Single parent vs two parent of same sex

[Dirty_Zulu]

Just saw Mean Creek. Pretty good movie about kids dealing with bullies. One kid had two *** dads and he seems to have a good life. Another kid has a single mom and he's the most messed up. My sig. other used to councel troubled teens and she says good percentage comes from single parent homes. So I think married gays should be allowed to artificially procreate.

So what would you rather be raised in? A single parent home or a home with two parent of same sex?

[5Ws]

Definitely single parent. I cannot even imagine what it is like having two *** dads, or moms...
And fact of the matter is, you WILL get make fun more for having parents of same sex.

[DrunkCajun]

Yikes, this one's gonna get ugly. I wager 36 hours before this thread is locked down because someone can't handle talking about homosexuals.

At any rate, I see absolutely no problems with same sex parenting. In fact, same sex relationships are statistically shown to be more stable. Same sex parenting hasn't gone on long enough for there to be any real data collected, but in this day and age of cheating, broken families, divorce and remarriage every few years, and passing kids back and forth between divorced parents, I can't imagine how on Earth having a stable family is going to be detrimental to a child.

And don't give me your "unnatural" or "but the Bible says" or any of that. If we're talking about allowing it, we're talking about law, and I'm sorry, but at least for now, the Bible and US law are still separate entities. Just because something is forbidden in the Bible does not mean it should be against the law--if that were the case masturbation would land you in jail.

[Jimi-]

imo it dont really matter, a good parent is a good parent *** or not

[UserMathias]

My initial knee-jerk reaction was a resounding "No."

It has a lot to do with the fact that in Poland, both the kid and the parents would be very strongly shunned, and, in effect, ostracized. While it's politically correct to say that you accept homosexuals, the truth is (at least where I live) that it's not heavily supported if you mix children into the equation.

Apparently, the child will feel the "need" to identify himself as homo when he grows up, because he'll perceive it as normal. The assumption is made that homosexual love is something unnatural, morally wrong, and should not be seen by children. The assumption disappears if it's only two people, and the speaker knows at least one of them.

[zodiac66]

imo it dont really matter, a good parent is a good parent *** or not

Thats my view. Sexual preference has no bearing on how you rear children.

[SilentMagik]

First of all one has to look the childs best interest and thats all that really matters. I dont think it's an equal rights issue for *** people because being a parent is not a right, it is a privilege.

That said I dont believe being *** means you are a bad parent and I agree with zodiac66. *** couples should be able to adopt on the same premises as any heterosexual couple. When considering someone for adoption the thing to ask shouldn't be "Is this person *** or straight". It should be "Is this a mature, responsible person that is able to love and properly care for a child".

Its a complicated issue though and nothing is self evident. I think one has to consider each case individually. To determine all *** people to be automatically unfit as parents is discriminating and wrong imo.

[Anakha1]

Twice the love in raising a child is never a bad thing.

[Newman]

Definitely single parent. I cannot even imagine what it is like having two *** dads, or moms...
And fact of the matter is, you WILL get make fun more for having parents of same sex.

Sad but true.

I honestly would rather live with a single parrent then 2 homosexual parents. I don't believe it's right.

[Dirty_Zulu]

Apparently, the child will feel the "need" to identify himself as homo when he grows up, because he'll perceive it as normal...

I haven't seen any studies that says kids of *** parents would likely to become homosexual.

Although I would agree that kids do follow in their parents footsteps.

[itsPizzarific]

yah id have to agree. one parental unit.

[onionfarm]

It would only work if the kid had a strong outer crust or went to private school.

[Anakha1]

I haven't seen any studies that says kids of *** parents would likely to become homosexual.

Although I would agree that kids do follow in their parents footsteps.

If parents could "teach" someone to be homosexual, there would be none because no hetero parent teaches their kids to be homosexual. You can't "make" someone homosexual. You either are or you aren't.

And the getting made fun of is a dependent point. The effectiveness of someone making fun of the child and having it affect him is dependent on how strong or weak the child is. Parental love is more important than peer acceptance. Plus, as much as some conservatives don't wish it, young people are being more accepting of homosexual relationships.

[Steve_Kow]

I haven't seen any studies that says kids of *** parents would likely to become homosexual.

Although I would agree that kids do follow in their parents footsteps.
I believe that UserMathias is talking about the popular opinion in Poland, rather than about what is fact or what is his own opinion.

[skihard]

If my wife and I are both involved in a life ending accident, my 4 children’s legal guardian will be my wife’s *** brother and his partner. I have 3 girls and 1 boy and they visit on a regular basis and I see the way those 2 are with my children and I can think of no family member better suited for the task of raising my children. The best part for me is that one is a Republican (yeah) and one is a Democrat (not so yeah) but they both have views on life that are much like my wife’s and mine. Hers leaning more left on issues and mine leaning more right on issues, much like those 2 so my children won’t have one voice pushed on them but will instead get both sides of current events and then be able to decide for themselves.

[LunarSolaris]

We need to be very careful of avoiding broad general stereotypes here. Single parent households can be an excellent source for raising children as well if you have a good, strong parent to do the job.

As was said... all that is really needed is a good parent - straight, ***, in a partnership, with one leg, with three noses, black, white, green, Lithuanian, American, Martian, single, or whatever...




but we all know that Martians make lousy parents

[MixedVariety]

Statistics do show that in general, single parent households are less stable than two-parent households. I don't see what difference the sexual preferences of the parents are, if there are two of them and they're both decent, stable people. And, as someone said (Aknabbit, maybe), twice the love can't be bad.

