View Full Version : ~::WHIRLWIND GUIDE::~ V1.23 Beta.
rikstaker
06-03-2005, 09:33
Here (http://www.unc.edu/~jpurvis/whirl/) it is.All comments/suggestions/corrections from anyone are welcome & will be appreciated,so please dont hesitate. All those mentioned in the credits section played a huge part in the development of this guide & I cant thank them enough.
I apologize for the slight delay in releasing it. :rolleyes:
Rik
Instituting the 1-week stick policy :D
-Hal
Ash Housewares
06-03-2005, 11:13
the title system, while creative, makes it a bit cumbersome for quick reference
often if I consult a guide, I read it, and then later, midway through a char I need to look something up it's nice when it isn't too hard to find it
also you have two #5s and no #6 so theres a labeling error you can fix
what about life steal in 1.10 and how it changes strategy with leechproof monsters since you have no easy means of lifetapping them does one revert to a more strategic battle as mentioned on page 3?
anyways, I like long guides as long as they provide some quick reference stuff, like the check list on page 2, that was very nice (punctuation error 7 instead of &)
I like it so far, btw, been thinking of making a ww barb, maybe pvp on east ladder, interested in helpin me out maybe we could duel eachother some or I could test some weapons?
rikstaker
06-03-2005, 11:45
Thanx for the suggestions Ash,I would make some sort of summary version or short mini guide within it for quick reference,tables would help as well.Hyperlinks could have helped a lot. :D
Unleechables will give a problem life wise if you cant kill them quickly or if you have low resists & dr in which case one should play more cleverly with warcry usage like you always say for frenziers.But when one packs enough dmg to kill them before they do too much,there is no cause for worry & dtm helps kill them fast with ww.
Lots of punctuation errors still to fix,though Hal cleaned a lot of them.
Re gear try out:Sure alrighty!My barb project comes after my witchcyzon(gear almost complete) & tals sorc(pending).Though my 1337 Rik's pala is available to pull some ears. :D
*rikstaker Whats your id again?
Ash Housewares
06-03-2005, 11:52
couldn't remember, so I got on bnet *Ash_Housewares
I'm whispering sweet nothings to you right now
Here (http://www.unc.edu/~jpurvis/whirl/) it is.All comments/suggestions/corrections from anyone are welcome & will be appreciated,so please dont hesitate. All those mentioned in the credits section played a huge part in the development of this guide & I cant thank them enough.
I apologize for the slight delay in releasing it. :rolleyes:
Rik
GREAT GREAT GREAT guide rikstaker!
Love the pictures! Especially the one with the barb wielding an ebotd great poleaxe! Bad boy! :p :D
/Dec
jordy666
07-03-2005, 09:42
:clap: <-- make em work
mi lub teh guide!
esspecially the pictures :D
u should fix the ED%'s on ebotd ghost spear since this:
@ 400% ed: 135 -1160
@ 415% ed: 355 - 979
isnt right.
-jordy :rolleyes:
rikstaker
07-03-2005, 11:26
Thanx Dec & Jordy.Those 1337 pictures were provided by jordy. :D
Oops! the 415% ed is that of gpa,another mistake.sigh. :rolleyes:
Rik
Nice pictures jordy! Very imaginative as well! :D
/Dec
Mercurus
07-03-2005, 21:21
Nice guide.
Probally is the coolest guide i ever saw.
Has pictures, nice explications, keep it going on rikstaker. ;)
gratz with the guide m8 :)
& thx for mentioning me at least 3 times :D
ps : dont count on me to test other things since i just quit & spent the last hour sharing stuff (made thread in euro trading section if u wanna kno why)
so i posted this on another thread but rik said it might help if i moved it here.
I cant decide if i want to do axe mastery or polearms(poleaxe whatever) mastery. the guide shows for pvm botd great poleaxe is the "grand daddy" of ww barb weapons. what i am really curious about is what does this compare to, to say 2 botd zerker axes. as well, with that possibility i cant wield a shield if/when dueling or just need it the extra defense. if anyone knows a site to help me compare their dmgs and stuff, or if someone can just straight up inform me on which would be more dmging and "good" (i know its hard to rank things like that) id appreciate it. really just trying to figure out dmg comparison of 2 zerk ebotd axes vs. ebotd great poleaxe...i know the typical botd/beast combo for pvp, so im guessing this is more geared toward pvm questions right now.
rikstaker
08-03-2005, 08:35
so i posted this on another thread but rik said it might help if i moved it here.
Thats not the reason I told you to move it here,Infact I didnt tell you to move it here,I said you could have posted it here.Fewer threads save space & bandwith,besides more posts that get combined in one thread the better,as people looking for similar answers know where to look. :)
Anyway,I have answered your question in your thread,others will surely post their own views to help you. :)
Rik
MagicMoron
12-03-2005, 18:08
The one omission in weapons I see... or maybe you're adding it and I can't read... is a BOTD Warpike. I've heard that this compares to the Great Poleaxe. Anyone enlighten me?
