Assabear, Need help

[Gimmershred]

hey everyone,

After making a succesfull bearama it is now time for a bearassasin. Looks like fun and after i thought about it it doesnt seem so bad.

Pros:
1)weapon block saves massive dex investment coupled with the life increase from bear she gets insane life and decent blocking.

2) 2 available skills for different duellers. Bos makes up for the slow run/walk from the bear. Fade gives an excellent damage reduction.

3) runic talons with 60 ias on them will hit 3fpa. This is faster then any attack in the game. I however are gonna use chaos runic talons for 4 fpa, cause i have 1 already.

4) no-one can disagree that a faded superfast bear doesnt have style

Skills will be:
20 claw mastery
20 weapon block
20 venom
20 fade
1+bos
1+shadow master
1+blade shield (maybe more points cause of the short duration and i cant cast it in bearform , dont feel like shifting back and forth in mid of duelling)


Now for the questions i have:

i am planning to use the following:
chaos runic talons
+2 shadow 20 str 20frw res circlet
angelics amu+rings
trang belt for cbf life
bloodfists for fhr life
gore riders for ow ds cb
armor?????
offhand claw?????

on switch i use cta offcourse to increase life even further

what armour would be best, is it worth it to use fortitude? the damage of runic talons aint that great and maybe the 300% ed from forti won't do much

maybe enigma? +2 skills frw , strenght is all good. more frw will let me use fade vs some slower chars. the less str the more i can invest in life and the +2 skills support my venom

or maybe nats armor with 3 poison facets or bramble ? my venom damage will be the main damage source on this build then

Now for the offhand claw.

does open wounds from fury triggers when i dont hit with that claw ?(only the chaos will land hits) is fury the best claw then? or would a nice jade talon complement the build more. My res wont be very high with the equip i mentioned so i am leaning more towards using a jade talon with an um in it for some more ow.

i know i ask many questions but i hope some pro ww-assas will look it over cause some of the things here are quite similar to it and i am really eager to start building this char.

[gunske]

If you go full bear you must use Fury runic as your main and jade for off.
BUT!!! : if you use 2 x claws your attacks are to slow i suggest a 6Sock PB (4shael, 2x15 res +str)
In bearform you can't ww btw.
For Great dmg try to pre-buff your venom ( i do 6.8 k dmg with chaos claw and 6.4 k with fury on my wwsin -----> lvl 53 Venom pre-buff with TO, perf Bramble)

never tried to create a bearsin so let us know something please :thumbsup:

[HaLoPhReAk]

you said "a faded super fast bearasin" you can't stack fade and BoS, but you can put poison w/ one of them (example: Fade and poison, or BoS and poison, but not fade and BoS). But other than that, it looks like a cool (and possibly good) build (non-cookie cutter :D ). Good luck... actually, i got a question, if i had 2 Jade Talons on my switch weapons slot (didn't use them) would i get the resist bonus from them?

[gunske]

n :D


.........

[Gimmershred]

If you go full bear you must use Fury runic as your main and jade for off. yes, you are right there.

BUT!!! : if you use 2 x claws your attacks are to slow i suggest a 6Sock PB (4shael, 2x15 res +str). Why is my attack too slow when i use 2 claws? in bearform only 1 claw will
attack, the first i equip r does it work otherwise? i am curious to hear more about this. if i won't be using dualclaws i need to invest heavily in dex, then the advantage of the high life will be gone

In bearform you can't ww btw. i know that, i made bears out of many chars, i'll be using normal attack.

For Great dmg try to pre-buff your venom ( i do 6.8 k dmg with chaos claw and 6.4 k with fury on my wwsin -----> lvl 53 Venom pre-buff with TO, perf Bramble) Aah i forgot to mention trang oul, i'll be using that instead of bloodfists. i'll get my fhr from something else. what do you think will be the best armor for this bear. is fortitude an option considering the damage from claw and damage from bear and fast attack? or should i rely purely on venom and open wounds?

[Gimmershred]

you said "a faded super fast bearasin" you can't stack fade and BoS, but you can put poison w/ one of them (example: Fade and poison, or BoS and poison, but not fade and BoS). But other than that, it looks like a cool (and possibly good) build (non-cookie cutter :D ). Good luck... actually, i got a question, if i had 2 Jade Talons on my switch weapons slot (didn't use them) would i get the resist bonus from them?

