Barbarian WW overpowered in d2c?

[fredsta54]

Ever since i moved from expansion to classic (a while ago) ive noticed that the ww skill seems so overpowered. for instance.

My lvl 82 energy shield sorc (max es, max telek, 20 orb, 20 cm) had 1.4k mana about 80% absorb and 800 life. had 60 block w/ a 30/20 priz shield and 60 fhr.
In most pubby games noob barbs w/ low marts// bonesnaps/ steeldriver/ and whatnot could kill her in 1 full ww most of the time(when they cuaght me cuz i lagged). And when i was hit w/ conc it would go down ~40 life. I think that the ww breakpoints on classic are bugged so that any wepon w/ ww is as fast as the next.

a 600 damage ww w/ 5k ar shouldnt own her that easy, especially since most of the barbs wrere lvl 50-60.

Fred

[-Tempus-]

Ever since i moved from expansion to classic (a while ago) ive noticed that the ww skill seems so overpowered. for instance.

My lvl 82 energy shield sorc (max es, max telek, 20 orb, 20 cm) had 1.4k mana about 80% absorb and 800 life. had 60 block w/ a 30/20 priz shield and 60 fhr.
In most pubby games noob barbs w/ low marts// bonesnaps/ steeldriver/ and whatnot could kill her in 1 full ww most of the time(when they cuaght me cuz i lagged). And when i was hit w/ conc it would go down ~40 life. I think that the ww breakpoints on classic are bugged so that any wepon w/ ww is as fast as the next.

a 600 damage ww w/ 5k ar shouldnt own her that easy, especially since most of the barbs wrere lvl 50-60.

Fred

you are a sorc, dont get hit...

20orb/mastery isnt very strong and most barbs can get high resist to cold so
your orbs would do very little dmg. i have a post in the locked "all things classic" thread where i used my sorc with 28icebolt/orb/mastery vs my barb/pal with different setups. while the orb did a ton of dmg when they had low resist to cold they took next to no dmg when i had +400% resist to cold on.

the thing with ww in d2c is that it doesnt have any breakpoints. all weapons attack at the same speed

600 dmg ww is very low even for a 1hd weapon. a barb with high str or a good weapon can hit 2k dmg (without auras/enchant) open wounds/crushing blow is going to also add a ton of dmg as will some poison dmg.

a very good barb can do ~2000 ww dmg
a very good hammerdin can do 15,000 bh dmg
a very good enchant sorc and add 1800 fire dmg to an attack (or +5k with hallcast)
an amz with max LF...
a necro with max bone skills...
a sorc with max blizzard, metero, lightning...

no a ww barb isnt overpower. the need items to do anything (like most melee builds)

-Tempus-

[fredsta54]

This isnt about my orb not hurting or hurting other characters. This is about most ww barbs killing other characters in 1 ww, even if their weapon is not very good. I saw a lvl 9x sorc w/ amazing godly gear all socketed and perfect stuff.... die to a lvl 6x barb in 1 ww who had crappy items like low ed steeldriver, manald heal cathans, sigons etc. and he said he put all his points into dex cuz his frend told him 2 even tho he was using a maul . basically he was a n00b.

and as to my sorc not getting hit, if she lags, theirs nothing i can do

[-Tempus-]

one ww could hit 6 times, those hits can add up fast

even a barb made badly can still have max BO and a lot of life. the barb also gets more life/point in vit then other chars. how much life did the sorc have? did they have ES and how much mana did they have. the barb also has the NR skill.

many barbs that fight amz, sorc will go with a lot of r/w so they can close the gap between them and the other char. the slow they are the more dmg they could be hit by. if the barb is smart they will have cant be frozen on so they wont slow down when running after that other char.

now if you were to talk about LOD PvP and most chars using teleport you may find thats just one of the many reasons why people come back to D2C for pvp or pvm.

-Tempus-

[fredsta54]

my sorc had 800 life 1.4k mana w/ 80% energy shield. and, again, this isnt about my*deleted* orb. its about ww hurting 2 much. 60 block w/ 30 fbr. 60 fhr.





Watch your language, unless you want a temp or permanent ban.


~Aragorn

[Necrolestes]

WW hits so fast and so often that even a 75% block wouldn't be enough to prevent all damage. Sorcies need to get out of the way when a WW barb starts doing his thing (you can set up a Blaze, Meteor, Hydra, Blizzard, or Thunderstorm so that as he's moving towards you, he takes some damage; if he gets too close, teleport away). The WW isn't overpowered...you just need to adopt a new strategy to deal with it (WW CAN and has been defeated before...I remember tricking one into attacking me next to about ten Venom Lord corpses - I CEd him into oblivion).

[fredsta54]

If you have a mass of corpses bunched together in a p8 duel game, how does CE do in pvp if it hits em?

EDIT: if their amped

[TheCerberus]

I honestly think WW is bugged, not in terms of speed, because it's been like that for a long time, but in regards to blocking.