The war pike was most likely omitted because it doesn't hit the last whirlwind breakpoint, making it a less effective weapon.
-Hal
rikstaker
14-03-2005, 11:08
The war pike was most likely omitted because it doesn't hit the last whirlwind breakpoint, making it a less effective weapon.
-Hal
Thats right!
@elixir:if you have read the ias/range sections under delivery you'll understand more clearly.Though botd warpike does more dmg per hit,being slower it gets beaten by gpa or ghost spear in terms of dmg over time since it doesnt make the last ww break which allots 2 extra hits per second.So while the warpike would hit just 4 times per second gpa/gs would hit 6 times per second,giving them the edge in dmg.Besides more hits means more cb triggers.In short for ww:hitting often is more important than hitting harder as the dmg adds up with frequency.
But that doent mean you'll own hell with a shaeled hwanin's bill. :D .Dmg must still be adequate.
edit:whoa! No flames yet? & I expected more suggestions etc.. :o
Rik
I'll just say...
****ing amazing guide man. I've wanted to make a WW barb for some time and this has explained a lot to me.. it is making me even more excited about playing him.
I keep hearing how WW barbs and subpar and people are encouraging me to go another way with the barbarian I will eventually make... but the character concept is just too compelling to me.
This has got me really thinking and I think that a WW barbarian can be a challenging build to play solo... Yet rewarding in the end after you have mastered the class.
I usually attract to classes like this in games and MMORPGs and I'm glad I have found a class which hopefully doesn't follow the same simple tactics for every monster.
Edit: Another (minor) mistake - the heading:
7. MANUAVERBILITY
Is an obvious mispelling :P I noticed you spelled it right everywhere else, so just pointing it out.
Edit: Another (minor) mistake - the heading:
7. MANUAVERBILITY
Is an obvious mispelling :P I noticed you spelled it right everywhere else, so just pointing it out.
Fixed.
-Hal
xpumafangx
17-03-2005, 01:31
You want flames I shoot fire crackers. GOOD JOB. CHECK YOUR FREAKEN EMAIL HOTMAIL ASAP!!!
Also i might go east as well I dont know I would like to get somthing to start out with I dont know. Lets talk about it.
rikstaker
17-03-2005, 07:43
You want flames I shoot fire crackers. GOOD JOB. CHECK YOUR FREAKEN EMAIL HOTMAIL ASAP!!!
Also i might go east as well I dont know I would like to get somthing to start out with I dont know. Lets talk about it.
Ouch sorry! I didnt check my hotmail inbox for quite a few days,Hey if you start on ladder,I can hook you up with some great stuff.Start out with a witchy zon,I have an extra set for her & start farming pits with 0% mf.
Rik
Fhr/fbr/fcr tables would be nice in miscelanous? section.
I`d also like to see DOD in ww strategy section - i see many complaining having difficulty vs wind druids, but my bvc barb despite he has only 8%pdr does very well vs them due to DOD - they usually have low def so i connect often enough to keep them in block/hit recovery.
Another pvp tactic i discovered on my own - here comes a big "?" as i thought same once only to find out it was written in a guide - is some degree lag proof and can be used against trappers that run arround fast-cornering, MB-ing and dodging wws in their trapped area or vs sorcs that tele arround close to u. U basicaly ww on their name to get whirllocked than press right mouse on ground, keep it pressed and pointing the cursor in their direction, after them.
What I did miss alittle was what really happens when you're going dual wield. Since most people don't exacly know what happens then. So alittle explanation about that would be nice in a guide such as this aswell.
rikstaker
28-03-2005, 16:50
Hi there taz.Sure I'll add the tables.Re DOD;I have provided info on short triangular whirling,but didnt lable it as DOD,I'll correct that asap.
@Lunatic: Dualwielding info will come under the yet to be added dualwielding section.
Rik
oscarmk1
31-03-2005, 01:21
Hello,
I am very sure than since 1.10 patch, theres a formula to calculate your chance of double dmg that includes both critical and deadly strike, it no longer checks one and then the other. I cant remember formula but i remember there is one.
Bullet-Tooth Tony
01-06-2005, 10:02
rikstaker,
here's a quote from your guide:
NOTE;1 second =24 frames-so 4 frames=1/6th of a second.
I've always been thinking Diablo II runs at 25 frames per second, not 24. Are you sure you're correct?
rikstaker
01-06-2005, 10:40
Hello,
I am very sure than since 1.10 patch, theres a formula to calculate your chance of double dmg that includes both critical and deadly strike, it no longer checks one and then the other. I cant remember formula but i remember there is one.
Its here & its in the guide as well: :p .The game checks critical first,if failed deadly is checked without factoring cs%-the formual simply recognizes that & calculates net chance to deal either.
