Bizarre Barb Dueler

[JanusJones]

Hey folks - just getting started on this forum, but I've read the strats here for a while, and for all the advice - thanks!

I'm not a dueler myself, but I've recently begun to feel an itch to build one just for fun. I am a fan of weird char types - just posted a thread on some of my proto-builds on the general strat forum here (http://forums.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?p=3238436#post3238436) - and I wanted some feedback on a weird barb idea I had.

I've played a singing barb, and got a kick outta stunning melee combatants with rapid fire yells. However, my rapidly-emptying blue globe would often get me in trouble, and as a solo char my poor vocalist just wasn't viable (one boss pack and BOOM - instant death!).

My new idea is for a weird variant on the singer platform: the stunner. Maxing Stun and War Cry gives Stun an unmatched (for stunning skills - Mind Blast, Shock Wave, and War Cry) 9 second stun duration - more than enough to keep any dueler locked up while you whomp on them. Now, if one were to max a Mastery (for the AR, mostly), max War Cry, max Stun, and, of course, max BO . . . it just might work!

As far as strategy, one would yell at an opponent as they approached (I'm imagining only melee duelers at this point) to get them stunned, then run up and frantically clobber them with Stun. If even ONE attack got through, they would be nicely stunned for a while longer!

I think the only option would be to build a REALLY fast weapon for this . . . Wind maybe? BOTD in a Phase Blade (though it seems a waste . . .)?

Thanks folks, and please let me know what you think of my strangeness!

[qazxswcde]

you cant stun a oppenent if you dont hit (shield ar shield also stops your wc)also i dont think stun does what you seem to think it does on top of that ww,zeal are both uninteruptable and smite well kill you in 3/4 hits (under a second)
try a ww barb usin a botd

[Ash Housewares]

argh, the guy wants to do something unusual don't tell him to ww and botd thats vile

anyways, the problem with stun is that you can't get any faster than 9frames and the other guys are gonna be hitting you much faster than that

you could try a wolfbarb or something like that, there used to be a pvp singer guide

[JanusJones]

argh, the guy wants to do something unusual don't tell him to ww and botd thats vile

anyways, the problem with stun is that you can't get any faster than 9frames and the other guys are gonna be hitting you much faster than that

you could try a wolfbarb or something like that, there used to be a pvp singer guide

Preciate the advice, guys!

Altho, my thought was to yell at them as they closed in, buying enough time for the slower Stun attack. Just a thought tho - my thing is making strange chars. Incidentally, this may not be the place for it, but Ash - I've read your Frenzy guide, and thanks! I have a Frenzy variant which I've just posted on the barb forum (along with a repeat of the Stun idea - sorry!) which I would LOVE your expert opinion on. Dual wield with Passion in one hand and ebotd in the other; put one pt in Frenzy (just for the speed chargeup - any more and Zeal would be pointless), power up the speed, then Zeal! I think one could reach (with some research) the 4 fps swing rate - which would be fun on a non-ww barb. I've also been thinking about doing a Venom assy with Zeal . . . might be fun, despite the obvious AR problems (Demon Limb on weapon switch, I figure).

Thanks again, and lemme know what you think!

[Squelch]

Preciate the advice, guys!

Altho, my thought was to yell at them as they closed in, buying enough time for the slower Stun attack. Just a thought tho - my thing is making strange chars. Incidentally, this may not be the place for it, but Ash - I've read your Frenzy guide, and thanks! I have a Frenzy variant which I've just posted on the barb forum (along with a repeat of the Stun idea - sorry!) which I would LOVE your expert opinion on. Dual wield with Passion in one hand and ebotd in the other; put one pt in Frenzy (just for the speed chargeup - any more and Zeal would be pointless), power up the speed, then Zeal! I think one could reach (with some research) the 4 fps swing rate - which would be fun on a non-ww barb. I've also been thinking about doing a Venom assy with Zeal . . . might be fun, despite the obvious AR problems (Demon Limb on weapon switch, I figure).

Thanks again, and lemme know what you think!

While your warcry will stun them, you'll have to keep hitting to stunlock. It's not like monsters where they'll be unable to act after the first stun. So, if between wc and stun they get some attacks off... or just use uninterruptables... that will be your weakness. I forgot how fhr affects stun.

[TippSoulja]

While I don't know how effective stun would be, I can tell you that WarCry is a very tricky thing in PvP. I have found with my pure PvP WarCry Barb that there are certain players he has no chance against.

There is some math involved with this so bare with me.

Assume you have a warcry damage of 1200, which in PvP is 200 damage.

For a player to go into hit recovery animation 1/12 of their hit points damage must be done. So a player with 2000 hp will go into hit recovery animation when ~167 damage is done to them. Since you do 200 damage you can put them into hit recovery stun lock and continue doing damage until they are dead or if they have insane FHR they may escape or attack.

Now lets say they have 2500 hp, and you try to WarCry them but instead of hit recovery animation all that happens is the little swhirly thing above their head and they can easily kill you. Why? Becuause at 2500 hp you would need to deal ~208 damage which is just out of your reach.

Even worse news is that a sorc with a decent lvl energy shield can tank you pretty easily because it lowers the damage you do to their hps. This can also be true of bone necros with good bone armour. Forget Barbs, Pallys and High life assasins(especailly uninteruptable attacks like mentioned above) they all have way too much life and usually plenty of FHR.