I made a Defiant one time, and with Shout he could get 12k defense. 12k defense and 75% blocking. I'd walk, because running lowers block, to block as much as possible. Yet Whirlwind barbs still got a lot of hits in. It took them a lot longer than other characters, but what dif is 5 passes to 1 or 2 on other characters? Nothing. I should have block 75%, yet it seemed to have 40-50% hitting me.

[-Tempus-]

I honestly think WW is bugged, not in terms of speed, because it's been like that for a long time, but in regards to blocking.

I made a Defiant one time, and with Shout he could get 12k defense. 12k defense and 75% blocking. I'd walk, because running lowers block, to block as much as possible. Yet Whirlwind barbs still got a lot of hits in. It took them a lot longer than other characters, but what dif is 5 passes to 1 or 2 on other characters? Nothing. I should have block 75%, yet it seemed to have 40-50% hitting me.

the the person you fight is higher lev then you they have an easy time hitting you. 12k def is nice but how much AR did the other person have? the # of hits also depends on the range of the weapon used and how long they are in range of you.

-Tempus-

[Fearlessone]

If you have a mass of corpses bunched together in a p8 duel game, how does CE do in pvp if it hits em if their amped?
Depends on the level of CE (range), lag issues, game difficulty, whether u are in blood moor and the corpses are carvers, etc... I would guess that the 1/3 damage in pvp situations applies to CE. My necro frequently kills non-barbs this way, using lower resist (for pnova skill). But amp would be better. Why? cuz CE is half physical damage and half fire damage. Fire is probably 75% resisted on a good barb, who also prob has max bo. Some players may be wearing items that make their fireres over 75%, so with a 50% lowres curse, it may lower their 90% res to 40%. These barbs prob have a good level of IncrSpeed, so lag issues come into play. A very high lvl of CE would help to increase the prob that they are going to be within range and get hit. I havent tried decrep, which amps somewhat less and slows, that might work better.

If u are playing in an 8 person normal game and all are high chars, forget it if u got 20 carver corpses in the blood moor. Try for the zombies in a hell game.

[BigBearCat]

the the person you fight is higher lev then you they have an easy time hitting you. 12k def is nice but how much AR did the other person have? the # of hits also depends on the range of the weapon used and how long they are in range of you.

-Tempus-


The block rate has nothing to do with the char lvls. My guess is that
the object doesn't have fast enough block speed. When he/she
successfully do the 1st block and in the block animation, the block
doesn't work anymore until the animation is over.

[-Tempus-]

The block rate has nothing to do with the char lvls. My guess is that
the object doesn't have fast enough block speed. When he/she
successfully do the 1st block and in the block animation, the block
doesn't work anymore until the animation is over.

block rate no, but the chance to hit depends on your lev, the lev of what you attack, your AR, its def.

deflection mod and fhr are both very nice to have on all chars pvp or pvm

-tempus-

[TheCerberus]

the the person you fight is higher lev then you they have an easy time hitting you. 12k def is nice but how much AR did the other person have? the # of hits also depends on the range of the weapon used and how long they are in range of you.

-Tempus-
Those points are neglible at most.
a) We were the same level.
b) Angelics can get a barb up to 11k, even at 12k that's only 50% chance to hit. Not to mention that at 75% block, at most I should have 1 in 4 hitting me, even if he had a 100% chance to hit. .5 * ..25 = 1 out of every 8 hitting me.
c) It was a hammer, so least amount of hits because he wasn't slowed at all.

And Faster Block Rate wouldn't have done anything, I was using Holy Shield (2 frame FBR) and to get 1 frame you need like 200% FBR.

[Immortality]

ive recently just restarted d2, and ive made a orb sorc. I have dueled several barbs and noticed that ww was alot more powerfull then before several. 1 Mistake and boom Im dead. It may be possible that i dont have the proper equipment or that i havent gotten my stats right, but my point is that sometime back then i could take several hits from a average barb but now it seems much different. Just a thought.

[Gorny]

Just a note to all, this site has a word filter.

It is not to be bypassed..

If people are warned and continue to bypass the word filter or swear in general, a temp or perm ban can result.

[JoeDamned]

Here is what I say to your swear filtration;

!@#$%

Happy?

[Gorny]

Here is what I say to your swear filtration;

!@#$%

Happy?


Sure.

Now you have a week temp ban.

If you create another account to post with while temp banned, you will be banned permanently.

Also, on your return, you act like this even once, you are gone for good.

[Locke07]

Here is what I say to your swear filtration;

!@#$%

Happy?

Immature people I swear...

Ya I agree WW is too powerfull on classic... but then again so is 15k hammer... I wish blizz cared more about its classic palyers.

[Murrogh]

Many chars can beat baba's. bone necros for 1.

[Immortality]

Many chars can beat baba's. bone necros for 1.

well...thats really pushing it. The necro can lower his resists. but a good barb as alot of health...too much really... From most bone necros Ive seen now and 3 years back, they just sucked and couldnt beat any1. Now that WW is overpowered a necro pretty much dies in one ww. And the necro cant tele.....