[Lord_Shinnok]

Whoever lets me eat junkfood and stay up my bedtime is the winner

[IDupedInMyPants]

Well, first of all, let's not forget we're talking about a movie here. Fiction, that is. Completely fabricated.

Second, it's a personal opinion type thread. It's a pet peeve of mine that we can never even discuss opinions without someone bringing up the same old "*** couples are inherently more stable than straight couples" song and dance. Even if someone did manage to gather enough data for the statistical differences to be relevant, it still wouldn't be like no *** couple ever has problems and all straight couples do. And it still wouldn't be like we were comparing *** couples and straight couples, since he asked about comparisons between *** couples and single parents.

It seems to me like either way the kid would be lacking a role model of whichever gender is absent for a few of his or her formative years, which is a total bummer. I'd have to go with the *** couple though, because presumably any two average people together would have more time and financial ability to raise a child than any one average person alone.

[bigD72]

I think that we will all make certain assumptions and thus will have different answers.

I will make the following assumptions:

Single parent works and leaves kid to nursery and then to raise itself.

Homosexual parents one works and the other is a stay at home person.
Homosexual parents both work and the child has more financial stability, but same discipline as single parent.

In my opinion the Homosexual parents would be a better situation as far as the well being of the child.

I do also hold the opinion that that child will be made fun of a great deal and have a very increased chance of being homosexual as opposed to someone of a single parent.

I don't like homosexuality but I do believe every person should have the same rights.

For my dislike of homosexuality I would choose the single parent.
For my opinion of the child's well-being the homosexual parents.

[Ron Burgundy]

Well i'd like to see the kids make fun of the child who has two hot lesbians for parents. He'd be the envy of the entire male populace of the school.

[DrunkCajun]

I'm curious to know why a child raised by two homosexuals would be so much more likely to be *** themselves. If anything, they're more likely to be openly *** rather than petrified of their own sexuality, if in fact they are ***. Homosexuality is not a socialized behavior. It's not learned, or taught. Why, then, do so many people seem adamant that a child raised in a *** household would automatically be more inclined to be ***?

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Homosexuality is not a socialized behavior. It's not learned, or taught.This is still controversial. And its probably better we didn't get into it here :D

I read a study a while back that basically said kids raised by 2 homosexuals were more or less the same as kids raised in a hetero 2 parent family. They did have more chance of being homosexual, but the researchers believed that was because they were more likely to be willing to come out than those raised by heteros.

Garbad

[DrunkCajun]

This is still controversial. And its probably better we didn't get into it here :D

I read a study a while back that basically said kids raised by 2 homosexuals were more or less the same as kids raised in a hetero 2 parent family. They did have more chance of being homosexual, but the researchers believed that was because they were more likely to be willing to come out than those raised by heteros.

Garbad

My thoughts on it exactly coincide with the findings of that study.

At any rate, I only mentioned it to combat a misconception I'm already seeing in multiple people's posts, that somehow homosexuality "rubs off." No wonder our nation is so homophobic if uninformed straight people think that being around gays too much might make them one day wake up *** themselves.

[Dirty_Zulu]

For guys, unlikely. However it's more probable for girls. I know a girl or two that had boyfriends and then in college after hanging out with lesbians they turned ***.

When I first saw my friend who turned *** kissing another girl it was something...

[PublicEnemy]

So I think married gays should be allowed to artificially procreate.

So what would you rather be raised in? A single parent home or a home with two parent of same sex?
Gays shouldn't even be married.
They shouldn't be allowed to procreate.
Artificial procreation should be required only when natural procreation has failed,and since it's still impossible to make babies with 2 ppl of the same gender, let it be.

[Stevinator]

Gays shouldn't even be married.
They shouldn't be allowed to procreate.
Artificial procreation should be required only when natural procreation has failed,and since it's still impossible to make babies with 2 ppl of the same gender, let it be.

I'm going to try my best not to get to graphic, but instead let your imagination take this one, but seems to me that "impossible" inherently means it failed. I mean what if a guy had some terrible accident involving his baby making parts being rendered sterile, before he attempted reproduction (with a lady). That would still be impossible, and I doubt you'd have a problem with that.



As with all things this really depends. if the couple is not committed, either the homosexual or the straight couple) the kid will have to deal with the nasty break up and that could negatively effect him/her. If the single parent is stable in a career and doesn't work crazy long hours, things could end up okay. THe sexual preference isn't so much the issue, but time, money and effort the parent(s) are willing and able to put into child's life is what matters.

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Also, I seem to recall a custody battle a few years ago where one parent tried to get more custody because the other parent was homosexual. IIRC, the hetero put on a lot of evidence that growing up in a homosexual home would screw up the kid but the judge ruled even the best interests of a child were not sufficient to allow unequal treatment based on sexual orientation.

Can some of the lawyers back me up on this one?

Garbad

[IDupedInMyPants]

Damned activist statisticians.

"Our research proves that X is true, so X is most likely false because of Y that somehow we failed to account for until after the results came in. We clearly had solid methodology and well-planned collection techniques. We're professional statisticians. You're pregnant, you'll have to get out of the business. Don't forget to pack a coat, I hear Moscow's cold."

[bigD72]

It is my opinion that children growing up with homosexual parents of the same sex as the child will be more likely to be *** because parents (supposedly) have the most influence on their child. If the child see's their parents involved in acts of a sexual nature with the same gender I believe the child will precieve this as the way said child should act.