=CS + (DS/100)*(100-CS)
@Bullet-Well D2 runs at 24 frames-thaths the frame of reference all attack speeds are based on.I am not aware if there was a change.
Rik
25 frames per second in D2.
rikstaker
01-06-2005, 12:08
25 frames per second in D2.
wooo! :p
Another correction to make,thanx Bullet & RTB.
Rik
Bullet-Tooth Tony
02-06-2005, 08:50
Another question about check radius/attack radius.
How and when does the game choose a specific target to attack if there are multiple potential targets in check/attack radius?
"How" means if it is random or closest or maybe somehow else.
"When" means if it is chosen after first check (check radius), or after second (attack radius).
This is why I worry about it:
You've wrote that first game checks for targets in 5-tile range, then does it for weapon range that can be lower than 5. And does it every 4th frame (for fastest attack).
I wonder if it is possible that the game chooses to attack a target that is in check radius, but outside weapon radius, while there are more targets in weapon range, so this check-frame is effectively wasted.
Example:
Weapon range=3; 3 targets in check radius; targets #1 and #2 are outside weapon range; target #3 is within weapon range. Can the game choose to attack targets #1 and #2 and do not touch them because of weapon range check failure, while it could attack target #3 with no problems?
rikstaker
02-06-2005, 10:35
Another question about check radius/attack radius.
How and when does the game choose a specific target to attack if there are multiple potential targets in check/attack radius?
"How" means if it is random or closest or maybe somehow else.
"When" means if it is chosen after first check (check radius), or after second (attack radius).
The game only checks for the presence of a target in the five tile check radius,how many & how far does not concern yet.So no,the target is not chosen here.
"When" means if it is chosen after first check (check radius), or after second (attack radius).
This is why I worry about it:
You've wrote that first game checks for targets in 5-tile range, then does it for weapon range that can be lower than 5. And does it every 4th frame (for fastest attack).
I wonder if it is possible that the game chooses to attack a target that is in check radius, but outside weapon radius, while there are more targets in weapon range, so this check-frame is effectively wasted.
Example:
Weapon range=3; 3 targets in check radius; targets #1 and #2 are outside weapon range; target #3 is within weapon range. Can the game choose to attack targets #1 and #2 and do not touch them because of weapon range check failure, while it could attack target #3 with no problems?
Continuing from above,after a target(s) has been detected in the five tile radius,it proceeds to attack the target in range-if no target in range,attack is failed.
1.If there are two targets in range-I am not sure if it attacks a random one or the one closest-But I am sure,that if a target(s) is in range it wont try & attack one that is out of range & hence fail.Like I said-check radius simply detects presence of target & attack selects the one in range & proceeds to attack it.
2.If you are dualwielding-two targets are in range,both get attacked or a single target gets attacked twice(frame 8 & above).
Rik
really good guide - can't wait for the next instalment.
1.If there are two targets in range-I am not sure if it attacks a random one or the one closest-But I am sure,that if a target(s) is in range it wont try & attack one that is out of range & hence fail.Like I said-check radius simply detects presence of target & attack selects the one in range & proceeds to attack it.
(All out of memory, so believe what you want)
Random target within the WW radius, if the target is out of weapon range you'll miss. I remember that in the case of Thunderstorm random was defined as attack the monster that spawned first until death, and then onto the next, but that was 1.09.
2.If you are dualwielding-two targets are in range,both get attacked or a single target gets attacked twice(frame 8 & above).
As long as two or more targets are in WW range, a single target won't ever be hit by both weapons in the same frame.
rikstaker
02-06-2005, 16:12
As long as two or more targets are in WW range, a single target won't ever be hit by both weapons in the same frame.
Should have been more clear :bonk: I meant if a single target is in range,both weapons hit after from frame 8 onwards.
Rik
jordy666
02-06-2005, 16:37
when are u gonna release ur zerker guide or update teh guide
-jordy :king:
rikstaker
02-06-2005, 17:28
when are u gonna release ur zerker guide or update teh guide
-jordy :king:
:o
I am caught up with a lot of things,exams mainly & work.But I will eventually. :p
Rik
IN_FLAMES
02-06-2005, 20:43
Omg, whoever came up with the Demon Limb prebuffing is a freaking genius.
This is one of the best guides I have ever read, even though it is not fully complete.
Much kudos! :thumbsup:
Just reading through the guide...
ED% per point: 1% for all weapons except warhammer, maul & great maul & their exceptional & elite versions which get 1.1%ed.
A funny quirk is that the extra 0.1- 0.9% is truncated away, so only per 10 str does one gain a 1% ed bonus when using hammers.
Reduces the defense of the target* that is being checked to 0. Therefore, effectively giving you 95% chance to hit (max).However, not all targets* are awarded that treatment.
*Targets: Applies only to normal monsters. So uniques, champions, bosses & other players are still at their full defense.
