Armor for jav/bow hybrid (pvm)

[xyzthorakzyx]

I am thinking about what armor to use for my ama. I will be using lightning fury + charged strike mainly and switch toa bow for light immunes.

I see three choices fro my armor: fortitude, chains of honour or enigma. I really like that teleport on enigma, but I think my resists will suck with it.

Another question about chains of honour,
+200% Damage To Demons
+100% Damage To Undead
will they work on lightning fury or just pure physical damage?

edit: Found the answer on my fortitude question.

[HCTwinJava]

i tried coh and nigma on my zons. i noticed my javazon would never need to use tele to do anything she's good at (cowing, for example). by the way, she can't tele fast enough - and i haven't found a good reason to have her do that.

coh was extremely helpful to my bowazon, because of its 65% resist all and because every single mod on it is useful to a bowazon for both hell survival and for damage.

fortitude is good to boost dmg/defense, not very important to a javazon, but may be important to a bowazon (you'll never have enough dmg from a bow, the more the better), but defense is usually useless to both java and bowazons. it's a very nice, arguably the best (or one of the best), armor for a high-lvl merc. for this purpose, make it on an eth armor with very high defense.

[sangfagel]

sry - double click

[sangfagel]

Any ED, ED against demons/undead affect only ph dmg.
Using Enigma is bad taste imo.
Using Enigma for a zon... is just horrible.
If you want to build a char who tele and use lightning - why not go for lightning sorc?
For a zon Lionheart is better than Enigma. CoH is of course very nice -especially if you play melee and have some probs with resists.
If you think to solo anything in Hell dif you must have an alternative to your ligtnig based attacks.

[Tarantella]

Any ED, ED against demons/undead affect only ph dmg.
Using Enigma is bad taste imo.
Using Enigma for a zon... is just horrible.
If you want to build a char who tele and use lightning - why not go for lightning sorc?
For a zon Lionheart is better than Enigma. CoH is of course very nice -especially if you play melee and have some probs with resists.
If you think to solo anything in Hell dif you must have an alternative to your ligtnig based attacks.


Enigma on a zon!!

My cheaper preference (for HC) is for stone armour,spirit,LoH,treks (aiming for 4 frame hit recovery)with a defiance merc and my alternative to lightning is hitting everything with a thrown upped max titans with max critical strike, max pierce, max strength, leaving the merc, valk and golem to tidy up the wounded. :)

Well it works fine in one player games. :D

[mgill1772]

to all the people saying no to enigma on a zon, shhhhhhhhhhhhh!

you must have never tried it, if you are playing softcore, the game is fairly easy one u have amassed the wealth to make enigma, coh, and fort.

COH will make your zon invincible but it really is not needed, fort likewise to me is over kill, for bowazon, maybe I would use it but not for hybrid. Enigma makes the game more interesting and give you higher playability. You are a very fast character in enigma and you receive teleport, teleport allows you to tele thru areas for positioning and alloy you to drop your allies on foes, ie merc and valk, both can do seriosu damage if used properly. If you have never used enigma on a zon try it. Sure maybe it improves a hammerdin more but hammerdins are boring anyway, I like to play amazon so I will use enigma, and I alway like to wear mf. If you want a brickhouse use COH, if you want huge damage with bow use fort, if you think you can already hang and want a fun ride use enigma, I can easily kill in all areas of the game.

[richo]

well the cheaper version of coh = viper skin

coh is just the ultimate pvm ama runeword, forti is decent but with a ama build like i sometimes make them i REALY need a coh for resist as bowazons just dont wear a shield, wich gives you already with the common storm or spirit (with dexazone max block), and gives less dmg reduce, wich coh gives to 8% dmg reduce, +2 skill, 8% LL, +65 all resist what could ask more off for a ama it is just to good for pvm enigma can **** a point to that as i never would even consider tele on a ama (would be fun though ama with 120% fcr) wich brings me on idea~~

Tarantella: stone is a very good option 2 as that has somthin like viper some resist BEST DEF a armor RW can have and some other nice stats

fortitude i dont like that much sure it has fcr if it was frw (ubzor) i would use it but the 200% ed and the life is nothing compared with coh cause on time 8% dmg reduce is better then life and the resist is 35% more then on forit witch makes it better to and i'd say for pvm life > dmg, leech > dmg, % dmg reduce > life...

rgzzz
RICHO

[xyzthorakzyx]

If I don't use fortitude, how am I going to kill those light immunes? I realise resistance might be a problem, guess I'll have to get a lot of resist charms if I use anything else than coh.

The whole point with enigma is that you can control what your merc does. This is a HUGE advantage. It is also very useful for getting out of troublesome situations when you have a boss-pack hunting you.

