Making a New sorc

[Invitus]

After deleting my level 88 sorc and deciding to remake one

SO here comes my choices:

Fireball Orb
My Previous sorc, actually did pretty ok in hell

Meteorb
In classic, would it work?

Blizz fireball
DUnno about this, never really majored blizz, because its static

CHain lightning Orb
Huh

CHain Lightning fireball
No comment

I want to do dual tree just to solo hell properly, so no blizzorbs or single treed dumps like those

[fredsta54]

After deleting my level 88 sorc and deciding to remake one

SO here comes my choices:

Fireball Orb
My Previous sorc, actually did pretty ok in hell

Meteorb
In classic, would it work?

Blizz fireball
DUnno about this, never really majored blizz, because its static

CHain lightning Orb
Huh

CHain Lightning fireball
No comment

I want to do dual tree just to solo hell properly, so no blizzorbs or single treed dumps like those

blizz-fball > all other dual element sorcs.

Meteorb is no good in classic.

chain lightning hybrids dont do so well in classic b/c you need lots of + skills to make an not fully synergized CL work.

CL/orb is viable, yes, its not that good though.


Blizz-fball is almost as strong as pure blizz sorc or pure fballer, even stronger at times, and it can kill almost everyone in hell.

There is an excellent guide stickied in the sorceress forum, but it is expansion. I tried it in classic and have tested many, many diffirent setups and the best gear setup is (imo)

shard
magefist
2X sojs
+ sorc prismatic ammy
Tarnhelm

This gear will never change. Being a hybrid you need lots of +skills to be as effective as a single element sorc.

Now for the rest of gear you have some options (shield, armour, belt, boots)

For a cheap setup i recomend goldskin, perfect ward, nightsmoke, and rare boots with fire resist, light resist and fhr. You already have max resists but the boots fire and lightning will be useful if you get lower resisted///convictioned in the chaos sanctuary


A rich setup, and better, is 24 fhr armour with 2 resists (doesnt matter which) above 25 and life if possible. For belt look for the same mods as your armour, only make sure the 2 resists are the resists your armour doesnt have. For shield get a 17/30/20 20 pris bone shield and socket it with pdiamond. Boots stay the same.


So basically your goals from equipment is +skills, 75% resist all in hell, 70 fcr, at least some block (46% from ward is fine) and the rest of the mods you have is just gravy. SUch as fhr.

With only 10 fhr, using the cheap setup, youll be fine. Everything will die before it gets close to you. The only monsters that remain will be dual immunes, which are not very common, and their just 1 monster.

Skill tree for blizzballer is

20 firebolt
20 fireball
1 fire mastery

1 frozen armour
20 blizz
20 glacial spike
1 cold mastery

1 static
1 teleport


done. This build is complete at lvl 78 with all skill pnt quests done. The rest of your points will either go to fire mastery, cold mastery, or a mix between the 2. I suggest getting them the same lvl. At lvl 85 my blizzballer had lvl 10 cold mastery and lvl 10 fire mastery after + skills.


just my $.02




Fred

[weep]

blizz-fball > all other dual element sorcs.

sorry... but that won't work at all.

with that setup your looking at about 1.5k blizz and like 1-1.3k fb.

the best sorc for you is the orb/ts sor especially since you have some experience with orb. As for the nuts and bolts... if you want my opinion, i'd go 20 orb/ 20 cm/ 8-13 ib and then concentrate on ts/lm after, this way you have a strong primary attack and a backup as opposed to two mediocre skills. The times when you run into a CI, just static it down and let TS finish it off. I think you know by now what gear to use so i'll keep it brief - high stats/mana/life/res i also love a DTM shield on pvm sorcs if it's available to you.

hope this helped, i know it helped kill a few minutes before i go out, good luck.