As i stated i will use fade vs melee opponents and bos to catch casters. i know i can't equip them both at the same time. you won't get the res bonus from the talons by the way if they are on the other switch.

[Joergermeister]

So your making a "bear-***".... Well I'd stick with the dual claws.. and I'm pretty sure that when your attacking the claw that is in your characters right hand or the left side of the inventory screen will be the one attacking... I am assuming this is PvP since your talking about chasing casters and such.... If you were to use enigma you'd have teleport so fade could be left on against casters and you could also divert even more points from strength to vitality...

Good Luck and let us know how it works out....
*NiteHawk

[Gimmershred]

thanks for the info on the claw swinging. About the teleport. Tele doesnt work when in bearform and shifting back and forth takes way too long.

[Pherdnut]

Wow. 3 frames? Was this assuming you could WW as a Bear or is this still possible? That's like 8 attacks a second. I find Greater Talons while hell cow running for socketables all the time. With some MF and a lucky rare find with 40% IAS and decent ED, you could simply upgrade to Runics and socket a Shael.

[Gimmershred]

Wow. 3 frames? Was this assuming you could WW as a Bear or is this still possible? That's like 8 attacks a second. I find Greater Talons while hell cow running for socketables all the time. With some MF and a lucky rare find with 40% IAS and decent ED, you could simply upgrade to Runics and socket a Shael.

according to this calculator runic talons with 60 ias hit 3 frames indeed assuming you use normal attack as an assbear.
i have some rare blade talons with 40 ias wich i can upgrade but the ed sucks so i think i can better use fury. Gambling blade talons is an option. I been doing that a while in act5 anya

calculator: http://students.washington.edu/akrinke/wereformadvanced.html

[Dad Daniel]

Actually, the fastest attack in the game is a bear assa.

Equip an artisan's (3 soc) greater/runic talon of quickness (40 ias), and 3 shael it up, and you'll his 2 fpa. Yup, it's insane, but you'll hit it. The speed is noticably greater than a zealot, who maxes out at 4 fpa. Your damage will be greatly compromised tho (maybe a 40 ed in a storm?)

Remember, bears' ias is calculated ONLY on weapons, so other ias will be nullified.

If you go for it bluedragoon, good luck getting the claw...the best I found after months of searching was a 2 soc greater talon of quickness, which meant I only hit 3 fpa. Either way, you'll probably need a runic talon and ed jewels to manage in hell.


If you aim such godly speed equip your assassin with as much as possible damage boosters,because of the very week main-weapon-damage (22-44 base), like: Fortitude armor, Phoenix shield, Guilluame's face - DS/CB/FHR (socet with 40ed/-15req), highlord amu (because of the deadly strike), Gore riders or maybe War traveler (i am not sure what is better for this build), Bloodfist gloves (life/fhr), godly rare STR/FHR/life/resistance belt.
Use as much as possible 10max/ar/3x-4x life grand charms (or 3/20/20 for dupers).
But with this items the character will have not enough res, so use fade instead Bos.

[Gimmershred]

yea, max damage charms help this build a lot. but i don't think i can afford many of those =( . res sucks indeed without fade, but if you cant deliver the damage, res doesnt matter, i tried several bears with +-100frw and even then its a pain in the *** catching casters. I rather walk much faster then have 70 res from fade. Maybe as helm a ummed kiras will be better then the circlet i described. It also frees the beltslot for verdungo for better dr.

Phoenix +forti is impossible. You will get a bear with no chance to block and mediocre life (high str req). It would be the same as my eth tombreaver fury druid , only with less life. Great damage but dies too fast.

i think indeed forti might be the nicest on this build. with venom and some open wounds life will drain pretty quick. I tried to shop cruel runic talons of quickness but anya almost doesnt sell runic talons , so it's quite hard to find those. If anyone on europe ladder has some nice rares or magic runic talons i'd love to have em=))

the problem for this build to work lies in finding the ideal way to use bos meanwhile remain nice res and decent damage and some frw. maybe kiras for res , cbf, fhr and mav belt for supplemental 20%frw. The 3%frw charms that are available on ladder seem to be a waste of charmspace on this char.

