Teaching a shadowM to use syn? +%ED and trap question

[zeskelnec]

Hi,
I'm building a trapsin close to the excellent Jrichard's guide. I use and read tons of guides and strategy tips and calculators. But I noticed quite a strange thing with shadow Master.

I got a +3 Blad of Ice claw. My trapsin tries it . Suddenly, my faithful shadowmaster, who never animated BoI, uses it as main skill.

My question: Do we need to teach the shadow master all the skills, so she can profit of synergies, or does she learn really by herself and randomly kick, claw or trap.

Second question: Noob: is +% ED on armor (off weapon) like on lionheart, increases Traps dmg ?

Thanks for your reply

[riplix]

Hi,
I'm building a trapsin close to the excellent Jrichard's guide. I use and read tons of guides and strategy tips and calculators. But I noticed quite a strange thing with shadow Master.

I got a +3 Blad of Ice claw. My trapsin tries it . Suddenly, my faithful shadowmaster, who never animated BoI, uses it as main skill.

My question: Do we need to teach the shadow master all the skills, so she can profit of synergies, or does she learn really by herself and randomly kick, claw or trap.

Second question: Noob: is +% ED on armor (off weapon) like on lionheart, increases Traps dmg ?

Thanks for your reply

i'm pretty sure shadow master uses skills without being related to your gear at all. you don't have to teach him stuff. mine used venom whcih i never used or had on a claw.

the ed on armor does only increase physical damage and is threated differently from weapon-%ed. it only adds the % of damage of your weapon after any bonus-ed from skills etc has been applied iirc.

[Uzziah]

They use any and all skills (less shadow warrior and shadow master) they also gain the synergy of that skill level (the level they used) after they use that skill.

A cool trick is to use a high level shadow warrior, with 1 point in each trap and plenty of +skills to gain a really high level fireblast that is synergized with in the range of 25-30 of each synergy. I have done the calcs before and figured that the shadow warrior can cast 6k or was it 10k fireblasts, when you build a build directly for them.

Shadow masters on the other hand train themselves and will use whatever skill they want to use.

[ilkori]

Although Masters tend to use any skill which they happen to fancy at the moment, they do show a preference to skills which have higher point values. I.e, if you have maxed a skill, they are much more likely to use that skill than one you have 0 points in.

What most likely happened is the increase of points in BoI boosted your skill level, and therefore it boosted the Shadow's chance of using it. That you used it first is only a coincidence.

[zeskelnec]

1st: Í have some doubts on what u wrote. Synergies are based on "natural points" and not + skills items. Ex FB gets the max synergy from LVL 20 traps and certainly from LVL 1 LS if you put only 1 pt in LS, whatever the number of + skills u have.
Your SW will use her skill at "Your skill LVL"/2 +SW LVL /3
In the end if u have FB 20 and SW 20 + 10 traps she will have FB 30/2 + 20/3= 21 which remains much less that your FB 30.

I 'm preparing a huge excel file on ASSASSIN MA and TRAPS which calculates everything , synergies dmg, AR, FPA,EIAS, IAS needed to reach breakpoints, attributes points distribution, kick dmg , comparison, all tables ..I need to check some formulas before posting it.

2nd: for Ilkori : Thanks for ur comment but
My trapsin had already 20 in CBS and LS, 0 in MA when I got these +3 BoI claw so I'm still surprised. I could interpret it as when she is choosing the MA path, after MB and some traps laiddown, she tries the highest skill in that tree, and then your explaination is right.

[BIGeyedBUG]

Synergies are based on "natural points" and not + skills items.

This is correct for most player skills, but it works a little differently for Shadows. In effect, your level in a skill after +skills becomes the Shadow's "natural" skill level for synergization purposes at the time she activates it. The Shadow doesn't care whether your skill levels are natural or item enhanced.

(Presumably though, if the Shadow herself spawned with a +3 BoI claw--for instance--it should still have no effect on Phoenix3 synergization. But that's just an assumption.)

Also Crystalion--the person who discovered the way Shadows learned skills and synergies--strongly suspected that there was no level 20 cap on Shadow synergies either. I haven't seen this proven anywhere conclusively though.

