hardcore hammerdin

[baron_grim112]

HAMMERDIN

STATS
Str-70
Dex-120
Vit-the rest
Nrg-15

SKILLS
20 Blessed Hammer
20 Concentration
20 Blessed Aim
20 Vigor
20 Holy Shield
1 Redemption
1 Salvation
1 Meditation
1 Defiance
1 Holy Bolt
1 Might
1 Prayer
1 Cleansing
1 Smite
1 Charge

ITEMS
Harlequin Crest (Um)
Maras Kaleidoscope
Shaftstop (Um)
Wizardspike
Herald of Zakarum (Shael)
Magefist
Ravenfrost
Verdungo's Hearty Cord
Stone of Jordan
Sandstorm Trek

this is my blueprint, if any changes culd b made to improve this char plz tell me. Also, i have a few questions:
1. How important is 50% dmg reduce in hardcore?
2. Is it worth giving up arachs and que hegans to achieve max dmg reduce?
3. How will this char perform in hell difficulty?

[Full_Circle]

1. How important is 50% dmg reduce in hardcore?
It's nice to have, but not so important that I'd use Shaftstop.

2. Is it worth giving up arachs and que hegans to achieve max dmg reduce?
No... Rather than using Que-Hegan's, I'd go for an Up'd Viper or GA. I would definitely use Arach unless you have a major life problem, which you shouldn't.

3. How will this char perform in hell difficulty?
Very well indeed.

A few minor changes I would make to gear... all personal preference, of course... what you've got will work:

Harlequin Crest (Um) [good]
Maras Kaleidoscope [good]
Shaftstop (Um) [Up'd Viper - Um/PRuby depending on needs]
Wizardspike [good]
Herald of Zakarum (Shael) [PDiamond or Um - Shael in a shield does nothing if you're using Holy Shield, iirc]
Magefist [Trang's]
Ravenfrost [10% FCR ring (I think you need one for the top FCR breakpoint with the gear I've listed)]
Verdungo's Hearty Cord [Arach]
Stone of Jordan [good]
Sandstorm Trek [Aldur's]

edit: probably a bit overkill on resists... oh well

[baron_grim112]

shuld the zak be up'd? or wuld it make str req 2 high?

culd u also tell me wat the next break point is past 75 4 faster cast rate?

and finally, wuld it hurt more than benfit to switch zak 2 stormshiled? (stormshield is always my personal preference with chars other than pallys)

[Aerath]

wuld it hurt to try and type words fully ?

I'd probably go for the Upped Viper indeed. Your exact socketing requirements may vary... You might already have maxed res, in which case a PRuby or even a Shael might be a more welcome addition.

You can always toss the (upped) Shaft on your merc.

Upping the zak would be a waste of Runes and strength.

You get nothing out of it - with a bit of bad luck you might even end up with a lower defense on it. It's only advisable for Smiters for the increased damage.

[PhatTrumpet]

FCR breakpoints are 75 and 125.

Meditation is completely useless. Most people in your party that need it will already have an 'Insight' Merc, and you yourself will never need it because Redemption is 1000 times better.

It appears you've got access to just about anything you could possibly need, and Wizzy/Viper can be a bit overkill on resists. I'd either go Wizzy/GA or HotO/Viper... just a personal preference.

Boots will either be Treks or Waterwalks, depending on what you want. I wouldn't bother with Aldur's.

Stick with HoZ, as is. Throw your Um rune in here and save one of the other holes (helm and armor) until you know exactly how your resists are going to look in Hell.

I've never been a huge fan of Arach. Snarko + Dungo's would get you up near 25% DR, which is good.

[Tai.]

