some advice

[TheDarkSide]

So Iv'e decided that Im tired of the Nats Set sitting on a mule and Im going to make a new assassin . Having never really liked the assassin class too much , I tried a trapper to about level 50 and a hybrid to level 40 or so Im thinking about making a dual claw build . Iv'e read the guides and most people think Nats Set sucks for the most part . Knowing this I still want to try it out . So I'll be maxxing TS , DC , PS , and maybe SM . Is the weapon block skill a must - most say up to level 10 or so . And would Fade be better than BOS for this build as I think max resists are gonna be hard in hell . Also I was curious about the other claw . I got the choice of Bartucs or the Jade Talon . The Talon is only +1 , +1 skills wise but has 50 all resists . Any advice would be helpful as I dont know much at all about dual claw builds .. Btw this is for PvM and probably with one other person as a team .

Thanks

[samboXIII]

decide if ur gonna go for claw damage or elemental damage.
i wouldn't max tiger strike with dragon claw.
maybe phoenix, with CoThunder as synergy.
forget about TS unless ur going to use dTail. which would be silly with Nats (boots suck for kicksin)
as for fade, i hope u have some IAS jewels for the nats armour. don't forget venom is uber.
or the trapsin route, but Nats is pretty gruesome overall. not on a par with Tals, Trangs or IK. (i play assassins almost exclusivly, would love to make a WW sin, but can't get the chaos yet).
if you go dual claws, max weapon block, or at least 15 or so points depending on end gear. i think you want at least 60% block.. or use one claw and a shield, but costs a little in dex.
bartucs rock, but the jade talon does great things for resists. beware your attack rating.

[ilkori]

Nat's set is a great build, but it is only suited for two builds: physical C/C or a PS variant. Like all the sets, you can build a much more powerful character with uniques/set/runewords than the set. As samboXIII said, you will want to chose between physical and elemental. A hybrid is possible, but not pracitcal. Traps are not a good option since the set has so few +traps as mods.

Resists are not nearly the problem you might suspect. I would use Jade + Bartucs until you can equip Nat's claw, but then I would switch to Nat's + Bartucs. Bartucs is far more useful, and it takes very little boost to finish your resists if you have the full set and an annihilus charm. Go with BoS, you need the IAS from the skill to hit the maximum attack speed.


Tiger Strike is practically useless on this build. By the time you have charged it all up, it is usually better to just use Dragon Claw the full time anyway. In essence, it is a wasted 20 points. Venom or a synergy would be far more beneficial.

Phoenix Strike is one of the possible routes, but you will need a synergy (preferrably two) to make it work well. Claws of Thunder with a secondary Fists of Fire is typical, but Blades of Ice can work well also. If you go the Phoenix Strike route, you will need to change your hotkey setup to switch between all of your primary skills, one point wonders, and your buffing skills.

The physical build would use maxed Dragon Claw with maxed Claw Mastery as the base.


Here is a typical setup I would use:

20 Pheonix Strike (main attack)
20 Claws of Thunder (main attack)
20 Fists of Fire (secondary attack)
1 Dragon Claw (finishing move)
10-13 Shadow Master (for level 17-18 after +skills)
~5 Weapon Block (with +skills it'll give you 50% or so block, which is all I use)
1-3 BoS
1 Venom, Cloak of Shadows, Mind Blast, Blade Fury, Death Sentry, Dragon Flight


The equipment is usually:
Nat's Set (claw as primary)
Bartucs (secondary claw)
+3 MA gloves with 20 IAS (or +2 with other mods, such as CB)
Belt of choice (I use goldwrap for IAS, MF)
Ammy with +skills and other mods as available (Mara's is perfect)
Ravenfrost (CBF)
Ring with mana leech, other mods (optional, I prefer chugging blue)

Socekts can either be used for resists or damage.

[TheDarkSide]

Interesting . I was planning on going Dual Claws because I tried a trapper and found it to be very boring and not my style . I want to be able to mix it up and get in the fray . I would think the first skill to max would be TS due to the incredible physical damage . Couldnt I go max TS and max Phoenix using Dragon claw as the finisher ? I dont know much about the assassin skills but that would seem to be the best of both worlds to me . Physical and Elemental charged up and then Dragon claw for discharge .. And NO I wont be gettting an Annihilus as Iv'e never even seen the Dclone and Im not playing ladder . This is HC non ladder that Im playing and I dont know if he even spawns on non ladder . And why Venom ? I didnt look at the synergys - I assume it boosts one those skills you mentioned ? Also I was looking at my items this morning and I think I got an older version of Nats armor cause it doesnt have any sockets . Its been sitting on a mule for a long time and I finally ID'ed it today . I actually sold a Nats armor I found the other day as I had 2 of them muled and didnt even notice they dont have sockets . Im sure I'll find another one before I hit level 73 anyways so im not too worried there . But if thats the case with the skills you mentioned I gotta start over already at level 14 . I got 7 points in TS and was going to max it .

