Outline for Strafe/LF Hybrid

[FenrirKnight]

I've been thinking about making this hybrid for clearing areas with mass monsters such as the pits, chaos, tombs, jungle and cows. After playing for a few weeks on ladder, I'm still dirt poor. However, I have collected several useful items for a Zon, which is part of the reason I'm itching to make this character. Items include twitch, LOH, manald, various low runes for runewords, etc.

With that said, can someone provide me with a basic outline of how to make this specific type of hybrid (perhaps someone can point to a thread I missed)? I'm unclear about what skills and how much I will need besides the pre-reqs, strafe, and LF. Do I need only the 6 points in strafe for the max hits or go for more? What's the recommended pierce investment? Also, it seems people recommend opting for dex rather than vit--how do character survive in hell with this low hp? Lastly, what cheap equipment is viable for this build? I had been thinking about either rare javalins/titans with spirit monarch with a runeword elite bow on switch.

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond.

[BatTheMan]

Definetly max strafe
I've been wondering the same about Vita thingy. People's mentality is offense is best defense.

my Theory
if you kill 50% faster with more dex investment then monsters
die 50% faster so they they are 50% less likely to kill you or get near you. And you leech 50% more. But every hit you get can be leathal.

But If you have 50% more life it means you can afford to get hit by the enemy 50% more. But youll kill 50% slower.
Also the fact that you can stack on life charms life gear means whereas it's harder to stack on Dex charms and wont be as effective.
Most try to stay out of trouble they have valk decoy Slow missile.

You are just being safer and Have good life pool to fall back if something bad happens to you. I play HC so that's how I see it. If you dont mind dying than go dex. With all my HC character I try to get around 1000 life. It all comes down to preference. In softcore I wouldn't mind going all dex tho.

I'll invest enough dex for decent for blocking on my java switch. I'll also get Lavagout for chance to cast Enchant level 10 for ar. For skill I would go

20 LF
20 Strafe
20 Valk
1 Freezing arrow
X Ice arrow (to increase freezing lenght for freezing arrow)
enough in penetrate
enough in pierce
rest in dodge avoid evade

I go WWS uped so I dont need critical strike. For armor I suggest you get Treachery (highest rune is lem) not too fancy IMO level 15 venom is cool and 45 ias doesn't hurt.

Hope this makes sense and helps

edit: those items and build is what im planning to do myself.

[FrostyOne]

I'm building my first PvM Hybrid ever at the moment... Just hit lvl 83 last night night while running Pit a few times. Here's the Build thus far:

Skills:
Max Lightning Fury
Max Charged Strike
Max Strafe
1 in all Passives
5 Critical Strike
Prerequirements
Rest in Penetrate and Pierce

Gear:
Tal's Helm
Peace Armor (dusk shroud)
Sigon Belt-Glove-Boot
Nature's Peace
Rare Ring 50 life 57 mana resists
+2 Passive crafted blood ammy
Rhyme (dragon shield)
Eth 157-8% Titans
Blood Ravens Charge

Merc:
NM A2 Offence Merc
Gemmed Eth Great Hauburk with 2 PTopaz and 2 PAmythest
Eth Insight Collosus Voulge 17 Meditate
Tals Mask

Stats (approximate, I have a ton unspent in case Enigma doesn't work out):
86 Str
200 Dex
150 Vit
Base Energy

Pretty fun build so far I guess. This obviously isn't my 'endgame' gear, I've been super slack on tradeing... In fact, the only trade I have made thus far was a Tals Ammy for Unid Eth Titans. I guess my gear goals would be something like this:

Stealskull or Shako (I really prefer Stealskull on my Zons) w/ neato jewel
Chains of Honor or Enigma (Fortitude is overkill for my style of play)
LoH or Sickening Crafted Blood Gloves (passive)
Wartravs or Goreriders
T-Gods or IAS Belt (or maybe Dungos?)
Stormshield (with Cham of course!)
Mara's or Sickening Crafted Ammy (passive or +all) or IAS
SoJ+BK (or maybe Ravenfrost)
High ETH Upped Titans (190+, 9%)

Faith... Obviously. But realistically... Maybe a Harmony Mat Bow or a Tricked-out Witchwild (any suggestions here?)... If I can get Enigma maybe an Upped Buriza with 40ed jewel. This is really the weakest part of my Build right now, fortunatly tho, Lightning Immunes have not been nearly as annoying as I anticipated. Whats important here I think is a bow with preferably: +skills, an innate elemental attack or huge elemental damage, %atk increase or Ignore Targets Defence.... Hmm, maybe Brand? Not any cheaper than Faith, tho. I used Koku until I found a Blood Ravens Charge yesterday. Similar bows that work but I needed the AR from BRC [I saved Penetrate for last, so at lvl 92 (thats about as far as I go) I will have ~10 + whatever I get from gear].

