The fun LLD guide

[JoeDamned]

Hello, I am new to this forum but it doesn't seem to be an extremely tightly woven community so I should hope I can fit in quite easily.

First my contact information;

Username; JoeDa
Realm; US West
Ladder; Yes
Most Common Character; LoS_BvB, LoS_SpeEder

Anyways, into the guide;

A good LLD is basically one of the most enjoyable feelings you will have in the ENTIRE game, they are extremely easy to make since they require next-to-no leveling and dueling is fun as heck.

What is an LLD?
An LLD is a "Low Level Dueler" this means that you will be dueling in normal difficulty setting and may on occassion have to bring in a higher level character if one of those lvl 40+ people comes into the low lvl dueling room and starts harrassing you.

Why make an LLD?
This is pretty much my favourite type of character, basically it is just non-stop fun to duel in normal mode and own people 10 levels higher than you thinking they are all that because a level 12 hostiled them while they are level 20+ or whatever and are very ignorant. Bam! They are dead in a few swings, they did like 2 damage to you and they are calling you everything from a hacker to godly character and pretty much ALWAYS want to see your weapons.

What level should my LLD be?
Basically ANYTHING under 30, the lower you are the better because being an LLD is all about showing off your "Mad Talent", so if you are a lvl 12 LLD, and you kill a lvl 25, they will be more amazed and calling you Godly than if your a lvl 24 and kill the same person. However anything under level 30 still works, as long as you amaze people and can own.

How do I MAKE an LLD?
Simply by getting appropriate items for the level of the LLD you wish to make (If you want to make a level 12, Angelics is a VERY good idea) and being TOTALLY based around those items.

For example, if the highest str requiring item that you will use needs 50 str, ONLY GET 50 STR. As SOON as you are done meeting all the requirements for your items, dump all your stats into vit, sometimes you can get your vit up to 70+ by level 12, sometimes you can only get it to level 30, it is ALL BASED ON THE ITEMS YOU USE.

What are some good items to use for my LLD?
Set items are your friend.
Set items are your friend.
Set items are your friend.
Did you get that?
Because MOST rares and uniques that have under 15 level requirement are nothing much to be amazed about, few exceptions which I will explain.

Best set items to use;
1. Angelic rings + ammy (Number 1 priority set item)

2. Angelic Mantle (+1 to skills, low str req, 250 def, level 12, only if you are using ring(s) + ammy should you use this)

3. Hsaurus boots + buckler + belt = *Can't be frozen*, AR, 20 fr, 20 cr and some max dmg, this is optional set.

4. Sigon Boots = 40 COLD RES OMFG, 20 frw, can use alone
Sigon Helm = Mana, def, etc, dont use without another sig, w/ other = AR
Sigon Gloves = 10 str, AR, w/ other = 30 IAS
Sigon Shield = +1 SKILLS! VERY VERY IMPORTANT!

5. Death sash = *Can't be frozen*
Death hand = Poision res, w/ other = 30 ias
Death weapon = 10-25 dmg, w/o other = +25-75 COLD DAMAGE OMFG

What class of character for an LLD?
Basically 2 classes you can go with;
Barbarian
or
Paladin
*Only these classes can be mega strong at low levels w/o much mana pots needed*

What KIND of pally/barb for LLD?
Paladins
- Zealer (Balance between Sacrafice *Zeal Synergie* and dmg aura Might for maximum dmg, might switch aura to Cold Res/Light Res/Fire Res depending on how much res your LLD gear has, then dump into zeal)

- Sacraficer (All Sacrafice + Might, may switch to a res aura depending on your gear res, AS MUCH HP AS YOU CAN GET, MUST BE OVER 200)

- Charger (1 smite, rest might *Charge Synergie*, then dump into charge, even if you are going to use a res aura make SURE to dump lots into might because it helps the damage of charge greatly)

- Tank (If your using good res gear, dump lots into defiance for amazing def, if your using good def gear, dump stuff into res auras, just make sure you can stand up to any attack and laugh) *This might be a bad idea for an LLD, never tried it*

Barbarians
- Double swing (Mastery that suits both your weapons until lvl 6, then dump into double swing)

- Power hitter (Bash + Mastery of weapon you will use, balance evenly) *Never tried*

- Master (Dump everything into mastery, easy)


What weapon should I use?
Double Swing barb = 2 death swords, + death sash + death hand
Master = The best weapon you can find that is a low level req that you will be able to use early and get the mastery for at lvl 1
Charger = Good Damage Pike, Full cleglaws or a hammer + shield combo
Sacraficer = Bloodrise, full deaths works well, as well
Zealer = Anything that hits fast and does good dmg, full deaths works well here


Conclusion
There characters rock!
Death set = Best Set for LLD if you can stand the str+dex req
Angelics = A must have for armor+rings+ammy = AR + 1 skills, +75 fire res

Make SURE to try to get a +1 to all skills item! If you can get 2-3 of them it is GREAT because you can stay at a low level yet use an advanced level of that skill!

RESISTANCES AND VITALITY ARE YOUR BEST FRIENDS! LOVE THEM!

[Dacar92]

Cool idea for a guide. Welcome to the forums! I don't duel, but maybe someday I will.

[dantheman5415]

I have a pretty good LLDer myself...a lvl 26 smiter.

He uses:
Angelic Rings and Ammy (Life and Damage to Mana)
30ias Rare Cutlass (omfg speedy)
Twitch (duh)
Deaths Gloves and Belt (CBF, IAS, Res, what more could you ask for)
Goblin Toe/Res Frw Boots (For Melee and Sorcs)
30/20 Barbed Shield
3 Perfect Ruby Socketed Mask (114 life is a big deal in LLD)

He has 648 life, like 50 mana, and smite does 236 max damage.

Skill points are as follows:
20 smite
1 Charge
1 Holy Bolt
1 Blessed Hammer
3 Holy Shield
1 Might
1 Blessed Aim
1 Concentration

He owns pretty much any melee char and most casters in LLD, except until someone brings in their lvl 80 >.<

[JoeDamned]

I have 2 different LLD's, one is a level 12 and one is a level 25 I think.

The level 12 is a double swing barb, his stats are;
1 bash
7 Double Swing
7 Sword Mastery
1 shoutythingthatscaresmonsters
2 shout

His gear is;
2 death swords
death hand
death sash
Sigon boots
Angelic Rings + Ammy
Angelic Mantle
3 RUBY socket mask (Used to be biggins but had to xfer it to my new bvb)

Level 25 is a cold zealer, his stats are;
6 Sacrafice
6 Zeal
10 Cold Resist
1 Might
1 Holy fire
10 Holy Cold

His gear is;
Sigon Boots
Sigon Helm
Sigon Shield
Death sword
Death sash
Death hand
Angelic rings + ammy
Angelic Mantle

Both of these LLD's work VERY well, the only problem is that I don't have tons of gear so I just have to switch my deaths and angelics back and forth to any LLD I want to use at that time. Oh well.

I wish I still had my biggins but I am using it in my new super strong BVB.

[TheCerberus]

My LLD smiter used Bloodfists/Deaths, rare Spiked Shield, Gnasher/Khalim's Flail, Death's Sash, Biggin's, Hotspurs, and rest rares. It worked pretty well IMO.

[xXxJDub75xXx]

dantheman5415, this sounds like a build i may be interested in, so i have a couple questions for you.

1) How did you distribute your char's stats?

2) In theory a rare akaran targe with a clvl req of 26 would do bigger damage than a barbed shield. Have you thought of this?

[Jimi-]

dantheman5415, this sounds like a build i may be interested in, so i have a couple questions for you.

1) How did you distribute your char's stats?

2) In theory a rare akaran targe with a clvl req of 26 would do bigger damage than a barbed shield. Have you thought of this?



2) In theory a rare akaran targe with a clvl req of 26 would do bigger damage than a barbed shield. Have you thought of this?


paladin shields dont exist in classic

[JoeDamned]

Does anyone know of a really good level 12 shield?
I have got;
Sigon shield, +1 to skills (But needs 75 str, not good)
Unique small shield, 20 life, 65 block rate, blinds, 10 dex (Could be more useful..)

And that is about all I have, does anyone know of a better shield?

[Baranor]

if its for a smiter, go rare spiked. if its for anything else, go pelta lunata.

[JoeDamned]

Sigon shield is just a great shield, that is all I can say, my best lld doesn't need a shield so that is good.

However I did find a very good rare bone but since I don't have any good boots I am stuck needing 70 str for sigon boots anyways and the rare bone becomes useless.

[dantheman5415]

For smiters, spiked shields are the way to go for under 25 duels, but after that, your best bet is a 30/20 barbed with damage to mana (helps a lot in duels)

[Jezza]

I've seen you around LoS. I may even have dueled you once with my LLD. I use a sacrificer, named JTsBeatingHeart.

He is lvl 11, 10 sacrifice, 1 might.

He uses cathans ammy/rings (gg leech, fire dmg, 20str!!!!)
deaths set (your right, just amazing)
sigs helm/boots (ll, cr, ar) or biggins/hotspur (edmg, life, ar, fr)
Greyform (unique quilted armor 5%ll, 10 dex, 20 cr/fr)
umbral disk (10 dex, life 65 block for pala)

He really is gg for his lvl, but I'm thinking of remaking him at lvl 12 and using
same setup, but with angelics rings/ammy instead of cathans. His ar is only like 800, so he is lacking in the %to hit category.

Anyway, I will remake him soon, and then challenge your LL barb (double swing one) to a duel :) USWEST *Jezza *Jezza3

[ethos]

Jezza, are you JtsBurningSoul?
I used to have a real fun LLD.
Used: Rare pike with something like 102 max dmg, 90 AR, cold dmg.
Angelics bling, angelics armour,
Deaths gloves/sash
3 ruby helm
hsarus boots

was level 12, and highest person i pk'ed was a level 56 orber lol
Anything under lvl 30 was easy.
700 dmg charge ^^

Only LLD i couldnt beat was my freinds cleg charger

[Noxarcana]

i have a nice charge lld, well lvl 29.

2x Angelic Halo
Angelic Wings
Death's Guard
Bloodfist
Steeldriver
Biggons Bonnet
Treads of Cthon
Twitchthroe

skills are 20 might, rest charge

stats are 40 str base(+10 from twitch) and rest vit

i have pwned every sorc i have faced, only think i might have problems with are javazons

[SwampBox]

What do you think of my setup?

Deathsword 1
Deathsword 2
Death's Hand
Death's Sash
Angelic Ring 1
Angelic Ring 2
Angelic Amulet
Angelic Body Armor
Tarnhelm
Sigon Greaves

Resistances:
Fire= 65
Lightning=15
Cold=55
Poison=65

[sculpen]

What do you think of my setup?

Deathsword 1
Deathsword 2
Death's Hand
Death's Sash
Angelic Ring 1
Angelic Ring 2
Angelic Amulet
Angelic Body Armor
Tarnhelm
Sigon Greaves

Resistances:
Fire= 65
Lightning=15
Cold=55
Poison=65

Sounds good, tho I would change tarn for a 3 socket mask with the highest quality rubies for that barbs level. The Death's swords are very stat intensive so that build tends to be low on life. Works very well against most chars, but expect to die quickly vs. any lld with a shield.

[sardoniclysane]

i have a nice charge lld, well lvl 29.

2x Angelic Halo
Angelic Wings
Death's Guard
Bloodfist
Steeldriver
Biggons Bonnet
Treads of Cthon
Twitchthroe

skills are 20 might, rest charge

stats are 40 str base(+10 from twitch) and rest vit

i have pwned every sorc i have faced, only think i might have problems with are javazons

The only thing I would change is go with deaths hand instead of bloodfists, and maybe change biggens to a 3 sock p ruby helm.

[Standard Legal Tender]

Los and Ethos Eeeh, maybe I should join the club...My friend eddy or you may know his account as Krazy-axe, Krazy-lance just made a LLD and he's having a load of fun...I feel like im missing out :(. Anyway im gona try either a sacrificer thing or a zealot thing.. :lol:

[fredsta54]

did somebody say cleg lld zealer? :lol:


(seriously tho they own)



Fred

[Still-Xey-Lover]

I'm curious, how much damage do these Death Set doubleswingers pull out? Maybe dual cleg swords would be better, but without the shield there's no ias or crushing blow so it might not be as powerful.

[fredsta54]

I wouldnt want clegs swords on a double swinger, as u need clegs gloves which do knockback and the sword has low range




Fred

[sardoniclysane]

I wouldnt want clegs swords on a double swinger, as u need clegs gloves which do knockback and the sword has low range




Fred


I like my lld bowazon. 6 p emerald bow, Twitch, Mahim oak ammy, Howltusk, some high rez 30fr/w boots, deaths sash and gloves, and two manalds.

You can also go 5 p emerald 1 p saph to slow them down, but with knockback, me thinks this is rather useless.

[Murrogh]

my main problem seems to be finding character to duel.
whenever I make a lld game no one comes except an occasional weak char.

the only way I can find a fight is going to games with several characters in the 20-29 range and challenge them with my low lvl duelers. so far my lvl 16 dueler hasn't found anyone under 30 who can do anything to him. i've even taken several 20+ chars at a time.

I want more of a challenge. how do you find a good fight?
I'm in USEast Ladder.

[Standard Legal Tender]

OOO man today when I was getting rushed, I picked up a 69 dmg hatchet, 134 ed + 8-18 dmg OmG Omg lvl 19 req, base stats required Omg Omg. Anyway I'm really excited about that, gonna make a sexy LLD. Already got a name for it too..TLS-HornyPossum...MWHAHAHAHa.... :lol:

[fredsta54]

my main problem seems to be finding character to duel.
whenever I make a lld game no one comes except an occasional weak char.

the only way I can find a fight is going to games with several characters in the 20-29 range and challenge them with my low lvl duelers. so far my lvl 16 dueler hasn't found anyone under 30 who can do anything to him. i've even taken several 20+ chars at a time.

I want more of a challenge. how do you find a good fight?
I'm in USEast Ladder.


hmm your east ladder? interesting... :)

[Murrogh]

hmm your east ladder? interesting... :)
wanna duel some time?
i dont have many duelers yet but I plan on making alot of different types and it would be nice to have a good lld to test the viablilty of the builds I make.

[fredsta54]

murrogh didnt u get my PM?

im on right now /w *fredsta54

[Standard Legal Tender]

Can we have a poll to unban joe.. he's a really nice guy and I'd like to discuss a bit about LLD with him.. maybe learn something...just a thought :D .

[Locke07]

Can we have a poll to unban joe.. he's a really nice guy and I'd like to discuss a bit about LLD with him.. maybe learn something...just a thought :D .

Agreed... I kind of fine the reason he got banned stupid... I don't agree with the anti-swearing, but I abide by it. Though he did show disregard but making more and more acounts.

[Standard Legal Tender]

Agreed... I kind of fine the reason he got banned stupid... I don't agree with the anti-swearing, but I abide by it. Though he did show disregard but making more and more acounts.

Yeah maybe Joey thought he could beat the system.... then got angry when he couldn't.. But since I put up a post on his LLD thread ( this thread ) he Pm-ed me and gave me some ideas, tips and suggestions. I think some of his experience in certain areas could be a positive asset to this forum.. Joey Joey Joey Joey! :innocent:

[Still-Xey-Lover]

Erm it wont let me pm you legal, so i'll just ask here. Will your hatchet ever be for trade? I'm interested in trading for it.

[Zodijackyl]

Level 12 charger with godly rare war hammer. Best Kill Level 94 (GRYM_PROXIMUS, level 94 barbarian, USEast NL)

[fredsta54]

Why is SLT banned?

[eggo]

Found a lvl25 Runesword..does 108 max 1hand..118% ed..too bad it has such high str req..103..still good ?

[PetePizza]

I've had success with a LLD Zealot with the following gear:

Full Cleglaws
Cathan's Jewlery and Mesh
Helm socketed with sapphire and ruby
Snakecord Belt
Unique Barb Boots (or Vidala's, just wanted the +rw speed)

The gear reflects that he's a bit of an afterthought, thrown together with what I had on mules. He's level 13 with one point in Might and the rest into Sacrifice until Zeal was available.

I can go four on one in low level games without a problem because he has so much life, and packs a nice punch. His bane: low level Chargers.

As an aside, how does one aim Charge in a way that results in a series of charges? Duelers hit me with three quick charges, bam bam bam! and I'm dead. I can't seem to aim it correctly. I'll get one and then I'm swinging normal, or running around on accident.

[Murrogh]

I've had success with a LLD Zealot with the following gear:

Full Cleglaws
Cathan's Jewlery and Mesh
Helm socketed with sapphire and ruby
Snakecord Belt
Unique Barb Boots (or Vidala's, just wanted the +rw speed)

The gear reflects that he's a bit of an afterthought, thrown together with what I had on mules. He's level 13 with one point in Might and the rest into Sacrifice until Zeal was available.

I can go four on one in low level games without a problem because he has so much life, and packs a nice punch. His bane: low level Chargers.

As an aside, how does one aim Charge in a way that results in a series of charges? Duelers hit me with three quick charges, bam bam bam! and I'm dead. I can't seem to aim it correctly. I'll get one and then I'm swinging normal, or running around on accident.

My LLD zealer is level 16 so I can use twitchthroe, this helps tons as you have 20% better block and faster attack. I would definately use angelics ammy/rings over cathans. you get 115 life 10dex lots of AR and the dtm on ammy always gives me enough mana. if you didn't want to level to 16 for twitch, you could use angelic armor which would give you +1 skill 50mana 150defence and 50 fire resist.

