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Hi,
i really want to play hc, and if my diablo will work properly (now i have one big error...), i will play with you on hc :)
But... what char to start?
Can you describe in a few words some of the best pvm/mf firsc hc chars?
I think ill need a good MF char, right? But i dont want it do mf on nm and DIE on hell. Well... im not a professionalist, pls tell me some basics about chars :)
ps. Maybe Zeal pala? Or FrezeeZealot? Or... SkellieNecro? I have no idea :D
If you like Skelly Necros and feel you play them well its a great build to start with as they can get buy with very poor gear. They can also MF all the lvl 85 areas like the Pits. They can cow for charms and jools and socket items and can solo most anywhere.
Key here is you need to build to live not build for power early. First place to die will be Diablo in Norm although he can be easy with Decrep Wand and some Bone Spear and alot of pots. Your Skellys wont be worth a crap though.
Level your skellys slowly. getting max numbers of them early is a bad move as you bypass some needed things like Bone Armor (1) point only, and then all in Wall and Prison (since Marrows bug is fixed)
I personally liek to get to say 5-6 Skellys and then start boosting my Wall so it makes my Spear and Armor stronger. Then I level my skellys slowly after that. By lvl 40ish is a good time to get close to max skellys.
Use a lvl 1 Amp and lvl 1 CE, you never really need more than this as you will find +skills to boost them eventually. Decrep IMO is a must in Hell but I would get it ASAP as it is very good along the way also, and once again 1 point only.
Use your Prison and Walls but be carefull.
Use the Spear to get a corpse or to help minions kill bosses.
1 point ins Revives.
Clay Golem 1 point
There have been many "how to's" about this build even more drawn out than this.
End Game Build:
VITA VITA VITA (you ahve no items to get max block)
Base Mana (use Saphires in helms for mana and every crappy charm you find)
Base Dex (until late game where you might add)
Str 30 early, probably no more than 60 late but maybe a tad more for gear.
Max Skelly
Max Mastery
Max Wall
Max Spear
1 Bone Armor
1 CE
1 Summon Rez
1 Revive
1 Clay
1 decrep
1 Lower rez (for partys mostly but cna be used to kill PIs as CE is 50% fire and LR boosts its damage if you cant remove the PI with Amp)
You fingure out the prereqs......
Spear lets you kill or help kill. Bad thing about skellys is they never attack what you want them to. If there are 10 targets and one is particularly nasty they will always not attack him. Spear allows you to attack him, or get a corpse faster to CE him with. At times you will think "why I get this?" but that 2-5% of the time when you use it you will know why!!!
What kills Necros is lack of Bone Armor or lack of use of it. That and "leading"....when solo, inch your way along, take 5 steps and stop and let skellys catch up.
Bone Armor = Life
If you ahve 1200 life and XXX Bone Armor Absorb than you basically have 1200+XXX = Life.
Option skill that works wonders
Confuse 1 point
i personally love my max CE...when you are in a game by yourself the skill will slaughter monsters.
If this is the beggining of your HC career expect to eventually get a good level, find a few nice items, then die, its how it goes, get used to it :)
Stinger said preetty much everything with a beginning build, so ima just tell you are doomed to die :) j/k
The one thing that will always save your life as a skele necro....especially if you solo...is to take it slow, try to make it so that if an enemy spots you, your skele is close enough to step in front and cover.
i personally love my max CE...when you are in a game by yourself the skill will slaughter monsters.
Oh in 1.09 I loved max CE also but that was also with bugged Bone Armor and Skellys that hit like flies! Problem with Max CE now is those points have to come from somewhere so do you not have a Bone Spear or have less lowerfull Bone Armor?
IIRC
CE lvl 1 is 4 yards?
CE lvl 20 is like 12 yds?
Each point invested gains you like (1) foot in radius.
1 point in CE and +8 in skills is lvl 9 ish and 8ish yards? or is it feet?
