+skills on druid helms Q

[PraetorianX]

I looked it up on Arreat summit and found that druid helms can spawn with +1-3 to a skill, 1-3 times on an item. I am wondering though, if one could ever spawn +3 elemental skills, +3 hurricane, etc. Or can it only do specific skills?

can +3 'cane, +3 tornado ever spawn together- cause i'm searchin and it just isnt happenin lol

[bunghole]

lol i too am looking for a 3 hurricane 3 tornado helm for delerium...im pretty sure it can spawn, just very slim chances.

On the other hand, im not too sure how the + elemental mods work...im interested what the knowledged people will say.

[PraetorianX]

heh, tough one to find isnt it ;) I havent found one with +elemental skills yet, maybe they cant be, or maybe i'm unlucky .

[Runesi]

A white helm for delerium CANT have +3 elemental ALONG with +3 nado/hurricane. The best you can get it +3nado/hurricane/cyclone armor. I suggest a druidh helm with +3 nado and +1 armadgedon because thats the only move other than normal attack you can use if you morph. If you need a screenshot, I'll post a picture of my delerium. However a magic druid helm can get +3 elemental, with up to 3 +3 moves (Example: Tornado/Hurricane/Cyclone Armor)

[Uzziah]

I have a +1 elemental, +3 hurricane, +3 armageddon pelt that I use with my dual elemental druid. I got it as a gift, it was very hard to find I am sure.

Getting the 6th tier and 3 tier on the same helm is hard to do, both only have a 10% chance of changing tiers before the chance of the specific staffmod.
that's a 1/100 shot before adding in the other variables.

For your delerium helm you should be able to find some of the staffmods for hurricane/tornado/cyclone armor on the same pelt the sockets and 3/3/3 is what will make it very hard to do.

Your overall chance to get the 3 skills listed is going to make you think twice about it though.

To get the 3 staffmods you have a 1/10 chance.

To get +3 hurricane you have a 1/10 chance for +3, 1/10 chance for tier 6, 1/5 chance for hurricane so 1/500 chance to spawn hurricane.

To get +3 Tornado you have a 1/10 chance for +3, 1/2 chance for tier 5, 1/5 chance for Tornado so a 1/100 chance to spawn tornado.

To get +3 Cyclone Armor you have a 1/10 chance for +3, 1/10 chance for tier 3, 1/5 chance for Cyclone Armor so 1/500 chance to spawn Cyclone Armor.

So in total 1/10*1/500*1/500*1/100 a 1/250,000,000 chance to get that pelt in a white pelt. :surprise: that's less than the chance to find a Zod.

[Uzziah]

can +3 'cane, +3 tornado ever spawn together- cause i'm searchin and it just isnt happenin lol

Just a quick repsonse on this part, yes they can form together, the chances are small though.

You have a 30% chance of 2-3 staffmods which you would need, then you have the chance for hurricane which is 1/10*1/5 and the chance for tornado which is 1/2*1/5, then the chance that they both go to +3 so 1/10*1/10

Which is a 3/10*1/10*1/5*1/2*1/5*1/10*1/10 = 3/500,000 so about 6 of every million pelt will spawn with +3 hurricane/ +3 tornado together. The chance is a bit better if you get 3 staffmods since you have 2 chances if you miss on of them, I don't want to work through those statistics though.

[Thrugg]

Uzz, in fact it is better than that (not enough better to be reasonable to try for it, but still...) - the order is not important (ie you could spawn hurricane first then tornado or vice versa) so it is twice the chance you list on a 2 staffmod roll. Likewise, on a 3 staffmod roll it is 6 times (but with the smaller 10% chance of getting 3 staffmods of course).

These simply sum, so all up it will be 10/500,000 = 1/50,000.

[Uzziah]

Uzz, in fact it is better than that (not enough better to be reasonable to try for it, but still...) - the order is not important (ie you could spawn hurricane first then tornado or vice versa) so it is twice the chance you list on a 2 staffmod roll. Likewise, on a 3 staffmod roll it is 6 times (but with the smaller 10% chance of getting 3 staffmods of course).

These simply sum, so all up it will be 10/500,000 = 1/50,000.

I don't believe I took order into account just stated that they have the chance per each staffmod found.

I agree that it would be slightly better but its still only a minute possiblity.

You and I both know that your better at probablities than I am. Let me try working this out.

They are additive but order would control the probablities greatly.

chance for +3 hurricane would be 1/10*1/5*1/10 = 1/500
chance for +3 Tornado would be 1/2*1/5*1/10 = 1/100

So if the item rolls 2 staffmods your first staffmod has

1/500+1/100 = 6/500 chance to roll either +3 hurricane or +3 tornado

If hurricane is rolled you have a 1/100 chance that the second staffmod could be tornado.

so 6/500*1/100 = 6/50,000

If tornado is rolled you have a 1/500 chance that the second staffmod could be hurricane.

so 6/500*1/500 = 6/250,000

So:

30/250,000+6/250,000 = 36/250,000 if 2 staffmods on a weapon.

Then you have the 3 staffmod probability from the above numbers on the first staffmod you have:

6/500 of either to spawn.

