Grief has become bm?

[Volvagia]

I duel with a ww barb, and decided to try out a Grief zerker on him since I've heard a lot of good things about it, and it's not too expensive to make. Rolled a pretty nice one (37/390), and I am enjoying it much more than I ever did my old ebotd. However, in half the pubby games I'm in whether I'm winning or losing, I'm being flamed, called bm, noob, etc for using Grief. I don't see one single stat on it that could be considered bm. Am I missing something or is it just typical pubby crying?

[Speederländer]

How ironic that this should be an issue after that last thread.

In answer: No. No item is "BM" and no skill is "BM". Period. To call someone "bad mannered" for using an item implies that there is some consensus on the requirements for being "BM" with respect to item useage. There is not. The only thing in the game that is "BM" (if anything at all), is being a jerk. Be friendly, tell him you are using that grief because that's your weapon, and ignore him. If he asks you nicely to unhostile, then do so. If he's a jerk about it, do as you will.

Most people will react negatively to NKing, life potting and trash talking. Then again, some people expect it. If you do any of the above three, expect to get punished. Are these "BM"? No, they really aren't. They are just the actions most likely to make your dueling experience a negative one, unless you have the capacity to beat back people teaming up on you to stop your annoying actions. My personal preference is to be friendly and not life pot. But someone else may have an entirely different approach. It's your call.

['22'Souljah]

yea charms are becoming bm also :lol:

[Phyrexial]

Typical pubby crying. Don't worry about it.

People in pubbies will complain about anything that beats them.

[Shaven Monkee]

Indeed......

[Arutha]

I believe the reason some people say it is BM is due to the psn dmg from the venom.

[Generator Of Chaos]

Well, after beeing asked to "stop teleing" with my Sorc Vs a necro, and that I was potting cause I wasn't taking dmg in an lld game Vs 3 noobs, I feel secure in not giving a damn about what people call "bm" or not.
Hell, I had people say they "owned" me when they didn't bring my life below half, and were killed multiple times..:\
It's the just the way pubbies are, they're like that drunk guy in the park across the street, he doesn't really know what he's saying, he just needs to say something.

[Speederländer]

I believe the reason some people say it is BM is due to the psn dmg from the venom.

The poison is minimal compared to the massive physical damage. That's the primary issue people have, especially on pallys, where the damage translates into crazy smite damage. But good barbs should be able to beat grief smiters anyway.

[jordy666]

whirlwind is SOOO bm :uhhuh:

:wink2:

-jordy :king:

[Omikron8]

The crappiest grief destroys the best botd in pvp (pvm is a different story) due to the fact that it essentially gives the weapon at least around 300-400 damage :)

[YellowDyeNo5]

The crappiest grief destroys the best botd in pvp (pvm is a different story) due to the fact that it essentially gives the weapon at least around 300-400 damage :)
I was under the impression that the extra damage from grief was added after the pvp penalty, giving insanely high pvp damage compared to other weapons.

[Herald of Doom]

I was under the impression that the extra damage from grief was added after the pvp penalty, giving insanely high pvp damage compared to other weapons.
Nope. It just adds straight dmg to both min and max, instead of the usual %. Grief is as much BM as using a 412% BotD (yeah, some pubby accused me of cheating for using that :uhhuh: )

HoD

[Bigrob]

lol, grief is bm?

then just be more bm and lifetap potting to show what the real "bm" is

ppl in pubs, let just say... BEYOND UR BELIEVE.

GG nubs.

[GriefBoyWonder]

because during your bowel movement i come out and you will see me.
therefore grief is bm.

during Bm u give birth to me..

[Mammel248]

I think nothing is BM, except drinking and stealing gold when you both agreed not to do so. Some barbs call me BM when I Iron Maiden them in the middle of a WW, but man, it's a skill, it's not a hack. So why not use it?

Well, I keep on using IM whatsoever.

[chubbypuppy]

This reminds me of my college Street Fighter days (yes I am that old). For you younglings this is the grand daddy of all the fighting games, but in glorious 2D. We would all bunch around the machine in the arcade and basically play king of the mountain, where the winner keeps taking on challengers.

