry or belts, or I'd say push it even higher than that.

Don't forget crafting...Though it is really the unusual things for people to do, which is pretty rare actually.

[bladesyz]

Due to your low physical damage, you'll be relying on poison, crushing blow, and open wounds. Because of this, I would recommend that you use these peices as a bare minimum :


At 2 fpa, how would poison be any use at all?

['22'Souljah]

"3) Assasinbear

Now a build that i havent tried myself yet but wich i thought about a lot. Taaaadaaaaaa, i present you: The Ultrafast Assassinbear. There are 2 routes in this: Going the full venom route or going venom coupled with physical damage.

Pro’s: Catching casters can be entertaining with some frw and a maxed out burst of speed.
This baby is possible to attack as fast as 2fpa. This is the same speed as the fastest strafers you see around. The only problem is that you need a 3 socket runic talons of quickness for it to reach that attackspeed. More realistic is a 3 fpa attack or a 4 fpa attack ( wich equals a zealot). You can reach 3fpa with runic talons with 60% ias on em and 4 fpa with fury runic talons. You can achieve high life (1 vitalitypoint = 3 life).
Good Dr using fade vs melee and not having to use the high str. req Stormshield.

A faded bear looks supersexy. A superfast walking+attacking bear looks supersexy. Bladeshield on a bear looks supersexy. Just to be short: Massive stylepoints.

Con’s: Weapon block doesnt work. Wearing 2 claws also seems to take down your attackspeed, so you will have to go claw/shield. Damn the attack rating again

Now a pure venombear will do massive poisondamage using a bramble and trang gloves. She will also try to stack on open wounds. The only thing negative about this is that the venom duration lasts quite longer then your superfast attackspeed. This means some of your hits aren’t really doing anything.

The physical/venom bear will deal out decent venom and will use fury feralclaws+fortitude for some decent damage and 4fpa attack. Its a bit like those wolfbarbs using griscaddies you see walking around except that you will do better damage at the same attackspeed. Why fury you asking. It has a decent ed mod, just enough speed to hit 4 fpa with feral claws. It has open wounds and the awesome 33% deadly strike on it. Together with the critical strike from your claw mastery you will have a decent chance on doing double damage.

Skills:
Max Claw mastery
Max fade
Max venom
Slvl 12-20 burst of speed
Slvl +-10 blade shield ( it has a short duration and you cant cast it when in bearform)
Slvl 1-20 shadow warrior or master (what else to do with skills and they might tank you some elemental damage)

Items:
· Claw: Runic talons 100% ias, fools runic talons with 60 ias, nice rare runic talons 60 ias, Fury feral claws (they hit 1 frame slower then the others mentioned but good mods on em).
· Armor: Bramble or fortitude
· Amu: Angelics, Cats eye or Highlords vs low def chars
· Rings: Angelics, Raven+ any other vs low def chars
· Shield: Whitstans guard or Sanctuary runeword
· Helm: Kiras guardian for res cbf and fhr , Shako for skills/life,
· Gloves: Trang ouls
· Belt: Verdungo to reach 50% dr with fade, mavina for frw, Crafted belt with open wounds and fhr, Trang belt if you need cbf
· Boots: Shadow dancers if you planning on gettin str high, otherwise some 40% frw boots or gore riders.

For some more discussion about assabears look here

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=255885 and here http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=356664"
- tooken from gimmershred's bear for non druid guide took me forever to find that ****

[the boss]

Don't forget cta switch :rolleyes:

[Zangeif]

What realm is this claw on?

Please let us know how this works out. I assume 2fpa will be buggy and not really hit at 2fpa but who knows.

[aznbboi16]

http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=agtoq5cq.jpg

That is the claw, it is USWest NL (and to be clear, it is not for sale; I absolutely hate it when people ask me if my gear is for sale when I'm not actually advertising it for sale). I shopped it sometime during early Ladder season 2 while looking for a lld armor from Anya.

I guess I will try 3x shaels, since a 2s/40ias/etc rare runic would probably be better for a 3 framer anyways. No c/c, so I guess I will go with a Whitstan or something. I'll probably stick with Enigma, since I like the +str and fr/w on it and I would like to see how much life I can pump out of this thing.

One thing remains unclear and that is the fhr/fbr breakpoints. Does anyone know if I will have the druid bear form breakpoints or will it be something completely different?

[Zangeif]

You really should go Bramble here. This build is only going to beat melee, no need for frw or tele.

