what beats these aa characters [Archive] - Diablo 3 & Diablo 2 Forums

PDA

View Full Version : what beats these aa characters

disc

17-07-2005, 14:31

sunami

17-07-2005, 16:02

RetroStar

17-07-2005, 17:16

I second the BvC idea.

aZNx05J3

17-07-2005, 17:31

Bowzon with a lot of Psn and OW :clap:

disc

17-07-2005, 19:04

tried the amazon but minion stacking and tele makes it impossible, when he uses his pala he resurects his holy freeze merc and its no contest, besides his chicken hack throws him out of the game. think i will try a bvc..... thanks for the sugestion guys.

Speederländer

17-07-2005, 20:27

Ghost assassin with fools claw vs. the hammerdin works wonders, especially if you pound the pally with high level MB and have lightning sentry always out.

And good kicker should never lose to a wind druid.

Phyrexial

17-07-2005, 20:47

The ghost sin would work nicely, but if he wants to get a kill before chicken hack goes into effect he would probably be better off with the BvC.

Speederländer

17-07-2005, 21:57

The ghost sin would work nicely, but if he wants to get a kill before chicken hack goes into effect he would probably be better off with the BvC.

True, chicken makes it a problem to get the final kill. But making them leave is 95% of the battle. They still chicken if killed, so the real annoying thing for the pally or druid is having to rejoin all the time. A loss is a loss by any other name.

Phyrexial

17-07-2005, 22:11

True, chicken makes it a problem to get the final kill. But making them leave is 95% of the battle. They still chicken if killed, so the real annoying thing for the pally or druid is having to rejoin all the time. A loss is a loss by any other name.
True, for us civilized people. But in the world of pubby duelers that scream "PWNED JOO!" after they die, it's hard to make them accept loss in certain cases. I think the thread creator wants this annoying person to accept loss and be infuriated that he lost. When he chickens, everyone in the game may laugh at him and tell him he lost but in his head he didn't technically "die" which is all that matters to this moron. The idea is to make this guy lose, not just by our terms but in his too.

</psycho analysis>

In my head, if the other person AA's they've already lost. Cheating = loss in my book. But that means nothing to them.

RiBBiT

17-07-2005, 23:04

If he aa's in HvH just stand still and hammer, he will aa into your hammers and die.

Or you could always get a pnb necro with 1 point revive. Go revive like 8+ stacking minions and just teleport on his head and spirit. You will be immune to hammers and he will probobly die if you get him into fhr lock.

although nec vs. aa druid is tough, unless you know how to runwalk and teeth/spear him your best bet is a ghost sin; or a barb.

Ghost ww sins are probobly the best chars vs. aa druids, barbs 2nd IMO.

morotsjos

17-07-2005, 23:25

i know i should just leave the game.... but this guy is really anoying. hes got an aa tele hammerdin and an aa wind druid with pretty good fcr. i can take the druid no problem with a no teleport hammerdin as long as he plays reasonably agressively but most of the time he just gets the aa hammerdin which cancels each hammerdin out.
whats the one best character to duel both of these? (so i dont have to leave and re- enter with a different character)
this guy is a real idiot, i need my faith in this game to be restored.

this is nl europe.
What's his account? ^^

Unless he has a bunch of full rejuvs in belt a windy is the perfect char to deal with aa-hammerdins imo. Just get your 5 wolves+oak up and running (outside his minimap ofc). When you see him on your minimap, start teleporting while casting 1 tornado upwards after each tele. He'll soon teleport on top of you, then just spam away. He will be dead long before your wolves.

Bvc-barbs work too, but it can take MUCH longer time if the hammerdin is well-built (high def&life).

Ghost ww sins are probobly the best chars vs. aa druids, barbs 2nd IMO.
Actually I think barbs are better vs aa-druids. As soon as the druid teleports on top he will be dead in no-time. Barbs will kill much faster than wwsins, and it's even harder to screw up.

Speederländer

18-07-2005, 00:16

Actually I think barbs are better vs aa-druids. As soon as the druid teleports on top he will be dead in no-time. Barbs will kill much faster than wwsins, and it's even harder to screw up.