Anyways, one of the things you can do in the game is throwing the oppoent. It's easy to do and hard to defend against, so it was often banned in many areas (and some people get physically beat up if someone does it). One guy (probably THE best player) who plays with us ignored our cries and kept throwing us, and eventually we had to learn to counter this. When we went to other arcades and someone clumsily tried to throw us, we'd counter and laugh in their face.

I guess what Im trying to say is that:

1) Immature people who lose will cry foul.
2) I don't duel because there's a lot of immature people out there.
3) Dueling is basically a money game. You have to have the best eq to do well.
4) Learn to deal with it.

Monsters are always nice and polite and ready to play with you without complaint :D

[Bigrob]

3) Dueling is basically a money game. You have to have the best eq to do well.

That's totally not true. If ur skill and have decent gear, u can still beat ppl with them. :)

Monster arent polite in 1.10, dude. (like a sudden pop out of black soul, that's just scared the hell out of me when i play hc)

[asdfghjk]

I was always under the impression that the + damage is not reduced by physical damage reduction, kind of like smiter damage (as someone mentioned.)

That would probably be the reason people call you a grief noob or bm. (I'm not really sure what bm is anyways)

[calibansfury]

I was always under the impression that the + damage is not reduced by physical damage reduction, kind of like smiter damage (as someone mentioned.)

That would probably be the reason people call you a grief noob or bm. (I'm not really sure what bm is anyways)


All weapons are bad mannered. It's not nice to hack/slash/puncture/maim/ bludgeon/eviscerate/disembowel/behead/crush/poison/burn/freeze/ electrocute/or otherwise harm other people. That's not good manners.

Now where is that barb skill for "negotiate".....?

Oh here it is.

Someone hand me an axe...

[Speederländer]

I was always under the impression that the + damage is not reduced by physical damage reduction, kind of like smiter damage (as someone mentioned.)

That's not the case. DR works just fine against grief.

[calibansfury]

I was always under the impression that the + damage is not reduced by physical damage reduction, kind of like smiter damage (as someone mentioned.)

That would probably be the reason people call you a grief noob or bm. (I'm not really sure what bm is anyways)


Smiter damage isn't physical damage? Pdr doesn't affect smite damage? That's news.

Anyone want a berber'd 30/27 COA? Apparently mine's useless...

[Speederländer]

Smiter damage isn't physical damage? Pdr doesn't affect smite damage? That's news.

It's incorrect news. Don't worry about it.

[Generator Of Chaos]

All weapons are bad mannered. It's not nice to hack/slash/puncture/maim/ bludgeon/eviscerate/disembowel/behead/crush/poison/burn/freeze/ electrocute/or otherwise harm other people. That's not good manners.

Now where is that barb skill for "negotiate".....?

Oh here it is.

Someone hand me an axe...

lmao, you sir, win greatly. :thumbs up:

[Druss the Legend]

my main complaint with grief is that it is too overpowered for the sheer cheapness to make it. I feel they should have made it something like Vex Lo Sur Ber Zod instead of all low (cept for Lo) runes considering what it does.
But I guess it gives the less rich people a chance against me :)

[Voice]

I just perfer not to duel against grief because I use mainly odd builds for pvp and grief basically takes odd gear setups out of the picture.

It basically takes an extra 70% of feasable odd weapons out of the picture thus making a smaller variance in builds.

Only reason i dont like it .... dont think its bm'ed ... but i perfer not to duel vs. it.

[Phyrexial]

my main complaint with grief is that it is too overpowered for the sheer cheapness to make it. I feel they should have made it something like Vex Lo Sur Ber Zod instead of all low (cept for Lo) runes considering what it does.
But I guess it gives the less rich people a chance against me :)
What's the difference? 5-6 more or less duped runes makes no difference to most of the richer players and once the runeword is actually made the price of it will be about the same as most other comparable runewords. It still forces everyone to conform to the dupe economy if they want to remain competitive, so I see no big deal. Now, if they actually gave legit players a chance by making it use only runes Vex and below... then I might be jumping for joy so people with heavy investments in dupes could get stomped by the legit players.

We can at least look forward to lower BotD prices.