Screen witdth on 600 x 800 is 13yds???
lvl 1 CE can pop the whole screen in 3 casts, lvl 10 in 2 and lvl 20+ in one but 20 points put into Bone wall is 20 x 15 Absorb, and also boosts your Bone Spear.
Your choice!
Valar-Wrath
03-08-2005, 21:52
Can you describe in a few words some of the best pvm/mf firsc hc chars?
Jesus Stinger, he said a few words, not an essay! :p :lol:
Fastest character to MF with-Sorc, I'd suggest orb/tk but Blizzard is nice as well. Grab a wiz spike, whitstans, and viper(all for pgems) and you're set.
Safest mf characters-Skellimancer, as Stinger has already described. A close second is the light trapper assassin. Both can be effective with vendor bought gear.
The sorc is used mostly for running bosses such as Baal, Meph, and Andy. Cold sorks can do Ancient Tunnels very well also.
The necro and trapsin are more for the super-uniques such as Pindle, Eldritch, etc. Necros can also run Pits/Trav very well.
If you want to be a little less common, make a strafer. :) I had a WF strafer zon a while back and everything in the pits were destroyed in one strafe. :clap:
My favorite safe build to play is trapper. Great for soloing because they have 3 forms of damage, so immunities are irrelevant ... mostly. Safe because your shadow master is a freaking tank, and mind blast keeps the baddies preoccupied. Great for first char because Nat's set, which is extremely decent for trapper, is dirt cheap, as is a Tucs for the offhand. Be sure to get some 20 IAS gloves, and maybe use a socket quest on your nat claw with a jewel of fervor/shael in there.
20 Fireblast
20 Light Sentry
20 Death Sentry
20 Shock Web (for synergies, maxed last)
1 BoS
1-3 Fade (depending on + skills)
1 Mind Blast
7+ Shadow Master (depending on + skills)
You'll use BoS in Normal and mostly Fade in NM and Hell. With Nat set, your 7+ point fade will easily max your resists in Hell with just a bit of help from jewelry and charms. Nat's set has 30% damage reduction and extra DR from fade.
General strategy is:
- against non-lr mobs, lay down 5 light sentrys and as soon as a corpse appears, a death sentry.
- against lr mobs, mind blast x 3, spam fireblast, lay death sentry.
If your IAS is high enough, you spam those fire bombs extremely fast. Only problem with this build (assuming you, like me, are not rich enough for Infinity) is somewhat slow mf. I tended to run Pits, shenk, eldritch, pindle, ancient tunnels.
@ bipolar
I always have great difficult defeating Durial (can't run awaaaaay heh). Is it possible for this build to solo him/it? Is shadow strong enough?
Rgs
Teren
I dont use spear/armour, since i over allocate in Amp and revive since I/he will have little +skill items except a wand/shield and maybe a helmet.
And yes you are true an your mesurments but i dont usually play i a game by myself and if its sp im not on players 1 so having that kind of raius will allow you to kill a horde in 5-6 explosions and not 25...big differance....the more players there are the greater your benefits of a bigger radius. Since it doesnt scale up.(yes i know you knew that)
Valar-Wrath
03-08-2005, 23:21
@ bipolar
I always have great difficult defeating Durial (can't run awaaaaay heh). Is it possible for this build to solo him/it? Is shadow strong enough?
Rgs
Teren
Although I'm not Bipolar, I can answer this. :D
Yes, it is possible for this build to solo Duriel. It's possible for any build to solo him I would imagine. Have your shadow+merc tank while you spam traps. Don't be afraid to go to town when low on pots or your merk dies. Make sure you have your merk decked out with the best possible bought gear and spam like hell!
Also, thawing potions are you friend. And always keep a line of juvs ready.
@ bipolar
I always have great difficult defeating Durial (can't run awaaaaay heh). Is it possible for this build to solo him/it? Is shadow strong enough?