When wearing an item with ITD you certainly don't always have a 95% chance to hit. Also, with ITD your AR does not matter anymore except for (act) bosses. Champions and (Super)uniques get their defense set to 0 as well. Slight bug there.
Nice guide.
Darknicrofia
03-06-2005, 05:49
Omg, whoever came up with the Demon Limb prebuffing is a freaking genius.
This is one of the best guides I have ever read, even though it is not fully complete.
Much kudos! :thumbsup:
thats been around for a long time now.....considered bm in priv duels....dont know why, everyone does it....*cough*...palapk nation on east nl are all hypocrites.....*cough*
Bullet-Tooth Tony
03-06-2005, 10:37
Thanks, rikstaker, now it's all clear.
oneBlast
03-06-2005, 20:19
Ok,
I assume you don't play Ladder Rik, but REALLY would like to know what weapon to use on my new barb:
Grief
Ebotd zerker
I think that Grief would be better, as it has crazy average dmg, and differs from ebotd with the 30stats bonus basicaly.
Can anyone advise?
Cheers,
Marius
rikstaker
03-06-2005, 20:25
Ok,
I assume you don't play Ladder Rik, but REALLY would like to know what weapon to use on my new barb:
Grief
Ebotd zerker
I think that Grief would be better, as it has crazy average dmg, and differs from ebotd with the 30stats bonus basicaly.
Can anyone advise?
Cheers,
Marius
I play ladder only. :p .I guess you missed the coment by Hal,the guide is only partially complete,new r/ws have delayed the rest version.
Re your questions-Yes grief is better than botd.Check my FYI-BVB weapon analysis thread under other useful info in the guide thread.
Rik
Both weapons need to hit -34 when dual wielding for max hit checks right?
I always thought so, but people on the assassin forum are saying that only primary weapons speed matters when dual wielding. I assume it works the same for assassins as it does for barbs (besides claw lwwbp being -13).
oneBlast
03-06-2005, 22:20
I play ladder only. :p .I guess you missed the coment by Hal,the guide is only partially complete,new r/ws have delayed the rest version.
Re your questions-Yes grief is better than botd.Check my FYI-BVB weapon analysis thread under other useful info in the guide thread.
Rik
oki :)
I think i've seen coment somewhere in your guide:
"...the new RW'a will be added when the ladder ends..." or something like that.
That's why i thought that you play NL
Marius
rikstaker
04-06-2005, 11:38
Both weapons need to hit -34 when dual wielding for max hit checks right?
I always thought so, but people on the assassin forum are saying that only primary weapons speed matters when dual wielding. I assume it works the same for assassins as it does for barbs (besides claw lwwbp being -13).
yes both weapons need to be lwbp for max hit checks,however you get 3 in the first 8 frames regardless of wias.
I would like to go through some links from the assn forums which state that & a confirmation from RTB on the info we are running would be nice as well.
Rik
No you need both too hit ww bps in order to get max hits even for an assasin.
All i'd like to know is the ias needed on a 0 speed claw to get 2 hits per whirl.
Im guessing its less than 34...
No you need both too hit ww bps in order to get max hits even for an assasin.
All i'd like to know is the ias needed on a 0 speed claw to get 2 hits per whirl.
Im guessing its less than 34...
I hope you meant 2 hits per 4 frames or you won't be needing IAS on that claw. :teeth:
It needs a total of 13% IAS to reach the last breakpoint.
morotsjos
05-06-2005, 10:38
I hope you meant 2 hits per 4 frames or you won't be needing IAS on that claw. :teeth:
It needs a total of 13% IAS to reach the last breakpoint.
How come assasins have different bps? oO
Also, BOTH claws must meet the -13 bp then right? Sry that I didn't get it...
How come assasins have different bps? oO
Because Assassins are not Barbarians, and they can only use claws for WW.
Also, BOTH claws must meet the -13 bp then right? Sry that I didn't get it...
Correct.
rikstaker
05-06-2005, 13:46
Why do people on assn forum keep spreading such things? Eventhough I am sure about the info we have from tests & from places like keep & LL I begin to get doubts.
Zang,you got the link,I would like to bust in & flame them,anyone other barb care for some adventure? :teeth:
Rik
Here's the link. It's not the topic of the post, but it gets brought up around page 2.
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=351638
Why do people on assn forum keep spreading such things? Eventhough I am sure about the info we have from tests & from places like keep & LL I begin to get doubts.
Zang,you got the link,I would like to bust in & flame them,anyone other barb care for some adventure?
Ya know, your friendly neighbor assassins only spread the info we get. Sometimes the wierdest info gets grandfathered into some rather important sources. This is one of those times. As I have no (current) way of testing this, and I found contradicting indications in a very authoritative attack speed guide (more accurate than the German calc), it was a difficult decision to brush off that info. I mentioned that it was something I would be looking into, not something to take as gospel truth. I don't know how that got in there, and I'm not sure why we didn't catch it before. The barbarian forum has shown its great quality with correcting our whirlwind misconceptions. Assassins deal with that level of complication on the majority of our skills (including attack speeds), so a few minor nits here and there can be expected. Fortunately, our big neighbors have been living with Whirlwind for a few more patches than we have. :p The learning curve is a bit steep, as you even indicate in your guide.
