Right act, Wrong monsters

[Nodrak]

I've been playing some lan games with a friend playing D2X. When we got to Act 5 in Nightmare we saw quill rats just outside of town. As we battled through the rest of the act we saw everything from bone mages to zealots to flesh spawns in place of monsters that are usually there. At one point we saw some of those Pit Vipers from Act 2 shooting poison and bone spears at us... I've played Diablo2 before but i've never seen any monster like that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/wildcat824/Screenshot008.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/wildcat824/Screenshot004.jpg

Finally we defeated Baal (though somewhat dissapointed he wasn't a quill rat or fallen) the portal was created behind one of the bump things on the bridge and we couldn't go through.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/wildcat824/Screenshot009.jpg

[Orbstu]

when 1.10 was released, blizzard introduced guest monsters in Act 5 in NM and Hell. The monsters there can be more or less any monster in the game.

The red portal does not matter in the slightest as when you exit the game you get credited with the quest anyway

[koeraokse]

its normal, in b-net games it is like that, this gives that "suprising moment" to the game, you never know who you meet next...


*priit

[Orphan]

Finally we defeated Baal (though somewhat dissapointed he wasn't a quill rat or fallen) the portal was created behind one of the bump things on the bridge and we couldn't go through.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/wildcat824/Screenshot009.jpg

Yea, the portal seems to do that a fair bit, if you kill baal right next to a wall or the edge of the bridge.


its normal, in b-net games it is like that, this gives that "suprising moment" to the game, you never know who you meet next...

You mean, "annoying moments", especially when you get the fallens complete with shamans :rolleyes:

[Nodrak]

Heh, well it was kinda fun and suprising but scary when the monsters started shooting things they usually don't.

Thanks for the answers

[greatrambino1981]

I really hate it when Burning Dead Archers show up in Hell. They mess me up everytime.

[greatrambino1981]

screwed up connection

[jiansonz]

Heh, well it was kinda fun and suprising but scary when the monsters started shooting things they usually don't.


It´s not just what they shoot. You have Infidels using Zeal, Spearwomen using Jab, Dark Archers using Freezing Arrow, all sorts of elemental damage added to the attacks of different monsters, etc.

[Turnipator]

Well this is a relief... yesterday I was playing D2 and noticed this 'feature'... thought my install might have gotton stuffed up, because the last time I played I had just gone through the portal from hell to act 5 and it quit back to the menu on me...
I have not loaded up a game today, but everygame I started yesterday had the 'guest' characters. just glad I dont have to reinstall.

[Turnipator]

Hmm does anyone know if it is normal for this 'feature' to continue to occur... a week later?
I haven't played all week but kicked up a game earlier and there they were... skeletons etc in ACT 5. (Playing same Character as before)

[Myrakh-2]

Guest monders are a standard feature; just consider them part of the normal monster roll.

EDIT: personally I don't even know anymore (or care, for that matter) which monsters used to be in the map in 1.09 already, and which ones came as 1.10 guest monsters.

[Necrolestes]

Hmm does anyone know if it is normal for this 'feature' to continue to occur... a week later?
I haven't played all week but kicked up a game earlier and there they were... skeletons etc in ACT 5. (Playing same Character as before)

You're stuck with the new guest monsters as long as you play the game in Hell or NM. Who the guest monsters are will vary from game to game (Burning Hell Archers in one game, Slingers in the next, and Blunderbores in the third...you never know who you'll be facing and that adds a nice element of surprise; it also forces you to adopt a real strategy and not merely spam a particular skill).

The worst guest monsters are the Bone Spear throwing Serpent Lords in the Crystalline Passage and the Halls of Vaught. Second worst are the Gloam-like creatures that swarm you in various levels of Act V and third worst are the poison-slinging Serpent Lords in the Halls of Vaught (all of these are guest monsters but when you get them, you'll be tempted to leave the game first and hope you get weaker monsters upon your return).

[Jimi-]

gloams in throne is the suxxr, isnt also the tomb vipers in halls of vaught bugged?,

[Oddity]

I hate Serpent Magus/Lord's throwing Bone Spears...those things hurt.