[ilkori]

And, there's no Tele while in bear form anyway. :-/

[aznbboi16]

Like I already stated this will be for pvm. I can't imagine this being any good for pvp with low AR, and easily resisted damage that just gets reapplied quickly. It won't be able to put anything into fhr since poison doesn't stun so it's useless vs casters. It won't have damage comparable to any other melee either. If I wanted to pvp, I'd make a wwsin. I just want to make this bear and have a little fun pvm.

The mechanics for such a character would be terribly suited to pvp anyways. Super fast attack that is just going to reapply venom before it's even had a chance to finish or reset the ow timer? Does little to no physical/elemental damage and has no ability to stun (put into fhr with immediate damage)? No thanks, that would be destroyed by the worst of pub casters and melee alike.

Bramble offers me nothing special. It gives me more poison damage, which I probably won't need. I'd take a Duress over it anyday. I am looking mainly at enigma because it will allow me to go base str and be able to wear everything I need. The %DR will allow me to save some points in fade, since the resistances fall off heavily and points for just DR get to be a waste. Not to mention I have a few extra enigmas lying around and I'm too lazy to trade for whatever other armor I could use when enigma is perfectly fine.

I know bears can't tele...I always wonder why people feel the need to point this out.

[Zangeif]

I can't imagine playing this char pvm but if you want to, go for it.

This would work in pvp by keeping them in fhr/block animation, poison doesn't stun but regular damage does. You might need to tweak things to make sure you do enough damage for fhr animation, maybe use a helm with 30 maxers and then the ED from claw mastery should be enough.

Venom appying over itself won't be much of a problem, it lasts .4 seconds and they will block 75% of your attack and others will miss due to defense. It will rarely apply over itself.

[aznbboi16]

This build would rarely put someone in fhr even with 30 maxers. Even with 90 max from a helm and a 10x damage multiplier (which is much higher than this build could imagine) the damage would barely break 1.2k (max) which is hardly reliable to put anyone into hit recovery. And I'd rather have the venom reapplying itself than not, but the fact is that it can do no more than that and has little to no damage from other sources.

Do you seriously think this build could beat any cookie cutter melee (consistently)? It won't. Don't even get me started on casters...good luck catching one.

I'm not one to take out some out-of-this-world build to duel just because it's unique. If it's out-of-this-world and good, sure, but not in this case.

[Zangeif]

Yes, you could definately beat melee characters without uninterruptable attacks, and even some with uninterruptable attacks. 3 frame bearsins do fine in pvp, I have never heard of a 2 frame since the claw you have is pretty hard to find.

I just think this build screams pvp, whats the point of building a 2 frame character when attack speed does not matter at all in pvm. Your damage per second is still much lower than a 4 frame zealot or fury druid.

The build will definately take tweaking but you have the godly piece already. Possibly a phoenix shield and 120max armor of whale to put them in fhr. Or fortitude armor with maxers in helm. I know if you had phoenix, 120 max in armor, and 120max from scs, you would break 1.2k by quite a bit. You will also have a fair amount of deadly strike with gores and claw mastery. For helm I really don't know, theres a lot of good options, coa seems best to me though, although I'm not sure what jewels you want (bers, shaels, 40/-reqs, 30maxers).

Well theres some ideas off the top of my head, it takes testing to really make the build effective though.

[ilkori]

Instead of MB, I would guess this build works best with a Knockback mod somewhere in the equipment. Either Giant Skull, Nef rune, or Hit Power gloves should work.

With BoS might be able to catch them before they could recover, and repeat the cycle. Against a wall/obstacle they'd be stuck.

Smiters would pwn this build, though. :(

[Zangeif]

Well none of us know how 2 frame attack works, but my guess is you would be attacking so fast you would swing at air after they were knocked back rather than chase them right away.

[aznbboi16]

Instead of MB, I would guess this build works best with a Knockback mod somewhere in the equipment. Either Giant Skull, Nef rune, or Hit Power gloves should work.

With BoS might be able to catch them before they could recover, and repeat the cycle. Against a wall/obstacle they'd be stuck.

