CB Kicker or CB Smiter?

[skytouch]

For hardcore, which route is better? or are they about the same?

CB Assassin Kicker <VS> CB Paladin Smiter

i used to play diablo but haven't played in a long while, wanna start up for the new 1.11 patch^^ Thanks for any input :)

[PhatTrumpet]

Sin can deal out the CB a little faster.

Pally should win out in raw damage for the finish.

Sin has a bit more versatility.

Pally gets better resists with Salvation than Sin gets with Fade.


I think it ultimately comes down to what gear you have access to.

[skytouch]

Sin can deal out the CB a little faster.

Pally should win out in raw damage for the finish.

Sin has a bit more versatility.

Pally gets better resists with Salvation than Sin gets with Fade.


I think it ultimately comes down to what gear you have access to.

In terms of Life/Def -> Pali wins? Does Fade have Damage Reduction? Lastly, does Smite have life leech? I'm sure kick does right?

CB Barb -> they any good? and does missile attacks (zon) have CB? Thanks for your time ^^

[stevethatsmyname]

ranged attacks.... CB is pretty crappy.

Personally I would use assn because i generally like asassin support skills better (fade, cloak of shadows, mind blast , shadow, etc)

but thats a personal call.

[HelzCaretaker]

leech assassin, dr assassin (fade), life about equal, overall damage pally, speed assassin, leech assassin, elemental dmg assassin (psn from venom), always hits smiter, attack speed kicker, defense pally.

From this it looks like kick is better but a few things to note:
smiters can't leech, but can use remeption or zeal for leeching
smite is itd which helps a lot
kickers depending on skills can hit a lot per cycle and the cycles are fast too (7/2/2/2 etc frame)
smite stuns regular monsters
kickers can drop 1 pt into mindblast and take care of stun bonus
smiters have aura to help their merc

Personally I hate most paladin builds other then zealots, I view the rest as ***** builds. Kickers also cost less (imo), since you just need upgraded gores and rest of gear is fairly cheap, while a pally needs HoZ/sanctuary/or that defiance shield runeword.

I'd base decision on ability to get gear and how good you are at leveling (imo kicker easier to lvl)

CB whirlwind barbs can be nice, I'm tempted to upgrade a hone sundan, with gores and highlords thats some fast cb. Range = 1/2 of melee cb damage.

[Sip]

Smite is better than kick and thats the bottom line.

Smite will always hit the target...with kick, you'd be lucky that 1 in 5 kicks hits the target. If you are going after Uber Bosses then you'd hit them even less because of their massive Def and block. Assasins have AR problems with kicking.

Paladins Auras are another reason that makes them better.

Smite also stuns and knocks back, which also makes them get hit less and can therefore continue to attack with ease.

Edit: Get an item that casts life tap, like draculs...and you can leech

[HelzCaretaker]

assassins have huge attack rating, they should have problems hitting with decent ar rings. While lvling my smiter with pretty decent gear vs my kicker I thought my kicker was much better due to leech. Vs uber bosses I'd prefer smiter really for regular bosses/monsters I'd prefer kicker.

[Baranor]

Smite is better than kick and thats the bottom line.

Smite will always hit the target...with kick, you'd be lucky that 1 in 5 kicks hits the target. If you are going after Uber Bosses then you'd hit them even less because of their massive Def and block. Assasins have AR problems with kicking.

Paladins Auras are another reason that makes them better.

Smite also stuns and knocks back, which also makes them get hit less and can therefore continue to attack with ease.

Edit: Get an item that casts life tap, like draculs...and you can leech

no they dont. kickers easily hit 15K ar.

[skytouch]

so does Fade have Damage Reduction? This is a very gray area for me..

if they do.. if i have max DR from equipment (i'm assuming cap is 75%) then will extra DR from fade add on? or will it all cap at a certain % like 75? Thanks.

If Assassins can hit uber bosses with a fairly decent %-to-hit rate, i think i'll go with them, oh yah, does BOS affect kick speed?

[HelzCaretaker]

Kick speed is determined by speed, for the most part it takes VERY little to hit max kick speed. One thing to note is damage reduce is capped pvm and pvp at 50%.