[Uzziah]

Your SW will use her skill at "Your skill LVL"/2 +SW LVL /3Let me see If I can rework this as I did before to get the huge fireblast damage. I believe the build started like this:

20 fireblast
20 shadow warrior
1 each prerequirement
20 WoF
20 Death Sentry
13 WoI
---------
100 skill points

Let me use your equation slvl = lvl(skill)/2 + lvl(shadow)/3

And lets load up on +skills, intuitively adding charms as traps skillers will give the most damage 5 lvls compared to 3.33 lvls. and +2 skills will beat out +3 traps overall (because it raises both sw and the skill in question. So lets get the equipment organized.

Helm +2 assassin skills
amulet +2 assassin skills
claw +2 assassin skills
claw 2 +2 assassin skills
Armor +2 skills (COH?)
gloves (since +1 fire is possible and +traps is not) magefists
rings +2 all skills
belt +1 all skills
boots (no +skills :( )
charms +10 traps (this may change depending, you will see)

SW = 20+2+2+2+2+2+2+1 = 33 :thumbsup: divisable by 3 for 11 to the skill.
FireBlast = 20+2+2+2+2+2+1+2+1+10 = 44 good diviaable by 2 for 22 to the skill
Shockweb (synergy #1) 1+2+2+2+2+2+2+1+10 = 24 goes to 12 for the skill
CB sentry (synergy #2) 1+2+2+2+2+2+2+1+10 = 24 goes to 12 for the skill
lightning sentry (synergy #3) 1+2+2+2+2+2+2+1+10 = 24 goes to 12 for the skill
Death Sentry (synergy #4) 20+2+2+2+2+2+2+1+10 = 43 goes to 21 for the skill
WoF (synergy #5) 20+2+2+2+2+2+1+2+1+10 = 45 goes to 22 for the skill
WoI (synergy #6) 13+2+2+2+2+2+1+2+1+10 = 38 goes to 19 for the skill

So once trained the fireblast will be

Slvl 22+11 = 33 with the following synergies (12+11), (12+11), (12+11), (21+11), (22+11) and (19+11) so 164 slvls worth * 9% or 1476% more damage so from chippydips calculator,

Current Skill Level: 33
Fire Damage: 5744-6847

Your damage with the same build is:
Current Skill Level: 44
Fire Damage: 4128-4816
Mana Cost: 8.3

Now that isn't optimized yet, you can adjust the +2 all skills to +3 traps to gain more on the synergy across the board at the cost of 1 or 2 slvls sometimes you'll be better othertimes worse off. this is where the skiller charms can be exchanged to get the shadow to the right level to divide by 3, better to use 3/3rds than to round down with 2/3rds it can add a skill level to all skills especially if the traps are all odd as well. another thing you can do is get claws that have +3 lightning sentry, +3 deathsentry, +3 WoI and the like to boost their synergies higher. As was said earlier the shadows slvl doesn't differentiate between +skills and hard points. The hard part is getting the warrior to cast the skills rather than use their melee attack.

[ilkori]

I 'm preparing a huge excel file on ASSASSIN MA and TRAPS which calculates everything , synergies dmg, AR, FPA,EIAS, IAS needed to reach breakpoints, attributes points distribution, kick dmg , comparison, all tables ..I need to check some formulas before posting it.That makes two of us. :p

2nd: for Ilkori : Thanks for ur comment but
My trapsin had already 20 in CBS and LS, 0 in MA when I got these +3 BoI claw so I'm still surprised. I could interpret it as when she is choosing the MA path, after MB and some traps laiddown, she tries the highest skill in that tree, and then your explaination is right.Like BIGeyedBUG explained, your +skills count when calculating the skills on the shadow. Good calculations, Uzziah.

BTW, something I've been curious about - when does the "your skill level" get calculated? Is it during the casting of the shadow, or whatever your current equipment allows for. My hunch is towards the initial, but my hunches don't always do what they should. :uhhuh:

[Uzziah]

Good calculations, Uzziah. thanks

BTW, something I've been curious about - when does the "your skill level" get calculated? Is it during the casting of the shadow, or whatever your current equipment allows for. My hunch is towards the initial, but my hunches don't always do what they should. :uhhuh:

It's during casting that the shadows level gets created (just like any summons they can be prebuffed) so you can get 2 claws with +3 shadow warrior, +3 shadow skills for your switch and then have the all famous +3 trap skills, +3/+3/+3 each trap for your main claws boosting the shadows skills even further. I remember getting into the 7k range for the shadow warriors fireblast, but it's hard to get her to use it.