[ilkori]

If you found the trapper boring, you sure weren't playing it the way I tend to play! :jig:

The damage on Tiger Strike looks very inviting, but it is not worth the points for any build (except Dragon Tail or a level 12 PvP build). The issue is not how much damage you do, but how much damage you do over a set amount of time. The charging time kills any benefit you would get from the skill otherwise. When releasing, it only applies once to Dragon Claw and Dragon Talon (on the first hit), so every hit after that will be at regular damage. I cannot stress enough how useless Tiger Strike is on a Natalya's set build.

The other issue with TS on an assassin is the very low physical damage of claws. Nat's Mark (one of the highest damaging claws) only does 136.5 average damage compared to the 300+ average damage of a comparable Barbarian weapon.


Phoenix Strike requires synergies to do any kind of respectable damage. One synergy is a must, two is recommended.

A level 1 venom is added damage. Period. It only costs you 2 points (1 into fade, one into venom) and pays off in many situations where monsters have high resistance to lit/fire. PS sins live on multiple types of damage, and are able to capitalize on enemy weakness rather than raw power. It will also increase the power of your Master due to the way skills are calculated (read the FAQ for more details).

[TheDarkSide]

The physical build would use maxed Dragon Claw with maxed Claw Mastery as the base.

Here is a typical setup I would use:
20 Pheonix Strike (main attack)
20 Claws of Thunder (main attack)
20 Fists of Fire (secondary attack)
1 Dragon Claw (finishing move)
10-13 Shadow Master (for level 17-18 after +skills)
~5 Weapon Block (with +skills it'll give you 50% or so block, which is all I use)
1-3 BoS
1 Venom, Cloak of Shadows, Mind Blast, Blade Fury, Death Sentry, Dragon
Flight

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Ok Im a bit confused concerning skills still . I remade my sin and Im at level 22 now . Iv'e only put some points in claw mastery (10) and 3 in Bos . Should I max dragon claw and claw mastery as well as PS . cot , fof ? Or was that for the physical build your referring to . I guess I need to read the faqs again . I hope I didnt waste 22 levels yet again ..

[TheDarkSide]

Ok , Im kinda slow but I finally get what your saying . I also read a nice post by skygoneblue ? concerning Nats Set build . Im gonna keep this character going even though I put 10 into claw mastery already . I figure Ar can never be a bad thing . Im thinking I'll have at least + 7 to skills so I'll still be able to max FOF , COT , and PS and still be ok elsewhere . Im wondering about Venom still though because I noticed it cancels out Bos when in use . Is it worth using Venom even at level 1 + whatever skills or would my build be better raising SM with any extra points I have ...

[ilkori]

Venom does not cancel BoS in 1.10. In 1.09 (and before) it would override... but not in the latest patch. Fade, however, will override BoS.

[TheDarkSide]

Excellent - then Im looking forward to getting her going now . And I found a 2 socket Nats on another Mule so alls good . Thanks for al the info and explanation . Now Its time to game !!!!


:thumbsup:

[Aron Figaro]

That looks a lot like the PS assassin build I'm working on, though I'm not using Nat's (boots will probably be Treks, armour will be whatever I can get my hands on, weapons will be 2x Bartucs, helm...Gaze if I can get it).

The question is, can I be a reliable killer in Hell? Sorceresses just make Phoenix Strike look silly because you need a pair of attacks to charge up, then a finisher. That's like 20+ frames there. A Sorceress can let quite a bit of damage rip in that time...what about us?

[TheDarkSide]

The only real problem Im having so far is getting my meteor to drop consistantly . I have to concentrate real hard to get it off . Maybe due to the fact that dual claws hit and usually trigger 2 charges most of the time . But its cool when I can get the meteor to drop on consecutive attacks . Just takes a lot of concentration to do it .. Hehehe ..

[TheDarkSide]

A little progress update . Just hit level 46 and starting to like this character a lot . I got +10 to MA skills and thats making it much easier so far . About to step into Nm Act 1 today and look forward to seeing how I fare . Im finding I seldom need to use Cobra Strike as my leech is enuff to keep me full all the time . Im sure that will change once I get into Nm and Hell though . I was curious how much Dex you guys would reccomend for a Ma SIn . Right now Im at 80 base Dex , with one Bartucs thats 100 and once I get the nats hat Ill be 119 . Im thinking the rest will got into Vit as Im good on my strength req too once I don the Nats hat . Iv'e got an 80 percent chance to hit things now . With my druid companions level 22 Oak Iv'e got plenti of life and Im having fun playing this chic so far ..