[Speederländer]

Now, if they actually gave legit players a chance by making it use only runes Vex and below... then I might be jumping for joy so people with heavy investments in dupes could get stomped by the legit players.

What is legit anymore really? There are probably like 3 100% legit serious duelers on bnet (if that many). The problem is that 99.9999% of high runes are dupes and these duped runes ARE the economy (along with 3/20/20's, etc. nl) and are required to get the runewords necessary to duel. Even when people post "legit" runes, it's almost always a scam to jack up the price a little bit. And when these "legit" runes are bought, they are bought with....drumroll...duped runes, charms, etc. This was always the thing I found so funny about clan honor. They banned the known duped small charms (for example, also jewels, etc.), forcing everyone to get like one stat point off. These supposedly legit items were ironically FAR more expensive and were bought with...drumroll again...dupes. :rolleyes: I just got a kick out of barbs showing me their "legit" inventory full of hyper expensive scs, scs that they admitted (in most cases) to buying with 3/20/20's or runes. That was so weird with tha CH rules. Kinda like "don't ask don't tell" or something. It was also one of the reasons (along with unreasonably complicated rules and a few other things) that they faded away in 1.10.

['22'Souljah]

What is legit anymore really? There are probably like 3 100% legit serious duelers on bnet (if that many). The problem is that 99.9999% of high runes are dupes and these duped runes ARE the economy (along with 3/20/20's, etc. nl) and are required to get the runewords necessary to duel. Even when people post "legit" runes, it's almost always a scam to jack up the price a little bit. And when these "legit" runes are bought, they are bought with....drumroll...duped runes, charms, etc. This was always the thing I found so funny about clan honor. They banned the known duped small charms (for example, also jewels, etc.), forcing everyone to get like one stat point off. These supposedly legit items were ironically FAR more expensive and were bought with...drumroll again...dupes. :rolleyes: I just got a kick out of barbs showing me their "legit" inventory full of hyper expensive scs, scs that they admitted (in most cases) to buying with 3/20/20's or runes. That was so weird with tha CH rules. Kinda like "don't ask don't tell" or something. It was also one of the reasons (along with unreasonably complicated rules and a few other things) that they faded away in 1.10.
those legit 4 life foos are jokers
i remember one time on another forum they made a contest for a pure legit set up that doesn't involve dupes for more 'respect'
then i posted good lukc finding legit roons then they told me duped roons don't really matter it's the other items
this legit bs is about as stupid as the variation of bm

[Phyrexial]

I traded for a Jah rune, that was it. That is the only dupe ever in my possession. How do I know? Because any rune higher than Lem that I used/traded was self found or cubed. I've never dealt with 3/20/20s, 15/70s, 290's, or even traded for sojs. I've got 5-6 sojs in my possession and all are self found. So outside of that Jah rune, I was capable of saying I was 99% legit.

Until recently when I finally caved in and traded for two Lo runes last week. :(

However, if there was some legit means of finding high runes or simply competitive alternatives to the dupes I think you would see a much more reasonable amount of "legit" duelers. The "everyone does it" argument doesn't hold up. A dupe is a dupe, a dupe is cheating, there is no changing that. Sadly, it has become a necessity to win these days. Or at least to be able to compete in a reasonable amount of time. There are people that would gladly take a bit more time in order to be completely free of dupes, but right now "a bit more time" is around a million times more time spent to equal a dupe user. If your average player can get a HR in a week, I would gladly spend 2-3 weeks instead if I could get a legit HR.

[Xenon[XoA]]

Duping is cheating yes, but you can hardly say using potentially (and most likely) duped runes - ie, any rune you didnt find yourself - or gear is cheating. If this was true, Blizz surely wouldn't have included a Trade window.

I really couldn't care less if my gear is legit / duped or whatever. It doesn't invoke any more "status", and it's a waste of time from my standpoint trying to find all legit gear. I've had self-found runes poof as I was moving between games, so I don't see the whole gloriousness of being 100% legit.

Minus the rant, being "legit" is something only legit ppl can be proud of. Otherwise, it's a horrendous waste of time, and about as inefficient as trying to drain lake superior with a leaky pail.

[AzaZaz]

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Minus the rant, being "legit" is something only legit ppl can be proud of.