[BIGeyedBUG]

BTW, something I've been curious about - when does the "your skill level" get calculated? Is it during the casting of the shadow, or whatever your current equipment allows for. My hunch is towards the initial, but my hunches don't always do what they should. :uhhuh:

Just a further clarification to what Uzziah said...

While the Shadow level itself is fixed at the time of casting, her skill levels are recalculated every time she uses a skill based on current equipment. In other words, the Shadow slvl/3 part of the equation is a constant, while the xskill slvl/2 can vary as you switch equipment in and out. This can be problematic for the uber-Shadow users, though with the SW you have much more potential for keeping synergy skill levels intact at least.

If that's still not completely clear, let me know.

[ilkori]

Thanks, BeB, it was the skill levels I was wondering about.

Sounds like it's time to cast with +3 Shadow claws and switch to +2 All skills. :D

[Jerion]

boots (no +skills :( )
Don't forget shadow dancers, good skill bonus to your shadow :)

[Uzziah]

Don't forget shadow dancers, good skill bonus to your shadow :)

Considering they are an elite unique and that I only play single player and haven't seen them before, I would not know they carry 1-2 shadow skills :D

Add them in for an extra boost to your shadow.

[zeskelnec]

Thanks, it was clear after I found out how to check back with chippydips calculator.
My maths are quite far away.

When SM is dying , I know it has to rework all the synergies path with a probability of using each skill at 1/28?
Meaning, if I mule or after being disconnected, I loose the work it did .

In the end , if the AI of SM is oriented to the best skills it possesses, it reduces the probability to use the right synergised skill from 1/28 to more decent number. Otherwise, I barely see an interest to use SM as main killer, but much more as a support, betting/hoping it will do something great.

[Uzziah]

Thanks, it was clear after I found out how to check back with chippydips calculator.
My maths are quite far away.

When SM is dying , I know it has to rework all the synergies path with a probability of using each skill at 1/28?
Meaning, if I mule or after being disconnected, I loose the work it did .

In the end , if the AI of SM is oriented to the best skills it possesses, it reduces the probability to use the right synergised skill from 1/28 to more decent number. Otherwise, I barely see an interest to use SM as main killer, but much more as a support, betting/hoping it will do something great.

Why shadow MASTER???

You want your shadow to have specific skills when you train it for using synergies. shadow warrior is far more controlable and a better minion overall especially with fade as an ability. You have alot of +shadow one point in BoS and one in Fade will not hurt and the fade with the +skills will offer far mor protection than your shadow master will get.

Overall, shadow warrior is the far better minion IMHO, it's also able to be used sooner and will be more helpful. The only down fall is it uses your skills only so other skills you don't possess will be wasted.

When "teaching" control is the primary concern.

[Uzziah]

Teaching an Old Shadow New Tricks

Inspired by a this thread in the forums, I decided to create a build where the shadow warrior was built as a bombsin: The shadow is intended to do all the killing but can be supported by the assassin herself, due to the high requirements and the desire to be ridiculously built for damage this build will be made for Bnet. Here includes my ideal setup and plan on how to create such an assassin:

Skills

Shadow Skills
1 Claw Mastery (prereq)
1 Claw Block (prereq)
1 Psychic Hammer (prereq)
1 Cloak of Shadows (prereq) (utility)
1 Boost of Speed (utility)
1 Fade (utility)
20 Shadow Warrior (main skill)
-------------------
total 26 skills

Trap Skills
20 fireblast (main skill)
20 shockweb (main skill)
1 Wake of Fire (synergy)
1 Wake of Inferno (synergy)
1 Charge Bolt Sentry (synergy)
11 Lightning Sentry (synergy)
20 Death Sentry (synergy) (utility)
-------------------
total 74 skills

110 skill points for this method of insanity As This is a preliminary setup until the synergy and skill distribution falls for the equipment the skills will be adjusted and changed as necessary as I continue through this guide. At the end I will give the skill again as they appear for the maximized build.

Equipment step 1

The key equation that we must remember is:

Shadow Warriors Skill Level = Shadow Warrior Level/3 + Character Skill Level/2

This means that the shadows level when cast is very important. Also the Shadow stays with us like a merc so it can be cast and forgotten about until it gets killed. This means *jumps up and down shouting* we can prebuff for a high level shadow. So we will set up 2 sets of equipment for this insane build.

The Prebuff
Otherwise known as how high a slvl can I get my shadow.