Necros could try with that slow down curse thing...what ever u guys call it good speeder barbs can bypass that.

Now Iron Maiden....nope doesnt work cuz by the time it hits ur butt you wont be alive.

Now if its a newb barb thats a different story.... just go ahead and spam your spells.... :D

Good sorcs can come pretty damn close, but nowdays babas just max out the res. :mad:

[NightShade]

You got caught. Thus you died. Common issue with sorcs when they get hit with stuff....any stuff...rocks, dirt..you name it. They aren't going to tank a hit from the hardest hitting melee char's highest end attack.


A barb's weakness vs a sorc lies in his inability to catch it. When they have surmounted this, then you will die. A barb with max res can be worn down, but it takes a long time to do this, as such there is more time for mistakes to be made.

Barbs are not god. They have high life, high res and high damage...but they need to catch you to apply the damage. Sure, a speedy lance barb has a pretty good chance of catching you in open terrain...

Stay out of open terrain. Hammeradins can throw up a whirling vortex of anti-melee. Necro's have their decrep + bonewalls (do not use them vs frenzy barbs...Use them to make him whirl the wall...it slows his progress), sorcs can tele.....Zons...well..uh..short end of the stick.


Thats what it breaks down to really. Stay away, stay alive. Force him to make mistakes. If you lag, well then yes...you will not fare well.

[TheCerberus]

A barb's weakness vs a sorc lies in his inability to catch it. When they have surmounted this, then you will die. A barb with max res can be worn down, but it takes a long time to do this, as such there is more time for mistakes to be made.

Barbs are not god. They have high life, high res and high damage...but they need to catch you to apply the damage. Sure, a speedy lance barb has a pretty good chance of catching you in open terrain...

Stay out of open terrain. Hammeradins can throw up a whirling vortex of anti-melee. Necro's have their decrep + bonewalls (do not use them vs frenzy barbs...Use them to make him whirl the wall...it slows his progress), sorcs can tele.....Zons...well..uh..short end of the stick.
I agree with a lot of this. Speeder barbs are a threat to a necro if they can catch them, and they do have a lot of speed, but decrep helps. More so than any curse, however, are Prison/Walls. Anything that stops him from running and forces him to either leap or WW = tons of damagfe applied by you. I like to wear twitch + WoE for max FCR and max block when fighting barbs with a necro.

Sorcs will probably die in one full WW from a barrbarian. So don't get hit. It's harder than it sounds, but it is possible. Think about it; he's always reacting to you. You're moving at a speed twice his, even if he's a speeder. So make use of it. Go in zig zags, then do drive bys; make sure teles have distance between them, but don't keep a pattern continuous. Zigzagging forever will undoubtably get you caught.

Orbs, if the barb has enough +max res and stacked res, can be regenerated over if you aim sloppily. Blizzards have a lot more damaging power. Fireballs have the best chance in my opinion; crazy damage, with spammability = nice.

However, barbs are one of the easiest classes to learn, have the greatest survivability, and natural weapons that makes them excellent vs all. Are they the best? No, I'd say bone necros can take down all with most efficiency. But in a pub game, I'd take a barb. WW speed as it is is fine, but I don't think it's blocked as well as it should be.

[Palm]

I like barbs. This last patch hurt melee alot and barbs are unless in CS with leech nerf... I'm glad they have a decent ww at least.

[Murrogh]

All a necro has to do I spam bone walls next to himself. and then shoot bone sperits and use lots of bone armor. Necros recieved a huge boost in the last patch. If u want 2 be lame cast iron maiden :mad: .

[fredsta54]

Im not even talkin about barbs being hard. I think their ezz to kill and they rarely catch me. Im not complaining either. All im saying is that a lvl 50 barb w/ a crappy bsnap shouldnt kill a lvl 80 es/fo sorc w/ top notch gear in a sigle, full ww

[Murrogh]

I think that they should. If a sorc is stupid enough to let him WW her she should die.

[NightShade]

Lucky crushing prehaps.....That or you lagged worse than you thought...Or prehaps that you rolled badly to block.

[Palm]

Im not even talkin about barbs being hard. I think their ezz to kill and they rarely catch me. Im not complaining either. All im saying is that a lvl 50 barb w/ a crappy bsnap shouldnt kill a lvl 80 es/fo sorc w/ top notch gear in a sigle, full wwHaving top notch gear dont mean that much in classic.

[Murrogh]

Lets see you play without any gear. having really fast cast is needed.

[fredsta54]

I have 70 fcr, Why would i play w/ bad gear?

[Murrogh]

I sould have said @palm.

[TheCerberus]

Palm didn't say no gear at all, he said not having the best gear.

I agree with him, in the base of b v. s. Perfect gear won't matter if he's got a dead on WW.

[Palm]

What I mean is the difference between top notch gear and what you can easily get isnt much in classic. A bit more defense, maybe around 20% more block, a couple of +skills and what 200 life? That wont make much difference when you're up against a barb. You dont need top notch gear to have 70% fcr.

[Murrogh]

Ya you are probably right. I take it back.