Speaking of your guide, here are my humble comments (I did a full glance-through, with spot reading):
1.) The organization is good, but it would be nice if there were some working links to get from one place to another. As it stands, your guide is a (good) long read without any good jump from one place to another.
2.) Very minor nit: this smiley link is dead: http://www.unc.edu/~jpurvis/My%20Documents/My%20Received%20Files/uhhuh.gif
3.) Although not what I'm used to, the color scheme works fairly nicely. It has a militant feel to it, and seems to work with most of the tables you have imported from other sites.
4.) I like the use of pictures. They provide some nice breaks in some material that could be dry otherwise. This picture was my favorite:
http://www.unc.edu/%7Ejpurvis/whirl/guide%20pics/pvm%202h%20pics/swords%20pwn.gif
5.) Another really minor nit: "Dualiwled" isn't much of a word. :lol: It's in the Credits section by Taz.
6.) Props on including a good intro and credits. I wish more guides would do this.
7.) Random comment - I am guessing that I run on a different resolution than you do. Mine is 1280 x 1024, and some things (especially the skill tables) look a bit wierd that way. You may want to suggest a recommended viewing size for the convenience of your readers. Whatever you use to look at it is probably the best, naturally. ;)
8.) What's with typing without spaces when there is punctuation,I mean,really,does it help that much?The lack of spaces between sentences is the worst for me.
nice guide !:)
but maybe u can change the font to verdana, cus it just looks better ;)
and on the last page the window title sais " Untitled Document " perhaps u want to change that aswell ;)
rik (and others) i noticed in a few other threads that you reccomend Fort over Coh for ww, and also that if can be helpful to make it in a med or heavy armor. Would you also say that that is true for PvM? I tend to think that the faster r/w would be useful getting across the maps.
I guess the over all open question is what "fortitude" armor do you barb PvM users reccomend for endgame ww barbs?
For clarification I plan on using a polearm weapon and high strength level to increase damage, so any armor is considerable. Would a heave armor with gores compare to med with goblin toes?
Really good guide :thumbsup:
Working on one of these WW Barbs in SP at the moment. Recently found the sword Swordguard .
+170-180% Enhanced Damage
+5 Defense per Clvl
+100 Defense vs. Missiles
+200 Defense vs. Melee
20% Faster Hit Recovery
20% Increased Chance of Blocking
All Resistances +10-20
Requirements -50%
30% Damage Taken Goes to Mana
How viable do you think this is when upgraded? When dual wielding them or with a sword, they give nice bonuses to defense and increased blocking (when wielding a shield too). Seeing as I play SP, I don't really have access to EBotd etc so will this get me through hell when upgraded and besides that, do a great job at it? I am not used to Barbs so I ask therefor.
Thanks.
rikstaker
16-06-2005, 16:53
Really good guide :thumbsup:
Working on one of these WW Barbs in SP at the moment. Recently found the sword Swordguard .
+170-180% Enhanced Damage
+5 Defense per Clvl
+100 Defense vs. Missiles
+200 Defense vs. Melee
20% Faster Hit Recovery
20% Increased Chance of Blocking
All Resistances +10-20
Requirements -50%
30% Damage Taken Goes to Mana
How viable do you think this is when upgraded? When dual wielding them or with a sword, they give nice bonuses to defense and increased blocking (when wielding a shield too). Seeing as I play SP, I don't really have access to EBotd etc so will this get me through hell when upgraded and besides that, do a great job at it? I am not used to Barbs so I ask therefor.
Thanks.
thanx.
That weapon isnt bad,but just not suited for ww,since it has no ias & cant reach the last ww break,which makes it ineffective. :(
In general ww barbs aren't very efficient with live of the land gear,however that doesnt mean they cant live without botd,other good options for you would be:
mid game:
Blood letter
Crainte Vomir(espandon)-can take you through nm-reaches lwbp,does ok damage-would be a tad difficult in hell even if upgraded.
For hell you should try & get an um rune to craft crecent moon legend sword-that can get you through the game with some difficulties in the end,but manageable.If you have played long enough & use Atma you can make a kingslayer highland blade,a really solid weapon with crushingblow.
I dont play SP,so thats about as much advice I can offer you,people from SPF can help more. :o
@gorey:
fort is better than coh,hand down.The dmg boost is too good to pass on,plus the defense can be insane with ctc chilling armor.
frw is something of preference,if you run areas like pits,place a point in increase speed & use gores for faster runs.
heavy armor with gores would do well too.