Smiters would pwn this build, though. :(
Honestly I think more than just smiters would pwn this build. Let's see:
Zealots: High defense, high damage, uninterruptible.
Werewolves: High damage, high life (won't be interrupted easily by such a weak attack), best fhr in the game (if you ever get them in it)
Werebear (Usually FC): High damage, high life, very fast attack
Whirlwind Barbarians: Nuff said.
Whirlwind Assassin: Traplock, teleport, more damage (physical, magic), uninterruptible.
Kick Assassin: Traplock, teleport, more damage (physical), knockback.
CS Zon: High damage (but can be absorbed), hard to hit.
Bear Sorc: Another uncommon build, high damage.

I'd say this build has a (slim) chance only against the CS Zon if absorbing (even then you'll probably die slowly) and against a Bear sorc, since they usually rely on eshield to protect them (they still do a hell of a lot more damage too). I would imagine this is an optimistic outlook for this build too.

Using BoS would really kill this build, since it only affects r/w speed and would lose all the benefits of fade.

Even with all that expensive gear, the physical damage would still be lacking for all the effort and currency put into it. DS and CS do not stack so no, the deadly strike % will not be so high. Pheonix vs melee = dead, nt. If I were going to go with a lot of max dmg and pvp, I would rather use a jeweler's monarch of deflecting with 120 max and fortitude. But acquiring that shield and those jewels would take way too much effort and currency for a character that will most likely fail. Even with all that top notch gear, breaking 2.5k (max) damage would be terribly hard, not to mention Venom/AR will be weak without Shadow GCs.

Your expectations for such a crazy build are way too high I think...

"I just think this build screams pvp, whats the point of building a 2 frame character when attack speed does not matter at all in pvm. Your damage per second is still much lower than a 4 frame zealot or fury druid."

If my dps would be lower than a zealot or fury druid, how am I ever to beat one? Zealots and fury druids are probably the least of your worries too. Smiters and Barbs trounce them in comparison.

[Zangeif]

You aren't going to beat a zealot, but I think you will beat fury druids by keeping them in fhr/blocking animation. Damage per second is all that matters in pvm, but in pvp attack speed is much more important. Wolves have 3 frame fhr, which is good, but you have 2 frame attack :) Also, their blocking will probably be 6 frame.

CS zons will be dodge locked easily, they should be your easiest matchup.

I think you will beat melee kickers, obviously a kicker with enigma, wof and a high level mb will beat you as you will never get close.

Obviously you won't beat ww or smite, but this is a build meant for melee.

Why is using a Phoenix bad vs melee? You will have 50% dr with fade, dungos and coa, so no need for SS. 120max in armor, 120max from charms, 60max on CoA = 320max. 300 ED on Phoenix means another 960 damage from your jewels and charms alone. Much better than another 120max JMoD, which would only get multiplied by the ED from claw mastery.

This is not a build to join a pub and own everyone, but it will work in melee pvp.

[aznbboi16]

You will probably NOT keep the wolf in fhr or block animation, because blocklock and such has been fixed. Same with CS Zons. And being dodged isn't a good thing either, sorry.

Pheonix = no block or slow max block with very little vit. Did I not mention Fortitude with the 120 max shield? I swear I did. Max block with a decent level of life + the SAME +max damage and 300%ED (a bit less than pheonix) from fortitude are a much better choice than low block, poor block rate pheonix. You do realize +max mods all work the same whether it's in your shield or armor right? Have you dueled before? Ever?

Dueling in a private league? This build would be trashed in any decent non pub environment. Pub is the only place where this could get a kill and even that would be hard.

Tell you what, you go make a pvp bearsin and let us know how it goes. I'll stick to pvm with mine.

[Zangeif]

Wow what a condescending tone.

And coming from a pvm player lol.

Fortitude could very well be the better choice and I have never used a ladder runeword so I'm not familiar with them. You're right I missed the mention of Fortitude with the JMoD, you must have missed my mention of fortitude as an option in earlier posts as well. Phoenix does kill oak sage, and gives some max res though, granted u block 1 frame slower and lose some life.

Oh well, have fun pvming, good luck finding some shakos.

[aznbboi16]

Wow what a condescending tone.

And coming from a pvm player lol.

Fortitude could very well be the better choice and I have never used a ladder runeword so I'm not familiar with them. You're right I missed the mention of Fortitude with the JMoD, you must have missed my mention of fortitude as an option in earlier posts as well. Phoenix does kill oak sage, and gives some max res though, granted u block 1 frame slower and lose some life.