[ethos]

As an aside, how does one aim Charge in a way that results in a series of charges? Duelers hit me with three quick charges, bam bam bam! and I'm dead. I can't seem to aim it correctly. I'll get one and then I'm swinging normal, or running around on accident.
Easiest way is to make sure there is nothing behind them, then namelock them and just hold it down until they die. If you stop charging and start swinging at them, charge about 1/2 a screen away and then namelock them again.

Another interesting build would be a fire arrow amazon
lvl 31, Deaths, Twitch, rogues bow, 1+ pris zon amulet, 2 sojs, frw boots, life helmet

Max fire arrow and exploding arrow. Deals out the dmg as far as I remember. It has faster attack speed than a fire sorc and more damage. And it gets away from just melee :rolleyes:

[PetePizza]

Easiest way is to make sure there is nothing behind them, then namelock them and just hold it down until they die. If you stop charging and start swinging at them, charge about 1/2 a screen away and then namelock them again.

How does a player 'namelock?'

Quick report: my clvl13 Zealot, MooMooPooPoo, somehow beat a clvl33 Barb last night! :clap: He didn't didn't blame lag, just said 'nice weapon' and that was that!

And my clvl20 Charger, MooSmack, almost beat a higher level barb and sorc combo, but Charged the barb right into safety of town with an 1/8 of the barb's life remaining. The pair then jumped me. But still! :thumbsup:

[Gorny]

Why is SLT banned?


He made a very rude remark about a female poster in the OTF, and was banned by Freet.

He will not be returning.


In the future, when wondering why someone is banned, it is best to PM a mod.

[Murrogh]

How does a player 'namelock?'

Quick report: my clvl13 Zealot, MooMooPooPoo, somehow beat a clvl33 Barb last night! :clap: He didn't didn't blame lag, just said 'nice weapon' and that was that!

And my clvl20 Charger, MooSmack, almost beat a higher level barb and sorc combo, but Charged the barb right into safety of town with an 1/8 of the barb's life remaining. The pair then jumped me. But still! :thumbsup:

what realm are you in?

[PetePizza]

Murrogh-

USwest ladder, account PistolPetePizza

[Tridge]

i'm getting into the process of making a lvl 27 smiter on east ladder sc right now.
gonna use +1 30 ias crys sword, +1 30/20 barbed shld, +1 din 32/30 life/mana 10% dtm ammy, +str/life rings (forget exact stats), death sash, bfist, twitch, 3 pr mask, and one of either treads or gtoe, but most likely treads.

[ChildOfGod]

I remember my lvl 24 chargadin a year ago. He used to own 5 people at once and his highest kill must've been numerous lvl 70+s.

[solartje]

not sure if theyll work in classic but try these (at least they arent as coockie as a bonesnap charger):

lvl9 (sigon boots), lvl18 (twithc) or lvl25 (exeptional version boots) kicker. beats chargers anytime. (fade, % dmg red, nice boots and ur rocking)

teleporting sumoner (max sumons, amp dmg, weaken charges wand, teleport staf, and max slow (gloves, golem , blallala)) , cast weaken, teleport on them, watch them die

lvl18-29 bonenecro

lvl29 firetrapper (wof)

lvl29 hamerdin/smiter/charger

i think in clasic... the kicksin would be the strongest char combined with the hamerdin. but kicksin atleast arent as coockie. dmg red, nn for any dmg weapon, u can use ele dmg, only item u need are boots. might even be able to make it a hybrid. 1 wof + 1stun just to put him in stunlock, telekick in , and dtalon him to death. he wont even be able to run to town.

fear the kicker townrunners :thumbsup:

[fredsta54]

not sure if theyll work in classic but try these (at least they arent as coockie as a bonesnap charger):

lvl9 (sigon boots), lvl18 (twithc) or lvl25 (exeptional version boots) kicker. beats chargers anytime. (fade, % dmg red, nice boots and ur rocking)

teleporting sumoner (max sumons, amp dmg, weaken charges wand, teleport staf, and max slow (gloves, golem , blallala)) , cast weaken, teleport on them, watch them die

lvl18-29 bonenecro

lvl29 firetrapper (wof)

lvl29 hamerdin/smiter/charger

i think in clasic... the kicksin would be the strongest char combined with the hamerdin. but kicksin atleast arent as coockie. dmg red, nn for any dmg weapon, u can use ele dmg, only item u need are boots. might even be able to make it a hybrid. 1 wof + 1stun just to put him in stunlock, telekick in , and dtalon him to death. he wont even be able to run to town.

fear the kicker townrunners :thumbsup:


Sweet idea! .... not. Its a shame there are no assasins in classic.













Fred

[Noite Escura]

Is smite refletcted by IM/Thorns? In some places it is listed as magic damage, in others as physical.

[battleroyale]

For a level 12 charger, there is an extra point that comes from the Izual quest in normal, that is not used because of the level of skills maxed at that level.

Should it go towards Blessed Aim for the passive AR bonus?

[zrk]

For a level 12 charger, there is an extra point that comes from the Izual quest in normal, that is not used because of the level of skills maxed at that level.

Should it go towards Blessed Aim for the passive AR bonus?

I put that point into resist cold. Its really useful against higher level orbers and your damage doesnt really suffer much when you switch from might to resist cold.

[zaxien]

hrm just found the perfect weap for a LLD a 141 dam cold dam pike lvl 19 req....doesnt beat my LLpk i had in hccl a lvl 12req knockback cd 154 but it will work. Also best way to do a llcharger is to hell rush him and get the extra 8 skills from quests =). put all into charge/might i remember my hccl one hade 3 mules full of ears 30+ and 1 mule of nothing but 60+ ears =) almost 2.5k damage isnt bad on a lvl 19 heh.

[WarlockCC]

Is smite refletcted by IM/Thorns? In some places it is listed as magic damage, in others as physical.
I have tested and can confirm to you that Smite is physical damage, which will get damage returned.

A simple test : Go into CS, get IM on your head and start dancing the sado-masochistarena.

[Noite Escura]

Yeah, I didn't have a clue by the time I asked that question :)

[bakedpotato]

I am going to be making a LLD charger. No matter what, ammy/rings will be angelic, boots are treads, helm i think duskdeep. I am stuck between 2 sets for the other items.

1) Sword- Clegs
Shield- Clegs
Gloves- Clegs
Belt- Nightsmoke
Armor- Hawkmail

I like the deadly/crushing for clegs, it slows,30% attack rating, nightsmoke has 50% damage to mana, and hawkmail has no freeze/10% run.

2) Sword- Deaths
GLoves- Deaths
Belt- Deaths
Armor- Twitch
Shield- A rare grim shield (270 def, 9% damage to mana, some other random mods 60% block, req lvl 24, 47 str)

Deaths seems to give more dmg at lower lvls due to the 25-75 cold dmg, lots of life leech, 30% ias, and the benefits of twitch, but it needs lots more strength for deaths set.

Any suggestions?

[Akukami]

Level 15 Cleg Charger
---------------------
Helmet: 3-Socket FRuby Mask
Weapon: Cleglaw's Tooth
Shield: Cleglaw's Claw
Armor: Angelic Mantle
Gloves: Clegclaw's Pincers
Boots: Hsarus' Iron Heel
Belt: Hsarus' Iron Stay
Rings: Anglic Halo x 2
Amulet: Anglic Wings

Switch to Hawkmail for Cold Sorcs. Use Tarnhelm if you prefer the +1 Skill over life.

- Akukami

[fledgeling]

do 3socket helmets with level 15 req exist? where did you get it?


anyway, I made some LLDs:
level 14 martel charger
level 12 pike charger

pike is a BAD weapon. martel has higher minimal damage, which results in 1 hit kill and attacks faster when you miss (you hit say 3 times per 1,5 second and only 2 times in the same time with a pike)

I made a holy fire-ravenfrost-ranger - I think he could get some nice damage with 2prepatch sojs, prepatch ravenclaw and max synergies.
Mine doesnt have these items or synergies, but still does nice damage.
I use an etlich amulet to slow down worse players, as well as light gear and cthon boots (to run away)

level 11 defense smiter: cathan rings+amu (20str!), gnasher, sigon set
around 840 defense and level 1 smite. the problem is that I cant find any 30rw boots and a nova sorc might kill this char. But he seems to be pretty good melee


making a healing 1point smiter, not sure what to use, thinking about a 2perfectskull helmet, 2 angelic rings (12regen), 70% block shield. Maybe a tarn? the level 15 healing is faast I think


any other ideas?
Im thinking of level 16 summoner
frost nova sorc
basher
zealot
sacrificer

[Dwade]

Dont martels have a lvl 25 req?

[Rawly]

do 3socket helmets with level 15 req exist? where did you get it?

3 socket bone helm or mask have no level req and low str req too, i have found them in nightmare flayers onwards. (you can also you great helms and crowns with 3 sockets and no reqs)

[fledgeling]

martel, maul, level 11 required on mine

anyway the attack with pike reminds me of impale :O
it's so slow (and I have 10ias pike +30ias from sigon)

[goomba]

3 socket bone helm

3 socket bone? I've found plenty of 3 socket helms, but none that were the following:

bone helms
war hats
sallets
"caps"

most typically, I use/find 3 sockets of the following:
winged helms
crowns
masks

*shrug*

[goomba]

speaking of lld's

not sure how many people have the access to self rush, and/or friends that would rush a very low character and do all of the skill quests for such low levels, but if you do, the additional skill quests from nm/hell would most certainly help maximize the damage a lld can do.

In addition, the life quests, etc. (esem's tome?)

[fledgeling]

speaking of lld's

not sure how many people have the access to self rush, and/or friends that would rush a very low character and do all of the skill quests for such low levels, but if you do, the additional skill quests from nm/hell would most certainly help maximize the damage a lld can do.

In addition, the life quests, etc. (esem's tome?)

of course
but sometimes you actually dont need them
(e.g charger - you dont have any place to spend the additional points, unless you put some in defense auras)

60life from the bird quest (forgot name) is very useful, but the bird spawns so randomly and you get exp when you kill :/
tome book is nice

I need to get my char rushed to hell den at least, to maximize the damage

[goomba]

of course
but sometimes you actually dont need them
(e.g charger - you dont have any place to spend the additional points, unless you put some in defense auras)

60life from the bird quest (forgot name) is very useful, but the bird spawns so randomly and you get exp when you kill :/
tome book is nice

I need to get my char rushed to hell den at least, to maximize the damage

but do you get exp when deathwatching another make the kill for the quests?
in my experience, usually no. it's how one see's lvl 1's in hell act 4...

[ShadHoe]

Im trying to get my LLD rushed through hell at level 1 so i dont get any extra exp from the skill quests through norm, get all the quests and then level up.
Ill have my LLD done during the day, Account ShadHoe1 lld char PzK-LLD

[goomba]

Im trying to get my LLD rushed through hell at level 1 so i dont get any extra exp from the skill quests through norm, get all the quests and then level up.
Ill have my LLD done during the day, Account ShadHoe1 lld char PzK-LLD

you didn't mention a realm/mode, time usually on, and/or if you were willing to offer anything up for the rush.

of course that's all information where it'd likely end up being moved to the stickied "help thread"

[ShadHoe]

Im getting rushed by a few friends, but it will be completed later on in the day. USEast, will be on majority of the day, pacific timezone. Zealer LLD. Still trying to figure out if i should look for tri res boots or just go with gores for this build.

[Akukami]

do 3socket helmets with level 15 req exist? where did you get it?

Yes they do.

- Akukami

[WarlockCC]

You should make that summoner, Fledgeling, they can do quite well.
Dig around normal cows for a 3 sock mask (23 str req), great helm (63 Str req) or a crown (55 Str req). Those three are without a level req and go up to 3 socks.

[fledgeling]

Ive collected some items (for example iro's torch and infernal tools), but I still miss a +3 skeleton +3 mastery wand (the dream would be +3skeleton mage or +3bone armor)
actually I found a +3/+3 wand once, but I gave it away to my friend

Im thinking about level 16? sigon shield + twitch + tarn + etlich (+3skills), hopefully +3 from a wand
still Im not sure if this character could work, maybe he should use a gnasher too? :D

Warlock, use your azurewrath, make a zealot
maybe use the good old sigon for nice block :-)

[WarlockCC]

Gnasher Zealot might work better then a Azurewrath. Unfortunately I am not swimming in Gnashers like some people who find a Gnasher every other treestump.
Clegzealer could also work.

[Akukami]

Im thinking about level 16? sigon shield + twitch + tarn + etlich (+3skills), hopefully +3 from a wand
still Im not sure if this character could work....

It will work if you know how to play it correctly. I'm not sure if I posted it here, but look around for my Level 15 Summoner LLD.

For Level 16, I would've used:

Helmet: Tarnhelm
Weapon: +3 Raise Skeleton, +3 Skeleton Mastery, +1 Bone Wall (my old wand)
Shield: Sigon's Guard
Armor: Twitchthroe
Gloves: Bloodfist
Boots: Treads of Cthon
Belt: Death's Guard
Rings: FCR Resist Rings x 2
Amulet: The Eye of Etlich

- Akukami

[fledgeling]

the ultimate weapon (apart from gnasher?) would be a level 9 (12?) required battle hammer with poison damage :-)
but I think my maul charger could still kill him, not really sure, never duelled any chargers :/


http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=431501&highlight=summoner
why do you use 2angelic rings? for the 40hp boost?

you dont fight with your necromancer do you?
the skeletons do the killing, or are the poison mages your best summon?

Warlock - I have a character used to find low level items (broc gloves, iro's wand, gnasher etc). What a pity I lost 1 gnasher during muling :(

[Dwade]

Whats considered good damage for an LLD pike?
Preferably with an under 20 lvl req

[WarlockCC]

If you are thinking LLD pike, you must be thinking LLD charger.
If you are thinking LLD charger, you may want a level 12-ish charger. (Angelics)
At that level a pike with 100 or more damage is good.
If you go over 17 with a charger you will have to deal with higher levels. As in level 30 and over WW barbs, Orb sorcs, maybe even FoHs and Spear/spirit necros.

[fledgeling]

maul is better than any pike in my opinion
of course it means that you sacrifce some life (pike is 60/45, while maul is 99str), but you get much more minimum damage
a 107max pike has 250minumum damage
my maul has 500 minimum damage

in addition the 2nd hit with pike, when knockback doesnt work is really slow, while with maul it is pretty quick (especially with 30ias from sigon gloves)

[Akukami]

the ultimate weapon (apart from gnasher?) would be a level 9 (12?) required battle hammer with poison damage :-)
but I think my maul charger could still kill him, not really sure, never duelled any chargers :/


http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=431501&highlight=summoner
why do you use 2angelic rings? for the 40hp boost?

you dont fight with your necromancer do you?
the skeletons do the killing, or are the poison mages your best summon?

Er, why would I want to fight w/ my Nec? Unless I'm suicidal, I prefer to let my pets kill for me. When summoning Mages, I usually pick up 2 Cold and 1 Poison. And yes, I wore dual Angies for the Life boost.

- Akukami

[Dwade]

Whats the best class to beat chargers? My ranger and smiter can handle just about every class, except for ww barbs with my smiter, but i cant beat any charger with decent skill.
Oh and has any1 ever tried a jab amazon for LLD? Thinking maybe they could be effective with crushing blow and open wounds. Would be nice to have a low lvl dueler that isn't a pally lol.

[fledgeling]

does one of the masteries add to the damage of throwing weapons?

[Rawly]

does one of the masteries add to the damage of throwing weapons?

hmm i'm a 100% but maybe throwing mastery adds to the damage of throwing weapons !

[fledgeling]

uh but does "spear mastery" (not sure about the english name) add the damage of spears, harpoons etc?

[Rawly]

uh but does "spear mastery" (not sure about the english name) add the damage of spears, harpoons etc?

check out the Arreat Summit for what weapons are spears, throwing spears such as harpoons are infact javelin class weapons so spear mastery doesnt work on those. Spear mastery does work on pure spear class weapons which are the large 2 handed weapons such as pikes and lances.

[Akukami]

Whats the best class to beat chargers?

Necromancer.

- Akukami

[Dwade]

Whats the best armor for a LLD charger w/ a shield? Blinkbats or Twitch?

[quadeddie]

the ultimate weapon (apart from gnasher?) would be a level 9 (12?) required battle hammer with poison damage :-)
but I think my maul charger could still kill him, not really sure, never duelled any chargers :/


http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=431501&highlight=summoner
why do you use 2angelic rings? for the 40hp boost?

you dont fight with your necromancer do you?
the skeletons do the killing, or are the poison mages your best summon?

Warlock - I have a character used to find low level items (broc gloves, iro's wand, gnasher etc). What a pity I lost 1 gnasher during muling :(

gnasher's are good for lld? (what about crushflange or bloodcresent)? Huh, I've been leaving them on the ground or selling - treating them like that rixot keen short sword. Next I'm gonna hear that pelta lunars are godly. :\

[sculpen]

Whats the best armor for a LLD charger w/ a shield? Blinkbats or Twitch?
It depends on what level he is. It also depends on what shield he uses. 16+, if you use Sback, use Twitch, if you use Sig, use Angelic. For 12-15 use Angelic. Assuming you use the rest of the set, 218 defense, 50 mana, and +1 all skills rock harder than any other armor out there.