100% perfectly True. And thats how it should be. If you're dueling to make other people proud, to impress the little 12 year olds, to look good infront of your friends, then I don't think your priorities are straight. If you're not doing something for self-satisfaction then more often then not you shouldn't be doing it (at least with respect to diablo).

A legit dueler can be proud of being legit but it doesnt change everyone elses view. I think thats your point and thats true, but you're using it as an argument against fair play and it just doesn't hold up. If at the end of the day you can say "I compete with the best and I do it with class" and you're proud of that, then you congratulations. If at the end of the day you say "I dont care how I got here, I'll lie, cheat or steal" then you really need to step back and ask which one of these is more mature. and hell if maturity isn't an issue, and for some ppl here it's certainly not, then what the hell are you still doing reading this post you shoulda stopped 20 lines back to say "this nub is pwnt gg"

I think more importantly, for me is that while i compete, I do it with dignity, class and respect. To me that means to be legit. To others it may not, and thats perfectly fine. As long as I can look at myself and be happy then what i've done has been a success.

And if you want something to really make you feel good, if you're competing with the best, and you're doing it legit while others aren't, very simply, they need to cheat to get up to your level. If that isn't a satisfying thought, I dont know what is.

[Speederländer]

I traded for a Jah rune, that was it. That is the only dupe ever in my possession. How do I know? Because any rune higher than Lem that I used/traded was self found or cubed. I've never dealt with 3/20/20s, 15/70s, 290's, or even traded for sojs. I've got 5-6 sojs in my possession and all are self found. So outside of that Jah rune, I was capable of saying I was 99% legit.
Yeah, but a dupe is a dupe. Now, this is coming from someone who doesn't really care anymore. Once, long ago I felt that using dupes was "bad", but this it got to be pointless. Like plugging a crumbling dam with your finger. So if you used one dupe, you use dupes. What's the point of saying you are 99% dupe free? I'm not riding you on this because I know you are a good poster. But this legit thing and the BM deal have always been pet projects of mine here. If you used a duped Jah, that's it, game over. 99% dupe free, 90% dupe free, 57.34% dupe free, 1% dupe free. It's all the same. Who is to say what the "cut-off" is?

Until recently when I finally caved in and traded for two Lo runes last week. :(
It's Blizzard's fault for not taking steps to control the situation. As it stands, you need the runes to compete. You want to do well, you do what you need to do. Don't feel bad about it.

There are people that would gladly take a bit more time in order to be completely free of dupes, but right now "a bit more time" is around a million times more time spent to equal a dupe user.
Dude, everyone is a "dupe user". There is no point in singling that "type" of person out. It's the economy. It's like calling your girlfriend a "money user" for using cash to buy food. It's the economy. It's accepted. I don't say it's GOOD. But there's no point in sweating it.

As long as the items being duped can ACTUALLY EXIST in the game and as long as Blizz shows not the single least bit of desire to fix the problem, it's a matter of learning to overcome the "legit" fixation and come to terms with the facts on the ground. It's when you start getting open bnet items ported to closed (like the hexes) that everything falls apart and the game itself lurches down Pointless Street.

[Speederländer]

I think more importantly, for me is that while i compete, I do it with dignity, class and respect. To me that means to be legit. To others it may not, and thats perfectly fine. As long as I can look at myself and be happy then what i've done has been a success.

And if you want something to really make you feel good, if you're competing with the best, and you're doing it legit while others aren't, very simply, they need to cheat to get up to your level. If that isn't a satisfying thought, I dont know what is.

Using the economy to get items isn't "cheating". Trading using the accepted currency isn't cheating. It's merely a fact of life. I have no problem with people wanting to be "legit" and deciding to have nothing to do with the trading economy. It's your choice. But be careful with lines like this:
..if you're competing with the best, and you're doing it legit while others aren't, very simply, they need to cheat to get up to your level.Because you basically just called everyone here a cheater, minus maybe a person or two, for rolling with the economy. Please feel free to correct me if I am misreading your comment.

