(PVP) Fire ES sorc vs Lightning ES sorc, anyone tried both?

[mcm]

Has anyone tried both of these? If so what did you find more flexible, more usable, and least easily negated.

[Gotcha]

Has anyone tried both of these? If so what did you find more flexible, more usable, and least easily negated.

I have sorta tried both, well I am still trying to make a better ES/FB sorcy yet Lightning is much easier to make yet they are more easily absorbed. To make a great ES/FB sorcy the pain is having to prebuff all your charms and items to really get a high ES which I think you will need since I have made 3 different ES/FB with only 1 in ES + items, etc. and with these chr's you are playing with your life/mana trying to tweek the numbers to much. I always end up with a little less life then mana for the simple reason of trying to tank a fully synergized light sorc and living after a high hit damage number. The low side or bad hit is much easier hehe.

The real problem with ES is dueling other sorc with high damage that cut through the mana real fast. I have not truely played a pure vita or max block sorcy since 08 so I may try one of them now that I have pulled my hair out trying to make a truely godly ES/FB and well sorta not making her work just right.

What would be great is if Resists came before ES and not after it. No matter what resists you have the mana goes first so you really need to get to that 95 ES number IMO which on a FB/ES sorcy is like impossible without an enormous pain in switching items and prebuffing just for the ES ball hehe.

Well off to think about which way I will go again on my 7th FB sorcy. Good Luck

[no2fakeshakes]

imo, es/lightning doesnt pack enoough damage

[Neuroff]

Fire is more easily absorbed.. with just hotspurs and nokozon your damage is already nothing.

[no2fakeshakes]

Fire is more easily absorbed.. with just hotspurs and nokozon your damage is already nothing.

and lightning also...just slap on a tgods, the ugly helm, wisps...

plus, nothing beats 1 hit koing ppl =O (well only for a non es lightning sorc)

[raffster]

imo, es/lightning doesnt pack enoough damage

What do you mean exactly by "enough damage"? The sorc I'm rebuilding will do ~30K Lightning damage and L40 ES at ~ L90.

[mcm]

30k lightning sounds nice and all, but its really an average of 15k. A 15k fireball is fairly standard for a fire/es build, so that's about on par with the damage of a fire/es sorc. But then the fire sorc can cast faster, and has better range. But the projectile is smaller. But fireball takes out minion stacks more effectively... Arr..
It seems these two builds might be quite evenly matched..

Also another thing... It seems to me that having a super high ES might not be such a good idea in all cases. If you can get max resists and decent PDR, and have max block, it would seem that 75% ES would suffice (max TK of course). If you then have 2k+ life and 2k+ mana to back up that 75% es, wouldn't that be more beneficial than 400 life and 4k mana with 95% ES?
If we assume one is being attacked by some elemental damage that one has 75% resists against, then a 95% es sorc w/ 4k mana and low life might be able to handle:
4k mana / 0.95 / 0.75 = 5614 dmg
400 life / 0.25 = 1600 dmg (assuming one has enough mdr to negate dmg getting past ES before it breaks)
This is a total of 7200 dmg
And a sorc with 2.2k life and 2.4k mana with 75% ES and 75% resists would be able to handle:
2.4k mana / 0.75 / 0.75 = 4266 dmg, with 1422 getting past removing 355 life
(2.2k life - 355) / 0.25 = 7380 (assuming no mdr)
This is a total of 11646 dmg

Obviously this ignores regeneration rate, so this is a worst case scenario for both options. But still, being able to handle 11646 pvp damage while tanking is a fair bit better than 7200.
Of course this is a comparison for an attack that is resistable, I wonder about an attack that is not at all (magic), or less resistable (physical)

But then again, having more life protects against the two things ES is useless for: poison and OW.

[no2fakeshakes]

What do you mean exactly by "enough damage"? The sorc I'm rebuilding will do ~30K Lightning damage and L40 ES at ~ L90.

30k lightning compared to 48k lightning...thats 9k more average damage

besides, i get up to 19k fireball on my es/fb sorc

[Choson]

To my hero mcm i tried both and you will be more impressed with a lite sorc 1 mana tele higher es possibilty for more damage whats not to like fire is ok but IMO Lite>Fire Ez

[Jerion]

Have to also remember than fbs outrange lightning, which could become an important tactical advantage.