My experience in dueling a huge number of windies has been that good stun >> all druids. If the ghost is good (whether kick or ww) and uses traps and MB properly, the druid is literally killed by teleporting on top of you and into your trap field. A ghost merely takes a tad longer to kill than the barb and, if it's a kicker, they can keep the stun going, preventing teleport out by the druid, ignore all minions, and kill the druid directly, pausing perhaps a moment to kill the oak.

Speederländer

18-07-2005, 00:40

True, for us civilized people. But in the world of pubby duelers that scream "PWNED JOO!" after they die, it's hard to make them accept loss in certain cases. I think the thread creator wants this annoying person to accept loss and be infuriated that he lost. When he chickens, everyone in the game may laugh at him and tell him he lost but in his head he didn't technically "die" which is all that matters to this moron. The idea is to make this guy lose, not just by our terms but in his too.

</psycho analysis>

In my head, if the other person AA's they've already lost. Cheating = loss in my book. But that means nothing to them.

Yeah, but it's really only our own view that matters. Some twit will still say he "owned" someone else even if that twit is killed over and over. The reason is their logic is cracked. So, if I, over and over, force them to chicken the game, I'm content with the win. The key is, if you know you can take them despite the aa, hostile them instantly when they rejoin, and then get all over them the second they step out of town. They never duel anyone but you (because you're on 'em like a cheap coat) and they are rejoining so much their head spins. At that point I just squelch them and enjoy the sport.

Phyrexial

18-07-2005, 01:35

Yeah, but it's really only our own view that matters. Some twit will still say he "owned" someone else even if that twit is killed over and over. The reason is their logic is cracked. So, if I, over and over, force them to chicken the game, I'm content with the win. The key is, if you know you can take them despite the aa, hostile them instantly when they rejoin, and then get all over them the second they step out of town. They never duel anyone but you (because you're on 'em like a cheap coat) and they are rejoining so much their head spins. At that point I just squelch them and enjoy the sport.
I guess it depends on what the thread starter is content with. Just like some people don't think they've technically "lost" until they see their ear, the thread starter may not believe he's won until he sees his opponent's ear.

I would be content with the guy chickening a couple times then simply leaving the game before he gets a lucky win, frustrates them to no end. ;)

mhl12

18-07-2005, 05:50

pubby duels have basically gone down the tube with all the map hacks and auto aims hacks that people use. Duelers are even starting to break the most basic rules such as no potting and stuff.

also a warning to people: a new hack called "foresite" is very deadly in duels as well. It's kinda rare but I've seen my friend use it (i don't use it, besides I don't even play online anymore b/c of all those hacks). Basically it only works on cszons. It allows to to hit you with charged strike as long as you show up on their mini-map. Imo, it's far worse than AA.

Phyrexial

18-07-2005, 06:41

I'm pretty sure that CS zon hack thing is called Farcast, but I might be getting it confused with the one of the many other hacks out there. At least you can negate CS.

Speederländer

18-07-2005, 07:33

pubby duels have basically gone down the tube with all the map hacks and auto aims hacks that people use.
Well, people have used map hack since Diablo 2 almost first came out so I don't see any change there. I don't condone it, but it's no different now than 1, 2, 3, or more years ago. Auto-aim has existed for a long time, though not as long as maphack. AA is worse now because certain classes like blizz sorcs and hammer pallys can one-hit-kill high life characters.

Duelers are even starting to break the most basic rules such as no potting and stuff.
People have always potted in pubs. Nothing is different. In any event, I assume you mean life pots because mana pots are generally accepted now as necessary since several builds like windy druids, BvC barbs, tele bone necs, and the like pretty much require mana pots. You can't do anything about or really tell when people down mana anyway so there's no point in even spending time caring about it unless you a running a private dueling group that has enforced rules.

also a warning to people: a new hack called "foresite" is very deadly in duels as well. It's kinda rare but I've seen my friend use it (i don't use it, besides I don't even play online anymore b/c of all those hacks). Basically it only works on cszons. It allows to to hit you with charged strike as long as you show up on their mini-map. Imo, it's far worse than AA.
That does sound bad. Hope it doesn't spread.

Bigrob

18-07-2005, 09:13

stack on resist + absorb then u will counter those hacking nubs, cszon just cant beat u.