One example I can think of is if a child is exposed to lots of academic related materials they typically are smarter than an average child. If a child grows up in a 'rough' neighborhood where they see their parents dealing drugs and making alot of quick cash said child will probably be inclined to do the same.

[DrunkCajun]

It is my opinion that children growing up with homosexual parents of the same sex as the child will be more likely to be *** because parents (supposedly) have the most influence on their child. If the child see's their parents involved in acts of a sexual nature with the same gender I believe the child will precieve this as the way said child should act.

One example I can think of is if a child is exposed to lots of academic related materials they typically are smarter than an average child. If a child grows up in a 'rough' neighborhood where they see their parents dealing drugs and making alot of quick cash said child will probably be inclined to do the same.

I grew up with two of the most conservative parents you'll ever meet. My dad's an oil executive who was a Nat'l Honor Society member and a geek to the extreme, and my mother went to Catholic school. I did drugs in high school. So much for that theory.

Big D, we're also not talking about socialized behavior here. I think I made that clear. Sexual preference is not a learned behavior. It's far more complicated than that. At worst, a straight child growing up in a homosexual household may be a little more open minded to things and might explore a little more. At best, he/she will be far more open minded and will do what a lot of people around here can't seem to do--accept homosexuals as normal human beings just like everyone else.

[IDupedInMyPants]

I grew up with two of the most conservative parents you'll ever meet. My dad's an oil executive who was a Nat'l Honor Society member and a geek to the extreme, and my mother went to Catholic school. I did drugs in high school. So much for that theory.

Well, to be fair, plenty of conservatives do drugs in high school.

On a more serious note, I don't get why growing up with heterosexual parents is assumed to make you less tolerant of homosexuals than you would be if you grew up with homosexual parents. If that were true, wouldn't it stand to reason that a child raised by homosexuals would be less tolerant of heterosexuals than he would be if he were raised by heterosexuals?

[bigD72]

DC in reply to your reply.

In my opinion...

The fact that you did those things is probably because of your environment.

I strongly believe in nurture over nature in terms of people and their behavior.

Nature gives a foundation but it can still be over come by nurture.

Going back to my academics example, I'm certain that people are born a genuis and they can not study to become one, but there are probably genui that never reached their potential because of a lack of nuturing.

I'm not saying studying hard won't make you smart but studying alone will never let you reach the level of a true genius.

Also I would like you to note that I am trying to avoid definite terms and instead using words such as "probably or more likely or opinion" because there is no scientific proof or any kind of proof really for anything that is being discussed.

So if sexual preference is biological (I'm not saying it isn't) I still think it could probably be overcome by a surrounding of any sexual preference.

[Stevinator]

It is my opinion that children growing up with homosexual parents of the same sex as the child will be more likely to be *** because parents (supposedly) have the most influence on their child. If the child see's their parents involved in acts of a sexual nature with the same gender I believe the child will precieve this as the way said child should act.

One example I can think of is if a child is exposed to lots of academic related materials they typically are smarter than an average child. If a child grows up in a 'rough' neighborhood where they see their parents dealing drugs and making alot of quick cash said child will probably be inclined to do the same.

I'm not sure. I think some people are born ***, they have too much of this chemical or not enough of that one, whatever.

but I know some people that just up and change their minds. I don't think those that change their minds would have had it not been some *** influence in their life. It's not so easy as *** or straight at birth, environment plays a role too i think.

[psyadam]

Two parents of the same sex!!! Every time!!!!11111!!

[StarStageGurl]

There are so many factors that must be considered before saying one condition is better than the other... Unless all biasness towards homosexuals is eradicated, our opinions on this subject will be very very strong and unyielding. Okay, so let me look at it from an unbiased perspective...

Firstly, it really depends on the condition of the single parent. Is she a mother who got impregnated and unwiliingly gave birth to the child? Hopefully not. What kind of influence does each parent have on the child? If both my parents were loving even though they were seperated, I'd be pretty happy. As someone mentioned before, if the single parent worked all day and left the child to grow up him/herself, obviously, having two parents of the same sex would be better.

Parents can provide a child with a loving environment or a bad environment whether they are of the same sex or not. It's not so much what gender the child's parents are but how they treat the child.

So ultimately, it really depends on the situation... okay, that was a bunch of common sense garbage, I promise the rest of the post is better.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do, actually agree with DrunkCajun. The environment shapes what you believe in and who you are. However, children who have *** parents will not neccesarily be more inclined towards being ***. It's not a learned behavior. Being more open-minded to the subject, they might "experiment" and think about it more and make the right choice. As opposed to a conservative person who truely is ***, but does not admit it because of the beliefs he acquired during his period of growth. So statistically, maybe more children with *** parents will grow up to admit that they are, indeed, ***. This concept applies to anybody with the mindset that being homosexual is absolutely okay.

BigD, I think the kid will see plenty of heterosexual activity around him as well. The first thing that came to my head when I read your post was, "So having homosexual parents will make him close-minded towards heterosexuals?" I don't exactly think you're trying to say that, but you do get my point don't you?

If I had to choose between a wonderful single parent and an equally wonderful married homosexual couple for parents, I'd probably choose the homosexual couple just because I believe that a complete family is always better than a not-so-complete one. When one parent is away at work, I'll have another one to take care of me. If I wanted to talk to a parent about something important, I could choose who to tell. Also, there wouldn't be any major conflict between my parents with me in the middle if they were a loving couple. As anakabit and Mixed said before, twice the love is always nice.

