using dream pally vs. sorc

[Rick-Nasty]

im thinking of make a char using the new runes words either dream for the HS or dragon for the HF, but which build gets the most damage output?? sorc with their mastery or pally with synergies?

[Lazy_BerZerker]

im thinking of make a char using the new runes words either dream for the HS or dragon for the HF, but which build gets the most damage output?? sorc with their mastery or pally with synergies?

Sorc! No doubt I have once calculated me to a 200k dmg. from pure lightning :P though I think I overpowered it a bit with some non existing items ;) but it is definately the most dmg. though even if you had 300k dmg. you would be harmless vs a 40% absorb 95% max light res (with + light res making him immune to conviction, ans such) charachter :-\

[helvete]

The day you get 200k damage from Dream holy shock bolts you know something's wrong...

[Thrugg]

"Non existing items" aside, the sorc's mastery will still outclass the pally's synergies. It's not a walkover, but they do have the advantage.

The pulse damage is pretty equal for either (probably favours Paladin if anything), but the damage you get on striking makes the difference. The Sorc's masteries are (still) bugged so that they apply twice - once when it adds the elemental damage to the weapon, then again when you hit something with that damage. The double application tops anything the Pal synergies can produce.

[helvete]

About how much fire damage would a sorc with slvl 44 Holy Fire (from item auras), maxed warmth and say slvl 30 fire mastery and slvl 36 enchant (prebuffed with Leaf or something) actually do? Could that be the melee sorc from hell?

I mean... 46 is pertty much for Holy Fire, and with Fire Mastery at a good level PLUS the enchant (that could be pre-buffed a LOT higher) wouldn't it be crazy? Playing that sort of enchantress together with a Poison Necromancer (lower resist, lots of minions to enchant, poison to help out) could actually be fun, eh?

[Thrugg]

It's an interesting idea, but unfortunately HF just doesn't scale up anywhere near as high as a high level HS, even exploiting the multiple worn items thing. And of course you could wear two Dreams also.

Slvl 44 Holy Fire adds 253-307 damage to your weapon, while slvl 30 Holy Shock adds 1-1536. FM adds much less bonus than LM, and when the bonus is doubly applied it really shows. Even synergised, Enchant doesn't make an appreciable difference.

Your Fire setup will get your weapon damage up towards 10K. The lightning setup is up nearer 100K.

[helvete]

Ouch!! 100k holy shock!! ES shocksorc :D

[Lazy_BerZerker]

The day you get 200k damage from Dream holy shock bolts you know something's wrong...

Ouch!! 100k holy shock!! ES shocksorc :D

Now it is the day where something is wrong? ;)

[Uzziah]

With legit Items I calculate just over 72K from holy shock on a sorcs with 2 dreams, thats not using facets which would only add what 30% 1668 to the total.

Thrugg I have slvl 30 holy shock dealing 1-1668; I think you were using slvl 29.

By the way the sorceress and paladin both hit 10K damage with ranged weapons using the dream combo. They would have to be thrown weapons but still 10K on a thrown weapon with pierce would be plenty for me.

[Lazy_BerZerker]

when I calced it to be about 150k I tried with the best possible legit items within my calc's even though I don't have those items.
Weapon: Fathom = 40% LD 3+ sorc skills with perfect light facet = 45% LD
Amulet: 3+ lightning skills + atributes
Helm: Dream or Griffon with perf light facet (Haevn't tried to calc with griffon) +15 to HS or 20% LD + 1 sorc skill
Armor: perfect lightning Ormus with perf light facet 3+ energy shiel (So the lvl 40 ES can be reach, though I'm not going to try to achieve that right now since I'm only watching the damage ;)) + 20% LD
Shield: Dream lvl 15 HS
Gloves: Frostburns (for the ES sorc)
Rings: Sojs 2+ skill
Belt: Arach 1+ skill
Boots: Silkweave (Yet again for ES)
10+ light skills GC
1+ skills anni
29 * (1-72 light dam. SC) = 29-2088 lightning damage

That was the "Über" gear I used in my calculations, and I think I got something about 150K not sure anymore though :P

[Thrugg]

Uzz, I actually have no reference for skill levels above 20, I just extrapolated from the pattern up to 20. I know that some skills start to improve faster above 20, but don't know how much. A (legal) link appreciated.

Zerker, you certainly need to use a Dream helm for these stellar numbers. Facets and other -res items are just decoration, the real power comes from the aura and the doubly-applied LM. And that is all about +skills. I also doubt you can fit 29 lightning charms in your inventory with 10 skillers :) Charm damage will not receive the double multiplication by LM anyway.
The best equipment is whatever maxes +lightning skills while wearing 2 Dreams.

Oh, and your merc wants an Infinity polearm :)

[Lazy_BerZerker]

Uzz, I actually have no reference for skill levels above 20, I just extrapolated from the pattern up to 20. I know that some skills start to improve faster above 20, but don't know how much. A (legal) link appreciated.

Zerker, you certainly need to use a Dream helm for these stellar numbers. Facets and other -res items are just decoration, the real power comes from the aura and the doubly-applied LM. And that is all about +skills. I also doubt you can fit 29 lightning charms in your inventory with 10 skillers :) Charm damage will not receive the double multiplication by LM anyway.
The best equipment is whatever maxes +lightning skills while wearing 2 Dreams.