Generator Of Chaos

18-07-2005, 15:10

In any event, I assume you mean life pots because mana pots are generally accepted now as necessary since several builds like windy druids, BvC barbs, tele bone necs, and the like pretty much require mana pots.

No, they don't need. People who just spam attacks and teleport mindlessly need.
Unless you're playing ultra defensive, then it's kinda, "the price you pay"...

It's true, you can't detect it, but felling good about it cause you can't detect it it's like felling good about dupping as long as people don't know it...

disc

18-07-2005, 18:28

to be honest i pretty much only play mid lvl pvp not much high lvl characters, its just more fun but this guy joins in nm games or normal and hosts me (dont think he likes me) the bvc will come in handy but im going to start leaving the games and find new ones because i dont see the point in "dueling" an aa user, it wont give me enough satisfaction to see his ear drop . someone asked his acc name, its flamemaker for those interested in how aa works. if you see him you need to use words like -
noob
noobie
n4ap
lol crap items
and so on.. dont think he uses any other phrases unfortuantly. well at least bliz incorporated a squelch function (which is in danger of wearing out).

morotsjos

18-07-2005, 20:04

My experience in dueling a huge number of windies has been that good stun >> all druids. If the ghost is good (whether kick or ww) and uses traps and MB properly, the druid is literally killed by teleporting on top of you and into your trap field. A ghost merely takes a tad longer to kill than the barb and, if it's a kicker, they can keep the stun going, preventing teleport out by the druid, ignore all minions, and kill the druid directly, pausing perhaps a moment to kill the oak.
Yes, wwsins should do at least as good as barbs vs GOOD windies.

Barbs will still kill aa-windies faster. Cant get easier than holding down your right mouse button until they die =)

I'm not saying sins are worse, but it'll take longer time to kill the druid, and they have a slight chance to screw up with mb/traps/etc...

morotsjos

18-07-2005, 20:08

Speederländer

18-07-2005, 21:09

No, they don't need. People who just spam attacks and teleport mindlessly need.
Unless you're playing ultra defensive, then it's kinda, "the price you pay"...

It's true, you can't detect it, but felling good about it cause you can't detect it it's like felling good about dupping as long as people don't know it..

So then sorcs don't need warmth do they? I mean, as long as they don't teleport mindlessly and spam attacks, why get warmth?

And yes, these classes do need them. Unless they use an array of life/mana scs (which are very expensive and often insufficient) or hacked 70 mana scs (which are obviously an issue), there is not enough mana to chase down all of the fast teleporters out there. Further, since 99% of bnet uses mana pots, you end up RUNNING after that marrow synergized, teleporting bone nec. Which means, you die.

Don't compare using mana pots to duping. Unless you have a good argument as to how using a mana pot is the same as hacking and violating the Blizzard end user agreement, don't even go there.

In any event, teleport is a superior way to move around in a duel, matched only by charge. GOOD teleporters will tele continuously but never "mindlessly". As a result, mana has simply becomes one of those things people take for granted.

The only people with a problem with mana pots are a few forum people. Those who think mana pots are evil, are always free to form their own private dueling groups. They certainly won't "reform" public dueling.

It's true, you can't detect it, but felling good about it cause you can't detect it it's like felling good about dupping as long as people don't know it..
Feeling good about it? Where does anyone say they "feel good" about it? I guess people "feel good" about mana potting in the same way they "feel good" about casting battle orders from their CTA, in that it's what you do in the 1.10 public dueling environment in order to stay competitive.

dkay

19-07-2005, 03:09

dkay

19-07-2005, 03:11

"In any event, teleport is a superior way to move around in a duel, matched only by charge. GOOD teleporters will tele continuously but never "mindlessly". As a result, mana has simply becomes one of those things people take for granted."

i agree with this 100%.

Omikron8

19-07-2005, 05:39

Don't duel him, there problem solved

Don't waste your time with aa+chicken garbage

Generator Of Chaos

19-07-2005, 14:13

ive had a godly necro, bvc, ghost, and windy to play with.

the ghost and bvc had about 700-800 mana
windy and necro had over 1k mana.

from my experiece you dont need mana pots unless its a long duel. even the ghost and bvc had some mana problems in long duels, mainly because i would spam whirlwinds though ^^.

manapots nessesary? not really, but are they BM? i dont think so.

against AA'ers i dont want to say bvc or ghost is better because both are good, its personal preference. personally i wouldnt use either, id just use a minion stacked windy and spam nados north, or just use a hammerdin and stationary spam.