Spirit Monarch... I have my doubts. While this IS a great runeword, I'm not sure how great it is for a Zon. The FCR is pretty much *natch* so we are left with +skills (also a debateable mod for Zons) +mana and some resists... However, if you have an Enigma then the FCR is double plus good. If I had 157 Str I'd try it out and let you know but not sure I'm willing to spend the points there until I see that Golden Unid SS laying in the mud or stumble upon Jah/Ber. There are alot of great options for shields honestly. I just really like the DR and high block of the SS.

You have probebly noted I don't boost Valk. Another personnal preferance I guess... I've built alot of Bowzons over the years and have come to the conclussion that points are wasted here. Maybe a style thing... I do tend to lead with decoy if I'm feeling paranoid (DoH, WSK.) I'm also a +passive charm hog. Really the best bang for the buck as far as charms go.

Is this Build better than a pure Strafer or a Strafe FAer? With the same gear? Highly debateble. LF makes bow Skills look puny for sure... But... I do miss some things. When I get better gear this ladder I'll finish this paragraph, lol.

Better than a Pure Javzon? Dunno, never built one. Really the things you are giving up here to make the Hybrid are either some points in Jab and LS or some in Poison skills. Good skills I suppose... I imagine a Strafe hybrid is about as powerful as a Jabber but can do it from a distance. LS? Haven't played with it much yet. I was using it before I got Titans to conserve on javs but ever since it's been LF/CS the whole way. Poison? Not interested, I hear it works tho.

Hope that helps!

Frosty_One

[Omikron8]

20 strafe
20 fury
10-20 penetrate
10-17 valk
50%+ crit
60%+ pierce
one in prereqs

Unless you are rich, strafe/fury hybrid is better than pure strafer or pure javazon

[FenrirKnight]

Thanks for the replys.

I'm now debating how much valk I need and if I should get charged strike. Also, how many points in pierce is needed to attain max pierce with razortail?

[interbet]

lvl 20 strafe
lvl 20 lightning fury
lvl 17 valkyrie
lvl 12 critical strike
lvl 5 pierce
lvl 5 penetrate

stats @ 83 -
97/288/105/15

that's my very odd skill/stat layout for my zon. I really didnt know what direction I was going so I have 12 points in cs (just decided to be a hybrid like around lvl 70something, as I had a lot of skill points saved and found a titans :p), but it seems to come in super handy when im 1on1ing a boss and im firing serious bolts at it so that a good deal of them are doing double dmg of just under 3.5k (those people with godly bows probably feel sorry for me :/).

Just by playing I've found valk to be super useful as I can use the valk to herd monsters together so that I can either strafe or LF them. Even though I'm coming off a 2 year hiatus from D2, i think my first zon build is decent and can kill with not that much effort. Still pretty poor since ive only been at this for 2 weeks, but I manage :j.

[mgill1772]

20 strafe
20 fury
10-20 penetrate
10-17 valk
50%+ crit
60%+ pierce
one in prereqs

Unless you are rich, strafe/fury hybrid is better than pure strafer or pure javazon

I agree, but I have alway been a fan or the ice bow skills, FA with a powerful bow can kill in hell, wf + loh glove and might and you can even spam FA at high lvls 25+ with lowish ml (5-8%), just another option

[DudSpud]

As far as the strafe/LF hybrids go, I am squarely in the Valk > ChSt camp. I build her as a ranged attacker, and I don't really want to get in close for the poking and expose myself. And as a ranger, another meat shield is exactly what I need. Sure, I have trouble with bosses, but she is built to run areas like pits and cows, not bosses.

Also, remember that penetrate needs a fair number of points. Your chance to hit with Strafe is a lie - the bonus from the strafe skill is added to the LCS number but not too your actual chance to hit. Critical strike is nice, but I like to use upped WWS, so it is irrelevant to me. Pierce is the only "synergy" for LF that matters, and it doesn't hurt strafe, either.

Now, if I were to go with ChSt, I would just go all Javazon with 1 pt jab for LI. And under these circumstances, I would get Spirit, because every + skill means one more LF bolt, more damage, more chance to pierce and more ChSt damage. True, +skills on a bowie are kinda worthless, except +passives, but on javazons they fit naturally. In fact, this is the dilemma I always have with my hybrids - to boost LF/pierce with + skills or go with res/damage/etc.

Anyhow, good luck with however you decide to play her.

