duel axe WW barb

[Over-Dosed]

im a WW barb and using axes, im currently using EBOTD zerk, and a Beast Zerk, i was wondering what the best combination would be for PVM,

I was thinking:

2 EBOTD Zerks,
EBOTD Zerk + BEAST Zerk,
EBOTD Zerk + DOOM Zerk,
BEAST Zerk + DOOM Zerk,

or mayb a diff combination would be even better? i dont know, please reply with suggestions

[rikstaker]

If you are asking for the best,then neither of the above qualifies.A dualwield combination that doesnt pack grief is not he best.So:

Grief/doom(defensive)
Grief/beast(offensive)

Rik

[AdunaCCDanimoth]

Though if you're not a person that worships the ground a Grief touches like I am, the Beast/Doom combo provides the most amusement in absolute carnage potential.

[Over-Dosed]

i play NL, so i can't get a grief, sorry

[chaca]

Hey Rik, would you still make the grief in a zerker since you have to roll at least 34 IAS IIRC, or would you make it in a phase? Making it in a phase doesn't seem like an option to me as you would have to change your mastery to sword (as well as whatever else you are dual wielding).

[rikstaker]

@chaca:If you dualwield,you have to take a gamble with the zerker no other way.But if I am weapon shield,I'll make it in grief zweihander,range 3 & base speed -10,so guaranteed lwbp,besides the real reason is my hatred for the tiny zerk axe graphic.

Rik

[aznbboi16]

Grief is overrated on barbs. The average damage may be a little higher, but really the biggest thing it has over ebotd is the 20%ds. The damage really isn't all that spectacular.

People are forgetting that ebotdz still provides a higher max damage as well as 60 stat points which in turn = 240 life which after BO is 500+. Botd also has 50 AR and more IAS for conc'ing or zerking (but I guess if you mana pot you don't need that...).

Yes Grief imo is a bit better than ebotd, but it seems like soon people will be saying "zomfg nub using ebotd?!/1"...It's completely overrated, and personally I won't be rebuilding my barb for Grief.

Well anyways. For PvM, I'd say ebotd + beast would be best. You get high damage from ebotd and crushing blow from beast. No need for Grief here...Grief lacks mana leech and life leech, definitely not the best pvm weapon...

[rikstaker]

Grief is overrated on barbs. The average damage may be a little higher, but really the biggest thing it has over ebotd is the 20%ds. The damage really isn't all that spectacular.

People are forgetting that ebotdz still provides a higher max damage as well as 60 stat points which in turn = 240 life which after BO is 500+. Botd also has 50 AR and more IAS for conc'ing or zerking (but I guess if you mana pot you don't need that...).

Yes Grief imo is a bit better than ebotd, but it seems like soon people will be saying "zomfg nub using ebotd?!/1"...It's completely overrated, and personally I won't be rebuilding my barb for Grief.

Well anyways. For PvM, I'd say ebotd + beast would be best. You get high damage from ebotd and crushing blow from beast. No need for Grief here...Grief lacks mana leech and life leech, definitely not the best pvm weapon...

Have to admit,I didnt notice it was for pvm,so I wouldnt have awarded grief the defacto status.But heres why grief is not overrated:

1.High +max dmg instead of ed%,so the base weapon dmg can be ignored.Instead people can use low dmg but really fast base speed weapons like phase blades,which means hitting 9fpa conc/zerk or 5fpa frenzy is a cakewalk.That isnt the case with botds,since phase blades dont come in eths & even so the base dmg is pathetic to qualify as a botd weapon.So the ias argument actually works in favor of grief.

2.ITD:Ar is to be ignored almost totally for pvm,battlecry everything above normal monsters.

3.Deadly:self explanatory

4.CTC venom:Adds 305-325 almost instant dmg.

5.Life & mana after kill:Nothing special,but if you kill fast enough,helps against unleechables.

Granted botd is more stat friendly & with onboard leech,but these are mods that can be compensated from the rest of the gear.

But still, I rate 2handers above dualwield for pvm,for which botd is still king.:)

Rik

[Decebal]

I assume u speak about BOTD made in Eth Great Poleaxe Rik??? ;) BAD BOY STYLE! The B52 of all weapons... :D

I really have to try a poleaxe barb with BOTD! i only have an eth giant tresher son that will be weapon number 2...Must get a hold of an eth great pole axe soon...

/Dec

[chaca]

I assume u speak about BOTD made in Eth Great Poleaxe Rik??? ;) BAD BOY STYLE! The B52 of all weapons... :D

I really have to try a poleaxe barb with BOTD! i only have an eth giant tresher son that will be weapon number 2...Must get a hold of an eth great pole axe soon...

/Dec

I second that. The site of a barb sitting there with a gigantic spear is pretty cool. Much better then when I see my barb with his toothpick looking botdz

[skygoneblue]

I actually just finished making a pvm ww barb, and I went with Doom+BotD. I literally walked through Hell with no problems. I could see Beast working too, but the Holy Freeze aura was more important IMO with no shield.

[luis19]

BOTD has higher dmg, but grief has MUCH higher min dmg, which more than compensates for the lower max dmg.

best setup is:
grief/beast (mcm showed dmg per frame and it was far supieror to botd/beast)

nl:
botd/beast

other combos will work, but the above two provide the highest dmg output as well as good mods like +stats, OW, CB, CTC venom,etc.

[skygoneblue]

Nevermind that the ED on Beast totally sucks compared to Doom, and the slowing effect of Holy Freeze is pretty hard to compare to other mods. Whatever though, you're entitled to your opinion. :)

[morotsjos]

Actually beast does almost exactly the same dmg as doom because of fana. Fana also boosts main-hand dmg, i.e. the average dmg of botd/grief+doom is pathetic compared to botd/grief+beast.
I find holy freeze utterly useless in pvm btw, a dualwielding wwbarb is pretty much immortal (even with crapdef) except for iron maiden. Killing faster on the other hand is always preferable.

[skygoneblue]

Well, don't forget that Doom also grants +2 skills, improving your Iron Skin, Natural Resist, Weapon Mastery, Increased Speed, and your Whirlwind skill level. This means a ton of passive bonuses on top of a Holy Freeze aura, Open Wounds, Deadly Strike, and a pretty high ED.

Can I see some numbers just out of curioisty? If Beast really is as good as you say it is, I might try it on my WW Barb just for ****s and giggles! :)

[morotsjos]

The passive bonuses are basically worthless imo, a few % more increased speed and resist doesn't matter =)
Sure, the ds is nice, but beast has cb which is even better in pvm.
In pvp beast >>>>>>>>>>> doom in 98% of the duels.

Anyway, I just swapped beast for doom on my barb. My offhand damage was raised from ~3500 to ~3570. My mainhand (botd) dmg was lowered from ~6k to ~4.8k.

Try it out and you'll see that you can live without holy freeze, although it's certainly helpful if you play with others. I wouldn't recommend beast+doom though, stick with botd in that case.