Rgs
Teren
Yes, thanks to an amazing cheap runeword for your merc. Obedience is simply incredible for the runes involved and lets even poor people's mercs own just about anything ... highest rune is only Ko, and it has an amazing 370% ed and 40% crushing, plus resists, defense, and lower enemy fire resistance. Still on the cheap, pair up with a gaze for LL and DR (roughly worth pul on EHCL, and your merc reaches two more breakpoints with a 0 speed weapon if you socket gaze with fervor jewel) and shaft (again worth about Pul). Obedience in eth thresh does 991 max damage, and mercs total damage is 3000+
Only downside to using Obedience is that my trapper hurts for mana. I generally switch to Obedience for bosses and use Insight the remainder of the time.
FWIW, I solo'd Hell rather easily with basically the above items. Toughest were Ancients ... rerolled those many, many times.
[edit] My first post should say Enigma rather than Infinity, but can't edit that post now =\
Valar-Wrath
03-08-2005, 23:25
Yes, thanks to an amazing cheap runeword for your merc. Obedience is simply incredible for the runes involved and lets even poor people's mercs own just about anything ... highest rune is only Ko, and it has an amazing 370% ed and 40% crushing, plus resists, defense, and lower enemy fire resistance. Still on the cheap, pair up with a gaze for LL and DR (roughly worth pul on EHCL, and your merc reaches two more breakpoints with a 0 speed weapon if you socket gaze with fervor jewel) and shaft (again worth about Pul). Obedience in eth thresh does 991 max damage, and mercs total damage is 3000.
Hmm, what difficulty was he talking about? My advice was for normal Duriel, as he gives a lot of trouble for any character trying to solo him. Meh.
Hmm, what difficulty was he talking about? My advice was for normal Duriel, as he gives a lot of trouble for any character trying to solo him. Meh.
Ah, I was assuming Hell, as he asked about Shadow and you won't have Shadow Master by the time you face normal Durial.
Normal Durial is always tricky, but my strategy when playing untwinked is to save up every rejuv pot I've found up to that point, cube them into full rejuvs, and save in stash for Durial. I generally have about a dozen or so by that point. Buy your defiance merc the best gear you can and town portal as necessary to revive merc/restock pots.
Until I have about +3/4 skills from items, I play with shield, switching to dual claw in late normal/early nm. Invest a few points in dex and shop a shield of deflecting, and you should be ok spamming fire blasts -- should be pretty powerful as, at level 18+, you'll have a level 1 fade, level 1 shadow warrior, and 12 points in fire blast.
Valar-Wrath
03-08-2005, 23:41
Ah, I assumed he was talking about Shadow Warrior.
Maybe we should ask him? ;)
I dont use spear/armour, since i over allocate in Amp and revive since I/he will have little +skill items except a wand/shield and maybe a helmet.
And yes you are true an your mesurments but i dont usually play i a game by myself and if its sp im not on players 1 so having that kind of raius will allow you to kill a horde in 5-6 explosions and not 25...big differance....the more players there are the greater your benefits of a bigger radius. Since it doesnt scale up.(yes i know you knew that)
That is fine if you intend to be solo or with people that dont get lag from maxx minions. Your excessively exaggerated 5-6 vs 25 CEs is so far from reality and should be ignored!
I placed a couple of lvl 87+ Skellymancers on the Classic Ladder as well as a couple 9x+ in LoD during S1 & 2 in 1.10 and ALL of them had lvl 1 CE and I never had issues! No, none of them died to anything but expieration or ladder resets. I could run CS or Baal runs minionless and not have concerns of dieing hitting portals and I never was worried about the stairs to the Throne either as I had Armor and Life to handle it.
Max CE is a complete and total waste of very valuable skill points!
ps. Maybe Zeal pala? Or FrezeeZealot? Or... SkellieNecro? I have no idea :D
I stuck to what was mentioned in the post so I didnt go into Sins but a Trapper is one of the best builds to solo with or even group play with but some hate the Master. Dont let that change your mind in using here you can simply run wihtout her in partys.
