low 30's riphooker setup

[Matt]

So I'm looking at make a sort of oldschool riphooker, problem is, I never made one when they were "the thing" to make....

So, I'm leaning towards speed>damage, basically, using jewels/equipment to get as much speed as possible, and since this will be a pkker/pker as well, some knockback/slow is probably called for as well. I'll use charms to add damage, so I wont lose a whole lot of lifers when (when, not if... no shield is inviting death at some point, I'm well aware of that) I die.

So, I'm shooting for 7 frame guided arrow, which means, if I understand this correctly, that with a riphook, I'll need 142% IAS. (riphoook=-10 speed base)

So,
50% IAS on a Shael'd riphook
30% on deaths combo
20% on twitch
45% on an IAS'd hat.

Thats 145% IAS, which hits 7 frames.

My other option would be to shoot for 8 frames, which requires 75% IAS... That would let me go with:
30% on a non-shael'd riphook (so I could nef it)
20% on twitch
30% Deaths

That hits 8 frame attack, leaving me with 4 sockets to fill with max jewels, or the option of another hat (rockstopper or something)

I lean towards the 7 frame one, since its cheaper, and probably just as effective, though my damage will be slightly lower. The only downside I see is that I dont have any knockback, which could prove deadly in many situations.

Other gear will be:
Waterwalks (I'll go to 32 for these, too good to pass up.. life, 15 dex, some r/w)
Angelic jewelry
Whatever charms I can scrape together... probably some sharps and +dex charms.

I'm not really sure how to distribute stats on this build...
I'm thinking shes probably gone in 1shot pretty much no matter what catches her, even if I pump vitality, which would make me think I might as well pump dexterity, since its got a pretty good damage bonus on it.

On the other hand, by not adding all my points to vitality, I'm ensuring I'm a 1hit KO if I get hit. (this is NOT for dueling chargers... its for most any other 30's build when it comes to dueling)

So, thoughts on that?

As for skills, she will be nightmare rushed, level 32, so she'll have 39 skills to work with.

skills:
passives: 6 dodge, 6 critical strike, 3 avoid, 1 everything else
Bow: 1 prereq's, 14 Guided arrow. Thats 39 skills.. I basically put skills so

I've got valk+decoy to draw fire, 1 in penetrate+pierce, 46% critical, ~40% dodge, little under 40% avoid for passives. Bow, I wont use anything but Guided arrow to attack, so 1 in all prepreqs, dump all the rest of my points there.

So basically, going for a "speeder zon" route, hitting 7 frame attack, which is pretty darn quick, with damage coming from dexterity and charms, with 1 max jewel in my twitch probably.

As a very rough starting point, my target life goal is roughly 700, which is NOT a lot at all for a level 32, but I figure I wont duel chargers (my 30 sorc can handle them), and anything else can be shot from a distance. The goal here is simple, dont get hit, spray arrows with ridiculous speed, slow my enemies down, dont let them get to me..

Again, I know its got slow on it, this is for pesky chickeners and whatnot in duels, since I do enjoy chickening them over and over, and for pkking/pking.

So, any thoughts on her in general, or to any of the "brainstorming questions" posed above? Thanks.

-Matt

[Still-Xey-Lover]

Erm i have some + dex LCs if you need. I also gots an eth twitch :D Other than that it looks like a fun build, good luck. I also have a artisans crown of balance if you want to use it for more...useless fhr?

[Valar-Wrath]

If there is any way to get knockback, that would be huge. Shooting at that speed, nobody would be able to touch you. So if there is some way to get knockback and still hit the 7fps bp, go for it. You could go with cleg's gloves, that one belt that adds 15 ias, Nosferatu's I think?(If the level requirement is low enough, if not, just ignore this setup) and stick a 15 ias jool in the twitch. That would let you hit the 7fps AND have KB, I think.

Other than that, seems like a pretty fun build. :thumbsup:

[Still-Xey-Lover]

It only adds 10 ias, and theres still goldwrap...nosefarus also has slow :D

[Carnage-DVS]

Wouldn't an ias/max armor be better?

[Still-Xey-Lover]

Have fun finding them.

[Valar-Wrath]

It only adds 10 ias, and theres still goldwrap...nosefarus also has slow

Goldwrap adds 15 ias when upgraded? If so, you could use that with Cleg's and an ias jool in the twitch.

[LuckyDwarf]

Wouldn't an ias/max armor be better?

Compare the price of an ias/max armor to a max twitch. I'd take twitch too.