Gaah, all three armors has something valuable, hmm.

I wouldn't say defence is of no importance to an amazon. Sometimes it laggs for a few seconds and then a high defence can save my life.

[Decebal]

IMO

LF-Java - COH stands out, Enigma is good too but not to teleport:P. Enigma has nice attributes but teleporting with a amazon???!!! :eek:

Edit: i saw some javazons that use umed Arkaines valor...kind of heavy imo opinion, but the weared stormshield so they had enough strength...

Straffer - Fortitude is KING! Followed by COH, Lionheart and Duress

Java/strafer - COH followed by fortitude (depends where u play)

/Dec

[sangfagel]

to all the people saying no to enigma on a zon, shhhhhhhhhhhhh!
....
you must have never tried it, .
I see - you missunderstod me completely.
I never claimed that Enigma is a bad armour or that it is useless for a zon. I said that it was tasteless/horrible to use it.

Explanation:
There´s only one reason for Enigmas popularity: It gives any non-sorc chars ability to leleport at will.
Teleportation is not only the best tactical skill in the game. It is the most overpowered skill in the game. For instance - in WoW is teleportation limited by latency period after every "jump". It has practicaly no limitations i Diablo. What you need is mana and fcr - that´s it.
Tele works when you are attacking, tele works when you retreat, tele is the only skill giving you almost perfect controll over your merc and summons, tele is the best and fastest way to reach any destination. Because Enigma = tele, Enigma is absolutely not "bad" ;)
I still think that using Enigma playing a zon is horrible... why?... hmm...
It´s just too good. A zon has many very powerfull skills of her own. Lf is next best crowd killer (after assa´s lightning/death sentry combo) Valkyrie is looong way best singel summon, you have CA, GA, Strafe and all these wonderfull passives... It´s almost impossible to build a bad zon.
If you still need Enigma - play open realm with this bow:

Might of Folly
Hunters bow
Required clvl: 1
dmg: 101% of targets hp
Always hits
Always pierces
Always kills
Fires starget seeking arrows
Unlimitetd range
+ 500% mf
Level up after every kill
Casts Nova lvl 999 when you lvl up
Makes you, your party , your family and your dog IMMORTAL

[xyzthorakzyx]

I see - you missunderstod me completely.
I never claimed that Enigma is a bad armour or that it is useless for a zon. I said that it was tasteless/horrible to use it.

Explanation:
There´s only one reason for Enigmas popularity: It gives any non-sorc chars ability to leleport at will.
Teleportation is not only the best tactical skill in the game. It is the most overpowered skill in the game. For instance - in WoW is teleportation limited by latency period after every "jump". It has practicaly no limitations i Diablo. What you need is mana and fcr - that´s it.
Tele works when you are attacking, tele works when you retreat, tele is the only skill giving you almost perfect controll over your merc and summons, tele is the best and fastest way to reach any destination. Because Enigma = tele, Enigma is absolutely not "bad" ;)
I still think that using Enigma playing a zon is horrible... why?... hmm...
It´s just too good. A zon has many very powerfull skills of her own. Lf is next best crowd killer (after assa´s lightning/death sentry combo) Valkyrie is looong way best singel summon, you have CA, GA, Strafe and all these wonderfull passives... It´s almost impossible to build a bad zon.
If you still need Enigma - play open realm with this bow:

Might of Folly
Hunters bow
Required clvl: 1
dmg: 101% of targets hp
Always hits
Always pierces
Always kills
Fires starget seeking arrows
Unlimitetd range
+ 500% mf
Level up after every kill
Casts Nova lvl 999 when you lvl up
Makes you, your party , your family and your dog IMMORTAL

I agree that the reason why enigma is good is because it gives teleport which is one of teh best skills/spells in the game. I do not agree that an assassin with lightning/death sentry combo kills faster than LF though. By the time an assassin has layed out 5 traps an ama has cast 5 lightning fury and the enemies will be dead. An ama also has charged strike which kills bosses a lot faster than said assassin. A trapassin has better survivability though because it doesn't have to be as close to the enemy and it can spend a lot more points into vit. It also has fade = better resistances. Claw block about equals the amas avoid/evade/dodge skills.

After testing enigma on my ama I was rather dissapointed though. The lack of faster cast made me instantly be interrupted by enemies making it almost worthless.

The question now remains, coh or fort? If anyone can tell me how I am going to kill light immunes without using fort I would be happy to use a coh...

[HCTwinJava]

Lf is next best crowd killer (after assa´s lightning/death sentry combo)


this is an interesting point.

a little while back, on the sorc forum I did a calculation to prove why an LF javazon can beat any lightening-based sorc in damage output by a great margin, provided that they have equivalent/comparable gear and character levels (so that you don't compare a poor level 75 javazon to a fully synergized level 99 uber sorc).