[sculpen]

Whats considered good damage for an LLD pike?
Preferably with an under 20 lvl req
A level 19 pike can have up to 164 max. This however is nearly impossible to achieve as it requires 2 perfect damage mods and a perfect max mod. You can use this chart to guage whether or not an lld weapon is good damage for its level. Apply these percentages to the base damage of the weapon and see how yours compares.

Req'd Level.........ED%........Min-Max......IAS
9......................70...........4-7
10....................80...........4-10
13....................90...........4-10
14....................90...........4-14
15....................105.........4-14
17....................105.........4-14...........20
18....................105.........8-20
19....................130.........8-20
24....................150.........8-20
26....................150.........8-20...........30

[zaxien]

my lvl 19 pike has 150 dam WITH cold damage to boot :rolleyes:

[ElDrunko]

Is full Deaths a good idea on a LLD Charger? Also, does IAS effect charge?

[sculpen]

Is full Deaths a good idea on a LLD Charger? Also, does IAS effect charge?
You could certainly do worse than full Death's, however I would only recommend it for a character around level 12. The poor physical damage can't compete with higher level rares. It can be effective with a high blocking bone shield or sigon shield. Don't waste such a sweet zealing weapon on a pure charger though. I had a friend who had success with a level 12 zeal/charge LLD using it. It can take down most 2h chargers including fully built LLDs of equal level. It is very effective at LLD vs newbs, however there are better alternatives for LLD vs LLD. The problem with it is the weapon eats up nearly all your stat points. Overall, I would say full Death's is a good entry level setup. On par with full Cleglaw's.

As for IAS and charge, the short answer is no. It can help if your chilled or slowed and you mess up, by clicking ur target while within normal attacking range, by ending the attack faster.

[fledgeling]

IAS is very useful with charge
charge tends to knock enemies back around 50% (or 25%?) of the time
if you WONT knock them back, the time of 2nd attack (standard melee attack) is pathetic, especially with pikes
this means that ias on pike is very useful

but anyway, scrap the pike idea, maul is better (but more str req) - it attacks faster "melee" and has higher minimum damage

if you plan to use a pike, consider the 30ias (and maybe ias on pike too..)

[ElDrunko]

IAS is very useful with charge
charge tends to knock enemies back around 50% (or 25%?) of the time
if you WONT knock them back, the time of 2nd attack (standard melee attack) is pathetic, especially with pikes
this means that ias on pike is very useful


This being said, I suppose my full Deaths, Angelic rings/armor (or should I do Twitch?) is a good idea? What do you guys think I should use in terms of shield/helm/boots? Sigons?

[fledgeling]

both angelic and twitch have some nice pros and cons

in terms of helmet - try biggin


when it comes to maul charger vs pike charger duel
the pike charger can abuse range, it really hurts when he also has cold damage on pike (you need death's then, which is hard, cuz the 10str from sigons is useful)
but a maul is better when you both stand close range, you attack faster


btw is there any other source of cold damge than etlich amu (what is the belt req for cold damage? level 41?)
btw2 what is the base speed of your azurewrath Warlock and how much damage would a zealot using it achive? :D
with it's cold damage and 50% chance (was it?) of double damage, it should be a really nice weapon

[sculpen]

This being said, I suppose my full Deaths, Angelic rings/armor (or should I do Twitch?) is a good idea? What do you guys think I should use in terms of shield/helm/boots? Sigons?
We need to know what level this character is going to be. I'm assuming above level 15 since you inquire about twitch. I say use Twitch/Sback. The dual stats will help you use Death's and the Wounds will help the low physical damage. For helm and boots, you need sigons for the ar and mana.

@fledgeling: Cold belts are indeed 41 and the only sources of cold damage in lld are Etlich, your weapon, Arctic set, Death's set, Shadowfang, Gleamscythe, Axe of Fetchmar, Gems, and Azurewrath if your non ladder. Azurewrath, btw, rocks hard and they need to bring it back to classic ladder.:sunny:

[fledgeling]

I absolutely forgot about Shadowfang
is this the one which has dual mana/life leech 4-10%?
it seems to be a pretty good thing for a barb :O
one gnasher + one shadowfang? :D

we need to encourage warlock to make an azurewrath-zealot :D

btw. sculpen, would you like to meet some time, or something, we could chat a bit and watch each other's LLDs

at the moment Im experimenting with gems
but it's hard to find level 15 req 6socket flails (only found a 5socket one)
Im not sure which kind of gem would be best
1saphire obviously
and maybe 1ruby for stun, if it even works?
4emeralds for poison
or 4topazes for high damage?

emeralds are kinda blocked by death's tho
rubies are blocked by resists from angelics
so topazes? (sigon helmet?)
or maybe even 6saphires? (people tend to stack cold resists tho)

[goomba]

I absolutely forgot about Shadowfang
is this the one which has dual mana/life leech 4-10%?
it seems to be a pretty good thing for a barb :O
one gnasher + one shadowfang? :D

we need to encourage warlock to make an azurewrath-zealot :D

btw. sculpen, would you like to meet some time, or something, we could chat a bit and watch each other's LLDs

at the moment Im experimenting with gems
but it's hard to find level 15 req 6socket flails (only found a 5socket one)
Im not sure which kind of gem would be best
1saphire obviously
and maybe 1ruby for stun, if it even works?
4emeralds for poison
or 4topazes for high damage?

emeralds are kinda blocked by death's tho
rubies are blocked by resists from angelics
so topazes? (sigon helmet?)
or maybe even 6saphires? (people tend to stack cold resists tho)

I thought someone posted a link to the summit or something showing that 6 socket flails didn't exist? :confused:

I know I've never found one, and I've found multiple 6 sockets of many different types of weapons, from bows, to exes to nagas, to marts...

[ElDrunko]

We need to know what level this character is going to be. I'm assuming above level 15 since you inquire about twitch. I say use Twitch/Sback. The dual stats will help you use Death's and the Wounds will help the low physical damage. For helm and boots, you need sigons for the ar and mana.

@fledgeling: Cold belts are indeed 41 and the only sources of cold damage in lld are Etlich, your weapon, Arctic set, Death's set, Shadowfang, Gleamscythe, Axe of Fetchmar, Gems, and Azurewrath if your non ladder. Azurewrath, btw, rocks hard and they need to bring it back to classic ladder.:sunny:

I mentioned on the other page that I'm going to be lvl 16. Thanks for all the help.

[fledgeling]

1handed zeal/charge synergies are hella good :D

[sculpen]

1handed zeal/charge synergies are hella good :D
They are indeed! Imo, 1h zeal/charge is the strongest build overall from 12-24. At the time I was banned from bnet (a couple weeks ago), I had the strongest level 12 on West ladder. He even beat 2 friends level 12s at the same time, while they shared Blessed Aim and Might. These were his stats:

Armor/Amulet/Rings: Angelic
Gloves/Helm/Shield: Sigon
Belt: Hsaru with Death's on backup
Boots: Hsaru with Sigon's for use with Death Sash
Weapon: War Hammer, 28-53, +5 Str, 100+ ar

Life: 305
Zeal AR: 981
Zeal Dmg: 96-182
Def: 400+

War Hammers are so ridiculously overpowered that they beat other faster weapons in damage over time. This was by far the best level 12 I've made, and as you can see, its not super imaginative, and I'm sure its been done plenty of times in the past. I only supplied it with a full normal rush. My suggestion is to use that gear and the biggest war hammer you can find. Also this setup is helped greatly by keeping the biggest maul you can find on switch to deal with smiters and other things where a shield is not needed.
I only claim him as the best because although he had been beaten by other level 12s, he was never beaten in a Best of 10 match.:hide:

[NPPapitoiv]

I love low level duels, im dueling on normal all nights...
I got some lld chars, a lvl 12 charger, a lvl 26 or 26 (i dont remember) invisible zealer (so funny), lvl 26 bowazon, lvl 26 lightin zon, a lvl 30 hdin, lvl 30 bone necro and my lvl 30 BvAll (i love him). I think its all, im makin a lvl 18 sorc now...

Te cheapest char u can make is a lld charger, i use biggins, angelic armor, ammy and rings, hsarus boots and belt, bfists (godliest item for lld), some 10/30/20 bshield and some cheap 50+ whammer. U can use a nice pike with same stuff and its ok too, and its a lot of fun...

[WarlockCC]

Tell me a bit more about your bowazon if you wouldn't mind sharing your secrets. I've been interested in making a LLD bowazon for a while, but could never get a 'working' version out of the calc.

I should remake my charger some time so he also has zeal for close combat and people that use a shield.

[NPPapitoiv]

Tell me a bit more about your bowazon if you wouldn't mind sharing your secrets. I've been interested in making a LLD bowazon for a while, but could never get a 'working' version out of the calc.

I should remake my charger some time so he also has zeal for close combat and people that use a shield.


Well, i never use my zon now, i got it from 09. But if u want a good zon, u just need an harp (cheap now) and the rest is simple: Biggins, death sash and gloves, eye ammy for cold dmg, some treads or other 30frw boots, twitch (obviously) and some rings...
U could make a better one if u can pay for it ussin sshell, some duped boots and rings (i like bcircles cuz high cr or that one with 9dex and 28lr)...

[Akukami]

How does one go about making a Zeal/Charge combo in terms of placing Skill points? It's the only LLD I haven't mastered yet. O, and I'm thinking of one at Level 19 with 1 point into each of the resists.

- Akukami

[Eilo Rytyj]

I thought someone posted a link to the summit or something showing that 6 socket flails didn't exist? :confused:

I know I've never found one, and I've found multiple 6 sockets of many different types of weapons, from bows, to exes to nagas, to marts...

Flails can only get 5 sockets. IIRC Military Picks/Crowbills can get 6 sockets, and have the same base speed as flails.

[Monzee]

made myself a pike charger today at lvl 15 and all I can say is wow :shocked:

With his astonishing 1k dmg and 17xx ar 374 life and 100 mana, he has pwned all of his opponents so far.. hehe.. Think ill get hooked on this LLD

[PFS]

Edit - Ignore.

Thought this was newcomer rather than classic. Don't knwo what you guys have going on in classic.

Do Level 18 Frostzealots work?

[fledgeling]

never seen any on level 18
however I have seen the "slow-down" frost zealot
using tandoliga, cleglaw's glows and holy freeze

his damage was pretty good, but also quite random (tandoliga has something like 2-54 dmg?)
wonder if a charger could hunt him down? technically he is using a shield, so he could survive the first hit, use own charge and slow down the poor opponent

but charger vs charger duels are pretty boring

wonder how a fight between two of these would look like..

speaking of LLDs
Ive seen some level 26 javazon who was very good

wonder if a "technician" - this is avenger could work, he would have defense auras vs every type of damage, could use charge to get close to the enemies (perhaps even holy shield)
on the other hand a zealot would probably kill him easily, because he could slow him down

[Fists of War]

(tandoliga has something like 2-54 dmg?)


Hmm 2-54 cold damage? That is random, but also IMO far too low for LLD (or was it a typo?). With my lvl 19 zealer I do 110-190 zeal damage, which is enough to take out those opponents that aren't really built for LLD very easily (In other words beginners that have just started playing :azn: ) but not enough to get chars like Mr_Friendly (lvl 12 LLD charge/zealer I think?) down to more then 2/3 health before I die.
Considering that's physical damage, with a cold zealer going up against another LLD who had around 50%+ cold res (not hard), the cold zealer's damage would be reduced significantly...just something to think about when choosing cold over physical damage, though I suppose holy freeze does a great job of chilling opponents (but not when they are wearing full deaths set, which has CBF...). Anyway have fun with any LLD's you try, that 'technician' sounds cool, I'd like to duel him sometime...

[PFS]

never seen any on level 18
however I have seen the "slow-down" frost zealot
using tandoliga, cleglaw's glows and holy freeze


On Expansion, or non-classic or whatever it is called they work very very nicely, I'm not sure how well they would transfer over to classic but the gear is:

Clegs Sword.
Pally Shield
Twitch Armor.
Angelics.
Deaths Belt+Gloves
Cow King Boots (although several other boots also work very nicely - do you have Cow set in Classic?)
3os Mask

Everything that can be socketed has +Max Jewels crammed in, which I don't think you have on classic...

Skills are:
1 in Holy Freeze (+pre-req)
1 in charge (+pre req)
Max Zeal for Level
Rest in Sacrafice.

[Rawly]

though I suppose holy freeze does a great job of chilling opponents (but not when they are wearing full deaths set, which has CBF...). Anyway have fun with any LLD's you try, that 'technician' sounds cool, I'd like to duel him sometime...

Slight technical point deaths cbf doesnt stop holy freeze from slowing you down as holy freeze doesnt count as cold.

also for pfs no cow kings set in classic only have normal sets and unqiues no exceptionals or elite class. Also as you say no jewels in classic either.

[WarlockCC]

Note that full hsarus also gives cannot be frozen as a golden set bonus. This will also not protect you from Holy freeze. Iirc, any monster, regardless of cold immunity is affected by Holy Freeze. If they are not cold immune they will also take damage from the holy freeze (Quite low damage)

[PFS]

Note that full hsarus also gives cannot be frozen as a golden set bonus. This will also not protect you from Holy freeze.

And herin lies the awesomeness of a HF Zealot.

If you don't get jewels maybe use clegs gloves for the +Damage set bonus (as well as some nice extra slow)

[Fists of War]

Oh well there goes my protection against cold zealers...
But onto the damage they would put out, how much? More than you would expect a standard zealer to do? And a clarification is needed here: In PvP does the damage done get scaled back to 1/6th or 1/4?

[WarlockCC]

Oh well there goes my protection against cold zealers...
But onto the damage they would put out, how much? More than you would expect a standard zealer to do? And a clarification is needed here: In PvP does the damage done get scaled back to 1/6th or 1/4?
A HF zealer would have the normal zeal damage + the damage from the Holy Freeze aura + the damage added to melee attacks by the aura. But with a normal zealer you would have a +damage aura like might, or if you are going for a mid-level dueler, you could have access to conc at level 18.
With a HF dueler, you wouldn't need a high damage weapon though, you could go for a fast weapon like a Scimitar, perhaps a blood crescent.

You can actually get a bit of defence against the Holy Freeze aura. Either get lots of cold resist and half freeze duration on as much items as possible, or be lame and chuck down a thawing potion after every freezewave (once per 2 seconds).

Damage in pvp gets reduced to one sixth of it's normal value.
Though I vaguely recall reading somewhere that poison doesn't have this reduction, I have not tested this with poison, nor had it confirmed by many others. Perhaps somebody with knowledge of poison, like the writer of the tao, will pop into this thread and enlighten us. :)

[PFS]

Oh well there goes my protection against cold zealers...
But onto the damage they would put out, how much? More than you would expect a standard zealer to do? And a clarification is needed here: In PvP does the damage done get scaled back to 1/6th or 1/4?

A LLD HF zealot will not do all that much less physical damage than a might/conc zealot as you will only have a level 3 might or a level 1 conc at level 18 - which gets added in with the rest of your off weapon/skill ED%.

The HF is more to slow your opponent and reduce their damage output by killing their breakpoints. Though it adds a tiny amount of cold damage at level 18.

At higher levels you can get really quite high cold damage from HF.

Damage is scaled by 1/6.

[Fists of War]

Oh, but in a HF zealer wouldn't almost all of your points go in HF/ HF synergy, as well as the required 4 in zeal? My Pally at lvl 20 has: 4 zeal, 10 sacrifice and 3 conc, which seems hard for a HF pally to match that physical damage...
And as for the poison, I'm not anexpert but with psn nova damage reaching 5-10k in LOD, that would be a 1 hit KO for almost any character which seams a little overbalanced.

[PFS]

Oh, but in a HF zealer wouldn't almost all of your points go in HF/ HF synergy, as well as the required 4 in zeal? My Pally at lvl 20 has: 4 zeal, 10 sacrifice and 3 conc, which seems hard for a HF pally to match that physical damage...
Ah - but this is for LLD. At level 18 it is only possible to put a single point into HF, and there is no point in putting any into the synergies at such a low level.

My skill layout for a level 18 Frostzealot is: Max Zeal for level 18, 1 in HF+pre req, 1 in charge+pre req and the rest in Sacrafice. (this assumes you have hellrushed your char).

I max zeal for better AR vs higher level characters, but some prefer to just put in enough for 5 hits.

Now - the HF zealot will be doing less damage/hit - rather than about 288%ED from skills/synergies you will only have 228%ED. Say your weapon damage is 50 the Might/Conc Zealot will do 194/hit while the HF zealot will do 164/hit (before PvP penalty), so about 18%less damage/hit. BUT the big bonus for the HF zealot is that the might zealot has almost certinally lost a break point in their attack speed and will AFAIK also have slower hit recovery and block rates and less manoverability - which in my experience in LLD more than makes up for the 18% lower physical damage.

The HF Aura is NOT there to improve your damage. It is there to lower your opponents damage output and reduce their fighting ability.

I am actually considering making a Classic dueler - all my experience is from Expansion dueling. Are there many LLD classic duelers on Europe here? Or will I have to go East?

In case you are wondering about the damage a higher level HF zealot can get - (Assuming sunergies are the same for Classic as they are for Expansion...) a HF zealot with maxed HF+synergies (with no +skills) will be doing about 1000 Cold Damage/hit and 200 Cold Damage to every monster/player on screen each HF pulse (modified by PvP penalty), while also slowing your opponents by 54%. Which is not really that bad.

As to poison - I am 99% certain it also gets the PvP penalty. Although the massive damage looks great you have to consider: PvP penalty/Resists/Poison Length Reduction/Damage per second.

