Is there such thing as Unbeatable?

[Toadday]

Here is the thing. I like dueling but I can only afford to have 1 nasty PvP. Ive gone through a few stages of this and here is what ive found. Every1 can be beat by some form of a build. The closest ive come to being unbeatable without going BM is a Teleport WW barb. He tanks, he kills, he teleports! Post back on this if you PvP has NO trouble with anybuild. So far my WWsin can onlt be stopped by chargers but, im ok with that :lol:

[IN_FLAMES]

My WWbarb owns wwsins.

But yeah, definetally not unbeatable. A wind druid with high life owns me. Max block hammerdins can be a task.. Annoying necros that just tele-away and spam BS beat me alot.

Bowazons/Hammerdins/Wind druids/bonenecros using autoaim > my barb.

And also a few days ago I got owned hardcore by a summon/bone hybrid necro. I never got owned that badly in my life. He'd tele on me and my life orb would empty in like half a second.

That being said, I don't really get beat often by non-BMers.

[LorveN]

Its impossible to have a char that can win against any build, no matter who's playing it. If you play against someone really skilled, even the best build will have huge problems.
Beating a teleporting ww barb isnt easy though, so lets call it a build that has less problems beating others in general.

[Phyrexial]

Sigh... read this post, it will answer all your questions.

http://forums.diabloii.net/showpost.php?p=3535191&postcount=4

[Generator Of Chaos]

Sigh... read this post, it will answer all your questions.

http://forums.diabloii.net/showpost.php?p=3535191&postcount=4


..You quoted MY thread in your thread..I'm soo proud..*cries of joy*..

:PP

and yeah, there is no characte that can attain a 100% win ratio, cause, if for nothing else, there'll allways be a better player...

[Speederländer]

My WWbarb owns wwsins.

But yeah, definetally not unbeatable. A wind druid with high life owns me. Max block hammerdins can be a task.. Annoying necros that just tele-away and spam BS beat me alot.


Your comment about WW barbs "owning wwsins" is totaly misleading, even if it's just you bragging. 1 vs. 1, yes, a good ww barb will beat a ww sin. However, against other classes, the assassin often fairs better than the ww barb, even the BvC specialist. High life wind druids become much much easier when you can stun them and block their attacks. Defensive casters become susceptible to OW from dragon flight. If you can simply get on the caster's screen, DF is auto-target. WW barbs don't have anything so handy vs. defensive casters, often resorting to tricks like desync and some luck. Barbs, on the other hand do somewhat better vs. high defense casters, though not always, as both dueler type tend to strike high defense/max block characters when they are moving via whirl-away, when yout opponent's defense is zero and his block is 1/3 (forget exact number it drops to off-hand). At that point, the barbs AR advantage goes away, and it becomes an issue of relative level between the two duelers.

Further, there is no "universal" barb that owns everyone. If you make a BvC, then any decent BvB will take you apart. Likewise, a BvB trying to play as a BvC will fare poorly vs. casters.

So, it's really not as a black and white as you would think when differentiating between the capacity of a wwsin (assuming ghost variant) and a wwbarb.

[dkay]

Your comment about WW barbs "owning wwsins" is totaly misleading, even if it's just you bragging. 1 vs. 1, yes, a good ww barb will beat a ww sin. However, against other classes, the assassin often fairs better than the ww barb, even the BvC specialist. High life wind druids become much much easier when you can stun them and block their attacks. Defensive casters become susceptible to OW from dragon flight. If you can simply get on the caster's screen, DF is auto-target. WW barbs don't have anything so handy vs. defensive casters, often resorting to tricks like desync and some luck. Barbs, on the other hand do somewhat better vs. high defense casters, though not always, as both dueler type tend to strike high defense/max block characters when they are moving via whirl-away, when yout opponent's defense is zero and his block is 1/3 (forget exact number it drops to off-hand). At that point, the barbs AR advantage goes away, and it becomes an issue of relative level between the two duelers.

Further, there is no "universal" barb that owns everyone. If you make a BvC, then any decent BvB will take you apart. Likewise, a BvB trying to play as a BvC will fare poorly vs. casters.