I forgot the details and won't do that again here. But I believe in this case, an asn (with equivalent/comparable gear/levels) would need to lay down a dozen LS with 4 DS (to cover the four corners of your screen) in order to compete the killing speed of a well-built, well-played javazon in the secret cow level. We all know, that's impossible.

A javazon needs to herd cows fast and masterfully to fully realize the potentials of high-level LF. Such a javazon is rarely seen in public games. In fact, even in a private party cowing game, such a javazon should leave her party well behind.

Killing 100s of cows in a few seconds is something that no other class can even get close to being able to do.

Teleport is useless in the secret cow level - as I tested, it does not help with herding at all, and does not help to boost the killing speed there.

[Superhal]

re: armor for damage: for LF, skills give more damage than ED, so +skills better than fortitude. if you get a 15% lightning ormus, and add a 5% facet, that's equivalent to +10 from synergies (not necessarily a good thing, i'm just saying the synergies for LF are horrible.)

re: cowing: yes, you can kill tons and tons of cows very easily with lf. however, there's a point of diminishing returns, where the additional effort in grouping cows results in slower overall killing time. personally, i do a max of 1 screen worth of cows, 3/4 is more efficient, but a minimum of 2 groups. i tried groups the entire level together, but what's the point? if you are using titans or demon arch, you get javs to spare, and it only costs 1 gold to get more.

re: enigma bias: yes, it's a horrible item. they should get rid of either the +2 skill or the teleport (i would much rather get rid of the tp and leave it as +2 skills and mf, where there is a real use for that item.) i haven't used one yet. actually, i always save amulets with tp charges, and i haven't used those either.

[xyzthorakzyx]

I still haven't got an answer for my question. How does LF amas handle lightning immunes? If you use chains of honour then how do u kill them?

I don't want a character to use in just the cow level but a character that can handle all situations. (don't tell me to make a hammerdin or I will smack you...:) )

[Superhal]

i put 6 points into the bow tree for slvl 5 multishot, and used a buriza. but, then somebody turned me on to jab, and i've been doing it ever since. i would only advise this if you have max block and 20 pts in valk, because the reason why something is LI is usually because it's lightning enchanted, and you need to piggy back onto the valk to protect yourself.

however, after some thought, i should have just used widowmaker or another bow that comes with magic arrow, or put a point into magic arrow (which would get a huge boost from +skills.) this would also take care of pi's, and the dreaded pi/li.

[xyzthorakzyx]

All of those alternatives will be helped by fortitude so that armor it will be. Thanks for your help people...

[sangfagel]

... I do not agree that an assassin with lightning/death sentry combo kills faster than LF though. By the time an assassin has layed out 5 traps an ama has cast 5 lightning fury and the enemies will be dead. An ama also has charged strike which kills bosses a lot faster than said assassin. ...
It is OT now, but original poster has already get his answers and made his mind so I feel free to make this comment:

Notice that lighting/death sentry is efficient for mixed packs including L immunes; LF is not. Anyway I am not going to argue "which class is BEST" ;)
I love to play ama but I have my favorite builds in any other of classes as well.

[Decebal]

I still haven't got an answer for my question. How does LF amas handle lightning immunes? If you use chains of honour then how do u kill them?

I don't want a character to use in just the cow level but a character that can handle all situations. (don't tell me to make a hammerdin or I will smack you...:) )

Hi!

I do kill lightning immunes by using CS. I get phisical damage from my Eth upped titans + stats in dex + Valkyrie + HF Merc using INFINITY!!!

But Your mec can use Reapers Toll! Decripify helps!

Sometimes i ran into bosses that are immune to lightning, immune to physical damage and have stone skin! :mad: Damn them!!! :D

/Dec

[Decebal]

It is OT now, but original poster has already get his answers and made his mind so I feel free to make this comment:

Notice that lighting/death sentry is efficient for mixed packs including L immunes; LF is not. Anyway I am not going to argue "which class is BEST" ;)
I love to play ama but I have my favorite builds in any other of classes as well.

IMO opinion LF JAva kills faster than trapper! Especially in cowlevel!

Have not try Trapper that has a merc that uses infinity though! Might be a different story when combining LS with DS...

/Dec

[xyzthorakzyx]

Hmm, all these posts has made me wonder about another thing. Why does noone use a hybrid with a bow as a secondary weapons instead of relying on the physical damage from titans? It seems to me that the titans would not do enough physical damage (a bow hybrid can also handle PI/LI with magic arrow).