Say you do 10,000 poison damage over 10 seconds and your opponent has 75% resist and 50% poison length reduction - after all the reductions that will only be 212 PvP damage on them over 5 seconds - which will be over several seconds - giving about 40 damage/second. If they chug an antidote potion it will only be 63PvP damage over 2.5 seconds - a damage rate of only 20/second :sad2: This is not to say poison is not a good PvP skill, but that you really need to consider resists and time in looking at damage output.

[WarlockCC]

I'll do some testing when I can with my poison necro and post the results here.
Like I typed in my earlier post, I just read it somewhere, I didn't get any confirmation anywhere.

[fledgeling]

my level 40 MF holy schock zealot (with BAD gear on) easily killed all players in few duel games, but he stands no chances vs a real dueller methinks (a WW barb or fire sorc)

not sure what would happen if I actually had proper gear on him (goldskin perhaps + few points in holy shield) and maybe nokozan+hotspurrs

his 3500 ligthing damage cut through most people easily

on the other hand, when I tried a similar char on Europe on Warlock's secret level 30 duel barb I died instantly :D

[WarlockCC]

My evuhl nekkid barb. Can't quite remember if he has any res though. But indeed, as you stated WW is usually bad news for zealers and smiters.

[forumfreak]

My evuhl nekkid barb. Can't quite remember if he has any res though. But indeed, as you stated WW is usually bad news for zealers and smiters.

thats glitched right?

i seen a few people like that. i seen a zon that looked nekkis but was able to throw magic arrows. LOL looked like she was throwing them with her hands!! can someone elaborate more on how to do that? or has an example? i know its putting gear on person then taking +stats off right? so then the gear you have "on" will be red. but when i do that... i cant use my attacks. :(

[PFS]

thats glitched right?

i seen a few people like that. i seen a zon that looked nekkis but was able to throw magic arrows. LOL looked like she was throwing them with her hands!! can someone elaborate more on how to do that? or has an example? i know its putting gear on person then taking +stats off right? so then the gear you have "on" will be red. but when i do that... i cant use my attacks. :(

Any gear that you are only able to carry due to strength/dex on charms will not show up on your opponents screen, however it will show up on your own screen. You don't have charms on classic do you? (got a bit to research before moving over!) If you can glitch this on classic maybe it also works when you can only carry the item in question due to +strength on that item.

This glitch also produces some other 'fun' effects such as making your character invisible during certain animation frames for some attacks - such as Double Throw Barbs and some Kickasin attacks, and as mentioned bowazons appear to throw/punch their arrows. Try any of these in Pub dueling and you get "HAX!! HAX!!" from the unwashed masses.

[forumfreak]

Any gear that you are only able to carry due to strength/dex on charms will not show up on your opponents screen, however it will show up on your own screen. You don't have charms on classic do you? (got a bit to research before moving over!) If you can glitch this on classic maybe it also works when you can only carry the item in question due to +strength on that item.

This glitch also produces some other 'fun' effects such as making your character invisible during certain animation frames for some attacks - such as Double Throw Barbs and some Kickasin attacks, and as mentioned bowazons appear to throw/punch their arrows. Try any of these in Pub dueling and you get "HAX!! HAX!!" from the unwashed masses.

interesting!! but too bad we dont have charms in classic.... or is that a good thing? anyways, do you have any idea on builds for it? will twitch help me do it? i still am kinda confused about how it works. :-\ can you tell me a step by step on how to do it someone?

[fledgeling]

my LLD throwbarb will be naked then..

[Fists of War]

I am actually considering making a Classic dueler - all my experience is from Expansion dueling. Are there many LLD classic duelers on Europe here? Or will I have to go East?


Welcome to Classic LLD then, if you decide to go ahead. How is LLd in LOD? Can't say I'd fancy it myself with all those charms...
And about LLDers on Europe? Can't say for sure, never played there. East or West would be better, probably east but I play on West. Theres actually a few that I know on West, like Sculpen who has all the Mr chars. If you come west I'll duel you anytime, just add me: *FullPlate




Say you do 10,000 poison damage over 10 seconds and your opponent has 75% resist and 50% poison length reduction - after all the reductions that will only be 212 PvP damage on them over 5 seconds - which will be over several seconds - giving about 40 damage/second. If they chug an antidote potion it will only be 63PvP damage over 2.5 seconds - a damage rate of only 20/second :sad2: This is not to say poison is not a good PvP skill, but that you really need to consider resists and time in looking at damage output.

Huh...63 per second? Then how are Venomancers even viable then? Maybe if you get someone nice they will play without psn reduction gear and antidotes, but still...

Anyway I thought I'd put a few LLD builds out there, can anyone with experience of them tell me there experiences/whether they are viable or not?

1. Concentrate barb (lvl 24), points in ironskin, shout, BO, conc, wep mastery.

2. Holy Fire Ranger (lvl 12?), as many points in holy fire as poosible, then rest in synergy. Maybe use full Arctic Set?

3. Charged Strike Zon, er not sure what skills cept for strike itself...

4. Cold Sorc (lvl 12) as many points in ice blast as possible, 1 warmth, rest in synergies. Maybe get static field? Though it's probably nerfed in PvP, it might be handy. I spent about an hour making a lvl 9 one in SP, with no twinking she managed 50-60 cold damage, that's with a crappy skill placement and no rush. With say full Hell rush, lvl 15, and eye of etlich/good +3 ice blast/other mods/other good gear, she would be doing well over 100 damage, and would be insane for slowing people down...

Thanks for any replies :)

[WarlockCC]

Welcome to Classic LLD then, if you decide to go ahead. How is LLd in LOD? Can't say I'd fancy it myself with all those charms...
And about LLDers on Europe? Can't say for sure, never played there. East or West would be better
"I don't know what it's like over there, but I know it is better where I play."
You are not Chuck Norris, so you can't make this assumption.

, probably east but I play on West. Theres actually a few that I know on West, like Sculpen who has all the Mr chars. If you come west I'll duel you anytime, just add me: *FullPlate



Huh...63 per second? Then how are Venomancers even viable then? Maybe if you get someone nice they will play without psn reduction gear and antidotes, but still...

Anyway I thought I'd put a few LLD builds out there, can anyone with experience of them tell me there experiences/whether they are viable or not?

1. Concentrate barb (lvl 24), points in ironskin, shout, BO, conc, wep mastery.

2. Holy Fire Ranger (lvl 12?), as many points in holy fire as poosible, then rest in synergy. Maybe use full Arctic Set?


Deals damage every 2 Seconds
Range: 8 Yards
Fire damage: 12 - 18 (ø15.5)
Fire Damage To Attack: 75 - 113 (ø94.5)
[Synergy] Resist Fire: +216% Fire damage (18% / Lvl)
[Synergy] Salvation: +0% Fire damage (6% / Lvl)

So you'd be doing about 13-19 pvp fire damage from the holy fire skill if the target has no resists and you attack melee.
Supposing the target uses a crushflange, that damage is halved, perhaps with a nokozan, leaving a quarter of your damage.
I think Holy Fire might not be the way to go for a level 12.
At least at level 15 with a ravenclaw it gets a little bit more viable, that is, if the Holy fire damage gets transferred onto the explosions.(I don't remember if it does)



3. Charged Strike Zon, er not sure what skills cept for strike itself...

4. Cold Sorc (lvl 12) as many points in ice blast as possible, 1 warmth, rest in synergies. Maybe get static field? Though it's probably nerfed in PvP, it might be handy. I spent about an hour making a lvl 9 one in SP, with no twinking she managed 50-60 cold damage, that's with a crappy skill placement and no rush. With say full Hell rush, lvl 15, and eye of etlich/good +3 ice blast/other mods/other good gear, she would be doing well over 100 damage, and would be insane for slowing people down...

Thanks for any replies :)
I have considered such a zon myself, I think 16 would be a good level.

As for number four, for every duel, you'd need a 4 row belt full of manapotions at least. That is, if they don't have any res. That 50-60 cold damage should be divided by 6 for the pvp damage.

To get back to the topic at hand, yes, there definitely is LLD going on on Europe. I don't know if it's better to be on Asia, East, Europe or West, since I just know Europe, thus I can only confirm that you will find challengers on Euro aswell.

[Fists of War]

Yah suppose I can't just say 'no LLDers on Eur', as they are everyhwere really :). Just about my cold sorc idea, at the moment I'm checking potential damage with a calc, so I'll be post with my results...

[Fists of War]

Okay...sorc with full hell rush and 1pt warmth:

ICE BLAST DAMAGE

lvl 15 cold sorc w/o items = 187-205 (avg: 196)
with +3 ice blast/+3 warmth staff+eye of etlich = 310-333 (avg: 321.5)

lvl 24 cold sorc with teleport (probably not viable due to lack of FCR/mana) = 473-499 (avg: 486)

with above gear = 658-689 (avg: 673.5)

Drop the teleport and warmth (still got +3 from staff) and with gear and maybe tarnhelm = 800-835 (avg: 817.5)

Then if you want to overdo it get lvl 29, 2 soj's, maybe +1 skills ammy and staff (available at lvl 29???) and you're looking at around 1200 avg damage!

The lvl 29 will probably never run out of mana with frostburns/soj's/heavenly garb plate. But it's kind of overkill (the level that is) for LLD. however the lvl 15 does 50 PvP damage, not to shabby and the lvl 25 without tele does about 135 PvP damage. Again pretty good. The mana will be a problem, but with warmth on at least lvl 3, and 2x manald heal at lower lvl's should be semi-okay. What do you think? After Res is factored in, the damage will be a lot less, but still not too bad. Anyway I've been wanting to figure that damage out for a long time ...:)

[WarlockCC]

All I can say is build it, test it and let us know how it went. :)
The numbers sound good, but you'll have to see if you can amass enough skillpoints at level 15.

[PFS]

Okay...sorc with full hell rush and 1pt warmth:

ICE BLAST DAMAGE

lvl 15 cold sorc w/o items = 187-205 (avg: 196)
with +3 ice blast/+3 warmth staff+eye of etlich = 310-333 (avg: 321.5)

lvl 24 cold sorc with teleport (probably not viable due to lack of FCR/mana) = 473-499 (avg: 486)

with above gear = 658-689 (avg: 673.5)

Drop the teleport and warmth (still got +3 from staff) and with gear and maybe tarnhelm = 800-835 (avg: 817.5)

Then if you want to overdo it get lvl 29, 2 soj's, maybe +1 skills ammy and staff (available at lvl 29???) and you're looking at around 1200 avg damage!

The lvl 29 will probably never run out of mana with frostburns/soj's/heavenly garb plate. But it's kind of overkill (the level that is) for LLD. however the lvl 15 does 50 PvP damage, not to shabby and the lvl 25 without tele does about 135 PvP damage. Again pretty good. The mana will be a problem, but with warmth on at least lvl 3, and 2x manald heal at lower lvl's should be semi-okay. What do you think? After Res is factored in, the damage will be a lot less, but still not too bad. Anyway I've been wanting to figure that damage out for a long time ...:)

The two big problems you will have are:

Deaths Sash - 'Cannot Be Frozen' nerfs cold spells as a large part of the trade-off from the lower cold damage compared to fire and light is that Cold spells also slow your opponent - which will not happen if they have something with CBF.

Resists - It is quite likely your opponent will have 75% Resist (3 Flawless Saphires (Level 15) in a shield will give them 72% resist cold with no other gear, bringing your damage down from ~50 to ~13 (For your level 15) and from 135 down to ~34 for your level 25. If they chug a thawing potion it will be even less :( On the other hand - if you get to Level 30 you can put a point in Cold Mastery which will solve a lot of problems with opponents resistances.

As to your earlier question on LOD vs Classic - for LLD almost all the gear choices are identical - particulary for Melee chars. LOD has Charms and Jewels which increase life and damage, so although everyone has more damage your opponent also has much more life - so it balances out quite a bit. The only real gear difference is that rather than socketing PRubies in everything you socket +15Max jewels.

[Fists of War]

All I can say is build it, test it and let us know how it went. :)
The numbers sound good, but you'll have to see if you can amass enough skillpoints at level 15.

Will do, but the overall damage will probably be less for me, unless I can con someone into a hell rush I won't be getting even +4 extra skillpoints anytime soon. I might make it on Europe, if that guy who said he might make an LLD on classic stays with Europe then that'd be cool. By the way do you duel at all (LLD or high-lvl) on classic warlock?

[Fists of War]

PFS snuck in a post while I was typing...and kind of burst my bubble. Anytime I seem to have a good idea with elemental damage Resists pop up and ruin everything. Level 30 might be a bit high to go just for cold mastery though, so any -cold res items on classic?

[PFS]

PFS snuck in a post while I was typing...and kind of burst my bubble. Anytime I seem to have a good idea with elemental damage Resists pop up and ruin everything. Level 30 might be a bit high to go just for cold mastery though, so any -cold res items on classic?

Don't let that put you off thinking of new ideas though - Until a couple of days ago I had an awesome idea for a LLD Level 29 Holy Frost Smiter (on LOD) doing about 600 Cold Damage, ~20-600Light Damage with some poison combined with Open Wounds and additional Slow from Clegs. It was going to be awesome - Average ~900 elemental damage/hit (before PvP penalty), 75% Slow and Open Wounds to help with the physical component. And then I found out that no elemental damage gets added to smite. :cry:

[WarlockCC]

I have a few low level duelers on Euro SC NL, yes.
A level 9 pala, 12 pala, and a couple of 16's(barb and pala). (I might forget some)
Just to get rid of those people that feel the need to bring a level 30-50-ish WW barb into a LLD game, I also have a level 30 barb.
As for higher level, I rarely duel. Usually only with friends or when annoyed while questing/leveling.

If you do make that Iceblast sorc on Euro sc nl, I can help you trough at least norm and nm for the skillquests.

[Fists of War]

Don't let that put you off thinking of new ideas though - Until a couple of days ago I had an awesome idea for a LLD Level 29 Holy Frost Smiter (on LOD) doing about 600 Cold Damage, ~20-600Light Damage with some poison combined with Open Wounds and additional Slow from Clegs. It was going to be awesome - Average ~900 elemental damage/hit (before PvP penalty), 75% Slow and Open Wounds to help with the physical component. And then I found out that no elemental damage gets added to smite. :cry:


Heh Heh Yeah I saw that post of yours asking about things transferred to smite. I can't be bothered repeating myself and can't really remember what I said but I did reply to that thread with an idea...

Now onto my next LLd idea...poison daggermancer...I'll do the maths again but I suspect with little synergies available and no godly gear on my part it won't be the best idea.

ight still go with the sorc idea, thanks for the offer to help warlock, I might just take you up on that one :azn:

!!! HUNDREDTH POST !!! time to celebrate with a fancy smilie :prop:

[fledgeling]

I havent calculated the numbers
but dont forget that "real" LLDs often use death's gloves+belt
which gives you HUGE poison resistance




2. Holy Fire Ranger (lvl 12?), as many points in holy fire as poosible, then rest in synergy. Maybe use full Arctic Set?


I havent finished mine (he misses nightmare and hell skill points) and I use twitch+raven claw + tarn+eye(for cold damage)
he does around 170damage and can kill the normal players easily

versus other LLDs?

You run away from them, 30FRW boots are essential (still not sure if 30rw can spawn on level 15 boots, apart from the unique ones)
you might need some stamina potions

ps a charger will catch you



3. Charged Strike Zon, er not sure what skills cept for strike itself...


one of the most powerful LLDs I met were such zons around level 24


I play on europe NL too, but recently very rarely (no time, bad connection at the dorm, gonna start work soon..)

[WarlockCC]

Another idea to transfer your elemental damage onto a target might be a javalin or throwing daggers. You can use them ranged and you can still use a shield then. Just popped into my head thinking about the chargers catching you.
Any thoughts on that ? Using 1h ranged weapons to transfer your holy fire/lightning/freeze damage onto the target.

[Fists of War]

Another idea to transfer your elemental damage onto a target might be a javalin or throwing daggers. You can use them ranged and you can still use a shield then. Just popped into my head thinking about the chargers catching you.
Any thoughts on that ? Using 1h ranged weapons to transfer your holy fire/lightning/freeze damage onto the target.


Yeah thought about that, that build's basically known as the dragoon. Jav's for range, 30/20 barbed shield + holy shield = high def, high block etc... If I made one it would be a lvl 24 cold dragoon, with holy shield and Smite, since holy shield would boost your smite a fair bit...
Anyway I was gonna make my ice blast sorc on Eur NL but when I went in there there was like 1 game with 1 person in it called 'Poland'! So I thought I would just make it on west where I have some items already, albeit crap ones :).

[WarlockCC]

I shall now tempt you with an offer :

On Euro I could get your sorc all the skillquests. :)
But, time is a factor here. What time are you usually on and what time zone is that ? Since you only saw one game, I wager it was quite late in the Euro-zone (CET).

For comparison : this post was made at 12:28 CET
(it should state your time at the top of this post).

[Fists of War]

I shall now tempt you with an offer :

On Euro I could get your sorc all the skillquests. :)
But, time is a factor here. What time are you usually on and what time zone is that ? Since you only saw one game, I wager it was quite late in the Euro-zone (CET).

For comparison : this post was made at 12:28 CET
(it should state your time at the top of this post).