Rik
Ok,thanks! :)
The Kingslayer seems interesting indeed. Will be sure to try to get my hands on a Mal rune since I already got an Gul.
Crescent Moon is too intersting, but if I remember correct the ctc doesn't work with WW right?
rikstaker
17-06-2005, 02:42
Ok,thanks! :)
The Kingslayer seems interesting indeed. Will be sure to try to get my hands on a Mal rune since I already got an Gul.
Crescent Moon is too intersting, but if I remember correct the ctc doesn't work with WW right?
Go ahead with kingslayer.ctc doesnt work with ww,but its a nice cheap ww weapon with itd.
Rik
Ecca Ecca
31-01-2006, 14:39
Thank god, I though Gmouras was still the latest O_O
It is good to be back.
PsychoNight
31-01-2006, 15:37
is this guide gona be finished ?/when is it gona be finished
cause it is so damn nice...
wangjabyung
01-02-2006, 04:44
DAMN!
I just read this guide tonite, didnt even know it existed. This is an awesome guide, full of detail. Luckily i'm in the middle of building a whirlwinder.
I just have one question: I got a tuner ww barb going and thinking of making a sup sacred fort. Ya think this will be nice or shall I go with the duress runeword?. This is for pvm and will be using the ebotd gpa. The only cb I will have will be coming from the the gores.
I would not expect the guide to be finished any time soon, if at all, as Rik is on indefinite hiatus from the forums.
-Hal
rikstaker
04-02-2006, 00:16
rawr....:thumbsup:
I came back to my family again, working in a bank (ICICI) in Home finance dept. :cool: Took a while to re-adjust to gulf life,hectic work sched...yawn......
Rik
hey about Pvm barb...u say that it is good to be slow attack on whirl in PvM, so is death RW good for ww pvm barb cause death has no ias...btw death has CB and DS based on lvl.... :) nice guide and pics are godly :)
hey about Pvm barb...u say that it is good to be slow attack on whirl in PvM, so is death RW good for ww pvm barb cause death has no ias...btw death has CB and DS based on lvl.... :) nice guide and pics are godly :)
That's not what he meant. He meant the moving speed of WW, not the ias breakpoints. Slow moving speed+last ias breakpoint=lost of hits in a long whirl :smiley:
mainaman
04-05-2006, 23:17
hey about Pvm barb...u say that it is good to be slow attack on whirl in PvM, so is death RW good for ww pvm barb cause death has no ias...btw death has CB and DS based on lvl.... :) nice guide and pics are godly :)
death is decent offhand weapon for pvm , but you need fast main hand weapon such as botd or oath.
i think best combo is 2 botd zerks
So I'm trying to make an WW barb, and I'm not sure witch mastery to max. I can't decide between the sword mastery and the axe mastery. I'm playing ladder, untwinked, and mostly PvM. And should I use a shield or not, 'cause somewhere I read that a shield is only usefull for pvp, so is it better for PvM not to use a shield (so i dont have to put points in dex, and dont have to get an expensive shield). And if so, should I dual wield or use a 2 handed weapon?
I'd really like some advice in this matter, 'cause I can't find this information clearly explained in a guide.
Thanks,
Wombat
hydrahydra
13-09-2006, 22:30
title says it all :P
and what gears etc.
title says it all :P
and what gears etc.
The best merc is the act 2 nightmare offence merc (with the might aura), and Reapers Toll as a weapon. The rest I can't remember, so you should check the guide(s), it's explained perfectly in there.
I'm assuming we're talking about a WW barb here..
As mentioned, Act 2 Nightmare Offensive merc.
Weapon would be Doom Cryptic Axe or Reaper's Toll
Helm is Ral'd Andy's Visage
Armor is whatever you'd like.
-Hal
When are the Whirwind-guide to barbarian comming?
:afro:
When are the Whirwind-guide to barbarian comming?
:afro:
Press the orange-colored word "Here" in the very first post.
Actually, I get a time-out error whenever I try that Ce Olba. Does it work for everyone else ok or is it broken?
ToThePoint
11-11-2006, 20:41
works here
:wave:
works here
:wave:
I also get the timed out error or Page Could Not Be loaded with IE and Firefox
harpoeth
08-12-2006, 08:04
works for me too...
This is my current setup:
Fort
EBOTD GPA
Gores
Dracs
Arreats
2x Bul Kathos and or Dual Leach Rings
Vendurgo
But I was wondering why go Highlords? Something like MetalGrid would seem way more practical. Also what would be better Mastery GC or Combat GC combined with Max/AR/Life GCs?
This is my current setup:
Fort
EBOTD GPA
Gores
SteelRends
Arreats
2x Carrion Rings
Vendurgo
But I was wondering why go Highlords? Something like MetalGrid would seem way more practical. Also what would be better Mastery GC or Combat GC combined with Max/AR/Life GCs?
Fixed. Lastly, do you think having a RavenFrost is mandatory?