Speeder: read above.
As for "bm", since the term seems to somehow offend you in some way, I'll put it in another way:

"It's lame, weak, and unnecessary"

Btw, Warmth is a skill, wich like meditation, grants a certain class a "edge" on the whole mana issue over other classes.
Why? Because Sorc's and paladin's attacks are more mana consuming. Regardless you have to stand stand still (or run) while your mana regens, not the same thing as just pressing a button and waiting 2 seconds.

As for the whole "you can't chase them down yattayattayatta", have you ever thought, you don't necessarly have to chase them down from the blood more to the dark woods to duel?

According to your own logic, Sacadins, who use sacrifice as main attack, could pot all they want, since the attacks needs mana AND life, so they would take life for granted too...

If blizzard's intent was to have mana "be taken as granted" there wouldn't be a mana globe, or it just wouldn't go down.

In a nutshell: A violation of any kind of rulle set or anything alike? Nope, neither is nking, townguarding and the life potting.... Lame, weak, and a proof you can't duel without them, yes...
It's my opinion, you don't have to like it, let's leave it at this.

morotsjos

19-07-2005, 17:23

Speeder: read above.
As for "bm", since the term seems to somehow offend you in some way, I'll put it in another way:

"It's lame, weak, and unnecessary"

Btw, Warmth is a skill, wich like meditation, grants a certain class a "edge" on the whole mana issue over other classes.
Why? Because Sorc's and paladin's attacks are more mana consuming. Regardless you have to stand stand still (or run) while your mana regens, not the same thing as just pressing a button and waiting 2 seconds.

As for the whole "you can't chase them down yattayattayatta", have you ever thought, you don't necessarly have to chase them down from the blood more to the dark woods to duel?

According to your own logic, Sacadins, who use sacrifice as main attack, could pot all they want, since the attacks needs mana AND life, so they would take life for granted too...

If blizzard's intent was to have mana "be taken as granted" there wouldn't be a mana globe, or it just wouldn't go down.

In a nutshell: A violation of any kind of rulle set or anything alike? Nope, neither is nking, townguarding and the life potting.... Lame, weak, and a proof you can't duel without them, yes...
It's my opinion, you don't have to like it, let's leave it at this.
We've been over this in the barbforum already. Lets just say that if you have no problems beating manapotting casters without using manapots yourself you just haven't dueled any GOOD ones.

RetroStar

19-07-2005, 17:52

The CSzon hack is also known as Farcast. It is quite common in US East NL.

DarkMousy

19-07-2005, 18:52

My friend had a nice cszon and he always got accused of hacking... he was one of those skillful enough to farcast legit (yes it's possible to farcast legit, not quite sure on how to explain hte mechanism though =\\)

Speederländer

19-07-2005, 21:02

As for "bm", since the term seems to somehow offend you in some way...

No, it doesn't "offend" me at all. It's just innacurate and entirely a function of the individual who is using it. I.e., there is no universally accepted definition of what it is. Therefore, it serves no real purpose. You should say: "The things I PERSONALLY don't like are:" if you want any accuracy at all.

"I'll put it in another way: It's lame, weak, and unnecessary"

Who decides what is "lame"? You? Who elected you the "last word"? Some person says that exile is lame and I say who cares? Their opinion has no weight outside of the few people they hang out with so it's of no real concern to the rest of us.

What is "weak"? Define it please.

"Unnecessary" how? Who says? You mean unnecessary IN YOUR OPINION.

All three of these are totally arbitrary. They vary from person to person and group to group. Your opinions about what is "lame" carry no more weight than some joker telling me that venom is a BM skill against melee.

Btw, Warmth is a skill, which like meditation, grants a certain class a "edge" on the whole mana issue over other classes.
Your argument is about mana pots being BM. Since many people consider various skills to be BM, such as decrep or IM or smite or ww or recasting bone armor, etc. etc. then why is warmth ok? Who says? You? Your own attempt to say "this is BM but not that" is what traps you in this circular argument.