Yeah, well I will still probably make it as well on Europe, since I made an identical account on europe for the purpose! On my screen it says your post was made at 22:28, which IS 12:28 your time...but since You could only have posted between my last post and this one, that narrows the time frame to about 10:30 to 11:00 at night, my time. And the time I'm usually on varies greatly, really anytime in the day between 9:00 AM and 9:00 PM. So how does that equate to your time zone? I could go on mostly in whatever time zone you go on, but only if it falls between them two times...
Anyway I can't go on battle.net all day every day, far from it, so I would probably get you to rush me anytime in the next 3 months...:sad2:

But just in case I'm on when you are, what's your account name?

Edit: Just stuffed up my calculations, ^ 22:28 is10:30 PM my time...so I'd say I'm about 2 hours behind you? Is that Am or PM for you?

[fledgeling]

smite's damage is always pathetic, even when you are level 60 or something

you'd rather use an gnasher for open wounds which does MORE damage + crushing blow
actually some of my LLDs rely more on open wounds rather than "normal" damage

[WarlockCC]

But just in case I'm on when you are, what's your account name?

Edit: Just stuffed up my calculations, ^ 22:28 is10:30 PM my time...so I'd say I'm about 2 hours behind you? Is that Am or PM for you?
You made your post at Today, 13:08 my time.
My most rescent account is *CC_goat, but I still frequent the one from the sticky list and *WarlockCC

(I play non-ladder btw :) )

[Fists of War]

Yup I posted at about 11:00, so you are 2 hours ahead....I'll make sure I add you. But if I add you on west, will I still see you enter bnet in Eur?

[WarlockCC]

I am not sure if you will see me join or if I will see you join. I know you can message from open to closed battle.net, but I don't think it works cross-realm.

[Monzee]

Okay finally got my gear together for a lvl 12 double swing barb with a ton of help from Mikk0, thx m8 :thumbsup:

Gear is as following:

2x Deaths swords
Deaths gloves
Deaths belt
Angelic combo + armor
Hsarus boots
3 socketed "normal" ametyst crown

Skills are as following:
2 bash
3 double swing
5 mastery
1 howl
1 shout
(still need the other 3 skill quests in normal)

As level 12 he has 272 life and 71 mana and pulls off 75-135 dmg per hit with 1200 AR :wink2:

Only question I need an answer for is what the breakpoints are for a barb like mine? As you can see I currently have 30% IAS and I feel like im hitting very fast but wouldn't it be fun to hit EVEN faster? :azn:

[WarlockCC]

This is for a barb using a 2 War Swords (deaths) with the double swing attack.

IAS Frames per Attack
0 % 7.5
3 % 7
13 % 6.5
27 % 6
50 % 5.5
89 % 5

You seem to have the 6fpa breakpoint. With a twitch (either prelod or get your char to level 16) you could up that to 5.5 fpa.

[forumfreak]

Okay finally got my gear together for a lvl 12 double swing barb with a ton of help from Mikk0, thx m8 :thumbsup:

Gear is as following:

2x Deaths swords
Deaths gloves
Deaths belt
Angelic combo + armor
Hsarus boots
3 socketed "normal" ametyst crown

Skills are as following:
2 bash
3 double swing
5 mastery
1 howl
1 shout
(still need the other 3 skill quests in normal)

As level 12 he has 272 life and 71 mana and pulls off 75-135 dmg per hit with 1200 AR :wink2:

Only question I need an answer for is what the breakpoints are for a barb like mine? As you can see I currently have 30% IAS and I feel like im hitting very fast but wouldn't it be fun to hit EVEN faster? :azn:

my barb is just like yours... xcept that i use a 3 socket ruby mask for more life and sigon boots for the extra cold resist. but also remember to not go against llders who know your build. all they need is a charger and youre done for... thats where i bring in my lvl 12 death sword basher with a shield :cool:

[Fists of War]

Okay finally got my gear together for a lvl 12 double swing barb with a ton of help from Mikk0, thx m8 :thumbsup:

Gear is as following:

2x Deaths swords
Deaths gloves
Deaths belt
Angelic combo + armor
Hsarus boots
3 socketed "normal" ametyst crown

Skills are as following:
2 bash
3 double swing
5 mastery
1 howl
1 shout
(still need the other 3 skill quests in normal)

As level 12 he has 272 life and 71 mana and pulls off 75-135 dmg per hit with 1200 AR :wink2:

Only question I need an answer for is what the breakpoints are for a barb like mine? As you can see I currently have 30% IAS and I feel like im hitting very fast but wouldn't it be fun to hit EVEN faster? :azn:

Good to see you made an LLD so heres some suggestions...

Have you compared double war hammers to deaths swords? Get a pair with 70%+ ed and you will probably do more damage, especially since it will be physical damage instead of all that cold (resistable damage) on deaths. Also why the 3 amethyst crown? Why not 3 rubies as is the norm? Normal rubies in your crown will push your life well past the 300 mark, and IMO would be better then about 200+ AR from your setup. Good luck anyway!

[Monzee]

well I chose that way because each point invested in vita on a barb gives you 4 extra hp. If I save 18 from strength I will get 18*4 = 74 life as compared to 3*24 = 72 hp. I know it isnt much of a difference but I think I can use that crown more overall for future chars + 2 more hp doensn't hurt either :rolleyes:

[forumfreak]

is there any LLD builds that would stand up to ww barbs around lvl 30?

[Akukami]

Are there any LLD builds that would stand up to ww barbs around lvl 30?

Another WW Barb around Level 30. :grin:

Seriously though, the only other LLD that's able to take them down is a Summoner Necro using IM, Minions, and Bone Walls.

- Akukami

[Dr K]

is there any LLD builds that would stand up to ww barbs around lvl 30?


I have had mixed luck vs. ww barbs with a frost ranger (my name for a holy freeze pally using a bow, typically wizendraw). If the ww barb has little or no cr, they tend to be pretty easy. If they are a speeder with stacked cr, hawkmail and/or a lance, they can be a lot more difficult. Holy freeze makes it easier to avoid their ww, but not very much easier if they use a lance.

Dr. K

[fledgeling]

fireball sorc? (especially level 30 - for mastery)

I still havent tested my bowazon (knockback+bleed)


my smiter level 28 (with goldskin) could go 40-60 vs them
holy shock ranger - but he isnt LLD I think.., still would lose to a good barb

not sure about javas - even at level 26 they can hurt A LOT, that charged strike or whatever + good shield can hurt most of my LLDs

[forumfreak]

thanks for the ideas yall!! maybe i will make n fb sorc for those annoying ww babas


I have had mixed luck vs. ww barbs with a frost ranger (my name for a holy freeze pally using a bow, typically wizendraw). If the ww barb has little or no cr, they tend to be pretty easy. If they are a speeder with stacked cr, hawkmail and/or a lance, they can be a lot more difficult. Holy freeze makes it easier to avoid their ww, but not very much easier if they use a lance.

Dr. K

can you tell me a bit more about your build? skill placement and gear? im thinking twitch, deaths hands n sash, maybe gtoe? or treads?

thanks!

[Fists of War]

well I chose that way because each point invested in vita on a barb gives you 4 extra hp. If I save 18 from strength I will get 18*4 = 74 life as compared to 3*24 = 72 hp. I know it isnt much of a difference but I think I can use that crown more overall for future chars + 2 more hp doensn't hurt either :rolleyes:

Ah yeah, I was thinking amethysts gave AR for some reason...

But about the summoner idea? Are they even LLD viable like at lvl 24? Bit of a pain re-summoning your army every time a zealer comes in and takes 'em all out...

[WarlockCC]

And how do you stay at your target level with a low summoner, since you will get XP every time you kill monsters, you will get levels eventually. Even if you stay in the blood moor.

[Akukami]

But about the summoner idea? Are they even LLD viable like at lvl 24? Bit of a pain re-summoning your army every time a zealer comes in and takes 'em all out...

That's what IM is for....:rolleyes:

- Akukami

[Akukami]

And how do you stay at your target level with a low summoner, since you will get XP every time you kill monsters, you will get levels eventually. Even if you stay in the blood moor.

Simple. You get rushed to NM or Hell, and lose the XP when you get close to leveling. :grin:

- Akukami

[Fists of War]

Hmm at lvl 24 in normal, killing quill rats aint really gonna level you. You'll probably need 100k exp+ and each rat will give you less than 10 exp. Thats over 10k rats, not achievably by accident IMO unless you duel 24/7 for days and days for months. But is IM BM? Another thing, does thorns work at full in PvP, or not work at all? Thornadin anyone?

[Akukami]

Level 24 LLD Nec? Heck, you can go as low as 15 and still manage to win. And also, who cares if IM is BM? Bringing WW into a Sub-20 LLD game is BM alone, and if this is one way to get back at them, so be it. :grin:

- Akukami

[Dr K]

thanks for the ideas yall!! maybe i will make n fb sorc for those annoying ww babas



can you tell me a bit more about your build? skill placement and gear? im thinking twitch, deaths hands n sash, maybe gtoe? or treads?

thanks!

Skill placement depends on your target level. For LLD, I put as many as possible (based on target lvl) into holy freeze and the rest into resist cold. My frost ranger is currently lvl 56 (I know, he's not an LLD anymore), and on him, I have maxed freeze, resist cold and blessed aim (for the passive 5%/level ar bonus) and put the remaining points into salvation.

Gear:

death's hand and guard
twitch
angelics ammy and rings
3-socket mask (3 prubies)
30 frw, dual resist boots (vs. barbs, treads would be fine too)
wizendraw with -35% to enemy cold resist (wiz fires lvl 5 magic arrows, which gives you a 46% ar bonus)

I haven't tried gtoes on him, and I think he would have a harder time dodging ww's without the 30 frw. If you do try making one for pvp, please let me know how it works out. I haven't actually dueled with mine all that much. I don't know how he'd do vs. other pvp builds (like sorcs or javazons), but if I were to try it in LLD, I would change the above gear list to include a rare helm with resists/life and a resists ring.


Peace,

Dr K

[Fists of War]

Ok just to ask again, does thorns aura work in PvP? As for some reason I put 1 pt in thorns on my zealer xD... I'd love to sit there with say a pally with max thorns and 600+ life and watch a barb rip himself apart on you :)...

Anyone got a skill suggestions for a anti-ww summoner? I thought about it and came up with this which would suit my low amount of available items (so no +skills except for a +3 skeleton wand):

lvl 18, with 4 skill quests

1 pt amp damage and IM, 1 pt clay golem, 1 pt bone armour, 3 pts mage, 13 pts skeleton, 1 pt bone wall. This will give you 2 nice curses, some extra armour, and a total of 10 minions/ bone wall for the barb to IM himself to death on. The mages should be maybe all cold, just to chill the barb for ages to slow his ww's, though not if he has deaths. For the well equipped, maybe a wormskull or tarn, eye of etlich, +3 skeleton, +3 mage, +3 skelly mastery wand would do the trick.

[fledgeling]

perhaps a twitchthroe+sigon's shield? although the shield requires a lot of strenght..
it gives +1 skill point and nice block on the other hand

[Fists of War]

perhaps a twitchthroe+sigon's shield? although the shield requires a lot of strenght..
it gives +1 skill point and nice block on the other hand

Yeah sure does require lots of str, I'd probably go for 30 after items if not using sigs. Thats an extra 100 or so life I'd get if I DIDN'T use it, but the question is: will 100 life keep you alive better than 75% block? Both ways the barb will probably one or two hit ww you anyway...

[Monzee]

Just had a funny idea. A thorn-adin as lvl 15 using lvl 10 thorn aura = 610%dmg returned. He will NOT be able to fight back at all but the idea here is to stay alive and tank untill opponent dies. His gear will be all out items with the +rep life mod e.g. angelic rings gives 12% together and with enough items with that mod it should be relatively easy to stay alive vs other non-geared low levels that are just questing and not thinking about dueling :rolleyes: Also you can add prayer aura as lvl 9 to get 10life healed every 2 seconds.

[fledgeling]

I have a level 12 healer :-)
wonder if thorns can work

[Monzee]

I have also just started making my lvl 15 healer/thornadin. So far I've collected 2 perf regen manalds (8%) and civerb's amulet (4%) and also looking for 3sock shield with flawless skulls (12%). Then there is the unique armor "the centaur" (4-5%?) and don't know what the rest of the gear will be. So far I've mustered together 36% which imo is quite enough to keep myself alive vs typical lowlevels thereby not including LLD chargers and so.. :rolleyes: Also If I see my life is running a tad low I'll just turn on prayer for SUPERB life regen. Must look like im one of those newbies who keep drinking pots but unlike them I can stay in battles for ages :grin:

Oh, and while we are one the subject what about a lvl 15 nec using nothing but IM and bone armor? lvl 1 IM will return 200% dmg and bone armor will absorb 180 dmg :flip:

[Fists of War]

I have also just started making my lvl 15 healer/thornadin. So far I've collected 2 perf regen manalds (8%) and civerb's amulet (4%) and also looking for 3sock shield with flawless skulls (12%). Then there is the unique armor "the centaur" (4-5%?) and don't know what the rest of the gear will be. So far I've mustered together 36% which imo is quite enough to keep myself alive vs typical lowlevels thereby not including LLD chargers and so.. :rolleyes: Also If I see my life is running a tad low I'll just turn on prayer for SUPERB life regen. Must look like im one of those newbies who keep drinking pots but unlike them I can stay in battles for ages :grin:

Oh, and while we are one the subject what about a lvl 15 nec using nothing but IM and bone armor? lvl 1 IM will return 200% dmg and bone armor will absorb 180 dmg :flip:

Er...awkward pause...
The thing is, I was all ready to go and make a thornadin, but then I actually testes thorns. I put the aura on, got some guy to wack me with his weapon: zilch. No damage returned:cry:
He got me down to below 1/4 life but he was untouched, then someone said that thorns USED to be practically immunity to physical damage. Sorry to ruin your idea. That said, maybe someone could verify this, I mean I did not test it extensively, just briefly, so I might have made a mistake, but so far a thornadin ain't looking good. But your second idea about the necro? Funny, I thought of that just yesterday, seems like a great idea. Get a +3 bone armour/+3 IM wand, angelic armour/rings/amulet (life, +1 skills) and a 3 ruby mask and your opponent would have to have twice as much life as your life+bone armour combined to survive, which under lvl 30 would probably be impossible. It's really getting kind of BM though, I mean a summoner with IM is ok, but this idea would probably not get people to want to duel you...:)

[BeefTipz]

Ok, I'm relatively new to the whole 'LLD' thing, (I only just recently started playing D2 again.. first time since 1.9) and my LLD Assassin seems to work quite well.... if you would like to try it out, I haven't been rushed *still in act 1* so you can see my character is at somewhat of a disadvantage.

Anyways, shes level 14 with 13 dragon talon, 1 claw master, and 1 burst of speed. No rubies/charms/jewels/uniques/death/angelic stuff.

i OWNED a sorc and zon LLD at the same time, just need more mana... I only have 134 life.

Anyways, I'm going to get the rush *at least for normal* for the skills/resistance/stats and i'm going to get full angelic and i think find a 3 socket mask and put in 5 flawless rubies *i think i'm going to stop character at level 15.

Anyways... the assassin seems to work well, especially after you can get the third kick... I would like to see more LLD Assassins out there...

and for the charger, how do you do the nameselect thing to auto target? I never saw that answered and i would like to know so i stop charging once and can finish killing.

BeefTipz

[Kevin William Cox]

Ok, I'm relatively new to the whole 'LLD' thing, (I only just recently started playing D2 again.. first time since 1.9) and my LLD Assassin seems to work quite well.... if you would like to try it out, I haven't been rushed *still in act 1* so you can see my character is at somewhat of a disadvantage.

Anyways, shes level 14 with 13 dragon talon, 1 claw master, and 1 burst of speed. No rubies/charms/jewels/uniques/death/angelic stuff.

i OWNED a sorc and zon LLD at the same time, just need more mana... I only have 134 life.

Anyways, I'm going to get the rush *at least for normal* for the skills/resistance/stats and i'm going to get full angelic and i think find a 3 socket mask and put in 5 flawless rubies *i think i'm going to stop character at level 15.

Anyways... the assassin seems to work well, especially after you can get the third kick... I would like to see more LLD Assassins out there...

and for the charger, how do you do the nameselect thing to auto target? I never saw that answered and i would like to know so i stop charging once and can finish killing.

BeefTipz


aaaahhhh Beef, you're in Classic, we don't have assassins here.:wink3:




Kev

[Fists of War]

134 life in classic is low, let alone in xpac LLD...
You're a funny guy even if you do play LoD, ^ get a 3 socket mask and put 5 flawless gems in there!!?? About the namelock question? I assume you mean charge and then auto-target to another skill like smite. Just charge with the skill on left-click, then once you've charged, keep the mouse button down, but press a hotkey for your second skill, which will then hit your target. I'm not sure i that was what you meant though, but I hope I helped...