I blame that confusing post on logorrhea. I just love that word. Logorrhea. Logorrhea. It seems like the more I say it, the more mysterious it sounds.

[neophase]

If my 2 parent's were of same sex, I'd try to the best of my ability to find my birth parents and I would never give up searching, even if it took 30-70 years!

If my child turned out to be homosexual, I would quarantine the kid first, see if he/she changed his/her path, than if that didn't work, longer terms in quarantine. And if that didn't work, prob brutally whip this person til they accept the ways of their fathers.

Must always pass on the seed of life, that's what our ancestors hope for 24/7. When we choose the other path, it's a path of greed and brings shame to our families. It's IMO unlawful IMO, so I would enact justice if they weren't willing to change; In a private matter of course. :)
Would never happen cause I know how I will raise my kids rofl, unlike more than half this current generation of *blah* parents hehe.

Peace

[Newman]

Well, to be fair, plenty of conservatives do drugs in high school.

On a more serious note, I don't get why growing up with heterosexual parents is assumed to make you less tolerant of homosexuals than you would be if you grew up with homosexual parents. If that were true, wouldn't it stand to reason that a child raised by homosexuals would be less tolerant of heterosexuals than he would be if he were raised by heterosexuals?

I disagree. I was raised with a Mom and a Dad, they always taught me that being homosexual is wrong and disgraceful. I feel ashamed for those people.

[Anakha1]

If my 2 parent's were of same sex, I'd try to the best of my ability to find my birth parents and I would never give up searching, even if it took 30-70 years!

If my child turned out to be homosexual, I would quarantine the kid first, see if he/she changed his/her path, than if that didn't work, longer terms in quarantine. And if that didn't work, prob brutally whip this person til they accept the ways of their fathers.

Must always pass on the seed of life, that's what our ancestors hope for 24/7. When we choose the other path, it's a path of greed and brings shame to our families. It's IMO unlawful IMO, so I would enact justice if they weren't willing to change; In a private matter of course. :)
Would never happen cause I know how I will raise my kids rofl, unlike more than half this current generation of *blah* parents hehe.

Peace

I find it incredibly sad that you would rather brutally beat your kid into submission than accept the way he is and live and let live. You'd rather psychologically mess him up by telling him who he is is bad and wrong and that you don't love him enough to accept it and would be ashamed of him instead of being proud to have a child that's strong enough to stand up for himself against people like you. It's sad that you think beating your child because he's not what you expected is "justice". It's sad that you're so ignorant of how homosexuality comes about that you think you can actually change it or that you can avoid it by how you raise him and that parents of homosexuals are failures. It's even sadder that some people think that this kind of unacceptance is normal and alright. It's this kind of crap that is what's wrong with the world, not things like homosexuality.

In short, your ignorance, opinions and bigotry in this matter are just so damn sad and foolish I can't even believe I read that. God, I hope you never have kids. You don't know where to start.

And then to answer your post with "peace". Oh the irony.

[Newman]

If my 2 parent's were of same sex, I'd try to the best of my ability to find my birth parents and I would never give up searching, even if it took 30-70 years!

If my child turned out to be homosexual, I would quarantine the kid first, see if he/she changed his/her path, than if that didn't work, longer terms in quarantine. And if that didn't work, prob brutally whip this person til they accept the ways of their fathers.

Must always pass on the seed of life, that's what our ancestors hope for 24/7. When we choose the other path, it's a path of greed and brings shame to our families. It's IMO unlawful IMO, so I would enact justice if they weren't willing to change; In a private matter of course. :)
Would never happen cause I know how I will raise my kids rofl, unlike more than half this current generation of *blah* parents hehe.

Peace

Despite I'm against homesexuality, if I ever have kids and they turn out that way I'm not going to 'quarantine' them that's just ridiculous. I would accept it, if they want to be that way, it's their choice, not mine. Sure, I would have my opinions on it, but I still wouldn't love them any less.

Your ideas are outrageous as they are ridiculous, you have no right to EVER look after ANY child.

[myleftfoot]

Just saw Mean Creek. Pretty good movie about kids dealing with bullies. One kid had two *** dads and he seems to have a good life. Another kid has a single mom and he's the most messed up. My sig. other used to councel troubled teens and she says good percentage comes from single parent homes. So I think married gays should be allowed to artificially procreate.

So what would you rather be raised in? A single parent home or a home with two parent of same sex?

I would defo prefer a single parent, but I imagine most *** couples who adopt (or whatever) have a decent regular income between them compared to a (most)struggling single parents. Hence the troubled teens scenario.

I personnally don't feel it's fair for a child to be raised in a *** enviroment.

[DrunkCajun]

So if sexual preference is biological (I'm not saying it isn't) I still think it could probably be overcome by a surrounding of any sexual preference.

I think part of the problem, here, bigD, is that you seem to treat homosexuality as some sort of affliction, disease, or birth defect. And I mean that in the most respectful way to you, by the way. I'm just making that leap based on the syntax of your posts. Here's a good example--you say you think it could be "overcome," like someone might fight to overcome a speech impediment or handicap. It's neither.

[Newman]

I would defo prefer a single parent, but I imagine most *** couples who adopt (or whatever) have a decent regular income between them compared to a (most)struggling single parents. Hence the troubled teens scenario.

I personnally don't feel it's fair for a child to be raised in a *** enviroment.

Both those are true. Like I said before, if I ever have kids and they turn out to be homosexual, I would love them like I would if I had a straight child.