Personally if i made a build for a ladder reset with the current game I would make a Light Trapper as I have made (2) of them in S1 and S2 and both sat in the Top 10 until I left the game and the S1 Trapper finished there. The list of places she can go is only limited to how you build. If you go with Bipolars build you have very little issue with anywhere but if you go all out Light you will have some restrictions but a good merc, Master and a LR wand can fix most of those.
Sorcs....unless you are extremely confident in playing one wiht crap gear it is probably the worst build to start with in the game. You will pump energy and end up with no life and not enuff dex and poor block and she will die miserably somewhere.
tranj84cl
03-08-2005, 23:58
Note on the playing the skelliemancer:
Attract is a must imo. Skillful use of it pretty much ensures that your skellies never die, and when your skellies spread out and lure in everyone under the sun, it helps keep the fighting somewhat sane.
Nothing more fun than lvl 18, Confuse, and Light Scarabs in Act 2!
Disclaimer: Please have some light resists!
Valar-Wrath
04-08-2005, 00:25
You will pump energy and end up with no life and not enuff dex and poor block and she will die miserably somewhere.
Why?
I've started off with an orb/tk sorc both ladder seasons and have yet to regret it. Why pump energy when you have an easily accessible Insight? Why not enough dex and poor block when a Whitstans is dirt cheap and can be found just as easily? Why no life when you have enough strength for a viper when you find it(and you will, if you mf a little) and enough dex for blocking with said shield? The rest goes into life.
The only way I see her dying miserably somehwere is if you don't know how to build one correctly or are completely new to HC sorks in general.
Come now, you are ignoring the obvious and no this isnt a "knock" on the original poster but it is SOP in SC to pump energy go no block and have little life, no charms so you cna carry all the loot. Hell he might be looking forward to his Lidless!
You dont start HC and just trun over a new leaf.......or most dont!
Valar-Wrath
04-08-2005, 00:38
Sorcs....unless you are extremely confident in playing one wiht crap gear it is probably the worst build to start with switching from SC to HC. You will pump energy and end up with no life and not enuff dex and poor block and she will die miserably somewhere.
Now if you would have said THAT, then yes, I agree.
Valar-Wrath & bipolar
Thank you both for fast and good replies :)
I have not been playing D2 in about 1½ year and while cleaning up the other day I stumbled upon the CD's. And.. umm.. I felt like playing it again.
So it would be on Normal and perhaps NM and Hell if I somehow manage to stay alive.
I will surely try this build :)
Rgs
Teren
Valar-Wrath & bipolar
Thank you both for fast and good replies :)
I have not been playing D2 in about 1½ year and while cleaning up the other day I stumbled upon the CD's. And.. umm.. I felt like playing it again.
So it would be on Normal and perhaps NM and Hell if I somehow manage to stay alive.
I will surely try this build :)
Rgs
Teren
Keep me updated on your progress :) Also, if on east and need a bit of help, my acct is *bp103
From what I've seen, it takes 1st time HCers about 4-5 deaths before they "get it" and can play comfortably without dying. I certainly saw my fair share of Deeds before I got somewhat adept at surviving. I may be too cautious now, in fact, but I haven't died with any character in ages ... with the exception of a lowbie in a chant game who got pk'ed.
Just don't get discouraged if you do die. It's a learning experience and each time you die makes you that much smarter, or something ;)
We all die*. Might as well get used to it, and expect it.
// * Except for Stinger that is. The man's a miracle, I tells ya.
Tool_Master
04-08-2005, 12:15
We all die*. Might as well get used to it, and expect it.
// * Except for Stinger that is. The man's a miracle, I tells ya.
He has "Uber-1337" skillz, not just "1337" or "uber" but a combination of both
If you like Skelly Necros and feel you play them well its a great build to start with as they can get buy with very poor gear. They can also MF all the lvl 85 areas like the Pits. They can cow for charms and jools and socket items and can solo most anywhere.
