BvC ammy: good rare/craft vs highlords

[72_5]

Any opinions on using say an ammy with close to these mods: 2 baba skills 7% dual leech, 20 vita, 20 fire cold psn res and 49 lite res (some may have seen an ammy very similar to these stats before ;) ) vs highlords?

[dkay]

id choose highlords since ds = faster kill. anyways the only useful mods on that ammy is the slight life boost. resist dont really matter much because barbs should have max resist in hell with even some stack anyways.

[Taz]

Ll, ml are useless in pvp, in rest is preety close to Mara`s (skills, stats, rezists), if u have high %ds (eDC, gores) is a better option than Highlord`s. Other than that, Highlord`s is better.

[Zangeif]

On USEast we have:

+2 barb
10 frw
19 str
20 dex
59 life
57 mana

I would still use Highlord's

[Darknicrofia]

Any opinions on using say an ammy with close to these mods: 2 baba skills 7% dual leech, 20 vita, 20 fire cold psn res and 49 lite res (some may have seen an ammy very similar to these stats before ;) ) vs highlords?

hmmmm, now where have i seen that before lol, yea, use highlords, personally, i think the stats on highlords are better than the stats on gore riders, use it to your advantage

[72_5]

Heh, the ammy I mentioned is on east.

Edit: forgot to say: yes i will use highlords :)

[luis19]

highlords, if anyone tells you otherwise, slap them.

ex. recently someone told me my barb was noob cuase i used highlords. reasoning: the east duped barb ammys (like the one listed previously) is worth more than highlords.
too bad his dmg suxed without highlords so he got gg'ed by all the good casters while it was the otherway around for me.

[morotsjos]

highlords, if anyone tells you otherwise, slap them.

ex. recently someone told me my barb was noob cuase i used highlords. reasoning: the east duped barb ammys (like the one listed previously) is worth more than highlords.
too bad his dmg suxed without highlords so he got gg'ed by all the good casters while it was the otherway around for me.
Pfft, I'm noob since I use one 18 dex raven, arach (LOLOL ARACH ON BARB/LOLOL CANT AFFORD BUGBELT??), 407% botd (LOLOL 407 BOTD CANT AFFORD BETTER?) and 152% def arreats (like def matters in bvc... ).
Gogo iq<70...

Edit: Yay, 600 posts, time to stop ^^

[Dad Daniel]

I think 2barbskill/30str/20dex/20all res/tele charges amulet is >>>>>> than the mere Higlord.

[luis19]

you are wrong. :lol:

but really you are.
33%Deadly Strike > all those mods for a barb. period.

[Dad Daniel]

you are wrong. :lol:

but really you are.
33%Deadly Strike > all those mods for a barb. period.

Some people are OW adicted, other about the deadly strike, but there is no point to go over some quantities on them. They simply work enough frequetly even on lower numbers.
Besides your statement have no grounds, if the barb has already chance of doing double damage over 56%.

[luis19]

without highlords, you're physical dmg will be too low.
ow oriented dual wield barbs do nearly the same dmg as rends barbs, diff is using dracs over rends.
in that case highlords will work just as well with an OW build. fury/beast single wield builds are a different story, but vs casters/all you need to only use botd or grief + beast.

and 33% ds is far more effective than 1+ more skill, +stats/resist could ever do for a barb considering that your life is already high and resists are easily maxed/stacked with a barb. also i believe the 20ias on highlords allows you to reach the last breakpoint for zerk which is very useful and fun. even if you already have ds/cs, adding highlords will drastically improve your killing speed.

ex - assuming 22% CS from skill, and only ds from gores (setup is botd/beast, nigma, arch, dracs)
that leaves you with: .298 chance of double dmg

however if you add highlords that brings ur chance of double dmg to: .5554 chance of double dmg


in otherwords your statement has no grounds. having that much ds already on a barb doesnt mean more wont do anything. run the numbers, adding 33% more deadly will increase your chance quite a bit. and how did you come up with that number anyways.

[Dad Daniel]

Maybe i am a little bit "adicted" too, but in my case - about the ETH Death cleaver in the PvP fights. :D
I prefer it than the BotD (not only because the price), but i actually have more thrust in %deadly strike coming from my source of damage (the weapon), not from my boots for example...
Ant i concluded this percentage from the experience with my old sc bowazon - she was with 10 lvl critical strike (56 %) and she was doing double damage significantly more often than once from 2 hits (as i remmember maybe 4 from 5 is more accurate). Maybe this is a bug, but now even not maxing my DC i like the way my barb hits with not so high numbers.
I think only the Crushing blow needs really big numbers to work.... (this is sugestion coming from my game experience).

[luis19]

observed values can be extremely scewed (as in your case) if you do not how how things work.

ds/cs work the same regardless if they are on weapon or off weapon, they just add up differently.
ie. if you have 22 critical and 10 ds, you have 22 chance of critical then a 78% chance of 10% ds.

cb isnt that useful for pvp, its only somewhat effective vs high life builds and for say taking the last silver of life on a ES sorc.

also % work as they are listed. if its 20% to do something, its 20%, not something else just becasue you dont see it 20% of the time every time.