[quadeddie]

They are indeed! Imo, 1h zeal/charge is the strongest build overall from 12-24. At the time I was banned from bnet (a couple weeks ago), I had the strongest level 12 on West ladder. He even beat 2 friends level 12s at the same time, while they shared Blessed Aim and Might. These were his stats:

Armor/Amulet/Rings: Angelic
Gloves/Helm/Shield: Sigon
Belt: Hsaru with Death's on backup
Boots: Hsaru with Sigon's for use with Death Sash
Weapon: War Hammer, 28-53, +5 Str, 100+ ar

Life: 305
Zeal AR: 981
Zeal Dmg: 96-182
Def: 400+

War Hammers are so ridiculously overpowered that they beat other faster weapons in damage over time. This was by far the best level 12 I've made, and as you can see, its not super imaginative, and I'm sure its been done plenty of times in the past. I only supplied it with a full normal rush. My suggestion is to use that gear and the biggest war hammer you can find. Also this setup is helped greatly by keeping the biggest maul you can find on switch to deal with smiters and other things where a shield is not needed.
I only claim him as the best because although he had been beaten by other level 12s, he was never beaten in a Best of 10 match.:hide:


Hey sculpen - I've been trying out this build for a while at lvl 12 and have made the following adjustments:

Same:
Angelics rings, ammy, armor.
Hisarus Belt, Boots (with hotspurs & sig boots on backup)
Sig gloves, shield

The problem you get with this build is that it's weak on resists. I like to take on lvl 30+ sorcs, and they ate me alive an orb or two. So I took this build to lvl 13 and added the following gear:

Rare War Hammer 33-58 dmg
74 ED, 8 to max, 55 ar, 1-9 lightning, fr 10% (lvl 13 req)

Full Helm
10% fhr, 5% ar, 5 to life, 30% cr, 18% lr, 5% fr, +5 to light

This leaves me a little light on lr (against fohers), but if I'm really desparate to up my lr, I'll throw on the Unique FellOak club. After that, I'm maxed on fr, cr, lr in norm.

I'm remaking him now and going to throw the thirteenth point into that pally cold resist aura (to stack cr to counter balance any points they may have in cold mastery - and to help when I brave duels up in nm).

Fully rushed, this build is really impressive - especially dominating most people from 12-29 (and fire sorcs on up to 5x :wink3:).

[Barrynor]

thorns: 1/10th damage returned versus players, not the 1/6th penalty.

imagine a player has a 60-600, listed... this gets cut by 1/6th when he hits you for 10-100, and then by 1/10th for returns 1-10. say you did manage to gather 1000% damage return, then you're back to reflecting what he does, and if he's properly build, you're toast. only once you manage to hit 1200% or more damage returned you might stand a chance vs whatever, provided they don't kill you in one or two hits (in which case its moot anyway).

as far as the nec goes: it is possible to waste a barbie if he wws through a load of bonewalls whilst being IM-ed, but it requires luck and stupidity, in that order.

[JudasXPriest]

Hey sculpen - I've been trying out this build for a while at lvl 12 and have made the following adjustments:

Same:
Angelics rings, ammy, armor.
Hisarus Belt, Boots (with hotspurs & sig boots on backup)
Sig gloves, shield

The problem you get with this build is that it's weak on resists. I like to take on lvl 30+ sorcs, and they ate me alive an orb or two. So I took this build to lvl 13 and added the following gear:

Rare War Hammer 33-58 dmg
74 ED, 8 to max, 55 ar, 1-9 lightning, fr 10% (lvl 13 req)

Full Helm
10% fhr, 5% ar, 5 to life, 30% cr, 18% lr, 5% fr, +5 to light

This leaves me a little light on lr (against fohers), but if I'm really desparate to up my lr, I'll throw on the Unique FellOak club. After that, I'm maxed on fr, cr, lr in norm.

I'm remaking him now and going to throw the thirteenth point into that pally cold resist aura (to stack cr to counter balance any points they may have in cold mastery - and to help when I brave duels up in nm).

Fully rushed, this build is really impressive - especially dominating most people from 12-29 (and fire sorcs on up to 5x :wink3:).

My 12 has no problem with sorcs. when u get all ur important skills maxed be sure to get cold resist, fire resist, and light resist. those will change that 1-2 orb to 5-6, no problem. although w/o might ull prolly only be doing 300-400 dmg instead of 600-700 dmg, but with a powerful pike, a sorc goes down ez anyway. with resist auras u can take sorcs in the 50s with ease. ive even taken out a 82 orb sorc (noobiest kid ever, lmao) with my 12.

my 12 has:
-Sig helm
-Sig Shield + Deaths weap OR Pike
-Angelics armor,rings, ammy
-Sig boots
-Deaths Belt, Gloves

for skills i have:
12 might
1 Zeal (1 on prereq)
1 charge (1 on prereq)
1 Blessed Aim
1 Cold Resist
1 Fire resist
1 Light resist

i very rarely have a problem with anything under level 30 unless its another zealer with deaths belt and a WH because then the 30-45 cold dmg on my deaths doesnt freeze them. and they dish out tons of dmg with thier wh (but thats what charge is for ;D)

[quadeddie]

My 12 has no problem with sorcs. when u get all ur important skills maxed be sure to get cold resist, fire resist, and light resist. those will change that 1-2 orb to 5-6, no problem. although w/o might ull prolly only be doing 300-400 dmg instead of 600-700 dmg, but with a powerful pike, a sorc goes down ez anyway. with resist auras u can take sorcs in the 50s with ease. ive even taken out a 82 orb sorc (noobiest kid ever, lmao) with my 12.

my 12 has:
-Sig helm
-Sig Shield + Deaths weap OR Pike
-Angelics armor,rings, ammy
-Sig boots
-Deaths Belt, Gloves

for skills i have:
12 might
1 Zeal (1 on prereq)
1 charge (1 on prereq)
1 Blessed Aim
1 Cold Resist
1 Fire resist
1 Light resist

i very rarely have a problem with anything under level 30 unless its another zealer with deaths belt and a WH because then the 30-45 cold dmg on my deaths doesnt freeze them. and they dish out tons of dmg with thier wh (but thats what charge is for ;D)

Interesting... I'm rebuilding right now (just about through nm rush), so I'll take a look at these things.

For an entirely different build: lldwolf in newbie's clothing
I'd like to eventually go sorc hunting in nm, I figure I'll take along my lvl 67 chanter, chant the lld and then hunt. For this, I think my lld would have to look at innocent as possible (lvl 12 or 13), max resists, a lot of life, and a decent weapon. When I've tried this in the past, I've gotten good results. Usually I get a few "lol"s from the party, but then after I kill a sorc, things get serious and comments start flying ("omg hacker", "how u hack?", "show gear", etc..).

My sorc will party, chant, unparty then my low guy will go hostile. I could probably beat noob necros, some pallys, sorcs, and maybe a barb or two (ww will destroy this build).

I think I could probably do without the +1 of sigs shield, but I do need max block. I'll have to start looking at the set and unique shields for this (I'd rather spend the str points normally spent on sigs, in life). I'll probably go with a 3 ruby helm, and low str req resist gear. It should be an interesting build.

[FireMarshal]

I've been testing out some LLD builds lately, and had a couple questions.

Crushing Blow on ranged weapons(bows). Whats the penalty in PvP?

It seems that everyone has a freakin LLD pally of some sort, charger, zealer.... So, what could take them down? Apart from some necros?

I know.....probably the best counter is to just make a charger myself. But I don't think that way, I like to do things differently if possible.


edit: I searched, and it seems that Crushing Blow on bows the penalty is 1/20......kinda laughable and worthless. Even against a player with 600hp, it will only knock off 30hp. bah! There goes my idea.

[fledgeling]

I dont think anything can take out a charger easily, apart from a level 30 ww barb
or level 28+ smiter

or maybe some sort of javazon ~ level 24+ (passive/sigon shield)

I need to test my new bowazon though..

oh and maybe some sort of sorc which could teleport


I think I killed Warlock's double swinger with 2-3 hits (very well build barb level 12)


seriously, chargers are incredibly hard to kill, unless you use another charger, or zealer

[forumfreak]

I dont think anything can take out a charger easily, apart from a level 30 ww barb
or level 28+ smiter

or maybe some sort of javazon ~ level 24+ (passive/sigon shield)

I need to test my new bowazon though..

oh and maybe some sort of sorc which could teleport


I think I killed Warlock's double swinger with 2-3 hits (very well build barb level 12)


seriously, chargers are incredibly hard to kill, unless you use another charger, or zealer


im pretty sure a well built necro would be able to beat a well built charger. i mean the necro does have bone wall and shield and just spam away with spears right?

[WarlockCC]

I dont think anything can take out a charger easily, apart from a level 30 ww barb
or level 28+ smiter

or maybe some sort of javazon ~ level 24+ (passive/sigon shield)

I need to test my new bowazon though..

oh and maybe some sort of sorc which could teleport


I think I killed Warlock's double swinger with 2-3 hits (very well build barb level 12)


seriously, chargers are incredibly hard to kill, unless you use another charger, or zealer
I don't have a level 12 doubleswinger. :)

Any charger can be taken out without problems unless the charger uses pots(life, mana or otherwise). Even when they pot it's still do-able if you have a good amount of block and defence.
It's just too easy to outblock a charger and then bleed them. Bleed in the sense of either open wounds or keep damaging them, chipping away at their life.
Just don't (cold)slow the charger, cause you'll get desynced and you'll be attacking air when the charger is not near. Otherwise just don't namelock the charger and keep swinging with shift pressed. You'll hit them every now and then and that's enough to keep them bleeding.

[quadeddie]

im pretty sure a well built necro would be able to beat a well built charger. i mean the necro does have bone wall and shield and just spam away with spears right?

According to some dueling last night, ^^ this is true (unless the nec messes up). Scuplen's built a gg lvl29 necro that can waste all others llds - I think he'll be posting a lld video here soon.

[Still-Xey-Lover]

What about the idea of an lld hammerdin. I saw a godly +1 pally +3 BH 10 fcr scepter for trade that i couldnt possibly afford, but with tarn, a +1 pally ammy, steelcash and 2xsojs thats +6 to skills and +9 to bh.

[FireMarshal]

I don't have a level 12 doubleswinger. :)

Any charger can be taken out without problems unless the charger uses pots(life, mana or otherwise). Even when they pot it's still do-able if you have a good amount of block and defence.
It's just too easy to outblock a charger and then bleed them. Bleed in the sense of either open wounds or keep damaging them, chipping away at their life.
Just don't (cold)slow the charger, cause you'll get desynced and you'll be attacking air when the charger is not near. Otherwise just don't namelock the charger and keep swinging with shift pressed. You'll hit them every now and then and that's enough to keep them bleeding.

So, I guess we are talking High Def Barbs, and Pallys, either the Defiance flavor or Holy Shield. Though, as mentioned, Zons have Passive Skills that work well, I guess it's just a matter of doing enough damage. I really want to build an anti-charger, cause too many of them are out there.


QUESTION! How does the Barbs Stun skill work in PvP? I assume since it doesn't work on Boss monsters, it won't work against players.

ooo ooo another QUESTION! Impale. On paper it looks fantastic, or does it attack too slow? Fend?


anyhow. thanks much. Help me build this anti-charger rawr! :prop:

[Fists of War]

So, I guess we are talking High Def Barbs, and Pallys, either the Defiance flavor or Holy Shield. Though, as mentioned, Zons have Passive Skills that work well, I guess it's just a matter of doing enough damage. I really want to build an anti-charger, cause too many of them are out there.


QUESTION! How does the Barbs Stun skill work in PvP? I assume since it doesn't work on Boss monsters, it won't work against players.

ooo ooo another QUESTION! Impale. On paper it looks fantastic, or does it attack too slow? Fend?


anyhow. thanks much. Help me build this anti-charger rawr! :prop:

Okay, my fave thread bought up again :grin:

Stun works in PvP, in fact it's the only way my lvl 15 basher can have a chance at beating my friends lvl 12 smiter...match his stun with yours. I had an idea recently, how about a stun barb? lvl 15, 4 in stun, rest in mastery, go for gear that gives knockback, and maybe some cb and open wounds...and you have yourself a kind of smiter, but as a barb! Also consider leap. maybe it can knockback a charger for some quick hits? Concentrate barb, uninteruptable, sigons+leap to block and stun and dodge charges then try and chip away at them?

Impale. Don't kill yourself and make an 'impalezon'. Soooo slow, I don't even think impale is uninteruptable, so no way could you ever hit anyone, I mean it's like maybe a 15+ frame attack, maybe even 20+!

To the build idea's for an anit-charger, smiters completely own lld at lvl 25. A few points in holy shield, a grim shield, and you've got yourself an itd, block-ignoring fast attack, doing upwards of 250 max damage. Add ow and cb...godly.


According to some dueling last night, ^^ this is true (unless the nec messes up). Scuplen's built a gg lvl29 necro that can waste all others llds - I think he'll be posting a lld video here soon.

Back a few posts, that lvl 29 nec of sculps in Mr.Creepy 'aint it? I reckon it could take down a few chargers, with bone walls and spears...I'd love to see another classic lld vid shot on home turf ^_^. Btw, what chars are yours quadeddie? I'm fullplate, got you added on bnet. I think I've dueled you before, are you the guy with LLturtle and those other chars with the 'LL' tag?

And about the hammerdin idea...very nice, you've got the build down if you make it according to what you suggested. it can work all the way from 18 to 100!!!

And that ends my retardedly long post...no wonder my post count is suffering with mammoth posts like these...

But to finish, some more questions/suggestions:

lvl 29 sorcs to take down chargers? Blizz sorc with tele to dodge charges, maybe even go for shard+sigons (heavy won't matter with tele) to block charges, maybe a good strategy would be to cast blizz on yourself, which will stop any charger from getting you, then cast ice blast at them and renew you're blizz every now and then...
Fireball sorc? Same as above but you only get meteor as you're aoe spell...

Keep the lld thread alive...:grin:

[JudasXPriest]

blizz sorcs are no good. not even level 4x blizz sorcs do much dmg to my 12 i get blizz sorcs all the time thinkin thier smart and cast on themselves. i try to mock thier "sneaky" attempts to kill me by standing next to them and zealing while thier blizz does 20-30 dmg each hit.

Yes... sculpys necro puts all chargers to shame. and people think chargers are grossly overpowered chars -_-. 2-3 spears from creepy and ur done gaurenteed.

Quadeddies char is charge/zeal named Negrodamis (sry if i spelt wrong, lol) or soemthing like that. level 12-13... lol i cant remember, i even saw him last night ><

id say in lld, Necros > pretty much all.
sorcs? dont even bother. maybe lld sorc vs necro... but if its a charger, buy a coffin before u duel it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Has anyone tried a lld summoner before? u might think "lol... summoner" but they work wonderfull vs chargers if built right. points into raise skele, and mastery, and 1 into amplify dmg, skeles waste some charger/zealers in a few hits. i only tried level 15 build, but im thinkin levle 29 build would work for nearly all chars. only problems it has is cold dmg from sorcs and shout from barbs.

[quadeddie]

blizz sorcs are no good. not even level 4x blizz sorcs do much dmg to my 12 i get blizz sorcs all the time thinkin thier smart and cast on themselves. i try to mock thier "sneaky" attempts to kill me by standing next to them and zealing while thier blizz does 20-30 dmg each hit.

Yes... sculpys necro puts all chargers to shame. and people think chargers are grossly overpowered chars -_-. 2-3 spears from creepy and ur done gaurenteed.

Quadeddies char is charge/zeal named Negrodamis (sry if i spelt wrong, lol) or soemthing like that. level 12-13... lol i cant remember, i even saw him last night ><

id say in lld, Necros > pretty much all.
sorcs? dont even bother. maybe lld sorc vs necro... but if its a charger, buy a coffin before u duel it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Has anyone tried a lld summoner before? u might think "lol... summoner" but they work wonderfull vs chargers if built right. points into raise skele, and mastery, and 1 into amplify dmg, skeles waste some charger/zealers in a few hits. i only tried level 15 build, but im thinkin levle 29 build would work for nearly all chars. only problems it has is cold dmg from sorcs and shout from barbs.

My 13 charger eates Bliz sorcs for bfast, well into their 40s and 50s. I just stackup CR based on the lvl of the char (76 if under 30, more as they approach 50). No matter if they blocked the charge, they'd still get taken down because their bliz ain't doing anything (especially to a lvl 15+ with hawk).

Yeah, my guys name is Negrodamis - you got it right, bro. And I think I'm going to try that 29 nec build next. (A lot of times I face 2x good builds with nothing but my lvl13 and I occasionally face an unbeatable, I need a solid lld in their 20s to match them)

[Fists of War]

Damn I'm finding it hard to place chars to accounts here...

Negrodamis...I think I met you in the sN channel, and you said you had accidently levelled to 13. And you had some warhammer stats that you showed me?

I know all sculps chars, and then theres mentalex (cherrypopper, LLturtle?), reddragonlord (?), and...you (quadeddie).

Can you put some accounts to characters here for me?

poor blizz sorcs...I mean, how can you take a blizz thats around 300+ pvp damage? But hawkmail, I suppose that down to <30 dmg...but how can you hit with zeal or even charge when they are teleing with good fcr?

And btw JudasXpriest how the hell did you get banned? it better be just temp...my guess is your language again or something ^_^ if you can pm me when you're banned tell me...

Edit: 200th post! Hoorah!

[quadeddie]

Damn I'm finding it hard to place chars to accounts here...

Negrodamis...I think I met you in the sN channel, and you said you had accidently levelled to 13. And you had some warhammer stats that you showed me?

I know all sculps chars, and then theres mentalex (cherrypopper, LLturtle?), reddragonlord (?), and...you (quadeddie).

Can you put some accounts to characters here for me?


Right, my old Negrodamis accidently lvled to 13, but this incarnation is lvl13 for a reason (rare weapon, ring, helm). I dunno other people too well, but i recognize the names you listed above.

[Fists of War]

Ah good, that must've been you in the channel. Anyway I have new lld just made, take a look:

lvl 9 zon

1 dodge
1 jab
4 psn jav
4 power strike

40 str
40 dex
only 25 vit :/
base energy

Kinda crappy, but perfect for owning 9-12 pubs ^_^

[JudasXPriest]

ya lol, u leveled him with me, id say he could own any random public kid if she got some decent gear, but id stay away from other llds lol.