Why? Because Sorc's and paladin's attacks are more mana consuming.
More mana consuming than what? Than a warcry barb? Or how about a BvC barb chasing a top-notch bone necro doing defensive teleporting and letting loose with 800 PvP bone spirit and endless teeth fields? Or what about the ghost ww sin trying to kill the ES sorc? Try lecturing them about mana consumption...

Regardless you have to stand stand still (or run) while your mana regens, not the same thing as just pressing a button and waiting 2 seconds.
So what is the cuttoff time? 2 seconds of waiting is BM but, say, 6 seconds isn't? Again, you're just being arbitrary.

As for the whole "you can't chase them down yattayattayatta", have you ever thought, you don't necessarly have to chase them down from the blood more to the dark woods to duel?
You obviously don't duel the best teleporters much do you? Good teleporting is as much about DODGING and WEAVING and being hard to catch as it is about moving directly away. Did you duel ever in 1.09? Perhaps not. Because if you did, you would know that the BEST sorcs of 1.09 didn't enjoy sorc vs. sorc duels. Why? Because they would go on FOREVER. Many times in gimmeitam, in a team duel when everyone was dead on both teams but the two sorcs, they would just call a draw because no one wanted to stand around for 5 minutes. THIS is the primary way your argument falls apart. Any two good teleporters (not necessarily sorcs at all) will very likely have a LONG duel, far longer than their mana allows if they aren't a sorc with warmth. This is a consequence of 1.10 and the ubiquity of enigma. Enigma allows many exciting builds that never existed before. The flip-side of that is that these builds often require mana. More mana than can be gotten w/o employing array after array of mana charms. And you will never convince typical duelers to all suddenly migrate to an inventory of mana charms simply because a couple people in a forum somewhere decided they didn't like the way everyone else was doing things. This is a fact. Deal with it.

If blizzard's intent was to have mana "be taken as granted" there wouldn't be a mana globe, or it just wouldn't go down.
So what? This has to do with our discussion how? Blizzard MADE MANA POTS! Just like Blizzard made the mana globe. If you use a mana pot in PvM are you "taking mana for granted"? This makes no sense.

It's my opinion, you don't have to like it
You seem to want it both ways. At the end of your post, after referring to a rather large subset of people as lame or weak, you say it's just "your opinion". If you are going to run around calling people lame, you can't get out of the inevitable argument by a 4 word disclaimer, especially after your previous comments are contrary to your final dodge. Recall your comment:
"I'll put it in another way: It's lame, weak, and unnecessary"
Them's fightin' words. As long as you publicly declare other people to be something they disagree with, prepare to have to defend your comments.

Speederländer

19-07-2005, 21:03

We've been over this in the barbforum already. Lets just say that if you have no problems beating manapotting casters without using manapots yourself you just haven't dueled any GOOD ones.

Exactly. The same can be said for ghost ww-sins in most cases as well as wind druids, cry barbs, etc.

Bigrob

19-07-2005, 23:59

lol, all sorcs suck in .09, so as now.

only es sorcs take some times to pin down, but still not verstaile enough.

Speederländer

20-07-2005, 00:28

lol, all sorcs suck in .09, so as now.

only es sorcs take some times to pin down, but still not verstaile enough.

I disagree. In 1.09, all sorcs didn't suck. There were some very good sorcs indeed. Not a lot of them, but the potential to be good certainly existed. The problem with 1.10 is that organized dueling is dead and so the ability to consistently practice against very good opponents doesn't really exist.

Bigrob

20-07-2005, 00:33

I disagree. In 1.09, all sorcs didn't suck. There were some very good sorcs indeed. Not a lot of them, but the potential to be good certainly existed. The problem with 1.10 is that organized dueling is dead and so the ability to consistently practice against very good opponents doesn't really exist.

lol, everybody in .09 use white ring + white glove, how the sorcs gonna kill?

Unless u play in private leauge then that is a total different story.

Speederländer

20-07-2005, 00:43

lol, everybody in .09 use white ring + white glove, how the sorcs gonna kill?

Unless u play in private leauge then that is a total different story.