Oh well, have fun pvming, good luck finding some shakos.
Wow, assume more. I'm just really tired of your theorycrafting. I don't believe this build will work for pvp for something so expensive, so I won't do that. Like I've already mentioned too, using 120 max in charms will lead to a poor venom and would be a sacrifice as well. It's either very very crappy physical and poison similar to a kicker/wwsin, or crappy physical and crappy poison. I'm also not willing to lay down all the hard work and trading for something that won't work well, just because it's unique. How can I get it across to you that I will NOT be pvping with this bear (mentioned it in my first post)?

I've long been a pvper of all sorts. I lld/mld/hld, pub and private duel in 3 leagues (one of which is dead). I've had experience with just about every character you can imagine, from warcry barbs to zealots. I know what works and I know what doesn't. Not sure if I mentioned in the first post, but the reason I am making this char is because I'm tired of dueling and I just want to try this bearsin since I have the claw. If you're uswest nl, I'd be glad to show you some of my pvpers, just pm me your account and I'll pm you mine.

Even if you had never used a ladder runeword, you should know from the stats that Pheonix has no +%block. You knew that it had +%ED so...I assumed you knew it had crap block. I did see your fortitude suggestion, but I chose not to comment on it.

If you so badly want to see a bearsin pvper, by all means go make one.

I own several shakos, thanks. Good luck with your pvp bearsin. And if you ever make one, I'd be glad to crush it too. :thumbsup:

[Zangeif]

Well jewlers runics of quickness could take a year to get so I can't make it.

I'm well aware you will lose to casters, ww barbs, smiters, etc, but who cares. In case you haven't noticed being godly isnt about beating the field in pubbies or even in private games. Why do you think a 3os fools myth of quickness is godlier than a grief. No, it's not because it's 1 frame faster (grief is much better) it's because it's rare and can't spawn. Why do you think a 90life jewlers dusk is worth so much more than a 100life archon dusk?

Anyway go ahead and use a bvc for your duels, and own everyone. Seems like beating the field is all you care about, and we all know what wins consistently. Then you can 3xber that claw up and go own some hell bovines.

What realm are u on btw?

[aznbboi16]

Well jewlers runics of quickness could take a year to get so I can't make it.

I'm well aware you will lose to casters, ww barbs, smiters, etc, but who cares. In case you haven't noticed being godly isnt about beating the field in pubbies or even in private games. Why do you think a 3os fools myth of quickness is godlier than a grief. No, it's not because it's 1 frame faster (grief is much better) it's because it's rare and can't spawn. Why do you think a 90life jewlers dusk is worth so much more than a 100life archon dusk?

Anyway go ahead and use a bvc for your duels, and own everyone. Seems like beating the field is all you care about, and we all know what wins consistently. Then you can 3xber that claw up and go own some hell bovines.

What realm are u on btw?
I don't even know what you're talking about anymore...

WW barbs and smiters are both melee btw. I already gave a reason for not making this a pvp char. Not because it isn't going to own everything in sight, but because it will be a huge hassle and cost an arm and a leg for something that will probably lose to just about everything out there. Also because I'm tired of pvp and I would like to just try something weird.

I've had some pretty 2nd rate characters that I thought were fun, even if they couldn't mop up pubs. WC barb, fury/rabies wolf, fc bear and a kicker for example. They certainly aren't ones to clean out a pub.

Just because an unshoppable 90 life jeweler's dusk shroud is worth more than a 100 life jeweler's archon, doesn't mean it's "godlier." It means it's rarer and therefore worth more. Not better. Same goes for a 3os fool's mythical of quickness. Worth more, not godlier. You're just one of those people who think crazy things are uber gosu because they're uncommon (even if they suck).

Seems like beating the field isn't what I care about if I'm taking my time to make a pvmer to "own some hell bovines". Contradict more.

Seriously, learn to read. I already said, and I quote: "If you're uswest nl, I'd be glad to show you some of my pvpers, just pm me your account and I'll pm you mine."

[Zangeif]

WW barbs and smiters are both melee btw

Lol don't start that argument. Lets just say that if they are melee, they are in a completely different league than any other melee and will never lose to any other melee.

Anyway, please don't go bragging about how I'm a pub and then complain because you can't afford 30 maxers and a JMoD. I guess we will never know how this build would do in pvp, until someone else finds a jewlers runic of quickness. What a shame.

[aznbboi16]

Lol don't start that argument. Lets just say that if they are melee, they are in a completely different league than any other melee and will never lose to any other melee.