Helm- +3 shadow skills circlet
Armor- +2 all skills (Chains of Honor possibly)
Gloves- doesn’t matter no +shadow skills available (from the traps side magefist)
Belt- +1 all skills Arachnid Mesh
Boot- +2 shadow skills Shadow Dancers
Rings- either SoJ or Bul-Kathos' wedding band
Amulet- +3 shadow skills
Claws- +3 shadow skills with +3 shadow warrior (staffmod)
Claws- +3 shadow skills with +3 shadow warrior (staffmod)
Charms- 10 shadow skillers
Charms- 1 anni charm

For a total of:
Shadow Warrior Slvl = 20+3+2+1+2+2+3+3+3+10+1 = 50

Since 50/3 = 36 2/3 you can settle with using a +3 shadow +1 shadow warrior claw if you need to.

Teaching Gear
Otherwise known as teaching traps

Helm- +3 traps circlet
Armor- same as above
Gloves- same as above
Belt- same as above
Boots- same as above
Rings- same as above
Amulet- +3 traps
Claws- +3 traps, +3/3/3 traps skills (most likely LS/DS/WoI)
Claws- +3 traps, +3/3/3 traps skills (most likely LS/DS/WoI)
Charms- 10 trap skillers
Charms- same as above

For a total of:
Fire Blast slvl = 20+3+2+1+1+2+3+3+3+10+1 = 49
Shock Web slvl = 20+3+2+1+2+3+3+3+10+1 = 48
Charge Bolt Sentry slvl = 1+3+2+1+2+3+3+3+10+1 = 29
Lightning Sentry slvl = 11+3+2+1+2+3+6+6+10+1 = 45
Death Sentry slvl = 20+3+2+1+2+3+6+6+10+1 = 54
Wake of Fire slvl = 1+3+2+1+1+2+3+3+3+10+1 = 30
Wake of Inferno slvl = 1+3+2+1+1+2+3+6+6+10+1 = 36

Ok just as a boosting measure change charge bolt sentry to 2 and lightning sentry to 10 on the skills. This sets all trap skills to even numbers and higher numbers.

Begin to Teach
Young Grasshopper needs training.

We get the Shadow Warrior to use the following skills to teach her the synergy level.

Death Sentry slvl = 50/3+54/2 = 43
Lightning Sentry slvl = 50/3+44/2 = 38
Wake of Inferno slvl = 50/3+36/2 = 34
Wake of Fire slvl = 50/3+30/2 = 31
Charge Bolt Sentry slvl = 50/3+30/2 = 31
Shock Web slvl = 50/3+48/2 = 40
Fire Blast slvl = 50/3+49/2 = 40

We need to get shock web and Fire Blast cast in order to synergize themselves.

Fighting Skills

We have 2 main skills and 3 utility skills.

Our main skills will be:

Fire Blast = Slvl 40 with (43+38+34+31+31+40) [for synergies] =
Current Skill Level: 40
Fire Damage: 11650-13662

Shock Web = slvl 40 with (40/3) more missles and (43+38+31) [for synergies] =
Current Skill Level: 40
Spikes: 29
Duration: 3.6 seconds
Lightning Damage: 13-6406 per second

Our utility skills will be:

Death Sentry = slvl 43 with (+13) shots and (38) [for synergies] =
Corpse Explosion Damage: 40-80 percent of corpse Life
Shoots 18 Times
Current Skill Level: 43
Radius: 17.3 yards
Lightning Damage: 5-5715

and CoS, Fade at some level not worth calculating out.

Skills
Shadow Skills
1 Claw Mastery (prereq)
1 Claw Block (prereq)
1 Psychic Hammer (prereq)
1 Cloak of Shadows (prereq) (utility)
1 Boost of Speed (utility)
1 Fade (utility)
20 Shadow Warrior (main skill)
-------------------
total 26 skills

Trap Skills
20 fireblast (main skill)
20 shockweb (main skill)
1 Wake of Fire (synergy)
1 Wake of Inferno (synergy)
2 Charge Bolt Sentry (synergy)
10 Lightning Sentry (synergy)
20 Death Sentry (synergy) (utility)
-------------------
total 74 skills

[Uzziah]

Now that I have worked all that out, I believe I can safely say that the Shadow warrior can do more damage with her skills than the assassin herself can deal. It's possible but very very unlikely.