There isn't a legit BotD, enigma etc. on all of bnet. Every last one of them is made from duped runes. There is NO WAY to know if any given rune is legit or not unless YOU found it. The economy is what it is. If you want to blame someone, blame Blizzard. But the average person playing the game isn't going to do backflips to find the sole "legit" tradder left on bnet whom they can trust not to have ever used the economy or tradded using a high rune.

[Xenon[XoA]]

but you're using it as an argument against fair play and it just doesn't hold up.
And that would be because I'm not using it as an argument against fair play? Oh woops, that almost made sense, it can't be true. I'm saying acting elite because of your playing style - only using what you find for example - is moronic.

"I compete with the best and I do it with class" and you're proud of that, then you congratulations.
Yeah. Kudos. But class and being an elitist "legit" player are entirely different. being legit, is just another approach to the game, and I have no problem with that, as long as those players don't try and go all Latter-day-saint on me.

If at the end of the day you say "I dont care how I got here, I'll lie, cheat or steal" then you really need to step back and ask which one of these is more mature. and hell if maturity isn't an issue, and for some ppl here it's certainly not, then what the hell are you still doing reading this post you shoulda stopped 20 lines back to say "this nub is pwnt gg"
Soooo, If - taken in context with the rest of this - I'm not using 100% non-traded-for gear, then I'm some craxXor thief with his pants on fire?
And I might very well have said it, and just not posted it ^^.

[AzaZaz]

Using the economy to get items isn't "cheating". Trading using the accepted currency isn't cheating. It's merely a fact of life. I have no problem with people wanting to be "legit" and deciding to have nothing to do with the trading economy. It's your choice. But be careful with lines like this:
Because you basically just called everyone here a cheater, minus maybe a person or two, for rolling with the economy. Please feel free to correct me if I am misreading your comment.


You know what, i dont totally disagree with you. I once was 100% against dupes but its kinda part of the game now and you have to accept it, dont necessarily have to embrace it tho.

I did kinda choose the wrong time to make my argument tho, i'm talking about legit as a whole more then specifically referring to rune duping, which is what the topic is so thats why mine is kinda out of place. Like waht you say about using the economy is true, but your economy is different from my economy. I'm hardcore ladder so vast duped runes and bugged items are not nearly as common as say they would be on SC NL. So it's very understandable to me the point that you and many others are making and i dont totally disagree, my situation is a little different however so thats more of what its based on.

Yeah. Kudos. But class and being an elitist "legit" player are entirely different. being legit, is just another approach to the game, and I have no problem with that, as long as those players don't try and go all Latter-day-saint on me.


But you're classifying elitist as legit players. I think you're generalizing it too much. I would say that an elitist would be the person who would do anything to be the best, ie. dupe or what not (not accusing anyone of duping. I know duping and using dupes are 2 seperate things completely).

And you know what, this isnt the first time i've heard the "holier-than-thou" argument against people who are pro-legit. To an extent you're probably right. But I might be so bold to say that they're right as well for having the attitude. If mother Teresa (omg did i spell it right?) turned around and said "i'm a better person than you," i might say, gee weez i dont like that you said it but it's probably true.

The people getting offended by the "Latter-day-saint" attitudes i find are most often the people who tried it, and just couldn't hold out. Theres no reason to be angry with them because they think they're better. In real life they may not be, they may be a terrible person and you may be a great person, so what if you use a few dupes in a game. But in the Diablo World I'd say yeah, they are a better person, don't hold it against them, and don't get mad at them for knowing it. But also don't take it personal.

I'm by no means a 100% die hard legit player. I stay away from hacks and I try my best not to exploit bugs. However I need certain items to compete, and I know i'll never find a jah. So if by chance that my jah on hardcore ladder is duped, so be it. The means I paid for it were certainly legit. Everything that I spent on the jah was more or less found by me, so the way I acquired said Jah was legit, and thats good enough for me. Is that good enough for everyone? Probably not. I'm sure theres some people out there who would say "pffft i'd never use a dupe regardless im better then you." To them I say, "you know what, you're probably right."