I'm not talking about the last disasterous 6 or 8 months or so of 1.09. I'm talking about the long period PRIOR to whites and hexes and the such. The white/hex period was only a fraction of 1.09 and 1.09 was a LONG patch. And since I was talking sorcs generally, it could apply to any good sorc (which were few but did exist), private or public.

Bigrob

20-07-2005, 00:53

IMO, 1.09 is mess up. 1.08 is a little better but still not cool, and it does not last long. And even ur not talking about white, absorb + max resist still beat all sorcs. (i can put on a freakin ga, dwarf star, tgod, ravenfrost; and no sorc will hurt me, tri-ele or not)

Zons dominate in .09, so as barbs.

1.10 can prove to be the most settled patche. IMO, sorcs are just not a vertaile class to play and i dont get why a lot of ppl in pubs play them, think they're owning.

Speederländer

20-07-2005, 00:57

IMO, 1.09 is mess up. 1.08 is a little better but still not cool, and it does not last long. And even ur not talking about white, absorb + max resist still beat all sorcs. (i can put on a freakin ga and no sorc will hurt, tri-ele or not)

I played the entire length of 1.09 (as well as long before that) and whites and hexes didn't come until the last quarter or fifth of the patch. 1.09 was only messed up during the period when hacked items were ported from open B-net games to closed B-net games. That's when everything fell apart and it didn't happen until later in the patch. Much of 1.09 was fun, relatively hack free dueling.

Speederländer

20-07-2005, 01:22

And even ur not talking about white, absorb + max resist still beat all sorcs. (i can put on a freakin ga, dwarf star, tgod, ravenfrost; and no sorc will hurt me, tri-ele or not)
No offense, but I assumed you were talking about DUELING. Making yourself immune isn't dueling. While you are certainly free to stack all the absorb you want and I won't get on your case about it, you can't do so and claim to be winning via skill. My assumption on a PvP forum is that it's the skill factor that people want to discuss and so they always CAN lose, even if doing so is difficult. There is no point discussing tactics or having creative builds if your opponent merely hits "god mode" against you via an equipment change and goes to town. Again, to each their own. You are welcome to absorb everyone you duel so that you are immune to all elemental attacks. It's too bad you can't be immune to physical attacks as well. I'm sure it would be much more fun to be 100% immune to all attacks. But the skill required to put on some absorb equipment is far far different than the skill required to win when both duelers can kill each other.

If you are NOT talking about being 100% immune (or so close to immune you might as well be 100%), then there are are (or were) some sorcs that could beat just about anyone.

And note: I have no problem with damage reduction achieved via some absorb. It happens. I also have no problem going 100% absorb vs. a person who was a jerk to you.

Finally, I agree that one-element builds are weaker and easily defeated via absorb. I played a ww/kicker precisely so I could have a mix of poison, physical, OW, and magic damage. My issue is, why over-absorb if you want to have a fun duel?

Zons dominate in .09, so as barbs.
Minus over-absorb, trappers killed both quite nicely, especially zons.

1.10 can prove to be the most settled patche. IMO, sorcs are just not a vertaile class to play and i dont get why a lot of ppl in pubs play them, think they're owning.
So is your definition of a "settled patch" to be one in which one or two classes dominate all and everyone else can be beaten via absorb or other equipment immunities? My definition of "settled" is hack free. Is 1.10 relatively hack free? Yes, mostly. But so was 1.09 for all but the end of its stretch.

Bigrob

20-07-2005, 01:27

sorc can still kill me, but just take a long time. :D

And im using cheap gears while ur using expensive gears, so why not?

I dont require overabsorb to win the duel but it's really fun though. I can stand there and typing "!LOL!" And some noobs wont even figure it out.

Of course i wont do this when dueling friends, but in pubs im absolutely gonna make all sorcs cry.

Sorcs are just hard to play, but im sure a good one is hard to beat as well.

Speederländer

20-07-2005, 01:27

And im using a cheap gear while ur using expensive gear, so why not?

Why not what? Be immune or something else?

Speederländer

20-07-2005, 01:31

I dont require overabsorb to win the duel but it's really fun though. I can stand there and typing "!LOL!" And some noobs wont even figure it out.