[Choson]

Have to also remember than fbs outrange lightning, which could become an important tactical advantage.

Its not that easy to hit with a fireball from 2+ screens believe me

[Freezing Rain]

Unless you are using a third party program *gives everyone a dirty look*

[Neuroff]

Aiming isn't what's hard, hitting a moving target is.

[Choson]

Unless you are using a third party program *gives everyone a dirty look*

Press the "alt" button more ROFL.

[raffster]

Also another thing... It seems to me that having a super high ES might not be such a good idea in all cases. If you can get max resists and decent PDR, and have max block, it would seem that 75% ES would suffice (max TK of course). If you then have 2k+ life and 2k+ mana to back up that 75% es, wouldn't that be more beneficial than 400 life and 4k mana with 95% ES?
If we assume one is being attacked by some elemental damage that one has 75% resists against, then a 95% es sorc w/ 4k mana and low life might be able to handle:
4k mana / 0.95 / 0.75 = 5614 dmg
400 life / 0.25 = 1600 dmg (assuming one has enough mdr to negate dmg getting past ES before it breaks)
This is a total of 7200 dmg

And a sorc with 2.2k life and 2.4k mana with 75% ES and 75% resists would be able to handle:
2.4k mana / 0.75 / 0.75 = 4266 dmg, with 1422 getting past removing 355 life
(2.2k life - 355) / 0.25 = 7380 (assuming no mdr)
This is a total of 11646 dmg


Hi MCM, thanks for the info. I understood the first part how you got 7200 dmg but can you please elaborate further where you got 1422 and 355 from your second example? Math was never one of my favorite subjects.

[no2fakeshakes]

To my hero mcm i tried both and you will be more impressed with a lite sorc 1 mana tele higher es possibilty for more damage whats not to like fire is ok but IMO Lite>Fire Ez

a higher es is not always a good thing, and i really dobut any sorc would have mana problems when they have 2200+ mana with warmth.

Fire Sorc
Consistent dmg
Fcr is better
Better range

Lightning Sorc
bigger range of dmg
projectile travels faster (i think this is true but im not 100% sure)
more skills to utilize (nova, ts, lightning, cb)

i guess there will be more light sorc hate due to lightning trapsin hate, choice is yours

this is my playing style:
95% es = orb
70-80% es = fire
no es = lightning

[Choson]

a higher es is not always a good thing, and i really dobut any sorc would have mana problems when they have 2200+ mana with warmth.

Fire Sorc
Consistent dmg
Fcr is better
Better range

Lightning Sorc
bigger range of dmg
projectile travels faster (i think this is true but im not 100% sure)
more skills to utilize (nova, ts, lightning, cb)

i guess there will be more light sorc hate due to lightning trapsin hate, choice is yours

this is my playing style:
95% es = orb
70-80% es = fire
no es = lightning

If you ask me I think its Lite>Fire Fire is More Consistant but with one good lite you can 1 hit ko almost any non es sorc, and if you ask me es is not worth it unless your 95%

[no2fakeshakes]

If you ask me I think its Lite>Fire Fire is More Consistant but with one good lite you can 1 hit ko almost any non es sorc, and if you ask me es is not worth it unless your 95%

how is having a 30k lightning going to 1 hit ko people most of the time? and hitting 30k out of a maximum dmg of 30k is highly unlikely. the reason fireball sorcs use ES is because they can tank up to twice as much hits by giving up only 2k-3k dmg or so.

[Choson]

how is having a 30k lightning going to 1 hit ko people most of the time? and hitting 30k out of a maximum dmg of 30k is highly unlikely. the reason fireball sorcs use ES is because they can tank up to twice as much hits by giving up only 2k-3k dmg or so.
You can do over 40k lite with good enough gear and still have 200 fcr if u play west

[aZNx05J3]

I play a Light/ES but I seem to have more problems against Fireballers in general than Lightning.

Also, you'd need more FCR for Lightning to reach the last BP.

But the Pros of Lightning: 1 Pt Teleport, no need for prebuff to hit a decent ES, high Max, Chain Lightning for those annoying Wind Druids and Summoners, Charged Bolt for Zons.