[Phyrexial]

My original issue with Druss's statement was the fact that what he is proposing (higher rune requirement) would just be aiding the current problem which has resulted in the current economy and would be hurting players that actually are playing the textbook definition of legit according to Blizzard. One could make the argument that by using dupes you are helping to maintain the current economy which is based on a duped (read: illegal) currency. Granted it is so out of hand at this point no act of a single player will stop it. Since Blizzard clearly seems to make no effort whatsoever to stop it I can see why it has proliferated the way it has. If people want to use dupes of items that can drop, so be it.

As for being "legit" and his comment about critics of legit players I agree with AzaZaz. I personally try to be legit as possible while still being competitive and as of late something has been making this harder and harder. That being increasingly more frequent run ins with AA users. This is what prompted me to delve into the dupe economy that I've strived so long to stay out of, to combat AA'ers. To remain competitive. Do I have a bit of a "holier-than-thou" nature about me? Yeah, a little. Do I think I'm a better person in the D2 world than anyone that uses AA? Yeah. I don't think I'm wrong. I'd like to say I've become alot more tolerant, since in the early days of the duping craze I looked down on anyone with an Enigma period. Now it's just the AA'ers/Farcast/game bending hacks that piss me off.

I think what bothers me is the people that embrace the duped currency rather than tolerate it. I tolerate it because I have to, I don't sing it's praises. I'm not accusing anyone here of doing that, just saying. I've got people talking down to me because I don't use AA, if that helps to explain my take on things a bit. I had some guy reason it out for me today. He said the hack he got is free for anyone to use, so nobody should complain about it's use. If you think it's broken, he said you should go get it to play with the big boys. I've heard many similar arguments for duped items.

[Speederländer]

I think what bothers me is the people that embrace the duped currency rather than tolerate it. I tolerate it because I have to, I don't sing it's praises. I'm not accusing anyone here of doing that, just saying. I've got people talking down to me because I don't use AA, if that helps to explain my take on things a bit. I had some guy reason it out for me today. He said the hack he got is free for anyone to use, so nobody should complain about it's use. If you think it's broken, he said you should go get it to play with the big boys. I've heard many similar arguments for duped items.

I don't "embrace" the economy and use of dupes. HOWEVER, there is something to be said for a single currency that everyone understands. Pure barter economies, to be blunt, suck. You never have exactly what the other guy needs and the only people who can get trading done reasonably and well are the obsessive gamers with 18 zillions hours to spend on it. On ladder, for example, the currency is/was IST runes. It was simple. It was easy. Everyone pretty much knew what things cost. There is a LOT to be said for that. Blizzard never made an effort to standardize the Diablo economy. As a result, it sort of self-standardized. When there is no natural common currency, nature will provide, so-to-speak. In this case, nature was a bunch of low-life dupers acting like printing presses. Again, I don't condone duping. I wish Blizz could kill it all. BUT, I don't deny how very very USEFUL a common currency is. So, is duping bad? Yes. Is a stable common currency good? Yes. The funny thing is, duping brings DOWN the price of the uber items, making the high end game actually LESS about wealth since more people have access. Such is the irony of life.

When the expansion was new and the first windforces hit ebay, they went for hundreds of dollars. I remember reading a review of Diablo in some financial mag where they were freaking out that some on-line item sold for like a thousand bucks (probably to some rich techie). Duping, for all its evils, tended to level the playing field.

Look at Clan Honor. Their policy against dupes meant that only the wealthy could REALLY compete (at least with melee). BUT, they didn't go so far as to ban duped runes. It just made me chuckle. They were able to get the best of both worlds. The rich duelers got to use their precious high-level duped rune words and still had an inventory of nearly perfect "legit" charms and such (mostly bought with dupes), while the less wealthy couldn't afford more than a couple "one-off" 3/19/20's (or whatever).

It is for these reasons (and a couple of others) that I just don't care if in-game droppable items are duped. I don't LIKE it, but neither do I actively DISLIKE it.

EDIT ADD: I don't approve or condone of any hacked items (i.e. items that could never drop) or of programs that provide unfair advantage (such as AA). But that is a different discussion from dupes, IMO, as much as some people may want to link the two.