[Anakha1]

I personnally don't feel it's fair for a child to be raised in a *** enviroment.

What's so unfair about it? If environment is so important to determining a child's behaviour, then surely being raised by a homosexual couple would teach a child to be accepting of different people, to support his or her parents in their lifestyle and to not feel shame over them. I mean, if they truly live in a supportive and loving household, I fail to see how anything bad can come of it.

The problem is that everyone here (to my knowledge) is speaking from the pov of children who have been raised by hetero parents. We're biased and no one should be jumping to conclusions about how it's "unfair" or "unhealthy". I'd rather err on the side of positive outcome than unfairly berate a couple's ability to raise a child based on their preferences in the bedroom.

[myleftfoot]

Both those are true. Like I said before, if I ever have kids and they turn out to be homosexual, I would love them like I would if I had a straight child.

Good for you. :thumbsup:

I was hoping that this was gonna stay on a homsexuals being parents topic but it seems to have moved onto "homosexuals, yay or nay?"

[Newman]

Good for you. :thumbsup:

I was hoping that this was gonna stay on a homsexuals being parents topic but it seems to have moved onto "homosexuals, yay or nay?"

Well yeah bro, just because I'm against doesn't mean I'm going to whip my child or quarantine them. There still a human being, and they deserve caring loving parents just like everybody else.

[myleftfoot]

What's so unfair about it? If environment is so important to determining a child's behaviour, then surely being raised by a homosexual couple would teach a child to be accepting of different people, to support his or her parents in their lifestyle and to not feel shame over them. I mean, if they truly live in a supportive and loving household, I fail to see how anything bad can come of it.

The problem is that everyone here (to my knowledge) is speaking from the pov of children who have been raised by hetero parents. We're biased and no one should be jumping to conclusions about how it's "unfair" or "unhealthy". I'd rather err on the side of positive outcome than unfairly berate a couple's ability to raise a child based on their preferences in the bedroom.

With children I would err on the side of negative and just go with the safer option. I feel that the child would grow up with quite alot of ridicule in his/her life, I don't like the idea of a child having to take stick for their parents sexual orientation.

[Newman]

With children I would err on the side of negative and just go with the safer option. I feel that the child would grow up with quite alot of ridicule in his/her life, I don't like the idea of a child having to take stick for their parents sexual orientation.

Your probably right about them getting made fun of. Honestly though, they cannot control it, they have no control over it at all. Making fun of someone for something that they have no control over is ridiculous.

[DrunkCajun]

Well then, we should stop letting people with mullets adopt, interracial couples, people with disabilities, people who drive crappy cars, people who live in trailers...

There are any number of things that will get a kid made fun of. Children are cruel to one another. If the best reason you can come up with for arguing against homosexual adoption is that the kid might get made fun of, it doesn't sound very convincing from here.

[Anakha1]

With children I would err on the side of negative and just go with the safer option. I feel that the child would grow up with quite alot of ridicule in his/her life, I don't like the idea of a child having to take stick for their parents sexual orientation.

I grew up with ***-loads of ridicule. My parents were normal middle-class, white, suburbanites. Kids will find anything to pick on each other over. Having homosexual or heterosexual parents is not going to change that. I say if they have a good home it doesn't matter. The ridicule will go away as they get older. Kids could have said anything they wanted about my parents lifestyle and it wouldn't have made me love or respect them any less because my parents loved me and raised me well. I think it would be much the same for children of a homosexual home. Sounds to me like the problem resides with the little brats doing the teasing and those who teach it to them, not the kids getting harassed. You can't blame the kids or their parents for what other small-minded people do to them and then punish them by not allowing them to have a family because of those reactions.

[Newman]

I grew up with ***-loads of ridicule. My parents were normal middle-class, white, suburbanites. Kids will find anything to pick on each other over. Having homosexual or heterosexual parents is not going to change that. I say if they have a good home it doesn't matter. The ridicule will go away as they get older. Kids could have said anything they wanted about my parents lifestyle and it wouldn't have made me love or respect them any less because my parents loved me and raised me well. I think it would be much the same for children of a homosexual home. Sounds to me like the problem resides with the little brats doing the teasing and those who teach it to them, not the kids getting harassed. You can't blame the kids or their parents for what other small-minded people do to them and then punish them by not allowing them to have a family because of those reactions.

Exactly, when I was in grade school I was made fun of because I had glasses and a bowl cut. It doesn't matter what, everyone gets made fun growing up for one reason or another.

[Damnatorius]

I would've preferred homosexual parents over divorced parents.

[MixedVariety]

I personnally don't feel it's fair for a child to be raised in a *** enviroment.

What, exactly, is a *** environment? How is it different than a hetero one? Is there, like, just gayness in the air? Do they eat different food? Use oil lamps instead of electricity? Do they walk around saying the word 'Homosexual' all the time so they can drive the difference into their child's head? Do men walk swinging their hips like women, throwing flower petals up into the air? Women smoke cigars, belch, arm-wrestle and swear?

Do homosexual people let children watch them having sex, where heterosexuals don't, so they can really drive the difference in?

I think not. I suspect there is no difference in an environment created by two people who love their children, regardless of what they may like to do with each other in private.

Edit: Damnatorius, your excellent post right before mine speaks volumes.