It would be an unbelievable build and would require having little to no space to carry the items you find, but it would really be worthwhile for the WTF comments :D

[zeskelnec]

I'm really impressed. Such a build would be tremendous.
I noticed your prefered to max shock web (for the spikes synergy with FB) which ends with 29 spikes and 6K dmg.NICE when I see the poor effect I have at lvl 18.
Have you tried to calculate Lightning sentry max with so many +skill items. It may allow the SW to lay them down before using the huge FB dmg.

I would also like very much to build such a SW but I'm so far from having all of these gears that my SW would barely get +6-8 skills

To reply to your previous comment, why a SM, because my built was made to spawn it at lvl 17 with all rare equipment. And mainly, because as a support, I did not want the Swarrior to lay down traps overlapping the 5 powerful LS.

In conclusion I could say that with this Teaching Build, you'll become a true MASTER.

[Uzziah]

I chose to maximize shock web for 2 reasons
it gets much larger with the 39 level synergy from fireblast
Death Sentries will be your sentry of choice and will be placed at 3-4 per area and monster most likely, also death sentries at that level will be huge radius wise and will be able to effect 2.5-3 screens away.

Not to mention you can keep shockweb on your left mouse and fireblast on your right or vice versa. Sentries are stuck on your right mouse only.

PS lightning sentry with that build is already at 1-14768, if you maximize it further you can get what maybe another 3000.

[zeskelnec]

I tried to find tables with effect values of skill above lvl 30 for LOD 1.10
Arreat summit gives the values up to slvl 20. I could find values for some assassin skills in another post up to lvl 30 but I have doubts on their accuracy. I even noticed minor differences between chippydips and arreat summit values.

In another way, chippydips may have a way to calculate dmg for FB at 40, but generally the increase in dmg is not linear (not talking of the synergies at 9% /lvl).
Would you have such references , I would like to include them in my SYNerg AssassinTraps/martial excel calculator
Thanks

[Uzziah]

I tried to find tables with effect values of skill above lvl 30 for LOD 1.10
Arreat summit gives the values up to slvl 20. I could find values for some assassin skills in another post up to lvl 30 but I have doubts on their accuracy. I even noticed minor differences between chippydips and arreat summit values.

In another way, chippydips may have a way to calculate dmg for FB at 40, but generally the increase in dmg is not linear (not talking of the synergies at 9% /lvl).
Would you have such references , I would like to include them in my SYNerg AssassinTraps/martial excel calculator
Thanks

chippy dips calculator uses the games formula for damage, the only real problem with it is the little number on lightning based skills since the game codes it as 1-xxx and chippy dips allows it to go to XX-xxxxx which in the formula would be correct.

From experience and from others word of mouth, chippy dip is acurate through atleast slvl 40 with that amount of acuracy I believe that it has enough points to warrant a formula worth using for the values on this build. Even non-linear growth has a formula of some sort since there is not table set anywhere in the diablo files for skills. In simple terms 1 formula is much more space effiecent than a huge table, thus they can save space for graphics and storyline.

Using the formulas in excel or a similar process is exactly what chippy dips calculator does. Maybe you should shoot him an email and ask him nicely about the formula for the skills themselves. Or you could extrapulate the formula from slvl 20-30 from your charts and use that to give a value way out there.

I am sure you can graph out from chippy dips to get a formula that is atleast close in numbers.


edit: Oh and if you want to match Arreats numbers with chippy dips you must add 1 skill point in each prerequirement. Those low level synergies really screw your number up in arreats summit.

[zeskelnec]

I sent an email to d2items support .. looking forward their answer.

[MonsterSlayer]

so you could actually stand in town in duel games and let your shadow create havoc and chaos right outside of town? Just to be cheap? :p

[zeskelnec]

It makes me dreaming of building a SW based on Martial Arts synergies.


I'll prepare my maths according to your way of presenting things for an easier comparison with same gear.

The only thing I regret in your guide : As I never trade, I'm sometimes muling when it's getting hard with pure equipment, I may never get as many +skills items as you got. So I will add in my guide values with fairly easy attainable +skill lvls.
Secondly, where is the threshold in +skill items where your SW becomes a real advantage?.

I'll have:
Ort Sol helm :+1 all
Ammu : +1 all
Gloves: +2 MA (I found some last weekend) or Magefist for the +1 Fire skill
one Bartucs: +2 all , +1 MA
2nd Claws : +2 MA or + 2 Shadow (X2 on switch )

So, +9 to MA and +8 to Shadow are easy to get. Let's say it will be the minimum requirements.