[Orphan]

gloams in throne is the suxxr, isnt also the tomb vipers in halls of vaught bugged?,

You mean the ones that shoot the poison spears? I think so (well, they seem to kill me sometimes one hit regardless)

[Myrakh-2]

The worst guest monsters are the Bone Spear throwing Serpent Lords in the Crystalline Passage and the Halls of Vaught. Second worst are the Gloam-like creatures that swarm you in various levels of Act V and third worst are the poison-slinging Serpent Lords in the Halls of Vaught

Which, of course, is all class dependant. For me, Oblivion Knights are the biggest annoyance, as their iron maiden kills off my melee-minions quickly. I also have to take off my mercs weapon, which weakens him, my minions, and takes up most of the free space in my inventory.

Different classes, different dislikes.

I don't care about the bonespear-throwing crystalline passage things at all, since the bonespear damage is negligible. I'm also in the habit of avoiding to get hit (by anything).

Gloams are dangerous, so I change my playing style to be more on the safe side. Frozen river is much more a problem than worldstone keep or throneroom, since it's more open --- instead of walls it has more rivers, which doesn't block a gloam bolt.

With maxed resists I don't get killed right away by random hits, and avoiding getting hit does the rest for me.

The serpent lords I don't know; I never go to Nhiilathak.

[Amarande]

gloams in throne is the suxxr, isnt also the tomb vipers in halls of vaught bugged?,

Regarding Gloams and Tomb Vipers -

This is a consequence of what is called the ranger bonus, a feature added to 1.10 Diablo II which grants a bonus to ranged attacks made by monsters.

As I understand it, the ranger bonus causes the monster's normal attack damage to be added onto any and all ranged attacks that they have. (There are likely some exceptions to this rule, as things like Act Boss special attacks in particular don't seem to honor this, but the vast majority of monster missiles honor the ranger bonus.)

This causes a particular issue with these two monsters for the following reasons -

Gloams - Their melee attack (yes, they have a melee attack! Try casting Dim Vision on them and fighting them mano a mano if you want to see it), has a mana drain feature. It appears that this mana damage is being applied to the ranger bonus as LIFE damage, however, which contributes to the extreme lethality of the bolts.

Also, it's notable in the case of Gloams that each bolt is really, apparently, several bolts on top of each other (like the lightning globs o' doom that MSLEBs used to make in 1.09). Thus, since they are several separate hits, straight magic damage reduction/absorb gear such as Skins of the Vipermagi and Thundergods' Vigor are extremely useful here.

I think Gloams are less lethal than Tomb Vipers on Nightmare, but I'm not sure about Hell.


Tomb Vipers - The fun thing here is that every time you are dosed by their poison clouds, you are being basically hit with their physical attack too. Worse, since their melee attack is Charge (and this seems to be being treated as such, based on evidence from those familiar with the different 'got hit' sounds in D2), this makes for a world of physical hurt at the beginning of each poison dose. Every time you move within their poison cloud, too, you get re-dosed (I'm not quite sure how many frames per hit here), which means you get 'hit' again for the physical damage, too. Snap, crackle, pop, Sorc Krispies! :)

Standing still in the cloud helps a fair bit (since you then only take the poison damage from the active dose), but with their charge attack this can be a bit difficult to do. Also, I don't think you can, say, die in town from this poison. But it's basically poison + hidden physical, and a hidden physical that is applied FREQUENTLY in many cases, which explains everything ...


Personally, the thing I most dislike of the guest monster system is the fact that the regular Act 5 monsters in many cases rarely if ever appear outside of Normal difficulty. For instance, can the Stygian Fury even occur on Nightmare or Hell, or is that now a Normal-only enemy? ...

[jiansonz]

personally I don't even know anymore (or care, for that matter) which monsters used to be in the map in 1.09 already, and which ones came as 1.10 guest monsters.

Normal hasn´t changed, so you get reminded each time you play there, as there is zero monster variantion (except for bosses) in Normal. I know them all, and would have no trouble listing them for each of the act 5 areas.



Personally, the thing I most dislike of the guest monster system is the fact that the regular Act 5 monsters in many cases rarely if ever appear outside of Normal difficulty. For instance, can the Stygian Fury even occur on Nightmare or Hell, or is that now a Normal-only enemy? ...

I think all the "native" act 5 monsters can still spawn in their respective areas, so you should be able to find Stygian Furies in NM/Hell Throne level. They can also spawn in NM/Hell Worldstone Keep level 3.