[arbing]

HIGHLORD OWNS that crafted/ duped ammy period.
30+ deadly strike>>>>>>>>>>> all those other mods.......
resist can be easily maxed by a barb. the extra +skills is not that important either.

[Dad Daniel]

observed values can be extremely scewed (as in your case) if you do not how how things work.

ds/cs work the same regardless if they are on weapon or off weapon, they just add up differently.
ie. if you have 22 critical and 10 ds, you have 22 chance of critical then a 78% chance of 10% ds.

cb isnt that useful for pvp, its only somewhat effective vs high life builds and for say taking the last silver of life on a ES sorc.

also % work as they are listed. if its 20% to do something, its 20%, not something else just becasue you dont see it 20% of the time every time.
Actually i know pretty well the correct formula - it is well explained in the Arreat summit.
Officially deadly strike from everywhere on your gear is equal, but i have some information that DS on weapons is calculated as CS from skill (simply adding to you CS%!!). I don't know that is this true, but some my friends are sure about that.

[luis19]

its not true. so yeah, highlords pwnts rares bad. very badly.

[mcm]

Actually luis, if you had a rare ammy w/ lots of tele charges (i think the max is 30ish charges, so its not so plausible), you could wear Fortitude and that would be MUCH better than enigma/highlords, at least while you still had tele charges...

1) Free teleport
2) 25% fcr from fort = 9 frame cast w/ arach and rings
3) 300% ED from fort > 33% DS, since 300% ed would make up around 1/3 of the barbs total ED, and especially so if you already have DS from other gear (boots, weapon) and a good level mastery (CS).
4) 30% resist all more
5) Way more defense

[mcm]

observed values can be extremely scewed (as in your case) if you do not how how things work.

ds/cs work the same regardless if they are on weapon or off weapon, they just add up differently.
ie. if you have 22 critical and 10 ds, you have 22 chance of critical then a 78% chance of 10% ds.

cb isnt that useful for pvp, its only somewhat effective vs high life builds and for say taking the last silver of life on a ES sorc.

also % work as they are listed. if its 20% to do something, its 20%, not something else just becasue you dont see it 20% of the time every time.

The way you say that is misleading:

You have a chance to perform CS, for a barb this is the chance listed in your mastery. If you DO NOT perform CS, then you have a chance to perform DS, the sum of all DS properties from the items you use.

Quad damage is not possible, though what you said implies that it is.

[luis19]

bah u know what i mean, its in the faq too.
also i realized i only counted 10 DS from gores.

and a tele ammy woudlnt be that good, someone could exploit that and play defensive till you're low on charges. also if you're out of gold u gotta switch back to nigma.

[Omikron8]

With blizzard's neutering of life/mana leech in pvp, and fixing of the barb masteries bug, highlords is THE absolute best COMBAT (not thinking about singer barbs) barb ammy in d2, whether it be pvm or pvp.

[luis19]

cept in bvb in most situations where angelics would be better.

[morotsjos]

cept in bvb in most situations where angelics would be better.
Oh yeah, is it really better for damage-based bvb-builds (i.e. grief+fort) or does highlords give better damage in the end? I.e. how much less chance to hit do you have with 2x ravens instead of angelics?

[luis19]

i dunno, i never played a true bvb barb before.
my barb has really really low def in bvb gear so i use angelics to compensate for the amount of hits i take.
also the dmg to mana helps, and could save you since some matches last forever and use alot of mana.
the life boost and life rep help too.

[rikstaker]

In BVB,Loooong duels+high defense opponent makes ar really important,Hitting more often instead of harder works well,higher cth means better chance to trigger ow,especially important for dmg based builds with 35%-68% ow. So angelics>highlords for all builds whether dmg or ow.

Rik

[luis19]

for bvb, you mean.
joo is teh noobar rik ok

[rikstaker]

for bvb, you mean.
joo is teh noobar rik ok

Fool.. :D


In BVB......for all builds whether dmg or ow.

Rik

[morotsjos]

In BVB,Loooong duels+high defense opponent makes ar really important,Hitting more often instead of harder works well,higher cth means better chance to trigger ow,especially important for dmg based builds with 35%-68% ow. So angelics>highlords for all builds whether dmg or ow.

Rik
I buy that. Just had to ask in case someone had bothered with the calcs =)


luis: How does your new (fullscreen leap) barb do in bvb? How much less defense do you have compared to your old build?
I still dont get how your old build could make it on the ladder at all though...
I guess the barbs there weren't ow-based?

[luis19]

my last barb had 17-19k def, my new barb has 14-15k def (but will reach more once i get a better duress, currently using 1.2k dusk :lol:)

ww duels, however boring they are, arent just ww through each other.
its like zealot duels but the actual dueling part involves more.

basically i win cause i have usually 25% mroe OW (most ppl use rends like fools). sometimes i c the occassional non duress barb (the good ones all changed to duress after i pwnt their gvalor with an armor worth an um rune).

you have to just get the right position. example of someoen long ww's and you ww right behind them, you seem to hit alot more and can sometimes catch them out of ww doing this. there are a few strats but they are annoying to explain. 1 more ill say is that with an OW barb, especially low def/dmg like mine, you have to avoid diretly wwing through someone, ww to the sides of them.

most barbs are OW based now, just many still use rends. however vs ones that use OW vs me and have higher def and stuff, i can put on highlords/ravens and nigma and just tele stomp them (OW has a weakness). if done right the OW build is at the disadvantage.

