What would you do if somebody cheated you?

[salvo]

Without mentioning name, this my case:

I made some trade with somebody, then that guy got caught duping or something else illegal. I deleted everything came from him. Now through my email client (sent items folder) or ATMA backup, i can recover those items i traded to him.

This is a big temptation to me, i've PMed Krem and he said it sounds OK, but before i anything i want to consult you all first:
What would you do if you are in my position?
Will you suffer the great loss (SoJ,HoZ,etc) or recover those items?
I'm affraid if some member will sees those items as tainted then refuse to trade with me for that reason.

i thankyou for your advice

-salvo

[midnightvulture]

It seems fine, but I'm a very inexeperienced trader so I'm not really sure.

mv

[Masas]

Without mentioning name, this my case:

I made some trade with somebody, then that guy got caught duping or something else illegal. I deleted everything came from him. Now through my email client (sent items folder) or ATMA backup, i can recover those items i traded to him.

This is a big temptation to me, i've PMed Krem and he said it sounds OK, but before i anything i want to consult you all first:
What would you do if you are in my position?
Will you suffer the great loss (SoJ,HoZ,etc) or recover those items?
I'm affraid if some member will sees those items as tainted then refuse to trade with me for that reason.

i thankyou for your advice

-salvo
Depends on the items. There are only 6 items that I would consider restoring in such a way. And only 5 of them apply in these forums. That would be Tyraels Might, Stormlash, Mang Songs Lesson, Deaths Web, Astreons Iron Ward, and a High Rune. Otherwise it's not worth the trouble, because anything else can be replaced some day.

[maxgerin]

I understand the temptation.
Personally, I would rather accept it as a loss and not retrieve the items...
However, though I see a potential problem arising from retrieving the items, I also think you have the right to do so.

So suggestions you can take if you want to retrieve your items:

1) Use the "search" function of the forum and input the fingerprint of the items you wish to retrieve to see whether it has been traded to someone else. But this is not an exact thing, even for trades inside the forum. I think there is only until a certain day of post where the search ends... it doesn't extend even though you choose "any date". I'm not sure, but it does seem like that.

2) Post the ATMA stats of the items and ask each and everyone of the traders to check their stashes to see if the items have reached other people's stashes. This is very much based on trust that others will tell you if they got the same item as well, but might be worth the shot.
This is a big hassle for everyone, but I hope everyone co-operates. Personally, I have no problem if you ask us to do this.


Sorry to hear about another legit member getting scammed... :(


--maxgerin

[salvo]

I thankyou very much for every suggestion and advice,
but maybe masas is right:
not worth the trouble, because anything else can be replaced some day.
I decided to not retrieve the items :)

-salvo-

[Liliel]

I fail to see what the problem is. Those goods did NOT come directly from him, which means that he did not ever touch them. Therefore, they are untainted. I cannot see how one can logically say they are tainted.

If someone used an editor to create an exact, indistinguishable copy of your item, does that make your item any less legit? No, because he never touched your item. That is the equivalent of what this unnamed person has done. He obtained an exact, indistinguishable copy of your item using illegitimate means. The copy you possess is legitimate and untouched by said ex-member, and is not made less so by his transgressions.

Assuming you've removed any tainted items from your stash, I think the worst you should be required to do is post the fingerprints so others can check their stashes.

[nepeta]

Pure going salvo :)

I'm opposed to retrieving items lost to cheaters, strengthens the soul: makes you a more carefull trader, which is good for overall legitness. I would be really pissed though, if some items were rather 1337 :x Sorry for your losses.

[2xcess]

I fail to see what the problem is. Those goods did NOT come directly from him, which means that he did not ever touch them. Therefore, they are untainted. I cannot see how one can logically say they are tainted.

If someone used an editor to create an exact, indistinguishable copy of your item, does that make your item any less legit? No, because he never touched your item. That is the equivalent of what this unnamed person has done. He obtained an exact, indistinguishable copy of your item using illegitimate means. The copy you possess is legitimate and untouched by said ex-member, and is not made less so by his transgressions.

Assuming you've removed any tainted items from your stash, I think the worst you should be required to do is post the fingerprints so others can check their stashes.

Yea, but now your untainted item may show up again in someone else's trade or stash. Calling into question the legitimately of your item. Depending on the items, I too would lean toward recovering them but I would have a quick record and history of items in this category.

One of my items came up elsewhere on the forum. It took me a couple hours to go through the trade history to clear my name with Krem. Those couple hours can be detrimental to your reputation. While we try not to, people are usually guilty by association in this forum.