Shako
Wiz
Guardian Angel
Trang's
Fcr/res/mana ring
Dwarf
TGod's
HoZ
Mara's
Waterwalks

was what i used on my pally, cheap setup and VERY durable, 90/95 all res in hell, max block, absorb in fire/light and hit the fcr bp.

his damage was decent, could have been much higher, but i didbnt bother tossing hoto on him, as i would have had to go down to 75/80 all res in hell to hit the bp with it.

with my setup, the most str heavy item is guardian angel at 118 iirc, but you get strength from both hoz and tgods, so its a very reachable amount, leaving lots of points for vitality.

cheers
-tai

[rawrj]

i thought with holy shield that that the fcr bp were lowered ???

just i thoguht it was

[Valar-Wrath]

i thought with holy shield that that the fcr bp were lowered ???

just i thoguht it was

No, Holy Shield improves defense and blocking. Has nothing to do with fcr.

And if you could get a hoto I'd switch that out for wizzy. Here's what my setup was/would be:

Snarko-Um
Up'd Viper-Um
Hoto
Hoz-Pdiamond or Um
Arach
Waterwalks
Magefists
2x fcr/str/resists rings
Seraphs-without maras you should still have maxed resists and seraphs can add a total of +4 to some of your skills. That, and it's a whole lot cheaper.

With this setup you achieve the highest fcr bp I believe.

[Bullet-Tooth Tony]

Holy shield improves blocking rate to 2 frames with no FBR and 1 frame w 86%. I don't think there's a reason to specificaly look for this BP, though.
The last cast BP is 125% for 9 frames. Valar-Wrath's last setup seems to acheive it: 40 (HotO)+20(Archanid)+20(Magefists)+30(Viper)+20 (dual FCR rings). Though people say that 125% FCR can really be useful only in PvP - to teleport as fast as possible. I think 10 frames is optimal for PvM.
From my hammerdin experience I can tell that if you can't afford Call to Arms on switch, a +Redemtion scepter there can be useful. Anyway, there's nothing really useful on switch you can have for a Hammerdin, if there's no CtA. But scepter gives you an easy way to get full mana after battle with no skillpoints used on Redemtion.

[Valar-Wrath]

Though people say that 125% FCR can really be useful only in PvP - to teleport as fast as possible. I think 10 frames is optimal for PvM.

Don't forget that you'll also be casting hammers at a faster frame rate. As it is not needed, it is helpful. And you don't really sacrifice any gear to achieve it.

[HCTwinJava]

Shako
Wiz
Guardian Angel
Trang's
Fcr/res/mana ring
Dwarf
TGod's
HoZ
Mara's
Waterwalks

was what i used on my pally, cheap setup and VERY durable, 90/95 all res in hell, max block, absorb in fire/light and hit the fcr bp.

his damage was decent, could have been much higher, but i didbnt bother tossing hoto on him, as i would have had to go down to 75/80 all res in hell to hit the bp with it.

with my setup, the most str heavy item is guardian angel at 118 iirc, but you get strength from both hoz and tgods, so its a very reachable amount, leaving lots of points for vitality.

cheers
-tai


if you replace mara's with seraph's or any +2 or +3combat amulet you get by chance or trade, your gear would be among the best and cheapest known to me.

Since your FR is probably already 95% in Hell, Dwarf becomes overkill if you use waterwalks. if you use treks, you can lower the gear's str req. to 66 or below at the cost of lowering your FR to 90%. If possible, I would swap out Wiz for Hoto and try to get 5% FCR by replacing Dwarf or from a decent ammy - then, HOTO, or VEX, or 2x GUL would be my most expensive investment for this char.

So the final budget gear would be like:

Shako
Wiz [HOTO better, though 5% extra FCR & extra resists would be needed]
Guardian Angel
Trang's [or magefist]
TGod's
HoZ
1x FCR ring
Waterwalks [treks sightly better]
2nd ring: open
ammy: open

[baron_grim112]

this information has been extremely helpful to me and i have created my final (i hope) build:

HAMMERDIN

MERCENARY
ACT 2 Nightmare Defensive

STATS
Str-100
Dex-120
Vit-the rest
Nrg-15

SKILLS
20 Blessed Hammer
20 Concentration
20 Blessed Aim
20 Vigor
20 Holy Shield
1 Redemption
1 Salvation
1 Meditation
1 Defiance
1 Holy Bolt
1 Might
1 Prayer
1 Cleansing
1 Smite
1 Charge

ITEMS
Harlequin Crest (Um)
Seraph's Hymn
"Up'd" Skin of the Vipermagi (Um)
Wizardspike
Herald of Zakarum (Um)
Magefist
Ravenfrost
Arachnid Mesh
FCR Ring
Sandstorm Trek

i tried to take the best mix of what everyone was saying. I got max resists in hell, max block, enough strength to get even better equip, a dr of 10% (better than none) and i also made sure to get 125% fcr. about the equip... it was tough to choose and everybody differed so i tried my best to stick with what i planned on having. Everyone thank you very much for the input!