(Some one please correct me if any of this sounds off)

In no way I am saying don't make a WarCry Barb, in fact I completely love mine. I am saying they have several disadvantages in PvP and will struggle even with the best gear. I think you should try Stun, I would be curious to hear about its viability in PvP, but note that if you don't max all of the WarCry Snyergies, your WarCry won't come close to the necessary damge needed to use it effectively.

Good Luck and have fun

[Pherdnut]

How does stun affect other players? Like can casters still cast, etc.? I've been stunned by monsters but it didn't really seem to be a serious problem for more than a fraction of a second.

[JanusJones]

While I don't know how effective stun would be, I can tell you that WarCry is a very tricky thing in PvP. I have found with my pure PvP WarCry Barb that there are certain players he has no chance against.

There is some math involved with this so bare with me.

Assume you have a warcry damage of 1200, which in PvP is 200 damage.

For a player to go into hit recovery animation 1/12 of their hit points damage must be done. So a player with 2000 hp will go into hit recovery animation when ~167 damage is done to them. Since you do 200 damage you can put them into hit recovery stun lock and continue doing damage until they are dead or if they have insane FHR they may escape or attack.

Now lets say they have 2500 hp, and you try to WarCry them but instead of hit recovery animation all that happens is the little swhirly thing above their head and they can easily kill you. Why? Becuause at 2500 hp you would need to deal ~208 damage which is just out of your reach.

Even worse news is that a sorc with a decent lvl energy shield can tank you pretty easily because it lowers the damage you do to their hps. This can also be true of bone necros with good bone armour. Forget Barbs, Pallys and High life assasins(especailly uninteruptable attacks like mentioned above) they all have way too much life and usually plenty of FHR.

(Some one please correct me if any of this sounds off)

In no way I am saying don't make a WarCry Barb, in fact I completely love mine. I am saying they have several disadvantages in PvP and will struggle even with the best gear. I think you should try Stun, I would be curious to hear about its viability in PvP, but note that if you don't max all of the WarCry Snyergies, your WarCry won't come close to the necessary damge needed to use it effectively.

Good Luck and have fun

Thanks man! I've played a Singer myself, and the only really annoying part was running out of blue. If I could get someone in the range of my yell, I was pretty much garunteed to lock them - not from damage, but from overlapping stun effects. They generally coulden't escape the radius if I got them once, and certainly never got close enough to land a hit. The Stun idea was simply a different/new take. I want to give Stun a chance, but I don't really have the equip I'd want; I need to find an Arreat's somewhere and an eth 6 socket (sigh . . . been waiting for that forever! I have thought of socketing it in a phase blade though, just for the speed . . . seems a waste though). I do have a pretty nice rare singer helm (70 some str required, +1 barb levels, +3 War Cry, +40 life, some other minor mods) which I could use, I suppose.

Thanks for all the thoughts, people! If anyone else thinks this build is worth a go (or has any thoughts on equip . . .), drop a line!

[uglybeast]

I don't see why not? (assuming not too late to post?)
I am not too bright on melee, (used to play necromancer for primary, still do play a summoner but learning semi-melee via rabid druid) but synergies aside, wouldn't bash be a better idea 'cause it would force opponent into a distance? Kinda like a barbarian's version of smite? PLEASE use simple language 'cause some of the tech blah blah don't make too much sense.

Long explanation: (I am assuming warcries are considered spells (for faster warcries)) If a 6 sheal'ed phaseblade (add a Ignore target's defence rune or eth for -25% def?) is used with 2 faster casting rings and lidless for +1 skills+faster cast you could quickly force opponent into a distance with ease? Or would a wizspike be better for casting reasons? A weapon with knockback with stun instead of bash?

[Phyrexial]

Let's clear up some things:

1) You do not need to do 1/12th of your opponents hp to send them into hit recovery frames. If you hit someone with an attack that results in that little swirly white thing over their head, any damage they take with that on them will result in hit recovery. This is the basis of the Assassin's trap lock. Mind blast them so they get that white swirly on them then they lay Wake of Fire traps under them to stun lock them. WoF does practically no damage, probably like 5 pvp damage, but it still stuns them as much as anything. WoF is the stunlocking trap of choice because it hits very fast so it continuously stuns over and over at a fast rate, thus locking the target.

Applying this to your singer, you should stun them as soon as the second Warcry hits because they should have a swirly over their head from the first. Once you hit them once, any further attacks regardless of damage, that actually land will result in stun. The first hit has stunning properties, they just aren't the same.

2) Stun length is vastly reduced in PvP, I doubt you would manage to get a hit of Stun in on your target before they got out of your Warcry stun. The Stun attack is simply too slow and against a max block opponent you're just screwed because 3/4 times you will not land that hit to maintain the stun lock

3) Stun is not even comparable to Smite because Smite never misses because of it's ITD nature (ignores defense) and the fact that it is unblockable.

@Uglybeast: With a Warcry build that relies on stunning, you want to keep your target as close as possible to maintain your stun lock. Once they get out of your effective radius they are no longer stunned, thus back to killing you.

Also, I'm not sure if you are implying that a 6 Shael'ed weapon will increase your cast speed, but it doesn't incase you were. ITD mods on gear do not work in PvP although the Eth rune does have some effect but it is negligible in high level dueling. Either way, a 6 Shael'ed weapon of any kind would do pitiful damage. You'd never kill anyone even remotely decent with it.