So, it's really not as a black and white as you would think when differentiating between the capacity of a wwsin (assuming ghost variant) and a wwbarb.


i agree with ALMOST all that you say. cept wind vrs sin. ghosts have trouble against an extremely defensive windy. the windy can actually tele around until a ghosts mana goes out. also due to leap. minion stack is useless so it all comes down to who kills faster. in which case i think its a barb. (my friends windy could tank a crap load of whirls from my sin who did 5k whirl damage. he just used deaths glove)

[Speederländer]

i agree with ALMOST all that you say. cept wind vrs sin. ghosts have trouble against an extremely defensive windy. the windy can actually tele around until a ghosts mana goes out. also due to leap. minion stack is useless so it all comes down to who kills faster. in which case i think its a barb. (my friends windy could tank a crap load of whirls from my sin who did 5k whirl damage. he just used deaths glove)

I actually cheat. I play a hybrid ww/kick, not pure ww. And I always go about 80% kick vs. windies. The faster attack speed of the kicks, combined with WoF stun locks up all but the best of them. I use the ww to kill the sage.

Procedure is:
1. Lock them down with wake (letting the SM MB from 2 screens away :thumbsup: ).
2. MB-tele-WW hotkey flash for one quick triangular WW. This takes out the oak and any mercs.
3. DF on them to re-establish SM minion stack.
4. Initiate sequence of Kick(7/3/3/3) - kick(7/3/3/3) - trap (use WoF only) - trap - MB /repeat

If the Druid actually has good FHR, they may start to tank you, which means you execute this once, and then tele out, allowing OW to work. Good FHR means more hit and run. I find kicks to be more conducive to this because of their accuracy and the fact that you never "overshoot" or get a messed up WW namelock that ends with you whirling halfway across the bloodmoor.

['22'Souljah]

we keep getting these best char threads every week and they always end up being who's a better anti caster char ghosts or bvc
i'm really thinking all those best char threads should get stikcied

[Phyrexial]

we keep getting these best char threads every week and they always end up being who's a better anti caster char ghosts or bvc
i'm really thinking all those best char threads should get stikcied
Or a single post that has a link to all of them... *cough*

[IN_FLAMES]

Your comment about WW barbs "owning wwsins" is totaly misleading, even if it's just you bragging. 1 vs. 1, yes, a good ww barb will beat a ww sin. However, against other classes, the assassin often fairs better than the ww barb, even the BvC specialist. High life wind druids become much much easier when you can stun them and block their attacks. Defensive casters become susceptible to OW from dragon flight. If you can simply get on the caster's screen, DF is auto-target. WW barbs don't have anything so handy vs. defensive casters, often resorting to tricks like desync and some luck. Barbs, on the other hand do somewhat better vs. high defense casters, though not always, as both dueler type tend to strike high defense/max block characters when they are moving via whirl-away, when yout opponent's defense is zero and his block is 1/3 (forget exact number it drops to off-hand). At that point, the barbs AR advantage goes away, and it becomes an issue of relative level between the two duelers.

Further, there is no "universal" barb that owns everyone. If you make a BvC, then any decent BvB will take you apart. Likewise, a BvB trying to play as a BvC will fare poorly vs. casters.

So, it's really not as a black and white as you would think when differentiating between the capacity of a wwsin (assuming ghost variant) and a wwbarb.

I never said a wwbarb was a better class than a wwsin, but in straight 1v1 of equal skill, a wwbarb has a big advantage over a wwsin. I am however, a big fan of wwsins, and I loved mine before I stripped her awhile back, and they are a very versatile class and a big contender in the PvP scene.

[Lyrs]

Both are made to kill casters, i don't do see how a ghost sin is a caster nor do i see a bvc as a caster other than that they utilize teleport/dflight/misc. Therefore, if you have a duel between them, the results you get will not be the results you want. If we were to compare a bva v a ava (possibly a ghostsin variation), now that's a bit different, or a bvassn and a assvb (although i don't see how one can possibly win stats wise).

[dkay]

speed: in a bvb vrs bvc duel. the bvc barb can actually be very *** and just abuse teleport and widow maker (since bvbers dont use enigma) and assuming that they do... they're defense will drop dramatically, of course itll still be higher than a bvc barb. but in that case, the bvc barb can always slap on a shield and angelics and only have a slight disadvantage.

all that i said is assuming that the bvc barb isnt 100% bvc, of course. (has enough dex forblock but maxed leap isntead of shout.)