If the first one fails you have the same as above 36/250,000

If the first succeeds the second staffmod would then have 6/50,000 & 6/250,000 (as above) if the second fails you have 6/50,000 & 6/250,000 again so you have to take them twice.

2(30/250,000+6/250,000) = 72/250,000 if the first one succeeds.

in total for the 3 staffmod situation:

36/250,000 + 72/250,000 = 108/250,000

In total for 2 and 3 staffmodded pelts its:

108/250,000 + 36/250,000 = 154/250,000

That is your chance for 30% of all pelts that drop. so a 3/10 would be multiplied.

462/2,500,000 ~ 9.24/50,000

[Lazy_BerZerker]

so it isn't lower than the chance of getting a zod? :S:S:S:S:S:S TOTALLY CONFUSED NOW :D:P

[PraetorianX]

okay, so realistically, what would be good stats to find on a white helm to use for delirium that would not be so impossible to find? Should i go with tornado or hurricane? any opinions?

i'm also confused now- should i forget makin the delerium and go with jalals? I read something in the druid forum saying that ppl think that jalals is the best wind druid helm.


i would love to see a screenshot runesi

[The_Duffman]

Although +3 Nado + 3 Hurricane would be the most desierable you have to remember that Hurricane is not the main attack, only there for a little extra damage and to stun.

I have a Delerium (+3 Nado, + 1 Cyclone Armor) and it works fine. I would be on the look out for a +3 Nado with any other good second skill and it will be worth making delerium. Mine adds over1 K to my Tornado damage.

Just My 0.02$.

Duff

[Runesi]

Nado matters more than Hurricane. Try looking for a 3Nado. Other mods such as 3 hurricane and 3 cyclone armor are good even if they're only 1 but you need 3 nado. Also, if you morph you won't be able to do anything except normal attack and/or armageddon which is also a reason to have a +1 armageddon in it if you have it.

[Thrugg]

They are additive but order would control the probablities greatly.

chance for +3 hurricane would be 1/10*1/5*1/10 = 1/500
chance for +3 Tornado would be 1/2*1/5*1/10 = 1/100

So if the item rolls 2 staffmods your first staffmod has

1/500+1/100 = 6/500 chance to roll either +3 hurricane or +3 tornado

If hurricane is rolled you have a 1/100 chance that the second staffmod could be tornado.

so 6/500*1/100 = 6/50,000

If tornado is rolled you have a 1/500 chance that the second staffmod could be hurricane.

so 6/500*1/500 = 6/250,000

So:

30/250,000+6/250,000 = 36/250,000 if 2 staffmods on a weapon.

While you are correct with the chance of getting +3 H or +3 T, that number should not be used in the next step.

You only have a 1/100 chance of rolling +3T on the second mod if the first mod was +3H, not if it was either (ie you can't get +3T and then +3T again).
So the chance of getting +3H followed by +3T is just 1/500 * 1/100 = 1/50K.
Likewise the chance of getting +3T followed by +3H is 1/100 * 1/500 = 1/50K also. In general these will be symmetrical and since multiplication commutes, we can just simplify it to (2 orders) * (1/500) * (1/100) = 2/50K if you get 2 staffmods.

If you roll 3 staffmods, there are 6 possibilites - 3 places the H could go times 2 slots left for the T (or the other way around). So it is 6/50K if you get 3 staffmods.

In total for 2 and 3 staffmodded pelts its:

108/250,000 + 36/250,000 = 154/250,000

That is your chance for 30% of all pelts that drop. so a 3/10 would be multiplied.

462/2,500,000 ~ 9.24/50,000

You also have to apply the chance of each number of mods independently, you can't add together the two categories (2 and 3) as one.

There is 2/10 chance of 2 staffmods and 1/10 chance of 3. So we get:
(2/10 * 2/50K) + (1/10 * 6/50K) = 10/500K = 1/50K.

As a rule of thumb, this can be used to work out any two staffmods together, as most of those numbers there will always be the same, and you get 10 times 10% chances effectively cancelling itself out, it will always simplify down to chance of staffmod X and staffmod Y = chance of X alone times chance of Y alone. Which is neat to the point of seeming deliberate.

[Uzziah]

While you are correct with the chance of getting +3 H or +3 T, that number should not be used in the next step.

You only have a 1/100 chance of rolling +3T on the second mod if the first mod was +3H, not if it was either (ie you can't get +3T and then +3T again).
So the chance of getting +3H followed by +3T is just 1/500 * 1/100 = 1/50K.
Likewise the chance of getting +3T followed by +3H is 1/100 * 1/500 = 1/50K also. In general these will be symmetrical and since multiplication commutes, we can just simplify it to (2 orders) * (1/500) * (1/100) = 2/50K if you get 2 staffmods.

If you roll 3 staffmods, there are 6 possibilites - 3 places the H could go times 2 slots left for the T (or the other way around). So it is 6/50K if you get 3 staffmods.


That's the part that was throwing me.

:worship: :worship: :worship: You are still far better at statistics than me. I guess 1 class being taught by a very poor bilingual teacher isn't enough to understand Statistics.