Unless the person you are dueling has been an a**, what's the point of over-absorbing? I guess for me, fun is dueling. Being immune isn't dueling.

Bigrob

20-07-2005, 01:35

Why not what? Be immune or something else?

what i mean is ur spend all those runes to make urself thinks is a "godly" sorc, while im using poor man setup and been a noob and still kill the sorc's "godly setup." That's just humiliating.

Of course, when it comes to manner, i wont make myself immune cuz it's no fun.

Speederländer

20-07-2005, 01:45

what i mean is ur spend all those runes to make urself thinks is a "godly" sorc, while im using poor man setup and been a noob and still kill the sorc's "godly setup." That's just humiliating.
So your barb wears nothing but poor man's equipment in ALL his duels? I find that hard to believe. In essesence, what you have just stated is this: Don't waste any time making any class other than the one, two, or three that can beat everyone all the time. Otherwise it's humilitating when you lose if you try to make a good dueler with any other class.

To me, I would rather duel a great sorc, both in equipment and skill and NOT be immune to her, rather than just duel barbs and hammer pallys all day long because they are easy to play and potentially kill everyone.

Of course, when it comes to manner, i wont make myself immune cuz it's no fun.
Since everyone has a different definition of "manner" it's hard to comment. If "mannered dueling" is simply allowing both sides to have a good time, then ok. Again though, very few people have this as their personal definition. But, that said, I'm not sure when YOU duel in this fashion, based on your comments so far.

no2fakeshakes

20-07-2005, 01:52

lets all calm down and make boner necros, wind druids, barbs, hammerdins and everything else that cant be absorbed

Bigrob

20-07-2005, 01:52

In general, when i duel in pubs, ill try to freak out everyone to leave the game so they wont keep yelling. (against a nice one then that's a different story) In private or dueling with friends, ill give my manner and my full strength against them, having a fun time and gg duel.

And yes, in .09, i used poor man setup (not having much only until all those dupes and hex comes up, since they're cheap to buy and sell. U can trade an unid ss for like 5 hexes or something) In .09, my barb only had like ga, lightsaber, and all those craps. (I didnt even have a wartrav) I just beat all sorcs by doing this, :D is my only way to win. (not much against another ww barb) I became rich when a friend gave me tons of runes for me to buy some mf gears to start mfing. (i believe 1 rune = 3 hexes back in .09)

Bigrob

20-07-2005, 01:55

lets all calm down and make boner necros, wind druids, barbs, hammerdins and everything else that cant be absorbed

yup. :thumbsup: Then ill have no question.

Speederländer

20-07-2005, 02:11

lets all calm down and make boner necros, wind druids, barbs, hammerdins and everything else that cant be absorbed

....and let's eliminate all of these worthless classes that add nothing to the fun of dueling at all.

Fire Sorcs
Cold sorcs (orb or blizz)
Light sorcs
ES sorcs
Light trappers
Fire trappers
Poison necs
Poison jav zons
Rabies druids
Fireclaws druids
FoH pallies
Light jav zons
All varieties of auradins (err...well, maybe they could go. :p )
And whoever I'm leaving out that can be 100% or very close to 100% nullified via an equipment change.

I certainly prefer a game with nothing but windies, ww barbs, hammer pallies and bone necs. :sleep:

To me, variety is critical to repeatably fun duels. Dueling the same few classes every single bloody time gets old really fast.

no2fakeshakes

20-07-2005, 02:13

heh im really bad at using sarcasm =(

im a light sorc fan and fire trapper fan lol

Speederländer

20-07-2005, 02:24

heh im really bad at using sarcasm =(

im a light sorc fan and fire trapper fan lol

Well, rob certainly seemed to like your idea. ;)

Omikron8

20-07-2005, 02:32

lol, all sorcs suck in .09, so as now.

only es sorcs take some times to pin down, but still not verstaile enough.