Lucky

[bluedragoon]

Goldwrap adds 15 ias when upgraded? If so, you could use that with Cleg's and an ias jool in the twitch.
goldwrap still has 10 ias after upgrade, i would not upgrade it, that would cost to much strenght

[Matt]

Wouldn't an ias/max armor be better?

Yeah it would, but it would also be better to ias/max the hat, as well as IAS maxing the Riphook, and the twitch.

Ias/max is out of the question, not happening. This is a budget build ;) I've already got most of her charms just from poking through mules and grabbing anything with a lvl req too low to be useful to a high or mid level, and too high to be useful for a low level, or anything with +dex, and threw it together. I'm actually making a tradelist for the couple things I do need for her soon.

About belt/gloves/armor... I'm leaning towards a change:

Bloodfists (10%ias)+Razortail (awesome stats)+45% IAS armor (3 instead of 4 sockets thanks to the massive difference in str req) still hits the 142% IAS breakpoint.
The downsides:
Lose CBF (I figure if I get hit, I'm done or quitting anyways, not gonna effect me much)
Lost 15% resist and big psn resist on deaths (resists are not all that important, I'll spray arrows from a large distance at any casters, and will have decoy/valk as well)
Lose 10 dex on twitch: And gain 10 on razortail

Benefits:
10 max on razortail
piercing attack
5 more dex than if I use twitch
16 slot belt instead of 8
bloodfist stats

Either way though, I still dont have knockback...
The only way I see to get knockback is to go:
Deaths combo
45% ias hat AND armor
Nef'd riphook

Or
Shael'd riphook
60% IAS armor (needs 60 str though, as opposed to about 30 otherwise)
Clegs gloves
45% ias helm

Arg.... whats killin me is that The setup of Shael'd riphook, 45% IAS armor (low str) 45% IAS hat hits 140% IAs... 2% short of the breakpoint, and the only way, other than switching gloves, to get it, is to use another 30 str and go for an eth gothic plate, which also slows me down runwalk wise.


Then of course, I gain knockback without the advantages of twitch OR razortail... not worth it IMO, I think it'd be better to have the razortail+bloodfists than knockback.

So, looks like I'm ditching knockback, goin with the 3 socket light plate approach.

-Matt

[PhatTrumpet]

Benefits:
piercing attack
I thought you were only using Guided...

[superdave]

guided no longer pierces

[MoUsE_WiZ]

Is it possible to craft 10% IAS+KB gloves for the level you're shooting for? 20% would be better as then you don't need goldwrap, but IAS the twitch 10% gloves 10% belt and you're there too.

[superdave]

Is it possible to craft 10% IAS+KB gloves for the level you're shooting for? 20% would be better as then you don't need goldwrap, but IAS the twitch 10% gloves 10% belt and you're there too.

it is certainly possible to craft low lvl hitpower gloves with ias...check out my glove crafting guide stickied in the zon forum to calculate lvls....it would also be possible to get +skills too on a pair of low lvl hitpowers


http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=337333

[Valar-Wrath]

If you can make those gloves you could use those and nosferatus and I think you'd have to stick an ias jool in the twitch(if you're still using twitch). Nosferatus over Goldwrap if you are high enough level for it because of the other nice mods on it.

Those gloves are sweet BTW.

Edit: Just checked and you would be able to still use the twitch, crafted gloves with KB and IAS, Nosferatus/Goldwrap combo if you socketed the twitch with an ias jool. That way you get 150 ias, hit the 7fps bp, get KB, and maybe even some +skills on the gloves.

*Sigh* talking about this actually makes me want to start up a zon. Good luck with her Matt and keep us updated. :thumbsup:

[superdave]

nos coil's char lvl req is just over 50...i believe goldwrap is around 27

[Carnage-DVS]

Bah, I never built budget duelers. They either had to be the best, or I traded till they became the best.

[Matt]

Bah, I never built budget duelers. They either had to be the best, or I traded till they became the best.

Good for you, you also dueled when people didnt scan you before every duel, and refuse to duel if you were "the best". Yeah, I could go trade everything I've got and make a top notch mid level character, but it would not get many duels its level, and the VAST majority of opponents would chickenhack anyways.

I'll stick to low level builds, which dont take all my resources, or lead to, for example, any botting, be it a month or any other length of time. Not that either of us know anything about that :rolleyes:

Theres more to dueling for me than being mr elite, best dueler ever, i pwn you all. I duel to have fun. Winning IS fun, so I do try to make my duelers good, and generally succeed. However, making the same mid level barb, or low level charger because its "the best" gets old fast. So what do I do? Make builds I will find fun, and not worry about whether they are the best or not, I've got 2 other duelers now, and a couple others coming up, you wont find any of them whose goal is to be "the best no matter what" or who is a cookie cutter build. Guess we've got different styles.