[fredsta54]

sorry... but that won't work at all.

with that setup your looking at about 1.5k blizz and like 1-1.3k fb.

the best sorc for you is the orb/ts sor especially since you have some experience with orb. As for the nuts and bolts... if you want my opinion, i'd go 20 orb/ 20 cm/ 8-13 ib and then concentrate on ts/lm after, this way you have a strong primary attack and a backup as opposed to two mediocre skills. The times when you run into a CI, just static it down and let TS finish it off. I think you know by now what gear to use so i'll keep it brief - high stats/mana/life/res i also love a DTM shield on pvm sorcs if it's available to you.

hope this helped, i know it helped kill a few minutes before i go out, good luck.


No. Your looking at 2k blizz w/ -55% resists and 2.5k fireball. Your actually telling me it wont work when i have a lvl 85 blizzballer that solos all of hell easily? Rofl. She can solo hell cs in about ~7 minutes, including fire//cold immune seal bosses, using the cheap setup. And thats killing most of the monsters, not just the seal bosses

She kills almost everyone with 1-2 casts of blizz. While you wait to use blizz you spam your powerful fireball.

Dont tell me something wont work when i know it does work.


2 mediocre skills? 2 powerful killing machines.







Fred

[Invitus]

Thanks for all of your replies, actually, blizzball, i find after editting a character and soloing hell, with the gears, it actually solos hell, but i get 5 for static

[ethos]

well -55% resists isnt gonna cut it is it. If you insist on using your awkward hybrid, i would imagine that lvl 10 CM (base) and the rest on glacial spike would have a lot more actual damage.

I have no clue what the actual figures are, but as an example:

Your skill choice:
25 blizz, 25 gspike and 6 CM = 2k blizz x 1.55 (assuming monsters have 0 CR)
= 3.1k actual damage

Better Choice:
25 blizz, 15 gspike and 15 CM = lets say 1.6k blizz x 2
=3.2k actual damage. So more damage right?

And for monsters that have more than 0 cold resist, the damage difference would become greater and greater. And, for dueling, the extra -45 CR makes a world of difference

[fredsta54]

well -55% resists isnt gonna cut it is it. If you insist on using your awkward hybrid, i would imagine that lvl 10 CM (base) and the rest on glacial spike would have a lot more actual damage.

I have no clue what the actual figures are, but as an example:

Your skill choice:
25 blizz, 25 gspike and 6 CM = 2k blizz x 1.55 (assuming monsters have 0 CR)
= 3.1k actual damage

Better Choice:
25 blizz, 15 gspike and 15 CM = lets say 1.6k blizz x 2
=3.2k actual damage. So more damage right?

And for monsters that have more than 0 cold resist, the damage difference would become greater and greater. And, for dueling, the extra -45 CR makes a world of difference

well the thing is.. 2k blizz DOES cut it. Im killing groups of fireimmunes in hell cs in 1 cast, they die after a hit or 2 of it.

And the reason for max glacial spike isnt just for the synergy, its a useful skill on its own. It freezes opponents which means you survive better.


and its not an akward hybrid. It is the most versatile sorceress avialable, in my opinion. You can check the guide in the sorceress forum. Its one of the only expansion guides that relates to classic.

The fact is that it kills extremely fast, doesnt die, and is a lot of fun. Your trying to tell me numbers and theorys but once you actually test the build then you can come back and talk. Glacial spike maxed is better than more into CM.

Your saying that 3.2k blizz > 3.1k blizz with a weaker glacial spike. Id rather be more versatile and have an excellent defense, freezing everyone who gets close, than do ~100 more damage in pvm.

remeber that this is Pvm.






Fred

[Invitus]

I am now thinking about FO FB
or
Hydra Orb?

[Classics]

I think the Blizzard/Fireballer sounds great. Cast blizz, casting delay, spam Fireballs and rinse repeat. I do, however, think your skill setup is a bit off. I also think Fireball/Orb works much better.

I don't think Hydra/Orb would work. You could give it a try and let us know though!

20 FireBolt
20 FireBall
15+ FireMastery
20 Frozen Orb
10 Ice Bolt
1-10 Cold Mastery
1 Teleport
1 Static
1 Lightning for Fire/Cold immunes
(1 Warmth for preference)

Stat setup would be the following:
Strength: Requirements for your heaviest piece of gear
Dexterity: 51 with gear for Spectral Shard
Vitality: As much as possible
Energy: As low as you can handle. Don't feel guilty for putting points here, some people can't handle Mana<250.