Ok fo so far i came to the following conclusion for gear:

Armor: Fortitude
Claw1: cruel runic talons of quickness , socketed shael (3fpa) or fury feral claws (4fpa)
Claw2: Jade talons
Armor: Fortitude
Boots: Gore riders
Rings+amu: Angelics
Helm: Ummed kiras vs casters,
Belt: Mavinas crappy belt for the 20frw or verdungos vs melee or 24 fhr, life res rare belt (woohooo i have a nice 1)
Gloves: Trang oul or Bloodfists , goal is to reach 86 fhr , bears recovery sucks

Res: 80 kiras 30quests, 18 anni, 40 jade = 68 all res. 3x shimmering sc's for little bit stacked. weapon block to block some elemental.

DR: +- lvl 30 fade= 30%dr, with my verdungo i hit 43% and gain 40 vita
FRW: with +- lvl 18 skillevel bos and 50% frw (30%gores 20% mavbelt) i hit 95% effective run walk, wich is freaking fast.

FHR: 20 kiras and 30 bloodfists :50 , 46 needed on charms 4x12% shadow skillers

Now my damage is sucky, I need more deadly strike but without angelics my ar will suck severely. This is were the fury claw kicks in , instead of 3fpa you hit 4 fpa with a nice 209% ed runic talons and a wopping 33% deadly strike + 15% deadly from gores.

the rest of the charmspots will be filled by max damage/ar/life charms.

So , you think this is the optimal equip for the bearsin?

[Pherdnut]

Now it's time to enter Baal runs randomly and say, "rare cruel masters mechanic's rune talons of quickness slaughter and simplicity 4 fre plz."

[gunske]

maybe you could create on singelplayer a char and edit it ?
so you can see if it works fine, saves your time when you create a new char on closed :thumbsup:

[Gimmershred]

maybe you could create on singelplayer a char and edit it ?
so you can see if it works fine, saves your time when you create a new char on closed :thumbsup:

i heard about it but i never tried to download a singleplayereditor, i don't know if i can ask it here but whats the program called and where do i find it?

[ilkori]

clicky (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=255885)

The PvP bearsin idea came hunting earlier. Clan_Iraq had some interesting things to say.

[claniraqisbackagain]

clicky (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=255885)

The PvP bearsin idea came hunting earlier. Clan_Iraq had some interesting things to say.


Indeed. I have a PvP werebear assassin (my wwsin using beast to shift).



The first thing I will say is weapon block DOES NOT work in wereform. Use a shield.

Second off, two weapons go slower then 1. About half the speed.

And thirdly, yarr, 100% ias g-talons hit the 2 frame breakpoint. I have been searching for artisans greater talons of quickness for a very long time. They are not easy to find >.>

For now, I use fools runic talons of quickness with 2 sockets


I can't recommend aiming for physical damage. Pumping venom instead works very well.


But otherwise the build works very well. I have 25k ar, and 3 frame attack. It can hold its own fairly well against any melee.

[Gimmershred]

The first thing I will say is weapon block DOES NOT work in wereform. Use a shield. Damn , that is a big dissapointment, i thought it would work because dodge/evade and avoid also work on a bearamazon. So the biggest advantage is gone =((

Second off, two weapons go slower then 1. About half the speed. If weapon block doesnt work , a shield is a better option anyways

For now, I use fools runic talons of quickness with 2 sockets But otherwise the build works very well. I have 25k ar, and 3 frame attack. It can hold its own fairly well against any melee.

I am curious how you reach 25k ar, wich only claw mastery boosting ar in %?
Did you count demon enchant ar with this? how much ar does fools mod give you? My bearamazon with max penetrate wich gives far higher ar boost and demon limb enchant only hits 18k ar with 2x angelics.

I am curious to hear more from you, i am on europe realm but maybe i can meet your assabear on whatever realm you are on? i would like to know what your equip is and how much life you have etc. etc. thank you for the info already, before i went making this char with dualclaws and weapon block.

I don't know if this char is really viable with the low damage and mediocre life it gets now.

[Zangeif]

This thread gets started like once every 6 months and I find it very interesting. Is 2fpa buggy or does it really work, has anyone ever tested a 3xShael artisans runic of quickness on Open?