This is my current setup:
Fort
EBOTD GPA
Gores
Steelrends
Arreats
2x Bul Kathos and or Dual Leach Rings
Vendurgo
Firstly, swap Rends for LoH, Dracul's or CB gloves.
Swap Bul Katho's for something better, +skills do no good for barbarians.
But I was wondering why go Highlords? Something like MetalGrid would seem way more practical. Also what would be better Mastery GC or Combat GC combined with Max/AR/Life GCs?
Highlord's adds Deadly Strike, which can nearly double your damage.
Using either Mastery or Combat GCs is foolish, they add very little damage. Use a few max/ar/life GCs and rest 20 life small charms with modifiers.
Firstly, swap Rends for LoH, Dracul's or CB gloves.
Swap Bul Katho's for something better, +skills do no good for barbarians.
Highlord's adds Deadly Strike, which can nearly double your damage.
Using either Mastery or Combat GCs is foolish, they add very little damage. Use a few max/ar/life GCs and rest 20 life small charms with modifiers.
LoH? I'm sorry Im not familair with that. Some sort of crafted or rare item?
Edit
Nevermind, forgot about Disciple set. IAS and DTD really worth it?
LoH? I'm sorry Im not familair with that. Some sort of crafted or rare item?
Edit
Nevermind, forgot about Disciple set. IAS and DTD really worth it?
The IAS means nothing to Whirlwind as it doesn't affect it. The DTD is very effective, considering that, for one, all boss monsters are demons, for another, it's equal to having a fortitude versus a huge partion of the enemies of the game.
The only other worthwhile gloves would be crafted ones with 10% CB, resistances and stats or Dracul's. The CB on Steelrends is just not worth it comparing to the STR requirement. And no, barbarians are not supposed to have high STR unless they are Titans.
The IAS means nothing to Whirlwind as it doesn't affect it. The DTD is very effective, considering that, for one, all boss monsters are demons, for another, it's equal to having a fortitude versus a huge partion of the enemies of the game.
The only other worthwhile gloves would be crafted ones with 10% CB, resistances and stats or Dracul's. The CB on Steelrends is just not worth it comparing to the STR requirement. And no, barbarians are not supposed to have high STR unless they are Titans.
Titan is what I'm shootin for :D, was planning on only having near 2.5 after BO, Charms, ect.
is this build viable for 1.11 as it is standing?
is this build viable for 1.11 as it is standing?
Well of course. The only changes 1.11 brought to barbarians was introduction of Grief and Fortitude, Fortitude being the useful one for PvM reasons.
Just like to say that I have my build up to level 85 now and it is ripping up Hell like no tomorrow :D
Max PoleArm
Max Shout
Max BO
Max WW
Rest into IronSkin
Str: Above 450
Dex: Base
Vit: Around 250 (Brings me to 2.5 with BO and Charms)
Energy: Base
Setup:
Ithed Arreats
EBOTD GPA
Sacred Armor Fort
Vendurgo
Dracs
Carrion
Raven
Gores
Highlords
Dual Warcry Spears on Switch
I'm not quite sure if I like the damage to mana though, it get's me killed in some of instances (To be honest with you it's the only thing that has killed me). I have tons of Life Leach, so when I get low on HP it is very possible for me to easily bring myself back up again with WW. However when I an hit loosing all my mana due to Damage to Mana I can't WW, therefore I can't leach so I die. Of course I can use pots as such, but its just tedious. I took off all my DTM items and was way more comfortable, who knows I'll keep playing around with it and see if it gets any better.
Barrynor
13-07-2007, 10:35
Alas, for misunderstanding.
Damage to mana does the following: If you take 100 damage, and have 10% damage to mana, you get 10 mana points (and still take 100 damage). My guess is that you ran into some ManaBurn monsters, which take away your mana as well as your life. So I think you either ran into different monsters, or are suffering from psychological effects that make it seem you play better without DTM. ;)
Apart from that, from a HC point of view, relying on one skill is madness for a Barbarian, unless its Berserk, in which case you're mad to beign with ;)
This is one of the better WW barb guides I found on this forum, but as a legit player I have some difficulties:
-no way I'll ever have the runes for BOTD
-no way I'll ever have the runes for CoH/Fort
-I might get enough wealth or MF for an Arreats face.
My biggest surprise is that u didn't mention Enigma, which in many guides is THE armor without which any barbarian will have difficulties in hell. But the armors u mention are out of my reach... :(
Is there any alternative to the body armor section or should I just drop the WW barb idea?
The other difficulty I have is the weapon. As I said BOTD is out of the question, and what I have on my mules is:
-Bonehew
-IK maul
-Windhammer
-Arriocs Needle
I was surprised the mace class was not mentioned... I thought IK set was pretty good for WW barbs. I am really confused... the two mauls pack a great deal of CB, and can both reach lwbp, and have no dex requirement. I wonder why there are not good for WW.