The Cons are: Low Minimum, slower Casting than Fireball, and Lightning actually costs a bit to cast so if you're Mana gets drained just once you're basically dead cuz the other person would be spamming at you = /.

But I'd make Lightning just cuz I'm lazy...putting on a +9 ES Memory, ES Ormus or Enigma, +3 Light Amulet, +3 Light Circlet, 10 Light Skillers...is just annoying...

[aZNx05J3]

how is having a 30k lightning going to 1 hit ko people most of the time? and hitting 30k out of a maximum dmg of 30k is highly unlikely. the reason fireball sorcs use ES is because they can tank up to twice as much hits by giving up only 2k-3k dmg or so.
That means doing a lot of prebuffing which is annoying as ****...

24-16=8...not 2-3...

[no2fakeshakes]

You can do over 40k lite with good enough gear and still have 200 fcr if u play west

thats if you choose to use hacked items, i dont use them and i highly doubt that mcm would use them also.

[RetroStar]

I would still prefer Light sorcs over fire sorcs simply for the time saved switching out all the gears for a high ES for fire sorcs.

It gets annoying when you die..

[no2fakeshakes]

i only switching i ever done for my fire sorc was a es staff

[Davie.]

If he uses armageddon fletch like almost everyone who pvps with sorcs does then yea he uses hacked items but who cares.

[RetroStar]

If he uses armageddon fletch like almost everyone who pvps with sorcs does then yea he uses hacked items but who cares.

I think they only have that ammy on us east nl.

[no2fakeshakes]

If he uses armageddon fletch like almost everyone who pvps with sorcs does then yea he uses hacked items but who cares.

and mcm is on west

[RohanDemons]

And a sorc with 2.2k life and 2.4k mana with 75% ES and 75% resists would be able to handle:
2.4k mana / 0.75 / 0.75 = 4266 dmg, with 1422 getting past removing 355 life
(2.2k life - 355) / 0.25 = 7380 (assuming no mdr)
This is a total of 11646 dmg


How do you obtain 2.2k life and 2.4k mana? And 75 resists? I mean, that just sounds impossible for a sorc unless your sacraficing some fcr. I mean you have to waste so much just on strength to wear a spirit and COH, but maybe your using vamp? I would at least like the 113th frame fcr, or the one below 200, and still achieve 2.2k life and 2.4k mana. I would love to make a sorc like that, so what gear and what stats are you using to get these numbers?

[no2fakeshakes]

How do you obtain 2.2k life and 2.4k mana? And 75 resists? I mean, that just sounds impossible for a sorc unless your sacraficing some fcr. I mean you have to waste so much just on strength to wear a spirit and COH, but maybe your using vamp? I would at least like the 113th frame fcr, or the one below 200, and still achieve 2.2k life and 2.4k mana. I would love to make a sorc like that, so what gear and what stats are you using to get these numbers?

i believe he isnt wearing 10x fire gcs with life but more like 5 only. hes either using upgraded visceraunt or whitsans i believe

[raffster]

How do you obtain 2.2k life and 2.4k mana? And 75 resists? I mean, that just sounds impossible for a sorc unless your sacraficing some fcr. I mean you have to waste so much just on strength to wear a spirit and COH, but maybe your using vamp? I would at least like the 113th frame fcr, or the one below 200, and still achieve 2.2k life and 2.4k mana. I would love to make a sorc like that, so what gear and what stats are you using to get these numbers?

I've met a player with that kind of lite sorc. I was so impressed with his sorc I asked him right away if I could add him to my friend's list. His gear was nothing less than perfection personified. He had 10 x 35+ Life Lite Skillers. 10 x 19+life/16+mana scs. @L93 with BO his life was 2K and mana almost 3K. This guy's sorc was so freaking powerful every single duel game we went into he just pwned everybody, and everybody thought he was using potions, and I knew he wasn't.

[mcm]

I cant be bothered rambling out gear and whatnot, but this sorc im mucking around with on open has 10fire gcs, 20k fireball, 75% es (max tk), 1800 life, and 1900 mana, and max block w/ sanctuary -- all NL gear.

Swap spirit on and that becomes 21k fireball, 1830 life, and 2500 mana (using frostburns w/ spirit instead of mage fist w/ sanctuary).

That's also w/ a 342% Warmth.