[Valar-Wrath]

Looks good. I don't agree with the defensive merc though. I'd get a holy freeze one. But that's just a matter of pure opinion.

[PhatTrumpet]

Looks good. I don't agree with the defensive merc though. I'd get a holy freeze one. But that's just a matter of pure opinion.
Act 2 Nightmare Defensive and Holy Freeze are one in the same, noobslice. :p


There are still a few things I don't quite understand:

1. The point in Meditation.
2. Still using Magefists instead of Trang's (not a big deal, but just about everyone suggested this).
3. 120 dex is way too much. Did you use a block calculator? Either way, it's usually best to just keep an eye on your chance to block as you progress by simply hovering over your mouse over the defense in your character stats screen. Once you equip the HoZ, each time you level up simply add enough points in dex to keep your chance to block at 75% with Holy Shield on, then put the remaining points in vit (assuming you already have your end-game str).
4. Automatically throwing Um runes into everything. 15(Shako) + 50(Viper) + 75(Wizzy) + 77(HoZ) + 30(Anya) = 247 which is way more than the 175 you need in Hell. Stacking resists like that is foolish on a Paladin when you can just switch on Salvation whenever you want. You'll want to seriously reconsider your socketing options here.
5. Enough str for even better gear? What better gear? You've got a really nice setup going, why waste points in str for gear that you don't have and probably will never use? I'd strongly suggest calculating exactly how much str you need to equip your heaviest item with all your +str gear on, and just leave it there.

The blocking formula, in case you were wondering, is:

[chance to block] = [shield blocking] * (dex - 15) / (clvl * 2)


You know, there is such a thing as too much pre-planning...

[rawrj]

1. The point in Meditation

clears up throne, so on second wave the minon dont revive any souls or dolls and gives you mana and life back.

2. Still using Magefists instead of Trang's (not a big deal, but just about everyone suggested this).

personal choice

. Automatically throwing Um runes into everything. 15(Shako) + 50(Viper) + 75(Wizzy) + 77(HoZ) + 30(Anya) = 247 which is way more than the 175 you need in Hell. Stacking resists like that is foolish on a Paladin when you can just switch on Salvation whenever you want. You'll want to seriously reconsider your socketing options here.

now if he gets engima he can swap the armor and still have max resists

[PhatTrumpet]

clears up throne, so on second wave the minon dont revive any souls or dolls and gives you mana and life back.
Meditation is the poofy cloudy aura. Redemption is the red spirally aura you're thinking of.
personal choice
Like I said, not a big deal. Trang's have some cold resist while Magefists have nothing (mana regen is rather moot).
now if he gets engima he can swap the armor and still have max resists
Putting aside my distain for duped runes and their products, he'd still have another Um rune too much socketed (247-50=197). I would just go ahead and throw a PTopaz in the Snarko.

[Tai.]

Regarding Dwarf as my ring choice, I would switch it and raven on and off, sometimes throwing on a life/mf/mana ring i had, but being able to tank fe's was very important to me, I'm sure i could have done without it, but with the fire absorb and 95 res, i was basically fire immune, same with lightning from tgods.

If i'd found another FCR ring I liked enough, I would've tossed a HoTO on him, but really didnt feel the need to, he was cheap to build/replace if he died, and my Windy was enjoying the HoTO immensely.

Meditation is indeed a waste unless you have a cold sorc in your party who's popping all corpses so you cant redeem them, but it just seems such an inelegant solution to the problem.