Personally, I am glad to see less Frenzytaurs overall, and I think the larger variation of monsters makes it more interesting.

[Jimi-]

Regarding Gloams and Tomb Vipers -

This is a consequence of what is called the ranger bonus, a feature added to 1.10 Diablo II which grants a bonus to ranged attacks made by monsters.

As I understand it, the ranger bonus causes the monster's normal attack damage to be added onto any and all ranged attacks that they have. (There are likely some exceptions to this rule, as things like Act Boss special attacks in particular don't seem to honor this, but the vast majority of monster missiles honor the ranger bonus.)

This causes a particular issue with these two monsters for the following reasons -

Gloams - Their melee attack (yes, they have a melee attack! Try casting Dim Vision on them and fighting them mano a mano if you want to see it), has a mana drain feature. It appears that this mana damage is being applied to the ranger bonus as LIFE damage, however, which contributes to the extreme lethality of the bolts.

Also, it's notable in the case of Gloams that each bolt is really, apparently, several bolts on top of each other (like the lightning globs o' doom that MSLEBs used to make in 1.09). Thus, since they are several separate hits, straight magic damage reduction/absorb gear such as Skins of the Vipermagi and Thundergods' Vigor are extremely useful here.

I think Gloams are less lethal than Tomb Vipers on Nightmare, but I'm not sure about Hell.


Tomb Vipers - The fun thing here is that every time you are dosed by their poison clouds, you are being basically hit with their physical attack too. Worse, since their melee attack is Charge (and this seems to be being treated as such, based on evidence from those familiar with the different 'got hit' sounds in D2), this makes for a world of physical hurt at the beginning of each poison dose. Every time you move within their poison cloud, too, you get re-dosed (I'm not quite sure how many frames per hit here), which means you get 'hit' again for the physical damage, too. Snap, crackle, pop, Sorc Krispies! :)

Standing still in the cloud helps a fair bit (since you then only take the poison damage from the active dose), but with their charge attack this can be a bit difficult to do. Also, I don't think you can, say, die in town from this poison. But it's basically poison + hidden physical, and a hidden physical that is applied FREQUENTLY in many cases, which explains everything ...


Personally, the thing I most dislike of the guest monster system is the fact that the regular Act 5 monsters in many cases rarely if ever appear outside of Normal difficulty. For instance, can the Stygian Fury even occur on Nightmare or Hell, or is that now a Normal-only enemy? ...



the vipers are bugged, i tried they killed me in 1 hit

[custo]

Personally I HATE the guest monsters. Act 5 was my all time favorite act, and the only reason I beat the other 4 acts was to get to Act 5. But now I have to deal with all sorts of guest monsters, and barely get to fight the real Act 5 ones.

I just got to Act 5 Hell with my assassin, and did a bloody foothill run, and surprise surprise the only time I saw any enslaved was when I fought Shenk, besides those 20 or so enslaved all I fought were burning dead archers.

I really really hope blizzard changes this in the next patch. Or at least make the guest monsters a small minority in act 5, with the native monsters being like 85% of the ones we fight.

[TopHatCat64]

Personally I HATE the guest monsters. Act 5 was my all time favorite act, and the only reason I beat the other 4 acts was to get to Act 5. But now I have to deal with all sorts of guest monsters, and barely get to fight the real Act 5 ones.

I just got to Act 5 Hell with my assassin, and did a bloody foothill run, and surprise surprise the only time I saw any enslaved was when I fought Shenk, besides those 20 or so enslaved all I fought were burning dead archers.

I really really hope blizzard changes this in the next patch. Or at least make the guest monsters a small minority in act 5, with the native monsters being like 85% of the ones we fight.

The reason act 5 got all the guest monsters was because act 5 monsters were just too easy outside of Frenzytaurs. If you look at the arreat summit and check out all the native act 5 monsters you'll notice the only non-melee attackers are the Succubi, Imps, Death Maulers and Catapults. The Imps damage is pathetic and while annoying to catch, they pose zero danger to anyone with decent resists. The Catapults are pathetic as well. Your merc can tank the Maulers if you can't quite easily. The Succubi can pose problems in large groups but having only ONE dangerous ranged attacker in an entire act is too easy.

The melee crew is also particularly easy in comparison to other acts.

