View Full Version : New Pala PvP Build? Share your ideas pls!
DIEnamic
10-03-2005, 21:56
After getting wasted once again in pvp by the numerous hammerdins, smiters, windy druids, and other cookie-cutters, I decided to remake my zealot. While browsing the Paladin forum here for ideas on how to build a better PvP zealot, I pieced together a few of your guys ideas to make a brand new type of paladin (name suggestions please?). Let's get to the point of this thread.... the whole idea behind my paladin is to combine dual Dreams with conviction and charge (maybe foh too?). The dual dreams should compliment my maxed holy shock, which brings me to my first question: Say I had a level 35 holy shock, would it stack with my dual Dreams for a level 65 holy shock (keep in mind conviction will be the active aura, I will recieve the holy shock from the dreams)?
Maybe you could see where this build has A LOT of potential. The strategy behind PvP with this build is to stay out of their range while the holy shock eats them up then seal the deal with a swift charge or fist of heavens. For even more damage, I was thinking a 4x 5/5 Light facet armor to lower their resist even more, which brings me to my next question, will the damage bonus on the facets add to my dreams holy shock?
So far this build is looking good, please post any suggestions you have for this extraordinary build.
Chimaira
10-03-2005, 22:25
This isn't exactly new... Maybe try a Widowmaker with guided arrow for a bit more offensive approach instead of just standing there pulsing away. You could check this out for more inspiration...
http://forums.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=319758
ive had one of these for about a month... the shock pulses are too weak to kill all but sorc and **** chrs, i suggest go for charger with em using convict and grief. bear in mind to use angelic combo as you will probs hav ar problems.
DIEnamic
11-03-2005, 02:39
Why not use fist of heavens instead of charge?
Diabolico x64
11-03-2005, 05:13
The dual dreams should compliment my maxed holy shock, which brings me to my first question: Say I had a level 35 holy shock, would it stack with my dual Dreams for a level 65 holy shock (keep in mind conviction will be the active aura, I will recieve the holy shock from the dreams)?
That won't work. The Dreams' Holy Shocks will stack to give you a lvl 30 Holy Shock, but it will not stack with your own Holy Shock. The most you can get while using a different primary aura, is slvl 30 HShock, from just the Dreams.
The Dreamer's main source of damage is from melee attacks, not from the pulsing, ranged lightning damage. An slvl 30 HShock will give you around 1.6k or so melee lightning damage. With Conviction, that can add up to some very nice damage.
That won't work. The Dreams' Holy Shocks will stack to give you a lvl 30 Holy Shock, but it will not stack with your own Holy Shock. The most you can get while using a different primary aura, is slvl 30 HShock, from just the Dreams.
The Dreamer's main source of damage is from melee attacks, not from the pulsing, ranged lightning damage. An slvl 30 HShock will give you around 1.6k or so melee lightning damage. With Conviction, that can add up to some very nice damage.
actually ive found the pulses do a good lot of damage on theyre own with conviction on your target. Id say the majority of kills I get in pvp is pulse kills even when I begin to chase them down while they running to town the conviction stays in range and the pulse does the rest.
thats on both the dreamadin and torchadin. having timed it on most builds I can charge around keeping them inside conviction range for no more than one minute and they die... that includes melee paladins, barbs, sorcs, sins, zonz, and necros...
the ONLY build ive seen not be really tore up with pulses is windy druids using cyclone armor.
Diabolico x64
11-03-2005, 13:26
It's kind of hard to believe that you tear up good, decently-built characters with pulses of 1-278 damage, even with Conviction. Even with 20 points into Resist Lightning, that's still under a thousand damage.
It's kind of hard to believe that you tear up good, decently-built characters with pulses of 1-278 damage, even with Conviction. Even with 20 points into Resist Lightning, that's still under a thousand damage.
actually its 1-1200 dmg with -150all res with conviction.. it can take out sorcs and other caster in as little as 2pulses. thats with maxed all res aura (forgottne name) and thats wut i do
Experience works better than theories, i can testify that pulses are indeed very effective both in pvp and pvm, they are extremely effective vs low resist chars such as bowazons.