One little minor thing: in this thread, your 1st calculation in WoI should be 37 for a resulting 18 and a total of 163 slvls /1467%. Sorry

[Uzziah]

The only thing I regret in your guide : As I never trade, I'm sometimes muling when it's getting hard with pure equipment, I may never get as many +skills items as you got. So I will add in my guide values with fairly easy attainable +skill lvls.
Secondly, where is the threshold in +skill items where your SW becomes a real advantage?.

This build was imagined there is no way in Hell I could get the gear needed for this build, especially since I play single player. I am not sure where the +skills start to overcome the natural ability, I do know that without the switching of skill charms the SW skills drop nearly in 2.

One little minor thing: in this thread, your 1st calculation in WoI should be 37 for a resulting 18 and a total of 163 slvls /1467%. Sorry

I checked it again and got 36 with the magefist providing the extra 1 over the charge bolt sentry to make it even and with the extra skill levels from the staffmods. (like I said before anyone able to get their hands on those claws? I didn't think so either, so this build is fictional, and the most Godly setup).

Even if it were 37 the resulting synergy would be the same since the game always rounds down.

EDIT: reread your statement you are refering to my first equations which yes they do add to 37 but the death sentry adds to 43 and has natural skill points that could be rearranged (I think I did that in my head but didn't change my equations so you would place 19 in Death Sentry and 14 in WoI and get the values I got in that example.

[zeskelnec]

I entered your Guide build in an excel sheet, to calculate the sum of synergies rapidly, it's fine. Indeed the switch between traps and Shadow GC skillers, helmet may be not fun to play. But the point is not here.

I noticed a minor inconsistency in chippydips.
If you enter each skill value (FB 40, SW 40, DS 43, ....) you end up with 11650-13662 dmg with FB.
What I did was to check only FB lvl at 40, the rest of skill at 0 giving 567-665 FB dmg * (216 synergies*9% +1) it gives 11590-13593. It is minor but as I could not fall on the same values as yours I needed to find out.

In the end, what everyone reading this thread can see is the SW may be monstruously powerful compared to an assassin
Assassin FB 49 + SYn 54*9/100 = 4852-5637 Dmg
SWarrior FB 40 + Syn 216*9/100 = 11650-13662 Dmg

With much decent +skills items like
+all (helmet ort sol, 2 Soj, 1 ammu, 1 bartuc): 6
+traps on left claw : 3
+ shadow on switch claw :6
+Fire on Gloves : 1

the assassin gives FB 1623-1963
the SW gives FB 1809-2267, still better bombasin.....

Assassin is not a dangerous work.......with a SW.

[phool]

I tried to find tables with effect values of skill above lvl 30 for LOD 1.10
Arreat summit gives the values up to slvl 20. I could find values for some assassin skills in another post up to lvl 30 but I have doubts on their accuracy. I even noticed minor differences between chippydips and arreat summit values.


If I understand u correctly, u might like to try this skills calculator:

EDIT by Naliworld: Link deleted. Chippydip's calculator is hosted on a site which sells dupes for real money, so it's not allowed to be linked here.

[Uzziah]

If I understand u correctly, u might like to try this skills calculator:

Edit link deleted -uzziah

hey fool I mean phool you can not link to that because its on a competing website.


Also 43+38+34+31+31+40 = 217 not 216 so for your equation it would be fb damage *(217*.09+1) or damage * 2053%

And this is what chippydips give with your 216 number.
Fire Damage: 11599-13602 its probably off due to a slight rounding error in the equations. But 9/11599 is miniscule.

[Abroz]

THis seems like an interesting build, but some of your calculations are flawed. Synergies only work with hard points put into the skills. Therefore, your lvl 43, 54, 49, etc etc synergies are only worth the amount of skill points you put in, so 20 max. So, figure out damage without using +skills for synergies and you will get the actual damage.

[BIGeyedBUG]

Synergies only work with hard points put into the skills.

That is certainly true (most of the time) for players, but it doesn't seem to be the case with the two shadows.

[zeskelnec]

THis seems like an interesting build, but some of your calculations are flawed. Synergies only work with hard points put into the skills. Therefore, your lvl 43, 54, 49, etc etc synergies are only worth the amount of skill points you put in, so 20 max. So, figure out damage without using +skills for synergies and you will get the actual damage.

Read the full thread. Shadows use the overall amount of points to build synergies.