[quadeddie]

ya lol, u leveled him with me, id say he could own any random public kid if she got some decent gear, but id stay away from other llds lol.

Right, you would not be able to touch a 12 pally with a sig sheild (max block) and a point in lr.

[fledgeling]

what's her damage?
I wonder if she could take out my level 11 defense palladin, or my level 12 healer

[Fists of War]

what's her damage?
I wonder if she could take out my level 11 defense palladin, or my level 12 healer

Hmm defence pally as in sacrafice+defiance? And healer as smiter+cleansing synergised with prayer?

In short, no. Just not well enough equipped to take down anything with res or high life/block. And I just started dueling with her so I have yet to put some gear that i'm trying to get on her, and it's taking time to perfect my 'avoid' and throw techniques. If I could get full sigons I would remake with pretty much all stats to str. I figured this would be my stats if I did:

70% block
30%+ dodge
300+ defence
-7 damage
bout the same life, better IAS, FRW and AR though.

That would be so tank for a lvl 9. I figured a pub with low AR would land about 1/10 hits on me, and do about 42 less char screen dmg. No pub would be able to touch me, and i would be a force to reckon with against real llds.

I dueled with her and absolutely owned this 11 or 13 nec. But he was a joke. Like, teeth nec? He probably thought his bone armour would take my lite/psn dmg. btw is...

100-130 psn (bout 20-30 physical) psn jav dmg.
4-90 power strike dmg.

Good enough for any opponent under 200 life : /

[Turtleism]

Making any poison lld is very tricky, if u want it to do some serious duels that is, My lvl 27 poison dagger necro (The-Clown) is imo very good, whilst still being in development he is getting 1.7k-1.8k over 10.4 seconds which sets the noobs running like u wouldnt belive (had to get a nm rush just to get prison), but to get back on topic alot of noobs will have poison resist by accident (like many others) but there is nothin more sexy then watching someones life just tick away, so i think u should give it a go :smiley:


BTW my acc's are Mentalex and tanis12345 and i have the lld LLTurtle, Not Cherrypopper

[Alit]

Hey i just made a 29 smiter yesterday, looking foreward to testing it out. /w *alit[kow] if you have a lld on ESCL and want to fight :wink3:
ill be on all afternoon

[JudasXPriest]

stats/skills/gear? if you dont mind

[WarlockCC]

ESCL being :
- Europe Soft Core Ladder
or
- EaSt CLassic
maybe
- EaSt Classic Ladder
or a combination of those three ?

[sunnykisawesome]

ESCL= East Soft Core Ladder
EUSCL= Europe Soft Core Ladder

i think this is the standard.

[Alit]

Hmm my 29 smiter has:
Stats
45 str
25 dex
155 vit
base energy
Skills
1 res lighting/fire/cold
1 conc/4 holy freeze/1 all prereq
20 smite/6 holy shield/1 all prereq
Gear
Weapon- +1 30 ias Scimitar, General's Flail
Helm-2 PRuby,1 Pame death mask, because i forgot barbed shield was 65 str :sad2:
Armor- Twitch
Shield- 30/20 Barbed Shield *looking for +1 Barbed Shield
Boots- Gtoes
Gloves- Clegclaw, Bloodfist, Death
Belt- Death
Rings-30cr28fr, 29cr27lr
Ammy- +1, 60 life, 37lr27fr

[sunnykisawesome]

nice stuff. i have a similar smiter lvl 29 too.

uses a +1 30/20.

but i have a +1 17fhr 10/10 for trade if you need.

pm me if you have anything for it. thanks

[WarlockCC]

ESCL= East Soft Core Ladder
EUSCL= Europe Soft Core Ladder

i think this is the standard.
Actually, things aren't standard until accepted by all concerned.
Personally I refer to it as follows :
eascl = east softcore ladder
escl = europe softcore ladder

Or, to avoid confusion, seperate the letters into groups.
e sc l
Maybe even go as far as to put it in my profile. :)

Anywayz, back on track, having found this 4 sock warhammer with a massive 5% ed, I thought about sticking some level 12 ametheists on there for more ar. Any thoughts on if that would help more then the possible mods I could get on a rare ? Like up to 53 or something damage rather then the 32-ish it does now.
Maybe sock it with elements ?

This would be for a level 12 dueler, might be charger/zealer or bash-barb, maybe even for a doubleswing barb(Barb that swings both ways ? Not a pretty sight I'm sure).

[Fists of War]

Actually, things aren't standard until accepted by all concerned.
Personally I refer to it as follows :
eascl = east softcore ladder
escl = europe softcore ladder

Or, to avoid confusion, seperate the letters into groups.
e sc l
Maybe even go as far as to put it in my profile. :)

Anywayz, back on track, having found this 4 sock warhammer with a massive 5% ed, I thought about sticking some level 12 ametheists on there for more ar. Any thoughts on if that would help more then the possible mods I could get on a rare ? Like up to 53 or something damage rather then the 32-ish it does now.
Maybe sock it with elements ?

This would be for a level 12 dueler, might be charger/zealer or bash-barb, maybe even for a doubleswing barb(Barb that swings both ways ? Not a pretty sight I'm sure).

5% ed? hmm, won't that be about 25.2 average damage? Or are we talkin about max damage?

I don't really think that socketing it with amethysts is gonna do much. If you are serious about your char you should be using angelics at level 12, for 100+ life, life regen and massive AR gains, which is enough to hit any lld well. If I had this hammer I would socket with normal topaz's, maybe an emerald to stop that annoying life regen or a saphire to chill...4 norm topaz's is 4-88 lite dmg, about 1-15 pvp dmg. Imo better than about 320 AR.

Besides, if you use a normal lld hammer (60%+ ed, +min/max dmg, AR) you will still have a bit of an AR bonus, as well as SO much more damage, and maybe 10% IAS/cold dmg/any other tasty bonuses on your rare.

And if you're going the charger/zealer way, and getting a rush to max might, thats about 800% ed with aura on and +1 skills (sigons shield/angelics+armour).
For your hammer: (rough calcs only)
280 dmg charge (45 pvp)
For a 45 dmg rare:
about 400 charge dmg (65 pvp)

I'd go for the rare, but it's your choice. :grin:

[JudasXPriest]

well considering its 4 soc, id put at least 1 ame in just for alil ar boost. rest is up to u, i personally would go cold because slow LLDs are killed fast, only problem, however, is if u fight someone with Deaths. if u do 1 ame, 1 saph, that leaves u with 2 socs to do w/e u want. but its really up to u.

[zrk]

if you cant get your hands on a gozu rare warhammer then my suggestion would be to try and cube a good magic one with 2 socks..

I got lucky and got a 48% ED, lvl 10 rec one on my first try.. slapped a regular sapphire and a regular amethyst in it and its quite a dandy weapon. Rares are better though. Now in hind seek i have to admit that the amethyst didnt make a big difference on my attack rating and perhaps using the second socket for a ruby or a topaz wouldve been better.

There is no chance a regular non-magic socketed warhammer could stand a chance against rare ones though... in the worst case you should be using a 45-50% ED one shopped from act 4.. its easy to get and still works ok.

[JudasXPriest]

nice avatar zrk, Jimi Hendrix is GG ><

[WarlockCC]

Thing is, at level 12, Angelics gives you 12*12=144 ar per ring, so that warhammer with 4*80=320ar would actually be able to replace both angelics, opening up opportunaties for other rings. Offcourse on a rare warhammer you could get up to (rough estimate) 150ar or so. Angelics and such a warhammer would have about 100 more ar then the 4 ame warhammer alone. But on your 'replacement' rings you could also get up to 80 or 100 ar per ring at level 12.
And on top of that AR you could get 3 types of the following : min damage, max damage, str, dex, life, energy
and 2 of these : up to 20 cold res, " " lightning res, " " fire res, " " poison res,mana

That leaves the amu, which might have a nice collection of mods aswell.

Anywayz, I just tossed it up as food for thought and discussion, thanks for the input. I'll give this 4 ame hammer a try(I can get cold damage from my pp Eye) and also start gambling away vast quantaties of gold on a rare warhammer.

Any thoughts on what level I should gamble these hammers with ? Level 12 ? Or a slightly higher level ? I allways get the ilvl and the clvl mixed up when it comes to gambling.

I think I will remake my level 9 defsmiter, he was amusing, but I don't really use him often enough to warrant his items.

[quadeddie]

Thing is, at level 12, Angelics gives you 12*12=144 ar per ring, so that warhammer with 4*80=320ar would actually be able to replace both angelics, opening up opportunaties for other rings. Offcourse on a rare warhammer you could get up to (rough estimate) 150ar or so. Angelics and such a warhammer would have about 100 more ar then the 4 ame warhammer alone. But on your 'replacement' rings you could also get up to 80 or 100 ar per ring at level 12.
And on top of that AR you could get 3 types of the following : min damage, max damage, str, dex, life, energy
and 2 of these : up to 20 cold res, " " lightning res, " " fire res, " " poison res,mana

That leaves the amu, which might have a nice collection of mods aswell.

Anywayz, I just tossed it up as food for thought and discussion, thanks for the input. I'll give this 4 ame hammer a try(I can get cold damage from my pp Eye) and also start gambling away vast quantaties of gold on a rare warhammer.

Any thoughts on what level I should gamble these hammers with ? Level 12 ? Or a slightly higher level ? I allways get the ilvl and the clvl mixed up when it comes to gambling.

The bottom line here is that angelics is much more accessable than godly lld rares. As I mf hell, I keep an eye out even for the low items for my llds. Recently, I've found a really good tri-rez/ar ring that's lvl13 req.

As for gambling, get a char that's around 29-33 to gamble rare wh's (and plan on spending 4 mill). Since you already have cold dmg (which is gg for llds), you can focus on a hammer that ED, poison and ar.

I use snake cord for poison (when I'm in no fear of being frozen) - and no matter what, poison freaks people out. Whenever I beat someone most say it's because of the poison. (I think if you're freezing + poisoning them at lvl 12, that's gg)

[WarlockCC]

That's why I threw in this option, because a 4 sock warhammer is more accessable then a godly one. Mind you, one can still wear Angelics even with such a 320ar warhammer, allowing you to pummel even the higher levels. My level 12 dual angelic charger, already has trouble hitting some barbs or pala's over level 30.

While we're on the subject of socketables, what about a 3 sock shield with skulls in it ? combined with sigons plate for some more attacker takes damage. Would that be amusing or a utter waste of time.
I think Zodi already mentioned for high levels it's utterly futile to stick a PS in a shield. I'm just wondering about the lower levels now. sub 30 chars, ect.

[Fists of War]

@zrk two socks on a magic? A blue that is? I didn't even know that was possible, is the recipe diff than the normal rare sock one?


That's why I threw in this option, because a 4 sock warhammer is more accessable then a godly one. Mind you, one can still wear Angelics even with such a 320ar warhammer, allowing you to pummel even the higher levels. My level 12 dual angelic charger, already has trouble hitting some barbs or pala's over level 30.

While we're on the subject of socketables, what about a 3 sock shield with skulls in it ? combined with sigons plate for some more attacker takes damage. Would that be amusing or a utter waste of time.
I think Zodi already mentioned for high levels it's utterly futile to stick a PS in a shield. I'm just wondering about the lower levels now. sub 30 chars, ect.

I think the shield idea is very good, in fact I was seriously thinking about it a few days ago. Since these forums are blocked at my school I had to go on the lld forums. It's for LoD but there were a few interesting things about smiter vs. smiter, that a pally shield with 4 skulls owns other smiters. The atd is divided by 6 but still works well. So, like 12 atd from 1 norm skull? Thats 6 atd (pvp) in total for 3. Thats pretty nice for smiter vs. smiter, and reasonably good for other classes. By the way, what atd does sigs armour have?

And I don't think reasonably good hammers are that hard to get. Hres the stats of my two:

-68%ed, +7 min, 115 AR, 10 IAS, 7 % life leech, lvl 15 req

-6x%ed, +2 min, 5x AR, 10 IAS, lvl 15 req

Both given to me by sculp, both gambled by him. He had some mule (LLDweapons) filled with hammers like these, plus mauls as well.

I know they're lvl 15 req, but similar stats can be gotten at lvl 9-12. it's really just the leech that pushed the req's on those weapons up.:cry: otherwise they would be great for lvl 12...

[zrk]

@zrk two socks on a magic? A blue that is? I didn't even know that was possible, is the recipe diff than the normal rare sock one?



I think the shield idea is very good, in fact I was seriously thinking about it a few days ago. Since these forums are blocked at my school I had to go on the lld forums. It's for LoD but there were a few interesting things about smiter vs. smiter, that a pally shield with 4 skulls owns other smiters. The atd is divided by 6 but still works well. So, like 12 atd from 1 norm skull? Thats 6 atd (pvp) in total for 3. Thats pretty nice for smiter vs. smiter, and reasonably good for other classes. By the way, what atd does sigs armour have?

And I don't think reasonably good hammers are that hard to get. Hres the stats of my two:

-68%ed, +7 min, 115 AR, 10 IAS, 7 % life leech, lvl 15 req

-6x%ed, +2 min, 5x AR, 10 IAS, lvl 15 req

Both given to me by sculp, both gambled by him. He had some mule (LLDweapons) filled with hammers like these, plus mauls as well.

I know they're lvl 15 req, but similar stats can be gotten at lvl 9-12. it's really just the leech that pushed the req's on those weapons up.:cry: otherwise they would be great for lvl 12...

yep a magic 2 sock one. i dont remember the formula because i made it a long time ago but check it out from the arreat summit
heres a pic of ithttp://img83.imageshack.us/img83/8035/screenshot246so0.jpg

anyway those rare hammers you have really arent noticably better than magic ones available at that level.. you can shop a 65% ed +14 max at lvl 15.. now good rares would have 80%+ ed at that lvl

[Fists of War]

But if my first hammer didn't have the life leech (which is clvl 15) I'm reasonably sure it would be clvl 12. I'd show you the screenie but the forums down deleted it. Then if it was clvl 12 it would have more damage, and more AR than your magic one. I agree that for lvl 15 however the e.d and +max dmg could be easily better, maybe around 50 average damage.

[FireMarshal]

Ok, finally got my first LLD up and running. First since I restarted D2 that is. :wink3:, a level 16 Bash Barb. So far so good, had a few duels, some with decent players, had fun!! Hit me up, we can make a public duel game and have a little battle.

*dream.theater

I think I am going to work on another LLD now. :thumbsup:

edit: I just found a Tan Do Li Ga. What can I make with this? :grin: One of those Slow Down builds? Hmm...I don't know what to build, not necessarily with the TanDo, just in general. A Sacrificer? Don't really want to make a charger.....yet, I got a great Pike for it, but not yet heh.

How is Vengeance in PvP, any good at all? Who here has tried one out?

[fledgeling]

I have tried venegance out to some degree while building my avenger and with a good knout I managed to get to around 500 damage (ok, not really remember, I can be wrong here, I think the knout had 94 max dmg) around level 26
he was pretty slow, but if he managed to get close to a character, he could do HIGH damage
not sure how would he work vs zealers
but he was one of the few chars which were able to easily take out these irritating level 28+ javazons using hacks (defense aura yay!)
vs melee I was using cold aura, to slow down

[Akukami]

edit: I just found a Tan Do Li Ga. What can I make with this? :grin:

You can put it on a Smiter or Zealer! You could also try a Conc Barb, but I'm not sure how that would work.

- Akukami

[WarlockCC]

Like Akukami typed, a general works well on a smiter and a zealer, where it would probably have to be a elemental zealer, since the flail doesn't do enough physical damage to make a difference on most characters lifebar. :)

[Fists of War]

Ok, finally got my first LLD up and running. First since I restarted D2 that is. :wink3:, a level 16 Bash Barb. So far so good, had a few duels, some with decent players, had fun!! Hit me up, we can make a public duel game and have a little battle.

*dream.theater

I think I am going to work on another LLD now. :thumbsup:

edit: I just found a Tan Do Li Ga. What can I make with this? :grin: One of those Slow Down builds? Hmm...I don't know what to build, not necessarily with the TanDo, just in general. A Sacrificer? Don't really want to make a charger.....yet, I got a great Pike for it, but not yet heh.

How is Vengeance in PvP, any good at all? Who here has tried one out?

I'd love to duel you sometime, your on the right realm...but I can't go on DII for a while and can't write down your account so it'll be a while before I can. The problem is, i have a lvl 9, 12, 29. Not really anything around your level except a 15 bash barb that is so pathetic I'd be embarrassed to bring him out of retirement. Have you met anyone else who lld's on west? Like sculp (mr.friendly), quadeddie, mentalex, reddragonlord/magicdragonlord, Mr.Crowley? Jump in to op xsnx, that's where me and some other guys normally afk.

Add me *fullplate and maybe when my 15 ice blast sorc's done we could duel (you'd win but it's worth a try ^_^)

As for other lld's to make, there are plenty that you might like. Smiter: Level 9, 12, 16 (for twitch+sback), 24 (for holy shield+unique cb boots). Lvl 12 zealer/charger. lvl 18 frost zealot (maybe with that general flail?). lvl 18-29 bone necro (bit too popular these days though). Lvl 18-29 hammerdin? 29 fire sorc/blizz sorc. 18+ charged strike zon. Plenty of viable options, try and go for a more unique build, it gets boring seeing the same builds over and over.