[morotsjos]

my last barb had 17-19k def, my new barb has 14-15k def (but will reach more once i get a better duress, currently using 1.2k dusk :lol:)

ww duels, however boring they are, arent just ww through each other.
its like zealot duels but the actual dueling part involves more.

basically i win cause i have usually 25% mroe OW (most ppl use rends like fools). sometimes i c the occassional non duress barb (the good ones all changed to duress after i pwnt their gvalor with an armor worth an um rune).

you have to just get the right position. example of someoen long ww's and you ww right behind them, you seem to hit alot more and can sometimes catch them out of ww doing this. there are a few strats but they are annoying to explain. 1 more ill say is that with an OW barb, especially low def/dmg like mine, you have to avoid diretly wwing through someone, ww to the sides of them.

most barbs are OW based now, just many still use rends. however vs ones that use OW vs me and have higher def and stuff, i can put on highlords/ravens and nigma and just tele stomp them (OW has a weakness). if done right the OW build is at the disadvantage.
Ok.
I know about the bvb-"tactics", sometimes I duel shieldbarbs with my bvc:er for fun =)

However, I have a hard time seeing how you could win vs 35k+ def, 70%+ open wounds builds...
You cant telestomp since you'll land in a ww vs a competent barb.

It's also laughable that "good" bvb:ers on east use rends (and valor before). I guess noone uses fury/beast?

Or is using excessive open wounds considered bm in east?

[Omikron8]

Ok.
I know about the bvb-"tactics", sometimes I duel shieldbarbs with my bvc:er for fun =)

However, I have a hard time seeing how you could win vs 35k+ def, 70%+ open wounds builds...
You cant telestomp since you'll land in a ww vs a competent barb.

It's also laughable that "good" bvb:ers on east use rends (and valor before). I guess noone uses fury/beast?

Or is using excessive open wounds considered bm in east?

Considering that open wounds seems to do astronomically quick damage once you (the person trying to trigger it) hits level 90+, i would not be surprised if mass OW is frowned upon. You can't resist it with DR or resists, unlike poison.

[rikstaker]

Ok.
I know about the bvb-"tactics", sometimes I duel shieldbarbs with my bvc:er for fun =)

However, I have a hard time seeing how you could win vs 35k+ def, 70%+ open wounds builds...
You cant telestomp since you'll land in a ww vs a competent barb.

It's also laughable that "good" bvb:ers on east use rends (and valor before). I guess noone uses fury/beast?

Or is using excessive open wounds considered bm in east?

Very few good BVBers on east(talking about ladder),I havent BVBed yet on east but seen many,most erringly use rends over dracs like said earlier,worse duelers use botd cb.I havent seen anyone using fury or beast(unlike eur).Just one or two barbs with grief zweihanders I saw beat the crap out of botd users.

In BVB,people dont generally frown if you pack ow,but if you trigger ow & run,its pretty lame.Theres a difference.

edit;also note that in crazy prebuffed duels(levl 45+ bo/shout) giving close to 8k life,ow becomes less of an issue,meaning ow builds have a lower chance of sucess,since more time is required if you rely chiefly on ow,whereas grief/botd will be much better with more dmg & 35%-68% ow(depending on fort/duress)

Rik

[luis19]

ppl on east nl think that the 500 dmg rends adds is godlier than 25% chance of OW which can do over 500 PVP dmg.

morot- nearly every barb on east who has the gear to compete in bvb uses botd. main reason is for stats because most ppl use their barb vs casters too (and sadly most of them aa, so they are horrible). so basically me running with dracs/duress/gores is the highest OW build you will have to deal with.

most ppl use:
garreats with 40/15 or 40/9strength or dex
1.5k def duress or switch in 1.3k nigma to tele stomp ow barbs like me (but its counterable so i still win)
angelics
dungos
rends
gores
botd/ss

the main reason why i win is the 25% more OW and sometimes just better ww's (cause other barbs use dracs too, but sux more than me).

[morotsjos]

I see. I was flamed by an eastie for insinuating that dracs/fury/beast was better than botd/rends. He said his barb was #10 on barb ladder when he played... Haw haw...

Just cant understand that noone builds a PURE bvb-barb. It's not that expensive if you're rich, since 32020:s are way cheaper than lifeskillers.

[Zangeif]

ppl on east nl think that the 500 dmg rends adds is godlier than 25% chance of OW which can do over 500 PVP dmg.

Well rends are worth more, but good barbs on east nl all know that dracs are better.

[Herald of Doom]

I used beast+duress+dracs+gores
25+33+25+10

I've seen plenty of barbs use that setup on EuNL. Most of them were better than me too, I couldn't afford 39*32020s so I used plain 20'ers. Now I have ar/lifers, which are very good for bvb, but I got bored with bvb. Typical >.<

HoD