Also I should point out that same sorc can jigger some gear (fort weapon, eth bug stone armour, shaeled storm shield), and have 16.5k defense, 75% block, and still do 14k fireball dmg @ 105fcr w/ 1960 life, 1702 mana, and 35% PDR. As a barb fan, I'll be the first to say that would give me a REAL hard time.

How much life/mana is a 42k lightning sorc able to get w/ a max block build?

[no2fakeshakes]

I cant be bothered rambling out gear and whatnot, but this sorc im mucking around with on open has 10fire gcs, 20k fireball, 75% es (max tk), 1800 life, and 1900 mana, and max block w/ sanctuary -- all NL gear.

Swap spirit on and that becomes 21k fireball, 1830 life, and 2500 mana (using frostburns w/ spirit instead of mage fist w/ sanctuary).

That's also w/ a 342% Warmth.

Also I should point out that same sorc can jigger some gear (fort weapon, eth bug stone armour, shaeled storm shield), and have 16.5k defense, 75% block, and still do 14k fireball dmg @ 105fcr w/ 1960 life, 1702 mana, and 35% PDR. As a barb fan, I'll be the first to say that would give me a REAL hard time.

How much life/mana is a 42k lightning sorc able to get w/ a max block
build?

i had around 2.8k life? if i remember correctly. well...i had a 3.3k life with no block so somewhere around there

[RohanDemons]

I am building a light sorc with ES, so should I just max telek, and not ES, and put half my points in vit, and half in energy? And get skillers with life, and life/mana sc's?

For gear I was thinking im not gonna reach the 200 fcr unless I use

Any -20 res Griffons. 25 FCR
Armor: COH or Vamp or enigma? I believe 30 FCR if i go with Vamp
Weapon: Hoto 40FCR
Shield: Spirit, but damn its so much str req.... :( 35 FCR
Amulet: Maras
Rings: SOJ's
Gloves: Magefists 20 FCR
Belt: Arach 20 FCR

That puts me at 140 FCR
The Last Lightning BP is 117, so I could switch out the Magefirsts for FrostBurns for some more mana. But are Vamp and Spirit what I should go for? I was thinking about upping the Vamp, but I am not sure what to socket it with.

I am afraid that after so many points are in strength, the points in vita will only give me 300 life, and thats 500 after bo or something. Do the skillers help that much?

Thanks

[no2fakeshakes]

I am building a light sorc with ES, so should I just max telek, and not ES, and put half my points in vit, and half in energy? And get skillers with life, and life/mana sc's?

For gear I was thinking im not gonna reach the 200 fcr unless I use

Any -20 res Griffons. 25 FCR
Armor: COH or Vamp or enigma? I believe 30 FCR if i go with Vamp
Weapon: Hoto 40FCR
Shield: Spirit, but damn its so much str req.... :( 35 FCR
Amulet: Maras
Rings: SOJ's
Gloves: Magefists 20 FCR
Belt: Arach 20 FCR

That puts me at 140 FCR
The Last Lightning BP is 117, so I could switch out the Magefirsts for FrostBurns for some more mana. But are Vamp and Spirit what I should go for? I was thinking about upping the Vamp, but I am not sure what to socket it with.

I am afraid that after so many points are in strength, the points in vita will only give me 300 life, and thats 500 after bo or something. Do the skillers help that much?

Thanks

i tried 200 fcr, and imo thats a lot better than 117 fcr. the only reason not to go 200 fcr is IF you do not have the items to reach it or you believe going block is the best option. btw, its viper, not vamp. you have been confusing me with vampire gaze helm lol.

[AzaZaz]

i tried 200 fcr, and imo thats a lot better than 117 fcr. the only reason not to go 200 fcr is IF you do not have the items to reach it or you believe going block is the best option. btw, its viper, not vamp. you have been confusing me with vampire gaze helm lol.

lol i was lost too "is vamp some kind of sc hacked armor?" :)


can somebody put a hardcore spin on this for me. I'm making a lightning sorc and i'm looking to dish out some big dmg. I'm pretty set on gear/stats etc, but i'm more confused on waht I should be doing with my ES. Can i get some suggestions from maybe a HC perspective on how I should approach ES and skill allocation with regards to this. Thanks

Cheers