Sangfagel: I found that DS/LS kills rather fast in low player games but when there are more than 1 player they do not kill fast enough compared to a LF ama. Fireblast offered an opportunity to kill lightning immunes together with DS though but the speed is worse than LF in my opinion. However, considering a trapassin has an easier time against light immunes maybe the overall killing speed will be faster with it. Killing baal was too slow for my liking though...

[Superhal]

actually, i use LF vs lightning immunes. it still carries phys damage from the jav itself.

[mgill1772]

I have an older hybrid zon, older meaning before all the new rune words came about, i think i could make a new one now that was a lil better......i think infinity kinda makes anybuild with single element strong attack best, ie fireballer, cold sorc, or light java fastest killers. But to answer your question.

I use 50 points lightning, 20 lf, 20 charged, and the other 10 prereq and light bolts. and about 30 in the ice tree of the bow, 20 FA, some CA. I also drop a few in multi.

I used wf and upeth titan, 90 ias bow, 55 ias jav, enigma, can kill anywhere and really fun char with good mf ~~200.....

I think to remake you could do better with some of the words, like for instance, i think the same skill alot ment maybe more ice would work great with diff items encorporating r/w's.

griffon eye
spirit
ice mat bow
enigma
up eth titan
wt
ravenfrost
dual ring
highlord
lavagout for enchant or i would say loh but not really a phy build anymore

and then pride/might or faith/rogue......would be a fast killen, rushin zon, with mediocre mf.....FUN, could probably go gmb if u used faith rogue....

I dont really have wealth since most of my accts expired, but if u do I would try a build like that.....

[XZON]

Hmm, all these posts has made me wonder about another thing. Why does noone use a hybrid with a bow as a secondary weapons instead of relying on the physical damage from titans? It seems to me that the titans would not do enough physical damage (a bow hybrid can also handle PI/LI with magic arrow).

Sangfagel: I found that DS/LS kills rather fast in low player games but when there are more than 1 player they do not kill fast enough compared to a LF ama. Fireblast offered an opportunity to kill lightning immunes together with DS though but the speed is worse than LF in my opinion. However, considering a trapassin has an easier time against light immunes maybe the overall killing speed will be faster with it. Killing baal was too slow for my liking though...

If looking for a Hybrid lightening zon with bow back up, check out my faith/fury build in the guides thread. LF for crowds, CS for boss's, strafe for LI and magic arrow for PI & LI. Build requires a faith but only uses 5 points in the bow tree and Lightening side is extremely strong.

To XYZ, definately COH. Resists, life / kill, +2 skills etc. Lightening is your primary killer so use an armor to pump that side. Fortitude would increase the physical side of the build but the price is too high in order to add damage to a secondary skill.

[xyzthorakzyx]

I started thinking about maybe impale or fend. Anyone tried using these with upped eth titans? If I can avoid using a bow I could use cta on switch instead which would prove EXTREMELY useful for +1 skills and + a lot of life.

mgill1772: Hmm, looks like an interesting build but how much damage did that frozen arrow do at lvl 30 with maxed cold arrow? Is it really enough to kill? With this setup I guess a CoH would be best armor also. And in a LF/FA build I would absolutely use infinity for my merc.

XZON: Yes, that is another alternative. I want to have a cta in my weapon switch though which means I want to avoid a bow/java hybrid if possible.

[XZON]

I started thinking about maybe impale or fend. Anyone tried using these with upped eth titans? If I can avoid using a bow I could use cta on switch instead which would prove EXTREMELY useful for +1 skills and + a lot of life.

mgill1772: Hmm, looks like an interesting build but how much damage did that frozen arrow do at lvl 30 with maxed cold arrow? Is it really enough to kill? With this setup I guess a CoH would be best armor also. And in a LF/FA build I would absolutely use infinity for my merc.

XZON: Yes, that is another alternative. I want to have a cta in my weapon switch though which means I want to avoid a bow/java hybrid if possible.

Impale is extremely slow. Fend is bugged in that dodge/evade and avoid will interrupt the skill making it useless. Jab can be awesome with only 1 point spent.

You will find that a High FA with maxed synergy (the one that add damage) will be a very handy skill. It will kill and really help with souls however 2 downsides. Absolutely gulps mana and costs 40 hard skill points which will seriously lower your lightening damage.

CTA on switch is great for PvP but not needed for a PvM Amazon. Think about it, you could have 75% block and 60 to 65% dodge/evade/avoid. This keeps you extremely safe (90% of attacks will miss you). My build ended up with about 1600 life which is more than enough. The only thing that can really kill you is iron maiden or dolls which can kill a 5,000 life barb in a split second and can be prevented by using a ranged attack.