2xcess

[ricrestoni]

Sorry to hear that, Salvo. Unfortunately, there is no discussion on this matter. You CANNOT retrieve those items, for legitness sake. Thi has happened way too many times in the past, and all these times, people around helped donating what was lost to compensate that.

I know you are tempted, but don't do it. Or you will be duping.

So please, state here what was the trade, so that I can check my stash to give you some stuff back, or some stuff you traded for. I am sure people here will do the same thing. This is not called a friendly forum for nothing, mind you.

@Krem - what were you thinking? *bonks Krem's head in mod stick*

[GooberGrape]

I would only ever restore backup items if I was specifically asked by the reciever. Anything can be replaced.

On the other hand, I don't see a problem with paying a fair sum for a "hacked" item. You paid the fair price for it, it's yours.

In your case, I probably wouldn't have deleted the items from (name deleted), because I paid a fair "price" for them and therefore earned them. But I would not restore any traded items, because they represent the "price" paid for those items. I hope you can understand my logic.

Either way, it always sucks to lose a fellow D2 player.


-GG

[Dodgydave]

Unfortunately you can not restore the items. I've lost many items through having to delete them including an Azurewrath, Mara's, Tomb Reaver and Fine SC of Vita. It's an unfortunate situation where you have to delete the items you received. However, you can't restore what you sent because that means duplicates of them will exist and as was mentioned earlier this could come back to bite you.

It's always tough when you realise you've been burnt.

Tough break.

[Kremtok]

@Krem - what were you thinking? *bonks Krem's head in mod stick*

To be honest, I was thinking that if it were me (and it was -- one time), I would restore the items. Personally, I see nothing wrong with it. You are all entitled to disagree with me, and will not take it to heart.

I do want to say that I admire salvo for asking public opinion on the matter. As it is always the individual's choice to do anything with a Single Player character, he easily could have restored them and none of you would have been any the wiser. However, doing this would affect the rest of you, as many other things can and do. Therefore, he is right to bring the question to the open forum.

salvo: +1 to props for showing good moral fiber and integrity :)

[salvo]

[QUOTE=ricrestoni]
So please, state here what was the trade, so that I can check my stash to give you some stuff back, or some stuff you traded for. I am sure people here will do the same thing. This is not called a friendly forum for nothing, mind you.
QUOTE]


a very generous offer, but it's ok, i can afford the loss. Indeed a friendly forum, many thanks.
and dont worry, i've deleted those items:

-20% griffon eye
SoJ
HoZ
Perfect lit Facet x2
Knell Striker (grail)
Ormus Robes +3 lighting

Socketing quest x2

Once again no need to send me anything, to see your concerns is more than enough. :thumbsup:

Long live SPF!

[Steven Q Urkel]

You lost a -20 Griffons??

And an SoJ??

Ouch, dude. That really hurts.

[Sleepless]

Sorry for your lost dude. However, maybe it will teach you to do some research before trading with someone, especially when they trade items for cheap dirt.

[Dgray]

duping---the worst thing ever.

however i have done it for one character and one item only. fury bb ....i made a frenzy barb and i plan on writing a how to make a frenzy barb guide and post it. but i didnt have another sword or a means of getting another really.....cant really trade for runes n stuff....so i decided that i would dupe it so i could complete the character ... make another frenzy barb another way to see how it does etc. *i plan on deleteing one of them when im done with frenzy barb and just maken a regular barb or putting a doombringer on there*

well back to the subject at hand. well youve been scammed...he dupes...youve lost your items unless if you sink to his level and dupe the ones u traded him...sorry i wouldnt do it.

[Summoned]

HoZ
That's about the only thing I can help replace, since it's the only item I have an extra of. (And the only other item I have on that list is the soj, pretty nasty ripoff.)

@Dgray: if you use a duped item on your barbarian, he's not going to be considered legitimate once you "complete" him, and neither will the items he finds.

[Uzziah]

I actually had this happen once in a round robin trade, I had a trader seem to drop of the face of the earth with a stash containing 50 jewels most of which were nice quality. In that case I decided to inform them that their items were now considered nonlegit and I restored the stash from an email, making careful check that they were all non duped items then I began over sending the trade to the next person on the list.

From some peoples view that is against their puritian beliefs but it was a calcultated and fair way to handle things. IMHO you should be able to retrieve those things you lost since that person is not in the trading pool now. I would wait for the steam to boil over and act as though your trade failed to go through and was called off. Simply put the person who was banned renigged on a deal, good riddens to bad rubbish.