This way in the end with +3 skills, you can easily end up with 1k+ like, 3kish Fireball, and about 400 Orb. Seems like a build that can handle all situations. Never made one though.

[Invitus]

Yup, fireball orb it is! But thanks for your replies

[fredsta54]

fireball orb is alright, definately viable, blizzball is better tho, imo. Its more versatile, blizzard can hit enemies off the screen, and you have 3-4 good attacks (if you use meteor as synergy)

Read the blizzball guide in the sorc forum before you make up your mind completely.

I would just like to say, before someone argues with me about it, that i have tried fball orb, and blizzball, and blizzball does more damage, is safer, and is more versatile, but, u can make a fball orber if you want.




Fred

[Invitus]

FO can move away and hit more enemies, and what i don't like about Blizz is its static and won't move like a storm :(
but thanks alot fred, i might try it when i stop playing d2 and start playing it again
:)

[fredsta54]

what i don't like about Blizz is its static and won't move like a storm :(

The fact that it stays still is 2 your advantage. If you can place it correctly, the monsters will walk through it, resulting in just as many hits as orb against a large group, only 2k damage > ~350.




Fred

[ethos]

2k damage > ~350.
Misleading, yet again. You cant compare orb and blizz damage through their listed damage. Just like you dont say, meteor owns fireball cos it deals 2x more... A standing target takes about 20 ice shards from a well placed frozen orb. A blizzard will hit a standing target around three times. And orb has a slower cool down period. The merits of blizzard are that the more enemies, the more hits you will get. But a longer cool down period means you have to wait longer before you can cast fireball or teleport, so it leaves you more susceptible. Blizzard also has an additional two synergies, so higher damage is expected. But please dont post misleading figures, because im sure lots of forum goers would take it the wrong way.

[fredsta54]

Misleading, yet again. You cant compare orb and blizz damage through their listed damage. Just like you dont say, meteor owns fireball cos it deals 2x more... A standing target takes about 20 ice shards from a well placed frozen orb. A blizzard will hit a standing target around three times. And orb has a slower cool down period. The merits of blizzard are that the more enemies, the more hits you will get. But a longer cool down period means you have to wait longer before you can cast fireball or teleport, so it leaves you more susceptible. Blizzard also has an additional two synergies, so higher damage is expected. But please dont post misleading figures, because im sure lots of forum goers would take it the wrong way.

yeah i guess that individual quote was misleading. However against a group where orb and blizzard will get roughly the same amounts of hits in, you can see why i said that.

Orb> blizz vs small packs or indivual monsters. However, in the cool down time of blizzard you spam fballs, so you can c how the damage gets high.

The blizzballer isnt just a blizz sorc with a fball as an backup, or vice-versa, its a build that uses both skills at the same time for maximum damage, versatility, and killing everyone in the game.

If it is nessecary, static + teleknises can take down fi///ci monsters in hell cs... i have not tried this above p1 tho. My guess is that it wil either be the same, just slower, or they will regen faster than they are hurt.






Fred

[frozentouch]

how come you put 20 points into firebolt rather than 20 pts into meteor for classic? the original guide called for 20 points into meteor. is meteor different in classic than in xpac. i believe the author in the other blizzball guide, said that meteor adds the same synergies as firebolt but is much more useful in hell than firebolt, which is useless after normal. only after adding its synergies bonus. the only downside i can think of for having meteor instead of firebolt is the +3 skill points you save by not putting points into meteor. any information is greatly appreciated.

[Sluggy]

In classic, you don't have a holy freeze merc with you at all times to keep guys still while they get tagged with meteor. I have tried meteorb and I just end up doing orb/fireball anyway so its better to save the prerequiste points wasted getting to meteor and place them in cold mastery or static field where they will be put to better use.

[frozentouch]

ah i see, thank you for clearing that up. i also have another n00b question. should i invest any points into a cold armor ie: shiver or frost. like just 1 point into it. i heard it helps for teleporting. i will be playing Hardcore. so i was wondering is useful or is not needed?