DudSpud

[eCentric]

20 strafe
20 fury
10-20 penetrate
10-17 valk
50%+ crit
60%+ pierce
one in prereqs

Unless you are rich, strafe/fury hybrid is better than pure strafer or pure javazon

You think this is the best route to go?

I think i might take it sounds very good..

-interbet what would u recommend for stats?

[Dacar92]

I would rather go 20 LF, 20 CS, 1 in each strafe and FA. That's it in the bow tree except for prereqs. Then a high level valk and more synergies to LF. A maxed out LF zon is nearly unstoppable in hell. Use strafe and FA for PI's and LI's.

[Omikron8]

20 strafe
20 fury
10-20 penetrate
10-17 valk
50%+ crit
60%+ pierce
one in prereqs

Unless you are rich, strafe/fury hybrid is better than pure strafer or pure javazon

You think this is the best route to go?

I think i might take it sounds very good..

-interbet what would u recommend for stats?

Considering i did that exact build season one AND season two with mediocre/garbage quality gear and got rapidly rich both times by pit running with THIS build, YES i would say it is the best way to go.

[sangfagel]

Considering i did that exact build season one AND season two with mediocre/garbage quality gear and got rapidly rich both times by pit running with THIS build, YES i would say it is the best way to go.
Never change a working project... huh!? :D

Well, the basic idea in all these builds is using strafe/LF and this combo just must work - ther´s no shame in looking for modifications.

This ladder I decided to make some changes in my hybrid build. Instead to pump up passives I maxed up CA and now I am developing synergy. It´s something like this:
1 Strafe
20 LF
20 FA
15 or 16 Valky
2 to all avoid passives
2-3 crit/penetrate,
1 pierce
it will be
20 CA

The only disadvantage of this build I can see so far (clvl 79, A4) is that I can´t change my Buri to WF (or another good bow) before I will obtain + 6-7 to passives in gloves/charms.

[FenrirKnight]

I would rather go 20 LF, 20 CS, 1 in each strafe and FA. That's it in the bow tree except for prereqs. Then a high level valk and more synergies to LF. A maxed out LF zon is nearly unstoppable in hell. Use strafe and FA for PI's and LI's.

If you don't mind, can you explain the logic behind having 1 point in strafe? Wouldn't that only limit your strafe to a few shot per round? I suppose it's only to take down the few immunes?

Also, what's a good balance of dex/vit for this build?

[Dacar92]

If you don't mind, can you explain the logic behind having 1 point in strafe? Wouldn't that only limit your strafe to a few shot per round? I suppose it's only to take down the few immunes?

Also, what's a good balance of dex/vit for this build?


A few reasons for this: there are only a few LI's that your merc and valk will need help with. If you have a decent bow on switch that gives decent damage but also has some other mods like fire and cold damage (buriza comes to mind, but there are others) they should be taken down in time. The points saved can be spent in synergies to LF (and charged strike) and everything else in the game will be taken down very quickly.

I would put every point in vit, except those you need for gear. A javazon is not a barbarian and probably won't reach 2500 life, but she is still melee. You need all you can in vit. Save whatever you need for whatever gear you plan to use and spend those in st and dex (and for blocking).

[eCentric]

since i havent made a zon before how many prereq are there to the desired skills ?? And its all 3 Passive,Java, Bow Skills...

Also what stats do you recommend?

Are these zons worth it? Should i just go PVP.... and are they capable of rushing hell or mf runnin (meph)

[Omikron8]

For the build (strafe/fury, NO FA) i described

Base strength depends on your equipment options

It happens to be that lots of decent/good bowazon equipment gives bonuses to strength

Chains of Honor
Twitchthroe
Andy's Visage
Nos Coil
War Travelers
etc.

I don't know what bows are available to you but a hydra bow str req is 134 (i think) so that is the highest you would possibly have to aim for. I would settle for an upgraded witchwild string diamond bow which would require far less. A good figure for base strength for a level 80 bowazon (in case you need to level up some more to correct some mistakes) would be 80-100.

Vitality (even in softcore) would really depend on your reflexes and your ping. In the pit all it takes is a good concentrated volley of rogue archer shots and you will die instantly if you happen to be targeted simultaneously by a group. In my experiences a LIFE amount of 700-900 allows for survival of at least one really damn strong (eg. cursed + extra strong archer shot) hit. This of course implies that you have full rejuvs in your belt and have your fingers hovering over the 1-4 buttons waiting to press them in under a second. Therefore for a poor-average build i would recommend a base vitality amount of 80. This would of course decrease with increasing item wealth :)

Large and small sustenance or vita charms (without second mods) are quite common from regular monster charm drops in nightmare/hell so you can easily get hundreds of more life from that source.