[Pherdnut]

I don't think it's terrible that you have to use a shield. That certainly can help with resistance issues and the extra Dex will help AR issues. And hey, that's another 19-20 points that can be put elsewhere. I don't think I would build this without finding a really nice rare claw though. Although having a magic jeweler's of quickness on switchout would be awesome for applying CB to bosses I expect. With a 300+ ED -30 claw of quickness and Fort, this build would be brutal.

[megazero]

how does assasion tunr into bear??? :(

[Weltkriegpally]

curious...would a 271 ed/fools/quickness claw (turns into a feral or runic..not sure which) be of any use for the build? I happen to have found one. Aside from that, I play pvp werebears and from looking that these build ideas, I can name a few helpful hints from experience::

I am going to assume that you use duress as an armor. 40 fhr, ed, open wounds, crushing blow, resists, and the added cold damage make it too good to ignore.

you are assassins. you can get your dr from nearly anywhere and be at max:: shield suggestion..whistans, probably shaeled for fbr (really helps). fhr is your best friend. with that in mind and that you are assassins, single best boots for the build are shadowdancers. high str requirement, tis true, but +2 to your entire attack tree, 30 fhr, and massive dex are all godly mods for a bear. also frees up your slot for those trangs gloves. If you want to try a physical damage bear, you pretty much stuck using a fort. probably still want the shadows, though.

alright. I have dueled as a werebear for 2.5 years now. I can tell you that 86 fhr is a must. Since you have the option of going for 3 fpa, make sure you get your shield frame block as low as possible. otherwise, zealots and fury wolves can still lock you and will. shadow disciplines charms will help to a point, but the ar/max/life are almost always better. given that you have to use beast, make darned sure you have as many skills in the stash as possible. coh/sojs/+2 ammy/shako, etc. Its vitally important to y our life total. Good luck!

--welt

[batuchka]

Megazero : Assasin uses 'Beast' runeword to turn into a bear

Welt: Those are awesome claws! If -20 claw : 4fpa with shael and if -30 claw it hits 3fpa with a shael so wow!

All: There is a note in Dragoon's Werebear guide under weapons section/animation length calculation that states skill ias (SIAS) = ias from frenzy, fanaticsm, werewolf and BOS. Not the only reason frenzy and BOS doesn't work on druid bear is cos they can't have it but now with assy bear BOS is - so did i intepret that guide corectly? If so it could help slower weapons/claws and possibly slower claws like battle cestus/suwayyah could hit 4fpa bear attack at least (if it does work) Or its tried and tested that BOS doesn't increase attack speed of assy bear? Could anyone enlighten me on this? I am not very knowledgeble about non druid wereforms :( Linky:

http://students.washington.edu/akrinke/werebear/weapons.html

[Weltkriegpally]

well. I have a pally bear that uses fanat. I also know bearform attack speeds by looking (after a long time, you start to know..most of these guys can back that up I am sure). according to thedragoons calculator, a bear pally can attack at 5 fpa with a 40 ias phase(no fanat) or 37 ias+ with level 20ish fanat. turned off fanat with a 37 ias grief. 6 fpa. turned it on, 5 fpa. conclusion...fanat/bos DOES effect bear form attack speeds. Its wise to look into it.

--welt

[Davie.]

Well im gonna assume that since venom is the best type dmg you can get for this build, that he uses bramble..yarr?

[ilkori]

The SIAS does affect some setups. However, the insanely fast claws are not likely to be affected. I think there is a cap of 75 (might be 70) right in the middle of the equations. Look on the advanced page that explains how things work.

(I made a calculator once upon a time... I had to learn way too much.)

[souperiraq]

What I meant is that while sure BOS might help you go from 5 frames to 4 frames, it CANNOT help you go from 3 frames to 2 frames.

It can only be accomplished with 1 claw.

So yarr, venom is the best option here, and fade > bos for melee.

I STRONGLY recommend against anything below 3 frames. A 4 frame attack will get crushed by any other melee, since you will get interupted.
With a 2 frame attack, only half your attacks at most get interupted, which puts you on even footing with a zealot.
With 4 frames, all your attacks get interupted and you will not land a single hit.
3 frames has worked fairly well for me, but I have been searching for 2 frame claws forever.