Anyway, please don't go bragging about how I'm a pub and then complain because you can't afford 30 maxers and a JMoD. I guess we will never know how this build would do in pvp, until someone else finds a jewlers runic of quickness. What a shame.
Whether or not ww barbs and smiters own melee doesn't mean they aren't also melee. They are in a different league. Zealots, melee druids and the like are inferior (gasp), live with it. Why do you think they only duel each other? Melee is hand to hand combat. I don't see ww barbs or smiters shooting anything, do you? I love how people complain "omg ww and smite aren't melee because they own me!"

And when did I ever go bragging about how you're a pub? Getting a little defensive there eh? Running out of witty comments? And who says I can't afford 30 maxers and a JMoD? I said it is a hassle (more than I am willing to go through), since they are uncommon. Somebody needs better reading comprehension skills...

If you're such a cool non pub rich guy, why don't you go buy a jeweler's runic of quickness with your endless wealth?

[Zangeif]

Have you dueled before? Ever?

Dueling in a private league? This build would be trashed in any decent non pub environment. Pub is the only place where this could get a kill and even that would be hard.

Yes, you imply I am a pub dueler/noob or whatever else you want to call it.

I really don't care about what the dictionary definitaion of melee is. I base my decision on gameplay balance, as it is obviously more important than what Webster's has to say. If you want to join melee only games and pwn with a Grief/SS barb, feel free, that just isn't fun for me. All the good duelers stick to dueling their own classes in palapk/druidpk/casterpk so it doesn't really matter whether pubbies argue over the definition of melee.

Anyway, affording a jewlers runic of quickness is not the issue. If one turned up on East, I would buy it and try this build. It's hard to buy something that doesn't exist though.

[aznbboi16]

Yes, you imply I am a pub dueler/noob or whatever else you want to call it.

I really don't care about what the dictionary definitaion of melee is. I base my decision on gameplay balance, as it is obviously more important than what Webster's has to say. If you want to join melee only games and pwn with a Grief/SS barb, feel free, that just isn't fun for me. All the good duelers stick to dueling their own classes in palapk/druidpk/casterpk so it doesn't really matter whether pubbies argue over the definition of melee.

Anyway, affording a jewlers runic of quickness is not the issue. If one turned up on East, I would buy it and try this build. It's hard to buy something that doesn't exist though.
I fail to see how my comments imply you are a pub (which is what you accused me of). I was only stating that in a private duel situation, people are rich/skilled and will generally destroy weird builds. "Noob" is a different story.

Basing melee/caster class on balance is just hilarious and stupid. Casters > smiters. What are smiters? Certainly not casters. Not melee either right? Simple fact is that melee has a set definition. Saying something is not melee when it really is is stupid. Saying it's superior to other melee and unfair would be true. I fail to see how dueling only your own class makes you "good", but whatever floats your boat.

[ilkori]

Re: FHR lock
It's called knockback. That animation is longer than a FHR animation from everything I have seen. Also, if you precast a shadow (which may or may not be allowed in specific rules), there is a chance that they will cast MB for you once. That would give a few seconds of fhrlock since any damage will trigger it (welcome to the Assassin class).


aznbboi16, you were going to make a bowie for a level 41 tourney some time ago, right? Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else, but I your name sounds familiar.


And, really, you two are going way overboard here. Since nobody here in this discussion has even built one, we're making idiots of ourselves. Clan_Iraq has built one, but hasn't shown himself in this thread yet. If you manage to find the thread I started as speculation, you can find his comments there.

[aznbboi16]

Re: FHR lock
It's called knockback. That animation is longer than a FHR animation from everything I have seen. Also, if you precast a shadow (which may or may not be allowed in specific rules), there is a chance that they will cast MB for you once. That would give a few seconds of fhrlock since any damage will trigger it (welcome to the Assassin class).


aznbboi16, you were going to make a bowie for a level 41 tourney some time ago, right? Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else, but I your name sounds familiar.


And, really, you two are going way overboard here. Since nobody here in this discussion has even built one, we're making idiots of ourselves. Clan_Iraq has built one, but hasn't shown himself in this thread yet. If you manage to find the thread I started as speculation, you can find his comments there.
KB causes a double hit recovery animation, but it is still unreliable as a source of stun and also not very desirable on a melee character because by the time you're back in range, they could very well be out of stun. Also the chances are something like 25%-50% for a KB hit.

Yes, I was going to make a 41 bowazon. I do remember you as well, I think you had a kicker. Never actually made that zon, but I did make a 41 necro whom I'm quite fond of. It's a shame Clan-Honor is dead and so many people have quit.