I've got people talking down to me because I don't use AA, if that helps to explain my take on things a bit. I had some guy reason it out for me today. He said the hack he got is free for anyone to use, so nobody should complain about it's use. If you think it's broken, he said you should go get it to play with the big boys. I've heard many similar arguments for duped items.
But we both know that using AA and trading a ladder IST for 3 UMs are two very different things. That IST is almost certainly duped. But it just ain't even remotely the same thing as using aim. Aim is allowing another program, essentially, fight for you. That is a totally different ballgame. It's like comparing jaywalking (to avoid walking an extra city block) to armed robbery. Are both TECHNICALLY crimes? Yeah, sure. But are both REALLY crimes? In my opinion, only the armed robbery is the real crime.

[Xenon[XoA]]

But you're classifying elitist as legit players. I think you're generalizing it too much. I would say that an elitist would be the person who would do anything to be the best, ie. dupe or what not (not accusing anyone of duping. I know duping and using dupes are 2 seperate things completely).

No, once again, I'm not. Elitist is a mindset, and in this context, a modifier on the "Legit Player". er... examples!

a_ Elitist Jack'o'lantern. A pumpkin who thinks its better b/c it has a glowing face carved in it.

b_ Elitist Mouse. A mouse that thinks its better b/c it uses a laser instead of a mouseball.

c_ Elitist Legit4LifePlayer. A player that thinks its better b/c they use only gear they found, or legit gear they traded dupes for.

No matter, I wasn't classifying EVERY legit player as elitist, I was saying that Legit's cool by me. Just don't go pimping it like you're better than everyone else.

And you know what, this isnt the first time i've heard the "holier-than-thou" argument against people who are pro-legit. To an extent you're probably right. But I might be so bold to say that they're right as well for having the attitude. If mother Teresa (omg did i spell it right?) turned around and said "i'm a better person than you," i might say, gee weez i dont like that you said it but it's probably true.

Classic example of breezing by everything sensical I said, to the closer.
Nowhere did I mention "I r leeter than thou coz I yoose Doopz?"
Let me re-iterate. Legits fine. But don't try and convert me - for example -

a_ show up at my door while I'm eating dinner, and try and sell me on why I need Jesus in my life

b_ wake me up at 8am during a holiday, and try and sell me on why I need Jesus in my life.

c_ use MH to scan my gear for dupes, and try and sell me on why I need to stay legit.

d_ generally act Superior because they lose duels, and therefore I must be using non-legit gear.


The people getting offended by the "Latter-day-saint" attitudes i find are most often the people who tried it, and just couldn't hold out. Theres no reason to be angry with them because they think they're better. In real life they may not be, they may be a terrible person and you may be a great person, so what if you use a few dupes in a game. But in the Diablo World I'd say yeah, they are a better person, don't hold it against them, and don't get mad at them for knowing it. But also don't take it personal.

Idc what ppl think of me ingame. Or here really, but I like debating stuff. I'm relatively legit - I don't use cracks, scripts, or what have you - but I won't be restrained by this blackhole of inefficiency known as "legit gear".

[AzaZaz]

']
Classic example of breezing by everything sensical I said, to the closer.
Nowhere did I mention "I r leeter than thou coz I yoose Doopz?"
Let me re-iterate. Legits fine. But don't try and convert me - for example -


I don't see how from what you quoted of my argument you got that i was accusing you of the "I r leeter than thou coz I yoose Doopz." The holier-than-thou argument is what I described yours as, saying that the people who are pro legit have a "holier than thou" argument, not the ppl using dupes. Just to clarify.

I also don't see how I was trying to convert you. Like Phyrexial said, it's one thing to accept it, its another to embrace it. The holier-than-thou people, or the Latter-day-saints would do neither, they'd try to avoid it at all cost. This is not where I stand. Like Phy, I have come to accept it as part of the economy, but by no means would I embrace it, promote it or advise it. I may argue for avoiding using them if possible but I know when it comes to PVP its not always possible but that doesn't mean you need to go out and get the cheapest quickest dupes for all your chars does it?

In the end I really don't care by now who uses dupes, I'm not gonna reem them out. If I see someone fully against them I'll respect them more for it, doesn't mean I'll have no respect for those who do use them. My argument is not trying to convince you not to use dupes, it's just to lighten up on the people who think they're better then the rest for not usign them because they're probably right, when it comes to diablo they are better people.