Secondly, I found a Stormshield so I was thinking about using it in WW (since I want to use the SS + String of ears - just because I have them), but again what wep/mastery?
Is a lighsabre and Duress/Gores viable?
I really need some other advice except BOTD!
shinningman
10-06-2008, 12:18
this guide is so amazing... it answered like 9/10 of my questions on every topic
the link is down.. can post the guide somewhere else??
MoonUnit
01-07-2009, 21:08
the link is down.. can post the guide somewhere else??
It is? It's from 2005, and it's still active.
WNxZerker
02-07-2009, 16:47
Nice guide
it's convinced me to start a barb, is there a harder hitting weapon for the poor ww barb other than the bonehew? I don't want to make an IK barb, been there done that, now I want to make a high damage ww barb.
Define poor. Eth Oath in a -10 WSM weapon could be a possibility.
WNxZerker
02-07-2009, 22:49
I've decided to stop being a cheapskate and make an eBotd GPA, I have the 6soc eth GPA ( if only it was 15% ed :P) and I have 2 hrs left after my smiter and Hdin, so my last character for this ladder will be a WW Vita barb with an awesome weapon and junk rest of gear :P
I'm sure I'll trade for better before the season is over, but for a while he will look silly :P
alphawolfjeff
16-07-2009, 08:46
outstanding, can't wait for 1.13 to go from scratch
What are the best weapons for dual wielding PvM WW Barb (excluding BoTD - since I don't deal with dupes and don't think I'll find a zod in the near future :)).
I'm thinking Beast Zerker Axe + Grief Zerker Axe would be ample damage and range 3 (I can also share the Beast Zerker with my necro :)).
Does anyone have other suggestions on dual wielding WW barbs? I note the guide only covers the 2 handed weapons at the moment.
Thanks.
CCCenturion
20-07-2009, 18:34
What are the best weapons for dual wielding PvM WW Barb (excluding BoTD - since I don't deal with dupes and don't think I'll find a zod in the near future :)).
I'm thinking Beast Zerker Axe + Grief Zerker Axe would be ample damage and range 3 (I can also share the Beast Zerker with my necro :)).
:scratchhead:
I don't really know what you mean by that. The Vex you would need for a BotD would be just as easy to get as a Ber or a Lo for Beast or Grief, and just as likely to be duped; the Mals you would need would be harder to buy than the Zods, and only half as likely to be duped. Do you really have a self-found Ber, Lo, and two Mals lying around? If so, by all means go with Beast and Grief. But if you plan to trade for your runes, then the "I don't deal with dupes" argument would rule out Beast and Grief just as much as it would rule out BOTD.
All in all, I'd say you might be able to kill faster with the Beast/Grief setup (but I'm not so sure about that), thanks to the CB and OW mods helping out with bosses. On the other hand, a dual BOTD setup (or BOTD + something else) you'll find survival to be much, much easier, thanks to massive dual leech and +60 to all attributes.
Botd has a 'zod' rune requirement. I play single player with Forum Accepted Mods (i.e. Go Mule), and trade with legit traders via the SP Trade forum.
Now, I think it's safe to say that it's severely unlikely I will find or be able to trade to get a zod. However, I do already have Mal and Um from HF quests, so, all I really need is the Ber and Lo to make Beast and Grief respectively. Right now I can cube up to Ohm with a Gul or 2 left over. So, I'm nearly at Lo, and, after I get that I'll likely LK run like crazy in the hopes of scoring a Ber.
I don't think I'll have survival issues without BoTD. My barb can baal run easily enough now at level 85 with 250 MF and no RW weapons. It'll just be a matter of whether to use Mara's or Highlords depending on the situation to compensate for lost res.
Last time I checked, Greif is a Ladder only runeword that can only be made on the realms.
MoonUnit
21-07-2009, 04:52
Last time I checked, Greif is a Ladder only runeword that can only be made on the realms.
A Mod can add it to SP.
A Mod can add it to SP.
Correct. I'll only mod when I absolutely have to, so unless 1.13 just allows all RW's on Single Player (and it should since we can get all the ladder uniques), then I'll have to install this mod when it comes to making Grief.
If you have to mod the game to make a runeword that isn't even supposed to exist in SP (which I already know you can do), then why not just get whatever else you want (runes)? I don't see alot of difference there.
Is there any reason why Highlord's Wrath seems to be the most commonly adviced Amulet to use for WW barbs? It would appear to me that Metalgrid, Mara's or a rare amulet with +2 skills and leech would be better choices.
DECOYBOY
25-07-2009, 22:40
2 words: deadly strike.
I agree. There is no other ammy that offers more damage. Grid is a nice ammy, but you can easily cover your res and AR from other sources. Same kind of reasoning for Gore Riders as the primary boot choice: Damage.
Next to that, Angelics shine for AR, mainly PvP. +Skill items are better for classes that require stacks to improve damage.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.