Acceleration Turkey, Ilkori, and Warrior of Light

[GargonCerlan]

All three of you seem to have been working on the same idea about a month or so ago with your threads regarding Frenzy ias with different WSM weapons and calculating frame attacks, proving that German calculator is close but not quite correct, etc.

I haven't seen any conclusions from those tests and tables as of yet and was wondering if you have abandoned it altogether? Or maybe forgot about them.

To bring my questions into this:

1) First off, I've never understood this. When people refer to left and right hand weapons in the barb and assassin forums, are you referring to the viewer's left and right, or the left and right of the character facing you?

2) Is there confirmation that the second slot weapon's base speed only affects frenzy, or is it the weapon's base speed + ias on weapon?

3) What effect, if any, does range have on frenzy? (as far as different ranges of the two weapons, not dual range 1 weapons vs. dual range 3
weapons)

4) How do SIAS and OIAS affect frenzy with regard to framerate? Does more of one type yield better framerate than the other or is the formula additive?

5) Has anyone determined whether sacrificing speed (5 fpa vs. 5.5 or 6 fpa) for more damage seems to kill faster or slower than higher speed with less damage?


I was unable to come to a consistant conclusion from reading through the frenzy threads I searched through, and hopefully you guys haven't abandoned us here on the forums, as it looks as if you were onto something!

Thanks for all your input.

GargonCerlan :drink: :buddies:

[oneBlast]

#1 - viewers left

[acceleration turkey]

All three of you seem to have been working on the same idea about a month or so ago with your threads regarding Frenzy ias with different WSM weapons and calculating frame attacks, proving that German calculator is close but not quite correct, etc.

I haven't seen any conclusions from those tests and tables as of yet and was wondering if you have abandoned it altogether? Or maybe forgot about them.

To bring my questions into this:

1) First off, I've never understood this. When people refer to left and right hand weapons in the barb and assassin forums, are you referring to the viewer's left and right, or the left and right of the character facing you?

2) Is there confirmation that the second slot weapon's base speed only affects frenzy, or is it the weapon's base speed + ias on weapon?

3) What effect, if any, does range have on frenzy? (as far as different ranges of the two weapons, not dual range 1 weapons vs. dual range 3
weapons)

4) How do SIAS and OIAS affect frenzy with regard to framerate? Does more of one type yield better framerate than the other or is the formula additive?

5) Has anyone determined whether sacrificing speed (5 fpa vs. 5.5 or 6 fpa) for more damage seems to kill faster or slower than higher speed with less damage?


I was unable to come to a consistant conclusion from reading through the frenzy threads I searched through, and hopefully you guys haven't abandoned us here on the forums, as it looks as if you were onto something!

Thanks for all your input.

GargonCerlan :drink: :buddies:

first, my name is acceleration turkey, and thats my promise.

here are my answers:

1. left weapon is your second weapon, the second one swung in a double swing attack. it is the one which visually appears in your left hand on your character, not necessarily in the inventory screen (sometimes this can be backwards).

2. i didnt do any "testing" but it seems that indeed the german calc is correct. only base weapon speed affects frenzy speed, so weapons [0] and below are useful, and above 0 are probably too slow. *hurries to get a vex rune before ladder reset to make death berserker axe, ugh*

3. it seems that the second weapon adopts the first weapon's range. i have a balrog oath and a rare falcata, range 3 and 1 respectively, and they both hit from far away. i can tell im hitting with the falcata because it has cold damage and mana leech, so i can see the fruits of a successful hit. i am unsure as to whether both weapons automatically adopt the longers range of the two weapons, or whether both adopt whatever range the right weapon is.

4. no idea what sias and oias are. if you mean on weapon as opposed to off weapon, its the same.

5. i think 5 frames is unreasonable unless your second weapon is an ataghan or phase blade. it is fairly hard to reach 5 frames and the only reason you should be seeking 5 frames as opposed to 5.5 is if you have dual crescent moons and lots of crushing blow (as in, 40% or more).

final thoughts:

it is important to note when plugging in values at the german speed calc site that the frenzy frames it spits out will be for a maxed out attack, not the starting attack. to find how fast you will swing without frenzy engaged (first swing), simply turn frenzy to 0.

[GargonCerlan]

2. i didnt do any "testing" but it seems that indeed the german calc is correct. only base weapon speed affects frenzy speed, so weapons [0] and below are useful, and above 0 are probably too slow. *hurries to get a vex rune before ladder reset to make death berserker axe, ugh*



Are you saying that if I equip two white berserker axes, I will have the exact same frenzy speed as two BOTD berserker axes? That the ias on either weapon does not matter at all? Now I am confused because that is not what I was getting from those posts at all...

[ilkori]

Ahoy. My testing dead-ended when I realised that the fastest framerate my computer was going to get was in the 12-15 range. But, I can summarize the dual-wield info I know.

proving that German calculator is close but not quite correct, etc.That was Warrior of Light. He(she?) wasn't perfectly sure of the testing methods, and was finding slightly different results from the German info. As I mentioned, I didn't get a chance to really do testing.

1) First off, I've never understood this. When people refer to left and right hand weapons in the barb and assassin forums, are you referring to the viewer's left and right, or the left and right of the character facing you?The assassin forum refers to the "right" hand as the inventory-right. Every once in a while someone refers to the character's right hand (which is always the Primary). I have started referring to only boot-side and glove-side weapon slots because of this confusion. Also, there is the Primary/Secondary issue which depends on which weapon is equiped first.

2) Is there confirmation that the second slot weapon's base speed only affects frenzy, or is it the weapon's base speed + ias on weapon?The secondary weapon is base speed only. I believe that the German calc reflects this as well (try varying the IAS on the secondary weapon).

3) What effect, if any, does range have on frenzy? (as far as different ranges of the two weapons, not dual range 1 weapons vs. dual range 3 weapons)I'm curious about this myself. I have been using a speed-bugged setup with a flail on the boot-side (Primary) and a War Hammer on the glove-side. I've been coming right up to monster using only range-1 for both.

Pure speculation here, but maybe both weapons adopt the range of the glove-side weapon.

4) How do SIAS and OIAS affect frenzy with regard to framerate? Does more of one type yield better framerate than the other or is the formula additive?The only types of SIAS (skill) are from Burst of Speed (Assassins only) and from Fanat (which can be gotten from a mercenary). After comments from Warrior of Light and some additional reading on my part, it was discovered that the IAS on Frenzy is the same as WIAS (weapon) and OIAS (other equipment). The IAS which goes through the diminishing returns formula is the sum of WIAS (primary only), OIAS, and Frenzy IAS.

5) Has anyone determined whether sacrificing speed (5 fpa vs. 5.5 or 6 fpa) for more damage seems to kill faster or slower than higher speed with less damage?This is basic math. Use a damage per time formula rather than a pure speed formula. With area of affect skills, you may as well do try it yourself since figuring the math requires a lot of assumptions (Stormlash for example).

Are you saying that if I equip two white berserker axes, I will have the exact same frenzy speed as two BOTD berserker axes?That is for secondary only. A setup with BotD zerker on one hand will have the same speed regardless of what the IAS is on the secondary weapon is. Just make sure you don't get the two confused. :thumbsup:

[acceleration turkey]

Are you saying that if I equip two white berserker axes, I will have the exact same frenzy speed as two BOTD berserker axes? That the ias on either weapon does not matter at all? Now I am confused because that is not what I was getting from those posts at all...


only on the second weapon. 2 botd is the same speed as botd in your right hand and white berserker in your left. the left hand is limited by its base speed.