All sorcs are one trick ponies in 1.10. With enough resistance to get 90% against their element (after penalties, cold mastery, facets, blahblahblah) their damage is a tickle when coupled with the 1/6 penalty. They can teleport all they want but they won't do squat against an opponent with adequate elemental defenses.

sunami

20-07-2005, 03:03

Speederlander just an observation: your arguments are sharp and persuasive but I am reminded of Don Quichote fighting the wind mills. You are assuming that logical, deductive reasoning and eloquency reign on these boards however I must remind you that we are playing with 13-16 year olds who do not posses nor most of them will ever posses such skills. Or you are aware of it are just playing with your food. Either way thanks for the entetainment. :)

sunami

20-07-2005, 03:10

Bigrob

20-07-2005, 03:20

well, foher can be replace by v/t or mage hammerdin. (v/t is way better than pure foher)

rabie druid can be replaced by fury/rabie wolf

cs zon can be replaced by cs/plauge zon

fireclawer can be replaced by either flaming rabie druid or maul/claw bear

Now this is what i call "verstalie" builds. Sorcs, well not much of chance beside cold sorcs. (hard to stack on resist but nevertheless, not verstaile enough)

Someone should make a fb/orb sorc. :D

Speederländer

20-07-2005, 03:32

You are assuming that logical, deductive reasoning and eloquency reign on these boards

Or you are aware of it are just playing with your food.
:shhh:

Either way thanks for the entetainment. :)

I aim to please.

'22'Souljah

20-07-2005, 04:38

cs zon can be replaced by cs/plauge zon
if someone was using absorb vs your cs there's nothing stopping them from using antidotes vs your plague :D

is it me or is there more muthafu**** in 1.10?
everyone thinks they're so 'leet and pwnage' now
what happen to that old school dueling where people could just accept it when they died and no one tried to enfroce their ideas of unfair to a group of people who don't give a flying sh**
what changed the attitudes of d2 players from 1.09 to 1.10? :confused:

Sh4dovv

20-07-2005, 05:16

defensive play beats most aa opponents

Speederländer

20-07-2005, 06:00

if someone was using absorb vs your cs there's nothing stopping them from using antidotes vs your plague :D

is it me or is there more muthafu**** in 1.10?
everyone thinks they're so 'leet and pwnage' now
what happen to that old school dueling where people could just accept it when they died and no one tried to enfroce their ideas of unfair to a group of people who don't give a flying sh**
what changed the attitudes of d2 players from 1.09 to 1.10? :confused:

It's not like the old days here with Skoal and Maxus and Shadari and Val and the rest.

Speederländer

20-07-2005, 06:50

what changed the attitudes of d2 players from 1.09 to 1.10? :confused:

I think it comes down to the 8 months prior to 1.10 coming out. The hacks were SO bad (hexes, whites, even constrictor rings) that it was impossible to play. Therefore, the only people playing were people willing to use hexes and whites. Most of the good people quit during that period. We also saw the collapse of the big organized dueling field: Gimmeitam, Pvp West, PvP East, etc. Heck, I even threw away MY disks and moved on. I actually bought the game again when I heard that 1.10 was real and not some pipe-dream. There may have been a few private small groups that played without hacks in the hexed b-net world, but I don't think there were many. Clan Honor tried, but they had so many rules that it was just too much of a pain for most people. They buried themselves in red tape, as it were, with too many rules and over-the-top rules esentially banning all kinds of 1.10 builds (once rust strom actually hit and the patch came out) by banning teleport and the like. By the time they figured this out, it was too late and no one cared. The out-of-control-hacked-item episode permanently scared the whole player field on bnet. So much experience and skill was lost and most of the remaining people had no sense of what a GOOD duel actually was (or didn't care), having played through the pre-1.10 hex environment.

Thus, here we are.

Speederländer

20-07-2005, 09:48

defensive play beats most aa opponents

Actually it's the reverse for me. An aa bone nec, for example, won't get any easier as I run away. Rather, I want to get him locked up in MB and WoF (assassin obviously) as fast as humanly possible. I then want to get on top of him with minion stack. The key is to always keep them too stunned to tele free or keep up heavy spam of spear or spirits.

An aa druid is the easiest duel I have. Since they tele on top of you, they tele into a trap field. At that point, you can just kick or ww at your leisure, as long as you keep them stunned. So, I always stay in one place and just let them come to me.

Against an aa hammer pally, yes, I go defensive. Whirl away, keep sentry up, MB like mad. Also keep up SM to draw off the aim now and then.