[Newman]

What, exactly, is a *** environment? How is it different than a hetero one? Is there, like, just gayness in the air? Do they eat different food? Use oil lamps instead of electricity? Do they walk around saying the word 'Homosexual' all the time so they can drive the difference into their child's head? Do men walk swinging their hips like women, throwing flower petals up into the air? Women smoke cigars, belch, arm-wrestle and swear?

Do homosexual people let children watch them having sex, where heterosexuals don't, so they can really drive the difference in?

I think not. I suspect their is no difference in an environment created by two people who love their children, regardless of what they may like to do with each other in private.

Exactly, in private. It's not like their flaunting so everyone can see it. I've stated my opinion on it, but the children are the last people we can talk negatively about.

[myleftfoot]

What, exactly, is a *** environment?

Hmm, a *** bar would probably have a *** enviroment? Where men kiss would probably be a *** enviroment? I could be wrong here, just throwing it out there.

[Raistlin Majere]

Where men kiss would probably be a *** enviroment? I could be wrong here, just throwing it out there.
Men kiss all the time in various cultures, man.

[Draconis]

A *** bar might indeed be considered a *** environment. But unless you're suggesting that *** parents would raise their children in bars, it doesn't seem particularly relevant. This idea that any environment that contains *** people suddenly becomes thought of as sexualised is a huge part of the problem. It's not a house any more, it's a *** house, so it must be an inappropriate place for a child, what with all the leather and porn that those *** people like.

[Dirty_Zulu]

Hmm, a *** bar would probably have a *** enviroment? Where men kiss would probably be a *** enviroment? I could be wrong here, just throwing it out there.

You even been to a *** bar? Men just french kiss while they dance. Kinda odd to see people french kiss after meeting for a few seconds.

Real World MTV has a scene in a *** bar. Pretty much accurate from my experience.

[DrunkCajun]

You even been to a *** bar? Men just french kiss while they dance. Kinda odd to see people french kiss after meeting for a few seconds.

Ever been to a frat party? Guys make out with girls while they dance. Kinda odd to see people making out after meeting for a few seconds. Even stranger to watch them go upstairs together 5 minutes later to screw.

What's your point?

[Necrolestes]

but we all know that Martians make lousy parents

I'm living proof to the contrary...

Seriously, though, either situation is ripe with difficulties (prejudices, money issues, both traditional mom/pop role models) but that doesn't preclude the child from being reared well by their parent(s). Same sex couples and single parents have the same amount of love to give to their children so excluding religious beliefs against same sex couples, I have no problems with a same sex couple raising a child together.

[Lord_Shinnok]

I think we have the early workings of a great sitcom going here. Lets pitch it to UPN.

[Dirty_Zulu]

Ever been to a frat party? Guys make out with girls while they dance. Kinda odd to see people making out after meeting for a few seconds. Even stranger to watch them go upstairs together 5 minutes later to screw.

What's your point?

Frat party = horny students
*** club = horny gays

So what's your point?

[DrunkCajun]

Frat party = horny students
*** club = horny gays

So what's your point?

Exactly that. One is no more strange or wierd than the other. You stated that it was kinda odd. I stated that it was no more odd than anything heterosexuals do regularly.

[bigD72]

I think part of the problem, here, bigD, is that you seem to treat homosexuality as some sort of affliction, disease, or birth defect. And I mean that in the most respectful way to you, by the way. I'm just making that leap based on the syntax of your posts. Here's a good example--you say you think it could be "overcome," like someone might fight to overcome a speech impediment or handicap. It's neither.
I treat it as what it is, a different way of thinking. By "overcome" I didn't mean it as the way one "overcomes" a disease, I meant in the way one can do something for the first time after not being able to. It works both ways, one can "overcome" homo and heterosexuality. I just don't have a better word to use.

[IDupedInMyPants]

I disagree. I was raised with a Mom and a Dad, they always taught me that being homosexual is wrong and disgraceful. I feel ashamed for those people.

I'm not entirely sure how you managed to disagree with a question, but ok.

[Damnatorius]

ok, so what if the kid would become ***? is there anything wrong with somebody who's *** then?

[zodiac66]

Being a single Mom, I can only say "quality over quantity". I have read what others have said about their children..children in a two parent household, and I thank my lucky stars every day that I raised my children to have better manners than those two parent households.

I have also read about the quality of life for single parent children. Children have basic needs: food, shelter, transportation, clothing and most of all, love. I will never have a $200K home, I will never drive a fancy car, my children will not be dressed in over-priced clothing..but I have as well as give, the most important thing-love. All the material things that a 2 family household can give are wants..not needs. Single parent families, the adults, usually give up their lives to provide for the children, and rightly so. I get up at 5 am to fix both children a good, hot breakfast and pack lunches. I sit with Liam at the bus stop to make sure he gets on the bus OK. I work 8.5 hours with a 45 min. commute each way. I come home and cook dinner for both children. I have playtime with Samara and homework time with Liam. Weekends, we go to the park, we go to the zoo, we go for walks, we play in the snow...shame on all of you who say that single parents aren't there for their kids.

[MixedVariety]

Being a single Mom, I can only say "quality over quantity". I have read what others have said about their children..children in a two parent household, and I thank my lucky stars every day that I raised my children to have better manners than those two parent households.

Hmmmm...I believe you must be speaking of my children, among others. No matter; it is what my children do in the world as they face it that matters to me, not how they act at home. They are good kids who are polite, likeable and make a good impression on others, doing well at school and college. I think we're doing all right.
For the record, I have you in mind as one of the single parents I (sort of) know who have put real effort into raising their children properly, and are beating those statistics. Your job is difficult, especially since you are going it alone it seems, but you haven't given in and sleazed out of it.