[Dad Daniel]

[QUOTE=Speederländer]
But we both know that using AA and trading a ladder IST for 3 UMs are two very different things. That IST is almost certainly duped.
[QUOTE]

:lol:
It sounds to me like "If you buy a ladder FAL for 2 SHAELS, it is certainly duped" !

Man, if there is a person duping such lame rune as Ist, for sure he must be the black sheep of the entire dupehack-family! What a miserable person he should be!
:D

[Arutha]

Man, if there is a person duping such lame rune as Ist, for sure he must be the black sheep of the entire dupehack-family! What a miserable person he should be!
:D

I have had plenty of ists go poof on me this season, think it is up to 8 i have lost.

[Dad Daniel]

I have had plenty of ists go poof on me this season, think it is up to 8 i have lost.

:cheesy: :bonk:

[Speederländer]

:lol:
It sounds to me like "If you buy a ladder FAL for 2 SHAELS, it is certainly duped" !

Man, if there is a person duping such lame rune as Ist, for sure he must be the black sheep of the entire dupehack-family! What a miserable person he should be!
:D

On the USWest ladder, ISTs are the currency. They are sold a 100 at a pop on ebay and through various websites. They are/were the primary duped item (unless things have changed recently). People paid up to 30+ IST for good life skill GCs, for example. No different than 3/20/20's on nL

[AzaZaz]

On the USWest ladder, ISTs are the currency. They are sold a 100 at a pop on ebay and through various websites. They are/were the primary duped item (unless things have changed recently). People paid up to 30+ IST for good life skill GCs, for example. No different than 3/20/20's on nL


Or Soj's back in the day.

Ists are also the currency on US east HC ladder, and I would assume mass duped.

[Xenon[XoA]]

I don't see how from what you quoted of my argument you got that i was accusing you of the "I r leeter than thou coz I yoose Doopz." The holier-than-thou argument is what I described yours as, saying that the people who are pro legit have a "holier than thou" argument, not the ppl using dupes. Just to clarify.

I also don't see how I was trying to convert you. Like Phyrexial said, it's one thing to accept it, its another to embrace it. The holier-than-thou people, or the Latter-day-saints would do neither, they'd try to avoid it at all cost. This is not where I stand. Like Phy, I have come to accept it as part of the economy, but by no means would I embrace it, promote it or advise it. I may argue for avoiding using them if possible but I know when it comes to PVP its not always possible but that doesn't mean you need to go out and get the cheapest quickest dupes for all your chars does it?

In the end I really don't care by now who uses dupes, I'm not gonna reem them out. If I see someone fully against them I'll respect them more for it, doesn't mean I'll have no respect for those who do use them. My argument is not trying to convince you not to use dupes, it's just to lighten up on the people who think they're better then the rest for not usign them because they're probably right, when it comes to diablo they are better people.
Eh, I'm really confused now. Lets just drop it. 1.11 is announced!

[calibansfury]

']Eh, I'm really confused now. Lets just drop it. 1.11 is announced!


Announced as coming soon. Arrival date: August of 2000never. Or maybe a good year. Then, maybe it's this Monday. I'm just being randomly pessimistic.

I know I didnt like not being able to play when the ladder reset (yes, a touch OT), and thought it was hilarious the hour after it reset how many level 90s there were on bnet. Good stuff, good stuff. Hopefully the patch will be soon, be awesome, and give more power to poor, helpless BvC barbs like mine....beast, grief, doom, massive life and the ability eat smiters and crap zealers just isn't enough. The good looks on top of it all just mocks our power....

[Phyrexial]

I'm not accusing you of "embracing" dupes Speeder, I was just mentioning. We all know how many there are that do on bnet though.

I do understand the need for a currency, but like you said, "When there is no natural common currency, nature will provide, so-to-speak." If there were no dupes, sooner or later a currency would come about. Probably in the form of pgems and mid runes as opposed to pgems and high runes the way things are now.

Also, I understand that AA use and dupe use (not duping itself) are in two entirely different classes. I was just saying that as much as you hear legit players talking down to illegit ones, you will hear twice as many illegit players talking down to legit ones.