No this is not the optimum build for pvp because

1) Lightning fury is essentially worthless in pvp

2) Base one dodge/avoid/evade will get you ripped to pieces against physical damage builds.

3) Valkyrie/pierce/penetrate don't matter much in pvp either but they DO matter a hell of a lot in pvm

Yes this build can "rush" characters in hell fairly well if by rush you mean killing everything in your path in a decent amount of time. Remember that casting breakpoints for amazons are just pathetic so enigma should not even be considered for teleportation (the other mods are good i admit, but no resistances AND no IAS on a bowazon armor is worthless in my opinion).

NO this build is very much pointless to running mephisto at nightmare/hell due to obscene durance of hate level sizes and other issues such as doll explosions. In 1.10/1.11 the only worthwhile (unless you want to spend 5-15 minutes per run) meph running builds are sorcs (insert killing spell of choice here, i recommend blizzard due to cold mastery) or enigma using hammerdins/windies/necros/etc. (which won't happen on ladder anyways due to no duped runes....yet).

The best backup to face physical immunes is to switch to titans/shield and use level one (or 5 with titans bonus) lightning bolt to convert your physical jav throw damage into lightning damage. Now if the enemy is phys AND light immune then you have to rely on more creative solutions such as

1) Reaper's Toll on Merc for decrepify (only works for monster's with less than 105% physical resistance)

2) Atma's Ammy (not recommended due to the pwnage of cat's eye/highlords) or the amp chance cast on witchwild string itself

3) Cold/fire damage from dual ravens + elemental damage from large/small charms.

[Dacar92]

You guys, I am an idiot. I misread the thread title. I recommended 1 point in strafe and FA. But what I didn't realize is that he wanted to build a strafe fury hybrid. Not a fury javazon with strafe as a back up skill. I am sorry for the bad advice. I promise to read the title of the threads before I open my mouth. My advice will work, but just not for this build. Doh!

*hits head against wall in frustration* Ouch. That hurt.

[eCentric]

What kind of merc should a hybrid get?

Act 2?
Status?
Difficulty level?

[Dacar92]

Holy Freeze or might, depending on how you like to play. I personally like HF since it slows monsters and it is a little easier to hit them while strafing. LF should do enough damage on it's own without a might merc.

[eCentric]

would u rather have one offending with you or defending u...?

[Dacar92]

would u rather have one offending with you or defending u...?


Here's some help with mercs. A HF merc is available in act 2 nightmare (same with a might merc; might is available only in act 2 nightmare mode as well).

Combat (Normal): Prayer
Combat (Nightmare): Thorns
Combat (Hell): Prayer
Defense (Normal): Defiance
Defense (Nightmare): Holy Freeze
Defense (Hell): Defiance
Offense (Normal): Blessed Aim
Offense (Nightmare): Might
Offense (Hell): Blessed Aim


From Arreat Summit (http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/basics/hirelings.shtml).

[mgill1772]

if soft i say off all the way, id rather kill stuff faster, more damage

[Zalcitabine]

I have built 2-3 of this kind of hybrid now and imho its better to go for a more synergized lightning route. From what i saw:

-Even a medium javazon will kill packs of monsters (non lightning immune of course) faster than a bowazon with good gear.

-Many (i almost dare to say most) of the lightning immune monsters in hell are wraith-like type, thus having lower hitpoints than other monsters. Thats highly debatable, i know, but quite true.


I would then do:

20 lightning fury
20 charged strike
20 lightning strike
17+ in valk
1-6 strafe
1 guided arrow (depending on your +skills)
1+ magic arrow (1 for me, more if you want to kill light/phys immunes quicker)
1+ critical strike (depending gear/taste, for me 4-5)
1+ penetrate (same as above)
1+ dodge


With this build you can cow, pit and all PLUS you can go boss killing, thx to a nicely synergized cs. You can also with the proper gear use it to do fast chaos/wsk runs, killing everything there without having to use a merc (reviving an iron maided merc :rolleyes: ) and killing quickly baal/diablo at the end, something even a godly bowazon will have trouble doing without a merc.

You have to find a good balance of +skills, ias and mf, if you use that character for mfing. Since you will probably have low ar (i prefer to have java/passives/resists charms in inventory with this build) i strongly recommend you to have a bow that ignore target defence, like eaglehorn and faith or a bow that gives a nice boost to ar like goldstrike arch.