[zodiac66]

Hmmmm...I believe you must be speaking of my children, among others. No matter; it is what my children do in the world as they face it that matters to me, not how they act at home. They are good kids who are polite, likeable and make a good impression on others, doing well at school and college. I think we're doing all right.
For the record, I have you in mind as one of the single parents I (sort of) know who have put real effort into raising their children properly, and are beating those statistics. Your job is difficult, especially since you are going it alone it seems, but you haven't given in and sleazed out of it.

No, Mixed, I was not speaking of you.

[MixedVariety]

No, Mixed, I was not speaking of you.

Whew.
As an aside, I'm curious as to how your children get along with each other. My kids are very close (little Sarah is going to spend a college weekend with sister Meghann, for instance) but I see other siblings in other families fighting all the time. My own niece and nephew, brother and sister, can't stand to be in the same room together and insult each other all the time with biting ferocity. I seem to remember fighting with my brothers fairly often, but still we stayed close. What is going on with that? Parents of these fighting siblings seem to be pretty much ok; I have to wonder if there's hidden strife in the house or something.

[zodiac66]

Whew.
As an aside, I'm curious as to how your children get along with each other. My kids are very close (little Sarah is going to spend a college weekend with sister Meghann, for instance) but I see other siblings in other families fighting all the time. My own niece and nephew, brother and sister, can't stand to be in the same room together and insult each other all the time with biting ferocity. I seem to remember fighting with my brothers fairly often, but still we stayed close. What is going on with that? Parents of these fighting siblings seem to be pretty much ok; I have to wonder if there's hidden strife in the house or something.

They have their moments, but for the most part, they adore each other. The only real fighting is when Samara gets her hands on some of Liam's personal things.

[MithrandirX]

Well, most of you think I'm a pretty conservative guy, but I am here to say that I have absolutely nothing against gays, *** marriage, or *** adoption. So long as both chicks are screaming hot.

Mith

[Stoutwood]

I don't know what political affilition you guys associate me with, if you do at all. Either way I am all for homosexuals being able to adopt kids and have civil unions. There are more kids up for adoption than there ever are people willing to adopt, and I was friends a very stable girl that was raised by two moms.

I find it disgusting that sterile people are willing to spends millions of dollars to have a baby, while many children out there need parents of their own. And yet, people are screaming that we should have adoption instead of abortion, when there aren't enough foster parents to go around in the first place!

This brings me to the nature vs. nurture debate. "Since sexual orientation is such a complex trait, we're never going to find any one gene that determines whether someone is *** or not," says Mustanski. "It's going to be a combination of various genes acting together as well as possibly interacting with environmental influences." That is from Web MD. Basically while they believe that sexuality is partially or even mostly determined by genetics, it requires phenotypical influences as well. This seems likely when you consider how widespread bi-sexuality was in ancient Greece, and I highly doubt that that same percentage of the population was actually born that way.

Not that it matters. Even if we were to assume that something as instinctual as people's sexual preference was due ENTIRELY to their environment, kids would still have mostly straight friends and be bombarded by a primarily heterosexual culture. I don't see how anyone can oppose this no matter what your stance on homosexuality is.

[sunbearie]

Well said.

From the child's perspective, all things being equal, having two parents that love you very much is better than having just one that loves you. What has sexual orientation got to do with any of this?

I don't understand the "exposing" the child to a *** environment makes him *** argument either. If you grew up seeing your dad watch porn all day and became a pervert, thats a problem of parenting, not your dad's sexual preference.

Good parenting is independent of gender or sex.

That said, the kid might wish for another parent instead but so do the kids of "normal" families.

[StarStageGurl]

I have also read about the quality of life for single parent children. Children have basic needs: food, shelter, transportation, clothing and most of all, love. I will never have a $200K home, I will never drive a fancy car, my children will not be dressed in over-priced clothing..but I have as well as give, the most important thing-love. All the material things that a 2 family household can give are wants..not needs. Single parent families, the adults, usually give up their lives to provide for the children, and rightly so. I get up at 5 am to fix both children a good, hot breakfast and pack lunches. I sit with Liam at the bus stop to make sure he gets on the bus OK. I work 8.5 hours with a 45 min. commute each way. I come home and cook dinner for both children. I have playtime with Samara and homework time with Liam. Weekends, we go to the park, we go to the zoo, we go for walks, we play in the snow...shame on all of you who say that single parents aren't there for their kids.
Wow Zodiac, of course we'd want a mom like you:) That's all a child could ever hope for. What I am saying though, is that if a child has two parents like you, it'd never hurt. Of course, this world is far from perfect and the odds that both parents are like that are very very slim. I envy your children, they're very lucky indeed.

Good parenting is independent of gender or sex. W00t! Nice, simple, and very precise.

As an aside, I'm curious as to how your children get along with each other. My kids are very close (little Sarah is going to spend a college weekend with sister Meghann, for instance) but I see other siblings in other families fighting all the time. My own niece and nephew, brother and sister, can't stand to be in the same room together and insult each other all the time with biting ferocity. I seem to remember fighting with my brothers fairly often, but still we stayed close. What is going on with that? Parents of these fighting siblings seem to be pretty much ok; I have to wonder if there's hidden strife in the house or something. I don't get along with my little brother unless he behaves and is not completely unreasonable(which is happening more and more often recently). We look a lot like we're close from the outside though...Sometimes we link arms in public!:S Truthfully speaking, if he weren't my brother, I would steer very clear from his path. But because he is, I try to make it work.