Oh, and your merc wants an Infinity polearm :)

I guess chippy dips is a legal HP :P http://www.d2items.com/skills.php
well I miscalculated and took a gc to be a sc :S my mistake sorry :P there can of course only be 9 LD sc, 1 anni, and 10 Light skillers GC :) = 40 spacepoint or what it is called :P
The thing I was most wondering about was what had the most damage an inventory filled with +1-72 LD sc or the + skillers, but since the + skillers adds a kind of "double" LM then it must be the skillers.
For the record :)
1 dream = 1-648 LD
2 dreams = 1-1668
40 sc with 1-72 LD mod = 40-2880
and why won't the charm damage get doubled? I thought it would be like dream where the damage is added, then multiplied by LM, and then once again multiplied by LM when you're stricking with your melee blow :P

[Uzziah]

when I calced it to be about 150k I tried with the best possible legit items within my calc's even though I don't have those items.
Weapon: Fathom = 40% LD 3+ sorc skills with perfect light facet = 45% LD
Amulet: 3+ lightning skills + atributes
Helm: Dream or Griffon with perf light facet (Haevn't tried to calc with griffon) +15 to HS or 20% LD + 1 sorc skill
Armor: perfect lightning Ormus with perf light facet 3+ energy shiel (So the lvl 40 ES can be reach, though I'm not going to try to achieve that right now since I'm only watching the damage ;)) + 20% LD
Shield: Dream lvl 15 HS
Gloves: Frostburns (for the ES sorc)
Rings: Sojs 2+ skill
Belt: Arach 1+ skill
Boots: Silkweave (Yet again for ES)
10+ light skills GC
1+ skills anni
29 * (1-72 light dam. SC) = 29-2088 lightning damage


Ok slvl 30 Holy Shock is 1-1668 damage.

you have in total:
lightning mastery: 20+3+3+2+1+11(charms) so slvl 40 LM = 518%

Enhanced lightning damage: 45%+20% = 65%

So damage from lightning on attack from holy shock =
1*(1+5.18)*(1*(5.18+.65) = 42
1668*(1+5.18)*(1*(5.18+.65) = 70405

Where are you getting the 150K damage from?

[Lazy_BerZerker]

Ok slvl 30 Holy Shock is 1-1668 damage.

you have in total:
lightning mastery: 20+3+3+2+1+11(charms) so slvl 40 LM = 518%

Enhanced lightning damage: 45%+20% = 65%

So damage from lightning on attack from holy shock =
1*(1+5.18)*(1*(5.18+.65) = 42
1668*(1+5.18)*(1*(5.18+.65) = 70405

Where are you getting the 150K damage from?

Okay I guess I'm calculating differing then? :S
I do it like this
Damage = 1-1668
Now I include the lightning mastery = 1668 * (1+5,18)^2 = 64K
Now I include to % to lightning skills = 64K * 1,65 = 105K
Hmm I was sure I had it way higher before :S I hate when I calculate :( one day I get a, and the other I get b, well I still get more damage than you :P maybe I'm doing something wrong in my calculations? I guess the main difference lies in your last part:
1*(5.18+.65)
That is where I say (1+5,12) * 1,65 hmm if I'm wrong then I apologize my prior comments :-P

[Uzziah]

Okay I guess I'm calculating differing then? :S
I do it like this
Damage = 1-1668
Now I include the lightning mastery = 1668 * (1+5,18)^2 = 64K
Now I include to % to lightning skills = 64K * 1,65 = 105K
Hmm I was sure I had it way higher before :S I hate when I calculate :( one day I get a, and the other I get b, well I still get more damage than you :P maybe I'm doing something wrong in my calculations? I guess the main difference lies in your last part:
1*(5.18+.65)
That is where I say (1+5,12) * 1,65 hmm if I'm wrong then I apologize my prior comments :-P

The reason it is there is that +%Ldamage is added at the same time as Lightning mastery. From what I know about game mechanics (RTB Thrugg, others please correct me) the Enhanced lightning damage is treated the same as lightning mastery and is just added directly to lightning mastery when the attack is made.

Multiplying it by the whole function would be really nice, but as you can see other skills get it multiplied by the skill upon attack. Since melee damage gets the added lightning mastery and ED you add them directly there. now the bonus they give to the pulse on the other hand would be multiplying it by 1.65, since your attacking with the skill and the lightning mastery is not included in the attack, but the skill itself.

[Phaeax]

By the way, Death's Fathom has +25%-40% lightning resistance, not damage. If you wanted to enhance the damage, your best bet would be a 20% lightning damage Eschuta's Temper.

But, since you're doing such high damage anyway, it's probably better to hit faster than hit a little stronger. An eldrich orb has terrible range and only gets in a 16 frame attack without IAS. A Passion phase blade gets a 12/8 Zeal without any IAS, and a phase blade with 3 Shael runes can hit the 10 frame attack, with room for 3 more facets.

Then there's the Bear sorc. Use a Beast weapon to transform to a bear, and in addition to getting more life, you get the Druid's werebear attack speeds. A 6 Shael phase blade hits the 4 frame attack speed, meaning you'll hit 4 times faster than that Eschuta's.

[Lazy_BerZerker]

By the way, Death's Fathom has +25%-40% lightning resistance, not damage. If you wanted to enhance the damage, your best bet would be a 20% lightning damage Eschuta's Temper.

But, since you're doing such high damage anyway, it's probably better to hit faster than hit a little stronger. An eldrich orb has terrible range and only gets in a 16 frame attack without IAS. A Passion phase blade gets a 12/8 Zeal without any IAS, and a phase blade with 3 Shael runes can hit the 10 frame attack, with room for 3 more facets.

Then there's the Bear sorc. Use a Beast weapon to transform to a bear, and in addition to getting more life, you get the Druid's werebear attack speeds. A 6 Shael phase blade hits the 4 frame attack speed, meaning you'll hit 4 times faster than that Eschuta's.

Can see you have been reading one of the guides in here ;)