Cleansing
Concentration
Vigor
Salvation
Defiance
Charge
Redemption

Seems to me that you'd have enough hotkeys in use without meditation being thrown into the mix, but that's just my preference

Cheers
-tai

[Baranor]

no caster needs more than 100 str, regardless of what you say about stormshields. never had it, never missed it.

[Bullet-Tooth Tony]

Don't forget that you'll also be casting hammers at a faster frame rate. As it is not needed, it is helpful. And you don't really sacrifice any gear to achieve it.
I don't really agree that you don't sacrifice equipment for it. You can achieve 75% with 3 only slots of equipment - weapon, gloves, belt. Not much good non-FCR weapons, gloves or belts to use on Hammerdin anyway.
But if you want 125% you must use some of slots for armor, rings, amulet, shield, and possibly use Wizzy instead of HotO (which means loss in +skills and dexturity). There are lots of good options there, if you don't care about 1 less frame.
Regarding Dwarf as my ring choice, I would switch it and raven on and off, sometimes throwing on a life/mf/mana ring i had, but being able to tank fe's was very important to me
As far as I remember, FE damage is half fire, half physical. You almost nulify the fire part with 95 resistance, so what's the point in completely removing it, if you still have the unresisted physical part?

[Valar-Wrath]

Act 2 Nightmare Defensive and Holy Freeze are one in the same, noobslice.

Whoopsie. I was thinking a DEFIANCE merc and holy freeze merc. Not defense and holy freeze. My bad.

And I agree, he should go with trangs instead of magefists.

@Tony-True it requires more slots to hit the 125 bp but let's see what he sacrifices.

Wiz spike-He was going to use this anyway.

Magefists or Trangs-There aren't any uber gloves in this game anyway and nobody has suggested anything better. So still, he's not missing anything.

Arachnid-Uhm, best caster belt in the game.

FCR Ring-He could be missing out on an soj and let's say he is. That's 1 skill he sacrifices.

That equals a total of +1 skill he misses out on if he wants to spam hammers at a faster speed. Not sure if it effects charges for teleport, but if it does, that's another plus.

So more hammers/faster tele(?) VS. +1 skill

That's why I'd go for the 125 bp.

[HCTwinJava]

Str-100
Dex-120


you don't know your actual end-game gear, so ~120 BASE dex looks okay, though the less the better.

but 100 base str? even if you have SS and want to use it, or want to use UP'ed HoZ (no good to you), you don't need 100 base str! ~75 is really the highest base str a hammerdin should ever go. Assume you can get the runes for making Enigma: if so, you can forget all about your base str!

Well, on the other hand, 25 to 75 base str or 100 won't make a huge difference. You'd waste only up to 75 stat points = loss of up to 150 base hit points.



1 Meditation



any pt in Meditation is a pure waste. you can either get it for free (from Insight or other pally), or just drink a pot occasionally. BTW, unless you have several cold sorcs around, only a necro spamming CE/revive can really make your Redemp impossible to use. But that's the time when blue pots are good for you.

Again, on the other hand, no big deal: just 1 skill pt waste.



20 Holy Shield


Too many. To a hammerdian, the most significant difference between 20 Holy Shield and 10 is duration. After that is defense if you wear high-defense gear. If you aim to reach 20 with your gear, that'd be a lot better: a potential saving of some 10 skill pts. Which means putting 1 in Med would be "affordable" if you really want (I doubt) to use Med instead of Redemp/pots.


On the other hand, when you count 110 skill pts, the saved ~10 skill pts will probably have no other better place to put in.



i tried to take the best mix of what everyone was saying. I got max resists in hell, max block, enough strength to get even better equip, a dr of 10% (better than none) and i also made sure to get 125% fcr. about the equip...


I hope your guy will survive the attack of ~10 blackest souls, combined with some melee and some piercing magic attacks, which is not unusual in Hell act3/4/5, especially act5. - Very hard for this guy. He may die quickly. good luck!

[Valar-Wrath]

I hope your guy will survive the attack of ~10 blackest souls, combined with some melee and some piercing magic attacks, which is not unusual in Hell act3/4/5, especially act5. - Very hard for this guy. He may die quickly. good luck!