Hope to duel you soon...

EDIT: I was just thinking about some new lld ideas. How about a lvl 30 foh/smite pally? Still accepted as lld? I'd go for +1 sceptor, tarn, +1 ammy, 2x soj, +1 pally/good res barbed shield. 1 foh/conv., 7 holy shield, 7 holy shock, 1 fanat, heaps of pre-reqs and rest smite. In single player this was about 300+ smite, disn't get to test foh damage though. Pure foh vs casters, foh then smite vs melee.

Or...a 30 ww barb. Since most good rares can actually be clvl 30 or below, i'd say a rare naga, rare orn, 3 saph/ruby death mask, 30/20 grim shield, those unique boots with cb, bladebuckle, frostburns for mana, 1 soj, 1 angelic ring+angelic amulet. 4k+ defence, almost 2k AR, 1.5k+ life, Great damage too, plus it's ww!!! Will own every 30-40 non-ww/non-charger melee.

Aren't you making one Judas? It's just that in some thread that got closed you were asking for a <clvl 30 bh for your 30 ww barb. I can't wait for it if you are making one, as i'll never get the time/resources to do it myself. Seriously, a perfect 30 ww barb would require about 6 soj's (thats without using angelics, and still gettting 2k AR, by getting 300+ on weapon and using Dia sockets).

[UnderAge]

whats the base req's for an ancient sword? or how ever you spell it... i got a 119 dmg axe :O if its in range for around a lvl 15 id slay some fools lol

[JudasXPriest]

Meh.. really the only kind of char at level 30 that i accept as a LLD (dunno if other people do.. but i dont really care) is a WW baba. i just finished mine last weekend and hes basically done... all geared and everything with... standard BvB gear. (twitch, sback, bh, biggens, anges, goblin) but the only thing hes missing is a good BH. hes got about 1.3k with bo gear, does around 400 max dmg, but he only has like... 76-113? dmg bh. so if i got maybe sig gloves and a 15x dmg bh for him hed prolly do around 500. ive already wasted 4x-5x Barbs but other BvBs are a challenge sometimes... wastes ALL palis except for experienced synchers, and it even wasted sculps necro :D. he might denie it..... but i got it on video ;) *thank u fraps :D* so ya... if anyone has a high dmg BH with under level 30 req... im lookin. just PM me or message me *Mr.Crowley on West

[UnderAge]

i got that ancient axe if you want, i forgot mods but i think u should be able to use, does better dmg then ur bh

[JudasXPriest]

lol, nah, ive already got mace mastery maxed. >< plus isnt an ancient axe 2h?

[fledgeling]

I dont think your barb can win vs a level 30 firesorc (110fcr etc)
if someone was rich, he could use 2 sojs etc

[JudasXPriest]

hes BvB... so of course he couldnt win. hes got no speed so hed NEVER catch a sorc. he does very nicely vs palis and barbs. (that is to say that the Pali doesnt charge away before i ww). besides, i wouldnt pick a fight with a sorc with my barb. thats what Judas is for :P

[UnderAge]

sorry ment to say ancient sword, axe's are 2h yes but the sword is one

[JudasXPriest]

still. mace mastery lol. thx for the offer though.

[Fists of War]

hes BvB... so of course he couldnt win. hes got no speed so hed NEVER catch a sorc. he does very nicely vs palis and barbs. (that is to say that the Pali doesnt charge away before i ww). besides, i wouldnt pick a fight with a sorc with my barb. thats what Judas is for :P

But will a fire sorc be able to harm you if you use spurs? I tested a lvl 29 fire sorc with perfect gear in singleplayer and she did around 900 damage. With fire mastery that might be around 1.2k. Only 20 damage per fb then (90 fire res ^_^) That's a lot of fb's to kill him!

Can't wait to see a vid with your ww barb AND your bone nec. Never really seen a vid with a bone necro before...btw how much mana does your barb get after BO?

[fledgeling]

me and warlock had few very long fights (my level 31 fire sorc, with not that godly gear (just 110fcr/lots of fhr, only +1 skill) vs his gooood barb and I had to burn a ton of mana in order to kill him

[JudasXPriest]

Meh... i fight 4x fire sorcs and they do pretty decent dmg to my 12. hes got 65 fire res with his gear when he uses a pike and i use Fire res aura, which adds 76%, and hotspurs which add... 45? and it takes them 5-6 FBs to kill me. i usually try to avoid them as much as possible. just charge around them a bit and wait for a pause between thier attacks to charge them, and then charge away again. but my barb is too slow, so he cant catch sorcs. even with hotspur, ya hed survive, but hed never hit them so theres no point.

[sculpen]

First off, its great to see this thread still alive and kickin'.:cool:

I thought I'd share my expereriences with my latest LLD, my level 29 Bonemancer. His current stats can be seen here (http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t101/sculpen/8a4851aa.jpg). As has been stated in previous posts, he is a very strong counter to high-powered chargers. In theory, he should be able to beat a charger of any level, especialy in hell. The fight is yours to lose. You begin with the advantage, and should only lose if you mess up.

The first step to beating chargers is, if you can, back yourself up against a wall, tree, puddle, shrine, chest, anything to prevent urself from being knocked back. You can create your own knockback-proof barrier by making 2 Bone Walls in an X shape and standing in the center of it. Then just recast Bone Armor when necessary, and fire away with Bone Spear. If the charger is skilled, he may require a couple Bone Prisons to hold him still.

453 Spear damage may not look like alot, but coupled with 80fcr (10 frame cast), and non-resistable damage, it will lay waste to most enemies in a couple seconds of direct fire. Fireball vs only 75% fire resist would need to do over 1800 damage just to do the same damage as Bone Spear. Most people will greatly underestimate the damage he is capable of doing, and will try to tank, but by the time they realize this is a mistake, they are dead.

His resists appear very mediocre in that screen because well, I'm poor, and can't afford tripple or even dual res fcr rings. Instead, I have a ton of fcr single res rings that I switch around depending on the enemy. I have enough additional gear to bring any single res to 80% or higher.

I havn't been challenged hard by any LLD Sorceress thus far. Although I suspect a well played Blizz could be a very long and frustrating duel. Just havn't encountered one yet.

He is also a very strong counter to mid level WW Barbs. Most noob barbs will start out guarding town, so you take this opportunity to summon a Clay Golem next to them. After they attack it, you jump out and hit them with Decrepify, which I get from Ume's. At this point they will move extremely slowly, and once they enter a ww, there will be major lag for them, which you can capitalize on. If you're good at running, you can even go 2 or 3 vs 1, and beat them all. For Barbs I switch my gear to Ume's + Wormskull + Bbat's Form. This grants a golem that slows more, longer duration on Decrepify, and up to 40 fr/w.

Some tough duels to win have been vs hell rushed frost/shock zealers who use General's flail. This was mainly back when I only had about 50 cold res in gear. Now that I have Hawkmail and can raise cr to 90, it is not an issue. The only other real challenge has been LLD Hammerdins who are highly skilled at short synching. It is truely a test of skill to beat these invisible chars. I've only seen 2 LLD Hdins capable of doing this however.

And ofcourse another Necro of similar quality will pose a threat, and a great, intense, drawn-out NvN battle should ensue. LLD NvN is my 2nd favorite thing to do, after high level NvN.

For gear, simply meet these guidelines and your off to a good start:
80 fcr
58 fhr : 24+24+10
30 frw

Then just get as much life and resists as you can while maintaining those standards, and your necro will be good to go. Also, forget about Wormskull; make a Pruby mask and sport it proudly. The only Uniques worth using are Magefist and Wall Of The Eyeless.

For skills, max these skills in this order:

Spear -> Prison -> Wall -> Teeth

And remember to only put 1 point in Bone Armor. I also recommend 1 point in Clay Golem.

In the end, he is like bringing a minigun to a knife fight. And I suggest everyone make one, because LLD Bone Necros are vastly under-represented. They are highly rewarding to play because victory is based largely on player skill.

[numberss]

hmm ne one seen the lld lup?

his build seems completely original and refreashing to the low level dueling right now

[FireMarshal]

yeah, I fought him with my Bash barb. IIRC I only took about 1/4 of his life. He took about 30 sec to take me out. I'd like to know what he was using. For those that do not know, he is on USWEST ladder, and uses Zeal + ah...prayer is it? Level 10, 11, or 12, I think. It was a couple weeks ago I fought him.

[Fists of War]

Must be one of those replen chars. Get a good setup and rush and you can replen 12+ life per 2 secs with prayer/cleansing, and more with 12 life replen from angelics. I had a smiter like that but not really built right, but people still thought he was potting. So they pot themselves, and when I ask them about it they say "well you are potting so why can't I?"!

Anyway, it's cool to see you back on here sculp...it's been awile :)

Maybe I'll make a bone nec for my next lld. I'm tossing up between bone nec and hammerdin for a caster, and I'll probably remake my charger/zealer at lvl 18 after that. I havn't really seen ANY lld hammerdins yet, while i've seen at least 2 lvl 29 bone necs. I don't know which on would be better...spears for long range/armour against melee or high damage hammers that are hard to hit people with...charge+vigour is cool though...

[Turtleism]

Hey sculpy, think u might need a sticky for all that haha. Mind u i have made a LLD necro with sculpys assistance, and ppl have to work really hard if u wanna beat it. Definatly the best type of lld getting around atm, and i would love to find a charger that could beat my necro, but it just isnt gunna happen :)

And about that lvl 12 pally Lup, it is nice to see a new type of lld doing the rounds, i myself have dueled him, over, and over again, and LLTurtle is still holding his own (mind u a life mask may be in order). However i am slightly dissapointed that he is nm rushed, not norm rushed like myself (if ur norm rushed and still win, thats gg right there). Either way, great fun to duel him (specialy when i win ^.^)

[FireMarshal]

I will make a LLD caster eventually. I have a couple more things I want to do before that though ;)

That is a nice guide there Sculpen, I didn't have time to read it last night. Now that I have read it....it is tempting to try and make a caster of some flavor to LLD.

BTW...whats wrong with being NM rushed for LLD? My only LLD character that I have atm is NM rushed. He is temporarily on hold cause I only have one freakin' set of Angelic Jewelry, and am using them on my Popper Barb.....I gotta try and trade for them I suppose.

[Fists of War]

FireMarshal you're on west aren't you? Maybe you could get some angelic rings off sculp, he's got tons spare...

[fledgeling]

what do you do with your necro if someone doesnt attack? -__-
you stay behind your maginot line and recast it?

[sculpen]

what do you do with your necro if someone doesnt attack? -__-
you stay behind your maginot line and recast it?
I assume you're refering to a charger who doesnt attack? In that case you can either go on the offense and chase him down, which is risky, or you can just wait him out. Not saying you are, but most 2h chargers are played by very impatient people. Why rush to kill someone? Let them bring the fight to you, you're better off that way, atleast the way I see it. Also, a bone wall placed behind you is just as effective as one placed between you and the charger, without appearing as if you're 'hiding' from him.

[zrk]

Ive dueled a guy who had a level 12 replen zealot in europe. it was a year or so ago and he really owned. In that level range it is the best build i suppose. But it does make for extremely long duels...

[Fifty Squirrels]

On my nec today I dueled some chargers, but since I have points in Bone Wall and the other Bone wall spell, I got him when he was charging and speared him. Did the same thing with zealers too. Since they usually charge to get to me.

[fledgeling]

Ive dueled a guy who had a level 12 replen zealot in europe. it was a year or so ago and he really owned. In that level range it is the best build i suppose. But it does make for extremely long duels...


if you are talking about NL then it was probably me or thequz, who has a different approach (3skull helmet, life rep shield, amulet, life rep weapon)

I use angelics (life rep too actually) for +1 skill and gnasher for dmg


a charger can kill such a character in few hits anyway while the damage of the healer is low

[JudasXPriest]

Does anyone here consider a level 30 BvB to be a LLD?

[Solid Investment Potato]

30 and under widely seems to be accepted as LLD.

Any of you chums play NL East?

[Monzee]

30 and under widely seems to be accepted as LLD.

Any of you chums play NL East?

I honestly dont think that level 30 can be considered low level as by then you have access to all skills.. But however that opinion varies much from person to person. Personally I wouldn't consider anyone higher than level 19 a LLD but hey, thats just me :wink3:

[goomba]

Personally I wouldn't consider anyone higher than level 19 a LLD but hey, thats just me :wink3:

not just you. anything under lvl 20 is what I think of when I hear "LLD" - else, you're approaching the bottom end of MLD...

[Akukami]

And then you had BROTHER_ running all over ESCNL with 35s and below. The ones I remembered seeing the most were BROTHER_ARTIV (HDin) followed by BROTHER_STEVE (BvA Axer). Ah, those were some seriously funny times. :laughing:

- Akukami

[fledgeling]

Does anyone here consider a level 30 BvB to be a LLD?

IMO WW barbs arent lld

but if I had a "high level" lld (e.g. level 28-29 smiter, level 29necro) I would probably duel them

if we accept level 30 barbs, we should agree that the barbs can duel a level 30 sorc.. (probably not orb.. more like fireball)


still I think they arent LLD
Warlock once said that LLD games should be made by a level 19 character allowing ppl with 10 level difference to enter the game
(it reminded me of some guys who told me that they would own my lld any day while I was leveling him and then couldnt bring their level 80s to kill a level 11 defense smiter :D)

[weep]

i think lld = >30 since it's all about using the lower skills

had a pole bar leaper on hcc few seasons back lvl 29 was fun - that was more for hunting high 60's low 70's who didnt expect sudden death but those are the best lld's imo.

[RxT]

Yeah, I say the same. LLD, even though I've only been LLD'ing for awhile, is anything below 30. Some classes, like Barbs, have some really nice skills at Lvl. 30 so that kinda kills the fun.

[JudasXPriest]

Well the whole point of the 30 WW barb is to rape people 20-30 levels higher, not really intended for a level 12 charger lol. just like a level 12-15 lld is made to rape level 30s and 40s, a 30 ww baba is made to rape barbs and palis level 60-70. but i dunno lol.

[forumfreak]

hey are any of these worth socketing?? ive been itchin to socket something and was wondering if it would be worth it..

first is for my charge/zealer lvl 25
Skull Gnash Battle Hammer
dmg 74-130
112 ED
8 Max Dmg
50 Ar
50 to Undead

then lvl 25 Smiter's shield..
Bitter Badge Barbed Shield
Def 107
10% FHR
30% FBR
20% ICoB
36% ED
18% CR
mgc dmg -1

then my lvl 12 charger :)...
Plague Bite Pike
dmg 23-103
lvl req 11
65 ED
83 AR
1-8 LtDmg
21 Psn Dmg /4 Sec

also i was wondering if any elemental dmg would transfer over into smite from a weap. like if i had a weap with fire dmg, would it trasfer when i smite someone? i currently have no one handed elemental dmg weapons. :(


thanks in advance all!!

[Monzee]

I'd say that burning a hole in any of those items would be a waste of the soj.

The value of the items wont increase very much (if any) and when/if you decide to get rid of them later on no one will accept such items with a socket unless very cheap.

[JudasXPriest]

I hope ur not thinking of using the A5 quest to socket these items :wink3: , that would just shame ur LLD IMO. wasting a SOJ on any of those items, however, wouldnt be the best decision. The BH is pretty good (if its level 25 req). im not to sure about the sheild because im not too knowledgeable about smiters. also the pike is decent, but its not worth a SOJ.

[FireMarshal]

None of those items are worth socketing IMO.

The Battle Hammer could have much more mods associated with it. Better ed, more +max, more AR, etc...Hell, you can find those mods right there on a lvl 19 weapon, not Battle Hammer, but the only mod that pushes it past level 15 is the ED, and at level 15 it can be 105%.....

Shield, dont know enough about shields, but I know that you can get 17%FHR at that level...level 8 shields to be exact.

Pike, ED too low, no +max, AR could be better. The poison is nice though.


meh, maybe I just have too high standards for any items I would socket...

[forumfreak]

I hope ur not thinking of using the A5 quest to socket these items :wink3: , that would just shame ur LLD IMO. wasting a SOJ on any of those items, however, wouldnt be the best decision. The BH is pretty good (if its level 25 req). im not to sure about the sheild because im not too knowledgeable about smiters. also the pike is decent, but its not worth a SOJ.

lol a5? hell nah. its just i had a few sojs that i wasnt using. but thanks guys for your replies and info. i guess ill keep mephing hoping to find better things for my llds.

is there a site that shows the max mods for each lvl?

i thought my items were pretty good but apparently not. LOL.

also about my question with elemental dmg from a weap transfering through smite. is that possible? i know slow does with generals but thats about it.

[WarlockCC]

In the 'build guides and useful threads' sticky, there is a link to Orphan's list of Classic mods. You should be able to find all the information you need about what mods are possible at which level in there.

Elemental damage from any part of your gear does not transfer trough smite. Some of the more important ones which do work with smite are as you mention slowdown, but also Crushing Blow and Open Wounds.
Some shields have +x to damage, this does not add to your smite damage. No +damage mod in classic will add to your smite damage. To get the fastest smite possible, get a cutlas. You will need 25ias (7fpa) or 65ias (6fpa) if you choose to not use fana and you would need 8ias (6fpa) with a level 20 fana. Downside of a cutlas is that your range wil be 1 rather then for instance a flail's 3.

I'm not entirely sure this Smite IAS table is still correct, I think hope it is though, cause I use it for all my smiting info. :)
http://www.diabloii.net/characters/paladin/ias-smite.shtml