Death_Frog
11-03-2005, 18:16
As some of you may or may not know... I have made a very good dreamer pally a while back... he owned everything, from melee to caster. The only consistant problems he had were smiters with stacked resists. Everything else he owned. He reached 4 fpa, had around 5k ar zeal(12k with demon limb enchant), and did over an estimated 8.5k damage zeal. He had 2200 life/10k def, and 56 resists(95 light res however) in hell.
This guy tore up everyone i faced. The pulses are the main killer for caster types, and melee die in 1-2 hits with zeal. I find that charge is a great skill to evade attacks while the pulses slowly or rapidly drain the opponents life.
Now i have made a Dreaming Dragon pally who uses 2x dream/dragon armor/HoJ PB. I made him using vengence but i dont think the damage added is big enough to outweigh zeal or charge, so i might remake him. Do not dis the auras ;)
Diabolico x64
11-03-2005, 18:27
I don't know where you people play, but there is a thing called "stacked resistances" here. Conviction's -150%res is easily countered. I don't know why anyone in their right mind would not use stacked resists against Conviction, if they had the wealth (4 PTopaz Monarch = 160%, more than enough), especially if the Conviction user is not a melee build/physical dmg.
Death_Frog
11-03-2005, 18:43
I don't know where you people play, but there is a thing called "stacked resistances" here. Conviction's -150%res is easily countered. I don't know why anyone in their right mind would not use stacked resists against Conviction, if they had the wealth (4 PTopaz Monarch = 160%, more than enough), especially if the Conviction user is not a melee build/physical dmg.
Well most people dont really have enough space or time to have 4 shields of each resists just to nullify each element. even with the shield they need another 75 resists to reach their max... but then a few charges can still take them out easily...
7.5k light damage against someone with 75 resists still does 469 damage... 1.2k light aura dmg agains someone with 75 resists still does 75 damage a pop, and with physical damage added, it is enough to still tear thru casters... melee who use res sheilds have to sacrifice gear to get resists... and that would just give ur pally the benefit.
while it may seem easy to just throw on a shield with 160 resists... no one really does that, making this build at a great advantage.
And if they are light damage char, then use light res aura to get 95 light res.
If u still dont see how this build can own, maybe i can show u if u are on USEast.
Diabolico x64
11-03-2005, 21:32
First of all, I got the impression that there would be very little to none physical contact at all with this build. I'm not debating the damage of the HShock when used with weapon attacks. I know well how powerful that can become. I'm debating the damage output of the pulses alone against a character with good/decent resists. As you said, it only does 75 damage per pulse with 75 resists.
Second, you don't need a shield for every element. Most experienced duelers keep at least a lightning resist shield in their stash. If you really want to feel safe, you'll get a cold resist one as well. Though I do admit that not many people would have a fire resist shield. And a poison resist shield is pretty useless, unless you stick 4 Guls into it. Even with all four shields, that's only 24 spaces in your stash, only half of the total, not counting your cube. Unless you have a full prebuff setup in there, I don't see how you can't make enough space for them. Also, absorb comes in pretty small items; the rising sun, dwarf star, wisp projector, to name a few.
Death_Frog
11-03-2005, 21:49
First of all, I got the impression that there would be very little to none physical contact at all with this build.
Well my build does use physical contact when necessary... so thats why this build is great. I usually just charge around casters to annoy them while aura hurts them until i see my chance to charge them for the kill.
Diabolico x64
11-03-2005, 22:06
Well my build does use physical contact when necessary... so thats why this build is great. I usually just charge around casters to annoy them while aura hurts them until i see my chance to charge them for the kill.
Yeah, well I wasn't talking about your build. I was talking about the one suggested in the very first post of this thread.
It's kind of hard to believe that you tear up good, decently-built characters with pulses of 1-278 damage, even with Conviction. Even with 20 points into Resist Lightning, that's still under a thousand damage.
why?
you are aware there is an aura called Conviction that lowers resists to -150 at lvl 25?
sorry but many people here HAVE seen me use both charicters (torchadin and dreamadin) to pulse kill, its been shown over and over and over even vs pallies using salvation...