I apologize in advance if I misinterpreted your comments, but it comes off to me as
"bah, back in the day, before all you newbie duelers came along, we were the best of the best, none of this "budget" crap, we were the dueling gods, you've got nothing on us, and you're somehow lesser players if you dont go for the best and only the best"
I'd like to think I'm wrong, but it sure doesnt seem it, and your previous posts regarding anything PvP have pretty much had the same tone.

Anyway... I'd rather not end up arguing over something off the topic, I've had my say, seph, say what you will, I'm done arguing with you, back to the amazon:

I didnt remember that guided no longer pierces... shows how many bowazons I've made in 1.10 ;)

So I think I'll shoot for:
Kb/IAS gloves (assuming 10% IAS)
IAS'd twitch (35%)
Shael'd riphook (50%)
45% mask (45%)
That leaves me 2% short, so either I've gotta use a goldwrap or get over 12% IAS on the gloves :)

Thanks everyone, looks like thats the setup of choice! I'm planning to have her leveled and mostly equipped by the end of today, though probably not completely done...

-Matt

[Matt]

it is certainly possible to craft low lvl hitpower gloves with ias...check out my glove crafting guide stickied in the zon forum to calculate lvls....it would also be possible to get +skills too on a pair of low lvl hitpowers


http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=337333

Very nice thread, only problem is that I have no idea what all the "alvl" and "group" stuff means... I tried to interpret it, but I had no luck, I'm not much for statistics, as I'm sure you can tell.

If anyone who does understand it could help me out, I checked the tables for IAS and found that:
10%IAS mod: group=7 Alvl=20, lvlreq=15
20%IAS mod: group=7 Alvl=43, lvlreq=35.

Does that mean I cant craft level 31 gloves with 20% ias, since the lvl req will be 35, or that I should be level 35 when I craft if I'm going for 20% IAS?

No idea what an Alvl is... I tried reading the link from superdave's guide explaining Alvls, but it might as well have been in chinese.

So those are the mods I care about on the gloves, since KB is a set mod, so if anyone could point me in the right direction regarding what level I should be, and where I should find magic chain gloves to craft with, that'd be great, thanks!

-Matt

[Baranor]

matt, it works like this:

shael riphook
bf
single IAS jool
raizortail
maoim oak ammy
waterwalks
2 rare rings with stats and +mana
maxes all around


its a fun build but shes fragile. i made two of these, they butchered everyone in sight. without pierce its tougher but still doable. max GA, rest in crit. screw dodge, if they're that close you're already dead.

[YogiRat]

I agree with Baranor. Getting to 7FPS is just too many hoops to jump through. Also, I'm not sure that you shoot 7FPS all the time due to client/ server issues. Has this debate ever been resolved?

Oh, yeah, all of my lvl31 fervors are plain. ;)

[Matt]

matt, it works like this:

shael riphook
bf
single IAS jool
raizortail
maoim oak ammy
waterwalks
2 rare rings with stats and +mana
maxes all around


its a fun build but shes fragile. i made two of these, they butchered everyone in sight. without pierce its tougher but still doable. max GA, rest in crit. screw dodge, if they're that close you're already dead.

Yeah, thats the 8 frame breakpoint... I was wondering about that actually, would it be better to drop a frame in favor of more max's?

Why mahim/rares over angelic? The AR is useful as always on the angelics, the dex is a great bonus for its +dmg, life is always good... Mahim you get a smaller AR bonus, less life, dex is on both... You get +mana, maybe a little more +dex with that setup, depending on rings, but at the cost of more AR/life?

Also lacking KB.

The 7 frame build would have less damage, but KB and more speed... I may go with an 8 frame build, favoring a lot more damage over a frame of speed, however, I'll probably craft IAS/KB gloves over the bloodfists...

-Matt

[senji]

you get about same life with the mahim amulet setup 10 str 10 vit =60 life
2 rare rings with stats/life depends.

i don't know what your thinking you said you want guide arrow but it don't need ar to hit

you get some resist with the mahim amu setup too you get nothing useful out of angelic combo.. bleh

[Matt]

you get about same life with the mahim amulet setup 10 str 10 vit =60 life
2 rare rings with stats/life depends.