With everyone and their mother hiring an act 2 merc in 1.10 handling melee monsters is quite easy for most classes. Ranged attackers can blast away with impunity and melee characters can only be hit be so many at once.

Act 5 SHOULD be the hardest act since it's the last one and it certainly is right now with OK's, Gloams, and archers galore.

[custo]

But now I have nowhere to level up :(

[RTB]

Regarding Gloams and Tomb Vipers -

This is a consequence of what is called the ranger bonus, a feature added to 1.10 Diablo II which grants a bonus to ranged attacks made by monsters.

As I understand it, the ranger bonus causes the monster's normal attack damage to be added onto any and all ranged attacks that they have. (There are likely some exceptions to this rule, as things like Act Boss special attacks in particular don't seem to honor this, but the vast majority of monster missiles honor the ranger bonus.)
Sorry, false. Ranged dmg was simply beefed up a lot in 1.10, and then you have the bugged monsters.

Gloams - Their melee attack (yes, they have a melee attack! Try casting Dim Vision on them and fighting them mano a mano if you want to see it), has a mana drain feature. It appears that this mana damage is being applied to the ranger bonus as LIFE damage, however, which contributes to the extreme lethality of the bolts.
Unless mana burn, the Lightning doesn't drain mana. However, the dmg for the Gloam Lightning dmg is taken from the wrong column and the values for the melee mana burn are used, which is 200 - 300, instead of 5 - 190 in hell.

Also, it's notable in the case of Gloams that each bolt is really, apparently, several bolts on top of each other (like the lightning globs o' doom that MSLEBs used to make in 1.09). Thus, since they are several separate hits, straight magic damage reduction/absorb gear such as Skins of the Vipermagi and Thundergods' Vigor are extremely useful here.
It's just one big bolt. Max lightning resist +tgods allows healing off their bolts about 75% of the time.

Tomb Vipers - The fun thing here is that every time you are dosed by their poison clouds, you are being basically hit with their physical attack too. Worse, since their melee attack is Charge (and this seems to be being treated as such, based on evidence from those familiar with the different 'got hit' sounds in D2), this makes for a world of physical hurt at the beginning of each poison dose. Every time you move within their poison cloud, too, you get re-dosed (I'm not quite sure how many frames per hit here), which means you get 'hit' again for the physical damage, too. Snap, crackle, pop, Sorc Krispies! :)
There is some additional physical dmg per frame, but how they do their dmg exactly is still unknown.

Personally, the thing I most dislike of the guest monster system is the fact that the regular Act 5 monsters in many cases rarely if ever appear outside of Normal difficulty. For instance, can the Stygian Fury even occur on Nightmare or Hell, or is that now a Normal-only enemy? ...
Normal only IIRC.

[Cerberus]

IMO guest monsters was a good idea. The fact that the ranged attacks are beefed up combined with the gloam and viper(?) bug makes it a bit annoying. If you need to be aware of bugs to survive, something is messed up..
And Iron maiden certainly does not add to the fun. Overpowered IMO, and should at least have been nerfed somewhat in 1.10.

I personally don't have big problems with the gloams when doing baalruns, but everybody just seem to quit as soon as the show up in the throneroom (can't blame em though. Not cool dying in your 9xs).

And finally, I'll have to add a bonus rant about those undead stygian dolls:
I still don't belive they didn't invent those on a night out.. ;)

[custo]

The other day I was doing a Baalrun and got stuck with the stygian dolls and those damn iron maiden wielding guys, and i'm an assassin

[muzzz]

Guest monsters rock.

Sure, the first time I saw them it was burning dead archers and slingers in the bloody foothills with my skelliemancer. Foothills are always hard on skelly AI. Usually only 2-3 attacked and got their bony behinds handed to them on a platter. The rest just got stuck and left me as projectile bait. No amount of spamming attract saved me. I think it took about 2 hours and 10 deaths before I managed to get through. And still I love those guest monsters :grin:

There's nothing as exciting for me as inching into an Act V area wondering what's there, waiting to kill me. Some monster combos are deadly as hell, but there's almost always something to be done about it. If I had thought to shop for a teleport ammy in the example above things wouldn't have been half as bad.

And sometimes things just get plain easier. I've always hated taking a cold build into the icy dungeons of Act V, knowing that the frozen horrors would take ages to kill. At least now there's a chance they won't spawn as much