[ricrestoni]

You are all entitled to disagree with me, and will not take it to heart.

And this is why you are this great guy! :thumbsup: I will stop picking up on you for now :teeth:


Salvo, what are those 2 socket quests? Did you lose the item that would be socketed? If not, send those 2 to my forum name @ ig.com.br , as I have many of these at hand (since I wait for perfect items to drill a hole). Sorry, I can't help really with the rest of your stuff, they are a little out of my league, unfortunately.

I might have something you were supposed to receive, instead. What were you trading for?

[salvo]

Salvo, what are those 2 socket quests? Did you lose the item that would be socketed? If not, send those 2 to my forum name @ ig.com.br


Yes, i lose the socketed griffon and ormus, but the MFO has compensated me with 3 item from above list:

Herald of Zakarum
Gilded Shield
Defense: 496
Chance to Block: 72%
Smite Damage: 20 to 28
Durability: 38 of 50
(Paladin Only)
Required Strength: 89
Required Level: 42
Unidentified
Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
Item Level: 87
Fingerprint: 0x6aef66dc
+20 to Strength
+20 to Vitality
+194% Enhanced Defense
+30% Increased Chance of Blocking
All Resistances +50
+2 to Paladin Skill Levels
30% Faster Block Rate
20% Bonus to Attack Rating
+2 to Combat Skills (Paladin Only)

Bul-Kathos' Wedding Band
Ring
Required Level: 58
Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
Item Level: 85
Fingerprint: 0x58870f92
+50 to Maximum Stamina
4% Life stolen per hit
+1 to All Skill Levels
+0 to Life (Based on Character Level)

Ormus' Robes
Dusk Shroud
Defense: 430
Durability: 10 of 20
Required Strength: 77
Required Level: 75
Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
Item Level: 87
Fingerprint: 0xfaf81ada
Regenerate Mana 10%
+20 Defense
20% Faster Cast Rate
+3 to Lightning (Sorceress Only)
+12% to Fire Skill Damage
+14% to Lightning Skill Damage
+13% to Cold Skill Damage

But you are not allowed to help me ric, forum rules forbid us to trade or giveaway quest reward :)

[Randall]

put all your stuff aside and make a fresh (SPL) start, go 100% selffound :D

Randall

[SincereX13]

To be honest, I was thinking that if it were me (and it was -- one time), I would restore the items. Personally, I see nothing wrong with it. You are all entitled to disagree with me, and will not take it to heart.

I do want to say that I admire salvo for asking public opinion on the matter. As it is always the individual's choice to do anything with a Single Player character, he easily could have restored them and none of you would have been any the wiser. However, doing this would affect the rest of you, as many other things can and do. Therefore, he is right to bring the question to the open forum.

salvo: +1 to props for showing good moral fiber and integrity :)

The problem is that I'd assume since the guy was a hack anyway what's to say he didn't dupe and then give out my items to someone else. Heck even if he still uses them himself then that makes two versions of the items in use if they are restored. It is a good question, I guess it is just a matter of where you fall on the caution line.

[Colorless Green]

Out of curiosity, what exactly does it matter if someone who is permanently out of the MP/trade pool (i.e. banned for duping/hacking) has copies of your items (by way of one restoring their items after a failed trade)? As far as you or anyone else at the forum is concerned, there is only one.

And if said haxx0r were to make more copies and distribute them, as was suggested, anyone who had copies of these items would immediately become suspect.

[Sleepless]

Out of curiosity, what exactly does it matter if someone who is permanently out of the MP/trade pool (i.e. banned for duping/hacking) has copies of your items (by way of one restoring their items after a failed trade)? As far as you or anyone else at the forum is concerned, there is only one.

And if said haxx0r were to make more copies and distribute them, as was suggested, anyone who had copies of these items would immediately become suspect.
I understand your point but you must understand that the SPF isn't the only d2 trades forums and all these forums have a lot of "cross-member" (member of both). So the "hax0r" might register to another forum, trade to others people w/o knowing he's an hacker. Then, the guy who received the items (members of both forums) might want to trade it there, therefore creating a dupe in SPF trading pool. Yeah, I know it's complicated and purist but that's the first explanation I come up with.

[Dgray]

what other trade forums are there?

[necrolemming]

I'll restrain myself from taking a cheap shot at you, but to answer your question:

what other trade forums are there?


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[NSXdreamer]

What would I do eh? I'd find the guy who cheated with her, do horrible things to him infront of her. Wait, you aren't asking about this...


Not much really besides being pissed, that's internet for yall.