Well, angelics give 115 life, which is almost twice as much. I dont think I'll need the 10 str on mahim, so it really doesnt save me 10 stats.


i don't know what your thinking you said you want guide arrow but it don't need ar to hit

you get some resist with the mahim amu setup too you get nothing useful out of angelic combo.. bleh

I dont know what I'm thinking either... This probably has something to do with me having made exactly zero bowazons in about 2 years... I'm just an amazon noob I guess, missing obvious things about em.

[Sip]

I hate to be the negative one here, and i know its your idea so I dont want to make you angry...But From my experience with bowazons in 1.10 I have come to the conclusion that they stink.

To me, your current setup looks like a low level Pvm bowazon. Without Pierce and the increased pvp penalty, that zon should do next to nothing as far as damage is concerned. You arent even using any max jewels, Just ias stuff, which will probably just tickle them until they charge your face in. If anything they will Chicken or leave before you get close to killing them.

When i was dueling around with my level 32 chargers, I came across a few bowazons, and let me tell you, they were horrible. I believe one was level 70 something and used lycanders bow. I tanked four or five of his guided arrows before i one-hit killed him. Dont forget, his amazon probably did three times the damage that yours will, and he was twice my level.

I can only help but think if your riphooker dueled a 29+ charger (which are the most common dueler of your level class) that you'd get killed really really quickly. Not to mention you dont have any block...

Anyway, enough of the negatives. Heres my imput:
Make a level 39 Bowazon and use harmony in a matriarchal bow. That bow has respectable damage and speed (and Vigor aura to help you do the shoot and run zon thing). I actually faced a bowazon that packed a mean punch with one of these things. Dont go crazy with ias, instead get some max damage jewels. Knockback is mandatory too.

Harmony 4 Socket Missile Weapons
Tir + Ith + Sol + Ko

Level 10 Vigor Aura When Equipped
+200-275% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+9 To Minimum Damage
+9 To Maximum Damage
Adds 55-160 Lightning Damage
Adds 55-160 Fire Damage
Adds 55-160 Cold Damage
+2-6 To Valkyrie (varies)
+10 To Dexterity
Regenerate Mana 20%
+2 To Mana After Each Kill
+2 To Light Radius
Level 20 Revive (25 Charges)

In a matriarchal bow it could do as much as 185 damage.

Considering you're a bowazon, you probably wouldnt have trouble getting those pesky upgraded eth bonesnap/eth steeldriver chargers to duel you. Whatever you decide, im sure it will be a learning experience.

[PhatTrumpet]

You might as well use WWS if going to lvl 39...

[ZappaFan]

I deleted about a dozen posts in this thread that were spun way OT and didn't belong here.

How about we keep this thread on topic? Bot accusations don't belong here. All they lead to are flame wars. If there is somebody that is using the trade forums and is botting, PM me about it rather than spamming up perfectly good threads with all that accusational crap.

[Baranor]

mmm the main prowess of the guided zon was the ability to let the arrows pierce. With a hooker in 1.09 the damage you could put out using all maxes was just amazing because the arrows stuck, and you could easily get a string of guideds going quickly shredding the target of any and all health.

Too bad that you'd have to sacrifice a lot of damage or life for it else I'd suggest adding some CB in the mix.

[Matt]

mmm the main prowess of the guided zon was the ability to let the arrows pierce. With a hooker in 1.09 the damage you could put out using all maxes was just amazing because the arrows stuck, and you could easily get a string of guideds going quickly shredding the target of any and all health.

Too bad that you'd have to sacrifice a lot of damage or life for it else I'd suggest adding some CB in the mix.

I'd thought about it as well, the only really practical sources are: Guilliames (HUGE str req compared to anything else i'd be using though. Rattlecage: Possible, but still higher req's and lose twitch. Goblin toes: Possible, but lose 15 dex and 65 life, for like 25% CB... not sure if thats worth it or not really.

-Matt

[superdave]

i don't know if sacrificing other equip to get cb would be worth it...i don't pvp but if i recall isn't it something like 1/20th with a missile?

[Baranor]

something like that yes... basically, every time CB triggers its 10% of current health for PvP. With missiles and 100% CB you still onl get a 50% chance of triggering it.

[PhatTrumpet]

Pretty sure you've got that backwards... it's not the chance to trigger that gets halved, it's the damage. You still have the same chance of CB triggering with missles, it just does 5% of opponent's remaining life rather than 10%.

Conclusion: go for Critical and Deadly rather than Crushing.

[Baranor]

I do? Mmm, in that case forget I even said it.

[superdave]

I do? Mmm, in that case forget I even said it.
yes i read through my notes i am pretty sure it is 1/20th