I really think it depends on character. For instance, my brother and I are complete opposites, so...our characters really clash and he's 12(we all know what that means :mad: ). And, out of curiosity, does Chris get along with his sisters very well?

[Steve_Kow]

Zodiac, you could probably save a bit of time and let your son get on the bus himself. I think you mentioned before that he's 12 years old? At that age I was walking 1 mile to school and doing just fine. Someone his age doesn't need constant supervision and would benefit a bit from some independence.

[Newman]

Well said.

From the child's perspective, all things being equal, having two parents that love you very much is better than having just one that loves you. What has sexual orientation got to do with any of this?

I don't understand the "exposing" the child to a *** environment makes him *** argument either. If you grew up seeing your dad watch porn all day and became a pervert, thats a problem of parenting, not your dad's sexual preference.

Good parenting is independent of gender or sex.

That said, the kid might wish for another parent instead but so do the kids of "normal" families.

So true. I think it's been covered that you can't make a child go ***. As long as the parents love their child, that's all that matters.

[DrunkCajun]

Zodiac, you could probably save a bit of time and let your son get on the bus himself. I think you mentioned before that he's 12 years old? At that age I was walking 1 mile to school and doing just fine. Someone his age doesn't need constant supervision and would benefit a bit from some independence.

I'd guess its a tough age to let them go at, and a tough day and age to let them walk by themselves in a neighborhood where (if I recall correctly from an earlier thread) zodiac is aware that there are registered sex offenders living up the street.

Not trying to have a referendum on anyone's parenting here, either, by the way--around 12 my parents were just starting to let me roam out from under their supervision, so I can understand. A friend of mine who was raised by his single mother was also kept under tighter supervision by his mother for much longer than I was, so I don't know if the situation has anything to do with it. I do know that his mother was far more protective of him than my parents were of me, for a variety of reasons primarily related to her situation. That said, I don't know much about zodiac except for her posts on the forums, so I really couldn't say/judge her reasoning behind doing what she does, and won't.

[Raistlin Majere]

As an aside, I'm curious as to how your children get along with each other. My kids are very close (little Sarah is going to spend a college weekend with sister Meghann, for instance) but I see other siblings in other families fighting all the time. My own niece and nephew, brother and sister, can't stand to be in the same room together and insult each other all the time with biting ferocity. I seem to remember fighting with my brothers fairly often, but still we stayed close. What is going on with that? Parents of these fighting siblings seem to be pretty much ok; I have to wonder if there's hidden strife in the house or something.

My brother and I are like that. We are completly different. We do not even look lalike. Everything my brother is, I am the exact opposite. He is 16, and I am 20.

We cannot do anything togeather without a fight.

EDIT: my father had 2 brothers, Fighting was common in the house. His mother would only tell them to take it outside, and they would beat it out of their system.

[zodiac66]

Regarding fighting...I am lucky. There is a 10 year age gap between the two. Samara does like to pretend to play one of the consoles while Liam is playing and she has been known to throw the controller at times. She did mess up Liam's keyboard with her sticky fingers. They are the perfect age apart. Don't get me wrong, there were problems when she was born..she got quite a bit of attention, but that has since gone away. Now that she is talkative, Liam has a bit more patience with her. Liam is a special boy though. He is very kind and sensitive and only raises his voice to me when asked to do his chores.

To be honest with you, I have never met a single Mom who is a slacker and doesn't live her life for her kids. I wonder where those statistics came from.

[Damnatorius]

To be honest with you, I have never met a single Mom who is a slacker and doesn't live her life for her kids. I wonder where those statistics came from.

same here

I would still have preferred the *** parents though, no matter how loving etc the one parent is..

[Anakha1]

To be honest with you, I have never met a single Mom who is a slacker and doesn't live her life for her kids. I wonder where those statistics came from.

Moms (and dads) who ignore, abuse physically, sexually and mentally, and resent their children are in no short supply. You may not have met any, but believe me, they exist and there are a lot of them.

[MixedVariety]

Regarding fighting...I am lucky. There is a 10 year age gap between the two. Samara does like to pretend to play one of the consoles while Liam is playing and she has been known to throw the controller at times. She did mess up Liam's keyboard with her sticky fingers. They are the perfect age apart. Don't get me wrong, there were problems when she was born..she got quite a bit of attention, but that has since gone away. Now that she is talkative, Liam has a bit more patience with her. Liam is a special boy though. He is very kind and sensitive and only raises his voice to me when asked to do his chores.

To be honest with you, I have never met a single Mom who is a slacker and doesn't live her life for her kids. I wonder where those statistics came from.

Sorry, Zodi. I posted last night just when the forums went down.

The statistics I'm talking about show that a stable, two-parent household has a better chance of producing balanced, emotionally stable children than divorced families. Stress levels in divorced families, particularly involving custody issues, often entangle and injure the children involved. It is a natural result of such battles between parents and happens often, with the kids caught in the firefight.
If you've been raising your children alone all along, without nasty deadbeat fathers involved (or at least without getting the kids caught in the crossfire), your household is probably as stable as any two-parent household is.

Also, Moms who have taken on the job of raising the children in broken families usually aren't slackers, though they do exist. I have known of a few who want nothing more than to party and treat the children as impediments rather than a loving responsibility. Normally, though, it is the deadbeat fathers who cause most of the trouble, unless they have sole custody themselves.