I know from experience that if played right, this pally should do fine. Why should this character be any worse off against souls, melee, and piercing magic attacks than any other character?

[HCTwinJava]

I know from experience that if played right, this pally should do fine. Why should this character be any worse off against souls, melee, and piercing magic attacks than any other character?

No, no worse than most others. that's not what the words you quoted meant.

by xp, in a Hell ladder game, nasty souls (if tightly packed, and if combined with melee/piercing magic by other nasty monsters) can kill such a char pretty quickly. of course, he'll do his best to avoid that. And he'll survive easily almost all the time (this is HC, anyway), while he may also die quickly (because of HC!). That's why I would hestitate to use that caster belt, or would look for a wisp if the FCR is really needed (as I heard, for the exact same reason a nice wisp could be really expensive in trade).

[Tai.]

It's all your call as to what bp you go to, I was always content with hitting 75 fcr, as with no lag i could spam hammers fast enough that with help and holy freeze from my merc, my casting wouldnt get interrupted, the only real advantage i see to going to 125 is so you can get monsters in a hammer lock.

if you go to 125 though and you hit some lag, you wont be casting hammers, and since you require hammer spamming to keep monsters pinned and yourself safe, you'll be in trouble as you're trading a little safety for more killing speed.

just my opinion, but in hc i ALWAYS put safety above speed.

I don't know whether 125 will allow you to stop snakes in midcharge, havent tested it, if itll allow you to cast fast enough that they cant get through, then id consider having a switch that got me to 125 for a2 hell ( i strongly dislike claw vipers =[ )

cheers
-tai

[PhatTrumpet]

Just a side note, if you intend to run Baal with this guy, a little Lightning Absorb is really important. TGods is the most effective way to get this (makes you immune to all pure lightning attacks), and Wisp would be the other option.

[Valar-Wrath]

Just a side note, if you intend to run Baal with this guy, a little Lightning Absorb is really important. TGods is the most effective way to get this (makes you immune to all pure lightning attacks), and Wisp would be the other option.

Yes, I'd say keep a Tgods handy for places you know are filled with gloams and the like. That's the only ~unsafe~ thing about hitting the 125 bp in my opinion. But that can easily be compensated with a Tgods or wisp. So you can have the best of both worlds. :)

Edit: I also think that people make gloams out to be worse than they are. Unless their is a huge conviction boss pack, they never seemed to bother me all that much. Snakes pissed me off way more than silly gloams.

[HCTwinJava]

It's all your call as to what bp you go to, I was always content with hitting 75 fcr, as with no lag i could spam hammers fast enough that with help and holy freeze from my merc, my casting wouldnt get interrupted, the only real advantage i see to going to 125 is so you can get monsters in a hammer lock.

if you go to 125 though and you hit some lag, you wont be casting hammers, and since you require hammer spamming to keep monsters pinned and yourself safe, you'll be in trouble as you're trading a little safety for more killing speed.

just my opinion, but in hc i ALWAYS put safety above speed.

I don't know whether 125 will allow you to stop snakes in midcharge, havent tested it, if itll allow you to cast fast enough that they cant get through, then id consider having a switch that got me to 125 for a2 hell ( i strongly dislike claw vipers =[ )

cheers
-tai


i guess i'd have to side with tai again.

the decision is yours. that said, my opinion is:

- if you don't use Enigam, 75% is really all you'd ever need in HC (or on HCL) - this way, you'd be able to *significantly* boost the durability of your hammerdin. Look at your currently intended gear: probably only cold dmg can't kill him.

- if you use Enigma and if you really want to take advantage of it, I'd STRONGLY recommend 125% - why? The whole purpose of using engima is teleport (the str/MF/skill/etc bonuses are all secondary for regular game play). without 9 fpc your tele would be really awkward (and very unsafe) in many places from Hell act2 up.


if i read correctly, tai's hammer guy did not have an enigma - i guess that's why he would recommend 75%. others recommending 125%, i guess, is perhaps more or less related to their knowledge or experience about those enigmatized hammerdins.