Fade adds a hidden 1% dr per lvl so theoretically if you had 50 fade, you'd have max damage reduce. I don't know how well a kicker would hit an uber boss, also not sure their chance of survival due to lower life, with bo it will probably be fine. Max fade+skills can easily get you to 30% dr, which leaves a lot of room for non dr gear.

[Aerath]

Kicker can also lean back vs IM and use Blade Fury whilst still delivering CB.

Kicker can MB w/ IM around. Kicker can lay down Death Sentries. Kicker gets a big help in a big shadow master.

As you might think, I'm fairly biased towards assassins.

[HelzCaretaker]

not to mention massive curse length reduction from fade

[STINGER]

Smite is better than kick and thats the bottom line.

Smite will always hit the target...with kick, you'd be lucky that 1 in 5 kicks hits the target. If you are going after Uber Bosses then you'd hit them even less because of their massive Def and block. Assasins have AR problems with kicking.

Paladins Auras are another reason that makes them better.

Smite also stuns and knocks back, which also makes them get hit less and can therefore continue to attack with ease.

Edit: Get an item that casts life tap, like draculs...and you can leech


UGH......1 in 5??? Where the hell you get that at?

Tucs, Angelics FTW, you can even use (2) rings if you want! I had like 9500 AR on my D Talon Sin and she kicked the living **** out of anything but finishing was a bit tuffer as she only used upped GToes and only upped once.

There is no doubt ITD rocks and when it comes to killing a single target, a boss, Smite beats DT Sin hands down due to ITD, but when it comes to playing the entire game DT sin can go anywhere and kill things.

IIRC I ran:

Tals or Vamp I forget
Nats Armor all Rubies (Ghetto Rules)
Tucs/Jade
GToes upped
Angelics ammy/Ring
Raven


For the life of me I am not sure what belt and gloves.

Melee charms can be had CHEAP and every little bit of AR in charms is BIG

I didint worry about kicking speed, I ran Fade 100%, used my Venom and my Merc was solid but not uber.

Max DT
Max Venom
Max Master
Max Fade
1 point Blade Fury
1 point Death Sentry
1 Mind Blast
1 Cloak


IIRC.......been a year now or close.

If you want to break speed records for killing bosses this isnt the build but by God she will kill them!

[Aerath]

Tals or Vamp I forget
Nats Armor all Rubies (Ghetto Rules)
Tucs/Jade
GToes upped
Angelics ammy/Ring
Raven



Minor alteration for what mine was running :

Rare Circlet, +skills, +Res, +FRW, socketed with a mindmg/AR jewel (could care less about the 10 min dmg, but the AR was golden)
Duress Armour (CB/Res)
Tucs/Jade
Upped Gorerider or maybe Shadowdancer (think the latter, after I got them)
Rare Ammy +skill, +res, +stat (think some dex)
Raven + Rare Ring (AR/Mana Leech, probably some res)
Gloves... Either Draculs, or Bloodfist, or Rares w/ +Martial, IAS/RES/LIFE/Mana or Life Leech. Fairly easy to craft, fairly easy to gamble.
Can't remember belt... Might even have been a Blade Buckle, but more likely a rare w/ FHR, Life, Res. Plenty of options there anyway.

[bipolar]

so does Fade have Damage Reduction? This is a very gray area for me..

if they do.. if i have max DR from equipment (i'm assuming cap is 75%) then will extra DR from fade add on? or will it all cap at a certain % like 75? Thanks.

If Assassins can hit uber bosses with a fairly decent %-to-hit rate, i think i'll go with them, oh yah, does BOS affect kick speed?
To answer your question: Yes, fade has DR. 1% per point. However, DR is capped for all chars, regardless of skills or equipment, at 50%.

[LuckyDwarf]

To answer your question: Yes, fade has DR. 1% per point. However, DR is capped for all chars, regardless of skills or equipment, at 50%.

Fade = 1% DR for every base point you put in it, maxing out at 20%, however, there is diminishing returns on the resists though, so if you're in it for the DR, then max it, if not, 1-5 points is fine for res.

Lucky

[Aerath]

With the setup above, that's all you need anyway with two +3 Shadow Claws on switch.