[Immortality]

Since your playing hardcore, its wise to invest a point into shiver armor. It can really save your *** during hopeless situations. Such as: teleporting into a large pack of monsters and your getting your mana drained so you can't teleport out(happens all the time in chaos sanct, es can make you or break you)

Unless... your going to spend all your time pking... lol

[frozentouch]

i dont think i want to put a point into ES because my mana is going to be very low, almost base. ill probably put a point into shiver armor for the reason stated above.

[weep]

2 mediocre skills? 2 powerful killing machines.


i dont know you, and im not looking to start an arguement but i've seen my friend on his OLD orb/ts (without icebolt syn for orb) and he can clear solo cs a lot faster than 6 minutes.. and 1 into cold mastery is not going to cut it..

[fredsta54]

i dont know you, and im not looking to start an arguement but i've seen my friend on his OLD orb/ts (without icebolt syn for orb) and he can clear solo cs a lot faster than 6 minutes.. and 1 into cold mastery is not going to cut it..

it does cut it. Orb///ts is good, against cold immunes static + ts can take them out fairly quickly, unreliable though as it can hit light immunes. The whole point of blizzball is its versatility.

Im not looking to start an arguement either. I am just backing up a good build that everyone seems to flame cuz they havent made it. Having said that, a blizzball sorc is not a cs sorc. It is a sorc that is used to play everywhere in the game, chaos sanctuary is not the only place to play.




Fred

[skihard]

BlizzBall is a great build and can even work fairly well if you convert. the reason it works so well is because Blizzard has a bug that does almost double dmg on the first hit. Fred's build will solo hell without a problem

[WhiteLightning]

Skill tree for blizzballer is

20 firebolt
20 fireball
1 fire mastery

1 frozen armour
20 blizz
20 glacial spike
1 cold mastery

1 static
1 teleport

Fred

Sorry for digging up the old post, but this thread was linked to and I noticed something.

This skill allocation would result in a fireball with damage of 985-1118.

Why do this when going 16-20-5 with firebolt-fireball-fire mastery does 1021-1159?

To maximize the fireball damage after level 78 (without getting meteor), at the following character levels, your firebolt-fireball-fire mastery should be the following levels:

79: 16-20-6
80: 17-20-6
81: 17-20-7
82: 18-20-7
83: 18-20-8
84: 19-20-8
85: 19-20-9
86: 20-20-9

after this, put points into fire mastery.

[fredsta54]

Sorry for digging up the old post, but this thread was linked to and I noticed something.

This skill allocation would result in a fireball with damage of 985-1118.

Why do this when going 16-20-5 with firebolt-fireball-fire mastery does 1021-1159?

To maximize the fireball damage after level 78 (without getting meteor), at the following character levels, your firebolt-fireball-fire mastery should be the following levels:

79: 16-20-6
80: 17-20-6
81: 17-20-7
82: 18-20-7
83: 18-20-8
84: 19-20-8
85: 19-20-9
86: 20-20-9

after this, put points into fire mastery.


I dont know if your math is accurate, and i dont care, but on my old blizzballer i had 2.3k fball and 2.1k w/ -50% resists blizz using my setup








Fred

[WhiteLightning]

I dont know if your math is accurate, and i dont care, but on my old blizzballer i had 2.3k fball and 2.1k w/ -50% resists blizz using my setup








Fred


Its right - dont worry. I calculated it with zero +skills. With +5 or 6 to skills it would do around 2.3k max damage. I just thought that maybe some people, obviously not you, would want to maximize the effectiveness of their characters. Is the reason that you dont care because smoking marijuana lowers your ambition?

[fredsta54]

I just thought that maybe some people, obviously not you, would want to maximize the effectiveness of their characters. Is the reason that you dont care because smoking marijuana lowers your ambition?

Hmm, no i beleive the reason is b/c i was a slave to d2 since it came out, and now i just play for fun... getting technical is just too much work and im too lasy to care like that

whats with all the flaming? Its a friendly forum... if you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything at all





Fred