[luis19]

a bvb barb can do pretty good vs casters, you just switch gear. only difference is that almost all bvb barbs have lvl 1 leap and will have significantly lower life than a bvc barb.

my current barb is bvb with base 11 leap, i do well all around and only lose to a handful of duelers 1on1. on the otherhand a bvber without leap will lose alot more since leap makes dueling alot easier vs nearly all classes.

soon im gonna remake and copy mcm's bvc barb. suprisingly the life gap is small compared to my previous bva barb who had max block with 6.1k life (and could get max block with angelics and use duress;bvb); mcm's build with no prebuff is looking at 6.3k life.

you can also make base strength bvc barbs with some dex, adding 2x ravens, eld ss, +dex boots, you can get max block with very low dex. looking at around 6.6-7k life.

and yes, enigma, 2xraven+highlords setup does fairly well bvb. Why? highlords/enigma gives higher physical dmg then most bvb setups (i.e. duress/angelics). also tele allows you to telestomp ow barbs and to better place ww's (i.e. teleing behind someone and wwing right behind them as they ww).

ww barb vs ww sin...they are pretty much equal vs casters if you look at both build's weaknesses and strengths.

speederlander- its not that hard to catch defensive casters with a barb, although its prolly easier with a sin since SM aa's mb often.
some ways to catch defensive duelers:
1) leap alot. they will eventually get close as the duel drags on and namelock. tele twice since there is a delay and you're ontop of the caster, ww. repeat
2)dont chase them, leap in place and avoid missiles. they will eventually come to you.
3) widowmaker, its gg, no one wants to die to a bowbarb
4) if they are a sorc, um'ed wizzys on switch and bleed em, switch back if they decide to play offensive. you can do this to necros/trappers too but its very risky and botd/beast is more effective.

basically you can make you're opponent stop playing defensive by being more defensive than them or by pissing them off (widomaker/um'ed wizzys), but you can do the old fashioned leap across them map and eventually get a namelock (but requires patience).

[Bigrob]

no char is unbeatable, my friend.

Every build has its strength and weakness...

Unless u still have 08 valor or 08 shako in this patch...which is no way!

[koeraokse]

there are some chars that cant be beaten by other chars... everybody under lvl 9 :uhhuh:

:cheesy:
*priit

[Lyrs]

in hell and nm, it's not hard to beat those pesky <9's. Just gather a bunch of monsters at the gate.

It's harder to do in norm...

[Gfighter88]

i like my ww/conc/zerk poly brid works for me dont really see alot of trouble with hammerdins or wind druids.

i only put like 1-2 points in zerk max ww max axe mast max bo and shout 10 into conc and 1 into natural resistances get an enigma and good attack rating\ ebotd zerk you get a tele ww which for druids clears summons and the zerk or conc to concieve the kill and versus hammerdins tele ww for a good burst of first attacks and use conc \ zerk in the safety spot for the kill and other builds ww just owns them only trouble i see is smitadins =) but theirs always peoples comments what do you think about this new\used build? werkz fer me =) :clap:

[Phyrexial]

i like my ww/conc/zerk poly brid works for me dont really see alot of trouble with hammerdins or wind druids.

i only put like 1-2 points in zerk max ww max axe mast max bo and shout 10 into conc and 1 into natural resistances get an enigma and good attack rating\ ebotd zerk you get a tele ww which for druids clears summons and the zerk or conc to concieve the kill and versus hammerdins tele ww for a good burst of first attacks and use conc \ zerk in the safety spot for the kill and other builds ww just owns them only trouble i see is smitadins =) but theirs always peoples comments what do you think about this new\used build? werkz fer me =) :clap:
Conc is useless on a WW barb and without dual wielding I'm 100% sure any block necro will destroy this build easily. I'll prove it to you if you're on East NL.

[Gfighter88]

Conc is useless on a WW barb and without dual wielding I'm 100% sure any block necro will destroy this build easily. I'll prove it to you if you're on East NL.

Prefferably i would have caster slayer gear in my stash perhaps a beast war spike or even a fury war spike if i needed just to compremise the extra needed to take over even so why not put the 10 points into the zerk instead of conc?

[inkanddagger]

Lvl 8 howl barb - the most powerful pvp character on the intarnet.

[Mayhs]

lol my lvl 1 pala would own it:p