That was the first character i made this ladder, playing it solo to hell baal no problem. You dont need godly gear to make it work, here's my current set-up (it's my mfer too btw):

-Stealskull
-Highlords
-Lionheart mageplate
-Rhyme grim shield
-Raven
-rare ring with mf/resists
-Goldwrap
-Titans
-Eaglehorn
-Rare boots with mf, frw and resists


Nothing incredibly expensive and still i can quickly do cows, pits, schenk/eldritch, countess, pindle and meph. Running to meph isnt too long when you follow the edge of the map clockwise, killing things on the way (i got ik armor about 2 weeks ago that way) and meph himself die in about 7-8 seconds with cs. With gear like faith/chain of honor you can take your mf to chaos/wsk no problem.



Edit:I forgot to say that you are better to group the skills together with the hotkeys, that is easier on your brain.
My setup:

all on the right mouse click:
a= lightning fury
s= lightning strike
d= charged strike
z= strafe
x= guided arrow
c= valk

on the left:
jab, magic arrow on switch

other hotkeys:
q= inventory
w= character window
e= merc window
r= party window
t= skill window
y= quests window
shift= switch weapon
control= map on/off
space= display objects

With these hotkeys your thumb is always on the space and little finger on ctrl so you can toggle your maps/show objects at will. When you switch to your bow/jav, your 3 longest fingers just have to move a little and you have all you useable skills under them. I always use that setup because i find it the fastest and most confortable.

And yea im probably fussy about that kind of thing because im a pianist :p


Zalc

[mgill1772]

-Many (i almost dare to say most) of the lightning immune monsters in hell are wraith-like type, thus having lower hitpoints than other monsters. Thats highly debatable, i know, but quite true.


I think your nearly correct, another reason I prefer ice over strafe....you do have a weaker valk by puttin point into ice however, I think its preference....ice also rips tainted, and light immune frenzytaur, often two of the most difficult LI's

[FenrirKnight]

Thanks for that suggestion Zalc. Have you had experience mf'in other lev 85 areas like Mausoleum or anything with that build? I'm kinda worried there are too many LI's and thus need more in strafe.

But otherwise I guess I'm going to make a java now with strafe backup.

[FrostyOne]

Just an update to my post above...

My pit runs finally paid off last friday and I popped an Ik and Tal armor within 2 hours of eachother with ~220MF. After trades, my hybrid is now officially kicking *** in hell, did my first 'rush 4 forge' this morning with 0 deaths.

Equipment now @ Lvl 87:

Stealskull w/ Ptopaz
Laying of Hands (still crafting)
Perf upped Goldwrap
Stormshield w/ Pdiamond
Eth Prudence Archon or Wealth (switch off with merc)
War Travs (low)
Ravenfrost (low) - 30mf Nagel - Natures Peace
Rare Ammy +2 ama / 4ml / massive fire and light resists / mf
Eth upped Titans
Windforce w/ 36ed/15ias jewel

3 passive charms, 2 jav charms, 10max 102ar 5dex GC, and a bunch of 8-11 resist sc's

Next Stop: Coh or Faith

I ended up spending most of my saved up stat points in strength to equip the SS. I still don't regret my 1 point Valk. I do think I could have spent less points in Strafe tho and maybe got FA with the points I saved. But... when I initially maxed strafe I had a craptastic bow. Still useing a NM might merc with same setup, no plans to change now, the 700% mana regen is just sickening. I am, however, curious about the polearms that lower lightning resist... Not real happy with Windforce because its got no inate attack but it's only temporary I hope and I got a good deal =).

Don't want to start a riot here but I really am feeling like this build is better than a pure bowzon. CS absolutely destroyes Act bosses. LF seems to kill just as fast (if not faster) than my maxxed out Faith Strafer from last ladder. The ability to wield a shield increases survivability like 100 times over a pure Bower.

~Frosty_One

[Zalcitabine]

Thanks for that suggestion Zalc. Have you had experience mf'in other lev 85 areas like Mausoleum or anything with that build? I'm kinda worried there are too many LI's and thus need more in strafe.

But otherwise I guess I'm going to make a java now with strafe backup.

You can run mausoleum and probably be able to kill everything there with the build but you have to ask yourself if its worth it. Your killing speed will be much slower because everyone and their little sister in there is light immune. Also im not quite fond of that place because there aren't alot of monsters/boss packs. That's why i prefer to stick to other lvl 85 areas like pits/ancients tunnels/river of flame all the time, even with my meteorb sorc.

Dont waste more than one point in strafe unless its for a pure strafer where you want max damage. A more powerful bow will make a far better difference imho. Even a good rare with nice damage and/or fool's mod (max damage/ar based on char lvl) with do the job.


Zalc