Key here is you need to build to live not build for power early. First place to die will be Diablo in Norm although he can be easy with Decrep Wand and some Bone Spear and alot of pots. Your Skellys wont be worth a crap though.
Level your skellys slowly. getting max numbers of them early is a bad move as you bypass some needed things like Bone Armor (1) point only, and then all in Wall and Prison (since Marrows bug is fixed)
I personally liek to get to say 5-6 Skellys and then start boosting my Wall so it makes my Spear and Armor stronger. Then I level my skellys slowly after that. By lvl 40ish is a good time to get close to max skellys.
Use a lvl 1 Amp and lvl 1 CE, you never really need more than this as you will find +skills to boost them eventually. Decrep IMO is a must in Hell but I would get it ASAP as it is very good along the way also, and once again 1 point only.
Use your Prison and Walls but be carefull.
Use the Spear to get a corpse or to help minions kill bosses.
1 point ins Revives.
Clay Golem 1 point
There have been many "how to's" about this build even more drawn out than this.
End Game Build:
VITA VITA VITA (you ahve no items to get max block)
Base Mana (use Saphires in helms for mana and every crappy charm you find)
Base Dex (until late game where you might add)
Str 30 early, probably no more than 60 late but maybe a tad more for gear.
Max Skelly
Max Mastery
Max Wall
Max Spear
1 Bone Armor
1 CE
1 Summon Rez
1 Revive
1 Clay
1 decrep
1 Lower rez (for partys mostly but cna be used to kill PIs as CE is 50% fire and LR boosts its damage if you cant remove the PI with Amp)
You fingure out the prereqs......
Spear lets you kill or help kill. Bad thing about skellys is they never attack what you want them to. If there are 10 targets and one is particularly nasty they will always not attack him. Spear allows you to attack him, or get a corpse faster to CE him with. At times you will think "why I get this?" but that 2-5% of the time when you use it you will know why!!!
What kills Necros is lack of Bone Armor or lack of use of it. That and "leading"....when solo, inch your way along, take 5 steps and stop and let skellys catch up.
Bone Armor = Life
If you ahve 1200 life and XXX Bone Armor Absorb than you basically have 1200+XXX = Life.
Option skill that works wonders
Confuse 1 point
Hey Stinger. Buddy Pal :) That I know will sooner or later come back to me. I would really love to see a guide like this...except for your uber trapsin :)
Hey Stinger. Buddy Pal :) That I know will sooner or later come back to me. I would really love to see a guide like this...except for your uber trapsin :)
There isnt anything about my Trappers that is uber really but they ended up with a number of charms and eventually things like Shakos as I found extras.
Season #1 Trapper
Smoke 900ish D Archon
P Diamond Tower/LR Wand
(2)+3 Trap Claw
+3 Trap Ammy with mana
Frostys
Gambled rare belt, it was a damn nice one to
Nats Boots
Mana/resist rings
Imbued +2 Circlet
Bunch of average charms, a few nice ones and no uber ones.
That is "basically from memeory" what she had when she was 92ish and from there I added a few things like an Anni and Shako and I think she eventually had 5 Trap charms either found of given to me.
Trap casting speed is nice but I never worried about it. I always ran Fade and always used the Frostys.
The skills were very close to Bipolars Fire/Light build but I pumped up the Master, I think whe had 15-18 hard points in her. Really, this was my first ever trapper and frankly if some "pro trappers" took a look at it they would probably crap!
Season #2
I went 100% Light with a high level Master again
Both builds had only enuff Dex/STR for gear. I added to Fade if needed but I never maxed it. Ran Dual Claw as soon as I could get my rez.
This time I made a Sorc second and got MFin earlier so really this sin was TONS stronger than the S1 was. I still used the SMoke Armor though! She had over 2k life with charms and hit around 7500 with Bo and Oak on many occasions. S1 Sin nevr had that good of charms or gear. S2 Sin should of hit 97+ but I got burnt out and invited to Guild Wars Alpha.