Anyways, I specifically stated that this would be for pvm in the first post. At first I was only discussing the disadvantages of a bearsin in pvp, but things got pushy. This is theorycrafting from both sides, yes, but sins tend to get their monster stun from mind blast and traps. A bearsin cannot use either and a shadow will be quickly killed (and unable to be recast). Another fact is that a bearsin will have poor physical damage which will be unreliable to stun. Either you make a pretty big sacrifice to use +max charms/jewels and lose your poison and have mediocre damage or focus on strong poison.

If I have some time later, I'll go play around with the skill calc and make some damage calculations with a poison focused bear and a physical damage focused bear. I will post results here. Just need to know one thing, what is the str/dex dmg modifier for claws? .75 str and .75 dex correct?

I wouldn't trust that Clan_Iraq guy anyways.

[ilkori]

Unless a player specifically stacks poison resistance, it is rediculously powerful when played correctly. Speederlander has done the numbers on this more than anyone else in this forum, and has a good description in his guide. Don't forget both the double bonus from Poison Mastery and the -100% PLR Hell penalty in your calculations.

The other source of damage on Assassins is typically Open Wounds. It'll be hard putting it into this build, but getting it triggered does incredible things to opponent life. The only problem is finding a good source. Shadow Dancers make incredible boots, but Gores have a small percent, and blood belts have another small percent. Draculs have an "ok" percent, but Trang's gloves are desireable for the poison bonus.

I still think that Knockback is the best way to work with this. Unlike Zealots, Fury Druids, or WWers, the Bearsin would be using an attack they can adjust after every single attack. It would almost be like smite but with 2x-3x the speed, 1/4 the knockback chance, and a lower hit chance (and blockable). Numbers-wise it's weaker than Smite, but I would be very curious how it would do against other builds.


Yep, I had a 41 kicker. It's expired now, but I'm planning on rebuilding some time. There ended up being three of us who showed for the tourney - me and two WW barbs. We were fairly evenly matched, with one of the barbs being a bit stronger, and the other a bit weaker. It is very sad that CH is dead. I wish I'd found it earlier.

[aznbboi16]

Unless a player specifically stacks poison resistance, it is rediculously powerful when played correctly. Speederlander has done the numbers on this more than anyone else in this forum, and has a good description in his guide. Don't forget both the double bonus from Poison Mastery and the -100% PLR Hell penalty in your calculations.

The other source of damage on Assassins is typically Open Wounds. It'll be hard putting it into this build, but getting it triggered does incredible things to opponent life. The only problem is finding a good source. Shadow Dancers make incredible boots, but Gores have a small percent, and blood belts have another small percent. Draculs have an "ok" percent, but Trang's gloves are desireable for the poison bonus.

I still think that Knockback is the best way to work with this. Unlike Zealots, Fury Druids, or WWers, the Bearsin would be using an attack they can adjust after every single attack. It would almost be like smite but with 2x-3x the speed, 1/4 the knockback chance, and a lower hit chance (and blockable). Numbers-wise it's weaker than Smite, but I would be very curious how it would do against other builds.


Yep, I had a 41 kicker. It's expired now, but I'm planning on rebuilding some time. There ended up being three of us who showed for the tourney - me and two WW barbs. We were fairly evenly matched, with one of the barbs being a bit stronger, and the other a bit weaker. It is very sad that CH is dead. I wish I'd found it earlier.
Knockback could work to the advantage or disadvantage of this build, it's all speculation. Lots of melee are uninterruptible though. Zealots, smiters, wwbarbs to name a few. The use of a giant skull also gives up a lot of great mods from a shako as well, although the 2 sockets can make that up somewhat. Lag will also probably mess things up. Smite is already affected by slight lag and a 2 frame attack is sure to whiff air a couple times before actually moving towards your target again.

Not sure who the 3rd guy was, but one of those wwbarbs was *dullshinyman. Not sure if he was the stronger, but he was the eth hone sundan barb. He quit a while back and left me his accounts. If there's anything you need for your kicker I could look around whatever mules I have that aren't expired.

[ilkori]

Heh, I think I've had enough speculation for now, lol.

dullshinyman was slightly weaker - no shield meant both of us could tag him pretty well. I think his equipment was a lower level also (38 was it?). The other dueler was BadLikeMe.

If I get set up on a computer with a decent connection, I may look you up about that equipment offer.