Im sure if you really wanted to you could put on a stacked res shield... I kinda hope more people do, a 4 sock pally shield stacked res is gonna have much less blocking than a HOz increasing my chances for a good charge... ok that works..
even a sancuary shield would be cool to face.45+ 50-70 res.... hmm IMO thats a good investment for an all around res shield...
If your on West Id be deligted to show you both builds in action *sirsamdegrace1
DIEnamic
12-03-2005, 02:38
Yeah, well I wasn't talking about your build. I was talking about the one suggested in the very first post of this thread.
in response to my very first post, i was asking for ideas. since ive posted this thread, the pala ive had in mind seems to change after each post. after seeing SDG's torchadin, theres no doubt that this build is gonna work, which leaves us with the minor tweaks to perfect the torchadin/dreamer. i like the idea of using charge as a finisher over foh now most because of the major style points there. i dont see much difference between dreamer and torchadin aside from the lack of torchadins on west, the main differences i can see are how most people will be unprepared for fire pulses/damage in pvp (cmon who really keeps 2x dwarfs and rising sun in their stash?) and how it has much more constant damage than a 1-(insert insanely high number here) dreamer since your opponent will more than likely be prepared for lightning damage.
for those of you just jumping into this thread, definitely check this out too http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=319758
Diabolico x64
12-03-2005, 04:11
Im sure if you really wanted to you could put on a stacked res shield... I kinda hope more people do, a 4 sock pally shield stacked res is gonna have much less blocking than a HOz increasing my chances for a good charge... ok that works..
Notice I'm not saying ANYTHING about using charge or any other kind of skill or damage. I'm just having a hard time believing that aura pulse damage ALONE will kill opponents so quickly.
Holy Fire may work fine, since most people are not expecting fire damage, especially in the form of pulses. Holy Shock, on the other hand, may be countered a lot more easily, since people are prepared for lightning damage in PvP.
Unfortunately, I'm on East NL.
Notice I'm not saying ANYTHING about using charge or any other kind of skill or damage. I'm just having a hard time believing that aura pulse damage ALONE will kill opponents so quickly.
Holy Fire may work fine, since most people are not expecting fire damage, especially in the form of pulses. Holy Shock, on the other hand, may be countered a lot more easily, since people are prepared for lightning damage in PvP.
Unfortunately, I'm on East NL.
even with dual wisps the conviction and the greater range of pulse damage on holy shock does still kill effectivly... albeit more slowly than without absorb but it still works and is rather common. gotta remember the pulse damage from the 30 holy shock ranges drastically so sometimes u can do a lot or a little...
and with conviction dropping res 150 you end up doing MORE damage than displayed. the thing ive found with the dreamadin build is the absorb soaks say HALF your initial damage.... and say that pulse was a 500 hit. and gets absorbed down to 250.... now say the char has 75 resits which get dropped to -25 ( counting on pvp restrictions etc etc) that damage just gotincreased due to a negative resist and that one pulse just did a good 300 pnts of damage.
now with pulses going off about once every 5 seconds for just deductive reasoning ( but about 5 seconds between does sound pretty accurate to me) you gonna pulse them on an average five times taking into account range and chargeing around. WITH conviction on them... thats about an average say 1000 pnts damage in a minute...
IMO thats not bad for a minimal risk.
where the problems come into play for auradins is keeping within 13.5 range for convciton to work and a charicter class that HAS a skill that absorbs ele damage like cyclone armor on druids.. a druid with 2 dwarfstar and rizing sun ammy AND a high cyclone armor can make short work of my torchadin. on the good note though a basic charger just rid himself of his angelics and his AR sucks worse than mine so he actually increases my chances of getting a good charge on him. same with smiters...
For me, having a MUCH smaller chance vs one or two builds is well worth the price to totally smoke the rest ...
Death_Frog
12-03-2005, 06:47
i believe the timer is 3 seconds... as is with most auras. The game runs an aura check every 3 seconds to load the new aura or keep remaining one. And it is pretty easy to kill even a resist/sorber if u dodge them using charge.
My guy's aura can kill weak casters with just a dream helm and no conviction on :D
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