Season #1 Sin Beat Diablo, Ancients and Baal, and did God knows how many Baal runs, Walking using 1 claw/Pdiamond Tower/Stealth Breast Plate!!! For the Diablo and Ancient Kill I had a Barb with me using Butchers Pupil upped! It took a while to get those done but we did it.
If there is one thing anyone should know about me it is I dont give a ratz azz about uber gear. I find 1-3 items and I build to it and make due with the rest. The only characters i have EVER built with top gear were Sorcs for telein Baal or hardcore MF and they found thier stuff to get there. I have made countless imperfect builds that didint die!
I know you did not have Uber gear :) I was just wondering how you went about building them and stuff like the necro you posted. I knew you used smoke and the +3 claws. Just said uber because you are good with making them :D
Frankly, for your first-ever character, it's really alot to expect to make it hell viable. For one, the sorceress can be a really fast MF'er, even with no tweaking, and self-found gear; but, hell will definately be much more difficult than NM. personally, my computer seems to puke with alot of THINGS on the screen at once, so I will never do a skelemancer on this machine; it's just too darn laggy. I run from skelemancers in pub games 'cuz it lags me too much. If I were doing it, I'd focus less on skellies and more on revives.
Alot of builds can be handled in HC, but they take practice and skill to use. The problem with making a "HC MF char" is that when boss running, you run through or teleport into large groups, trying to get to the boss that you're running. In HC, this really can't be done. As soon as you lose patience, you risk death. So, as those above have been saying, you'll be wanting to do pits, cows, etc as opposed to bosses (although you could do both; the only thing you canNOT do is teleport or rush past the monsters, because you'll eventually get surrounded and die)
like the other guys said, though, when you're new to HC, you die alot. Expect pkers too. Here's a story to make you wary:
I made a sorc on ECHL, deciding to get into the HC arena. Some guy kept begging for money, saying "Hey any1 got money I need pots" and I said something kinda like "nobody cares". Well, I died about 10 minutes later from cold-enchanted monsters. Great, I thought. So I started over, and on a whim made a barb. I played him up to level 9, and as soon as I did, some guy hostiled me. It was a level 9 necromancer. I said "ha you must be joking" and he goes "yeah."
Well, less than a minute later, he finds me, casts amp damage, and his act 2 merc kills me in 1 hit. DOH. Of course, it was the same guy that I said "nobody cares" to like 35 minutes before. Quite the vindictive little fella.
Anyway, don't underestimate anyone, because there are plenty who specialize in PvP and PK, and can really knock your lights out :bonk:
Valar-Wrath
05-08-2005, 03:00
Alot of builds can be handled in HC, but they take practice and skill to use. The problem with making a "HC MF char" is that when boss running, you run through or teleport into large groups, trying to get to the boss that you're running. In HC, this really can't be done.
Uhm, what?
I'm pretty sure everyone here that is not totally new to HC and this game is capable of teleporting to bosses.
Teleporting isn't -that- hard.
Of course, sometimes you get unlucky, and that pack of Fanat, Mana Burn, Extra Strong, Fire Enchanted Dolls does get a swing in...
And if Skeles make your computer lag, I'd really not invest in Revives instead. Same lag, less use.
Fast Cast 63 or 105
Fast Hit Recovery, basically as much as you can get even a little is better than none. Best place to get this is a charm or two with life or mana then you can use your item slots for other things.
I forget FHR BPs but 12, 24? or 30? You dont need 100 or 75 or even 50.
With new sorcs and poor gear I tend to "walkaport" like a 50/50 thing as I always go base mana and usually dont have enuff mana to teleport straight thru anyway, and since the gear is poor it is a bit safer to "walkaport"!
If you are "smart" and "not greedy" and you can stick it out in NM until you get better gear for hell then a sorc can be nearly Uber with just that one lvl 29 Staff IMO. All the gear you "need" to make a very solid sorc is in NM drops. Thing is people seem to always push themselves to hell.
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