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View Full Version : The Curseless Poisonmancer - An idea?


Loxo
10-02-2005, 16:11
Hi guys, new poster to the forums allthough I have been reading them for some time now. Alot of great information here.

DISCLAIMER: I am not trying to make a guide per say here. I am planning a character looking for feedback. Allthough I have never seen one specifically I am sure a guide very very similar to this build exists somewhere. I am not trying to steal ideas etc. Mostly I am just trying to get some input from folks about some of the ideas I had for a new character I am building. And, to see if I can improve it before I actually finish my character. So no haters please. If you "don't want to read another poisonmancer guide" then hit the little Back key in your browser.

***What I want out of my Poisonmancer***
First of all, like all my builds, I like to create PVM characters that are a powerhouse in hell mode. Also, I solo alot. And, I like to kill large crowds FAST. I dont really PvP so I try to make my characters the best PvMers possible. I also want to be able to kill immunes (in this case poison). I can deal with a little less speed when I encouter immunes but I need to be able to kill them somehow, and not ridiculously slow. On this particular character I dont really care about Magic Find. I do my MFing with my Sorc. But, I do want to be able to effecively do solo Baal runs since if you can do these you can pretty much do anything. I am softcore so no need to be extra safe. I am also wealthy but not rich. I dont have access to the high high runewords but I can afford equipment valued in the pul - ist range.

***STATS*** Stats are easy. I am a fan of blocking so I will get dex high enough to get at least near max blocking (Prolly in the 160-180 range depending on shield, level, and equipment. I just monitor the % and keep it below 65% when I get lvl80+ in case I add dex equipment/charms). I will get Str high enough to wear equipment I think 93 with trang shield allows you to equip marrowalks), I will put no points in energy, rest in Vitality. Pretty standard stuff here. Alot of people would rather have the HPs vs. the blocking. If you come from that school of thought just leave dex alone and put it all in vitality. But since Poisonmancers need to get up close and personal to hit with their Nova I think blocking is especially nice with this build. Dex is also handy to equip certain daggers for poison dagger before you get nova.

***SKILLS*** I usually try to think in terms of 100 skill points when I plan out a character (12 from quests 88 from levels) since I dont usually go much higher than level 90 with my characters. I first laid out what I knew I wanted for this build then started looking at a few potential options. I would like feedback from you guys on the options

THE CORE BUILD
The only skills I felt 100% confident that I wanted my poisonmancer to have were of course 60 points to max all poison nova and synergies. I also knew that I needed minion distractions to aid in the survival of myself and my mercenary. I am not looking for my minions to be a major source of damage since I knew I wouldn't have the skill points available to get them up to snuff . I also know I will have to have the ability to curse (lower resists being most important) but I will cover that in options. I also am assuming that I will end up with 8 or more +skills resulting in the ability to cast many revives for the one point investment. I am not sure yet how low level skelly fodder will hold up in hell but it is also an option for fodder distraction with just one point and +skills. Dim Vision is one of my favorites since I like to solo baal run. It really shuts down the Black Souls and any other range attackers. Worth a point if you ask me.

-Poison & Bone-
Teeth 1 (pre-req)
Corpse Explosion 1
Poison Dagger 20
Poison Explosion 20
Poison Nova 20

-Summons-
Raise Skeleton 1 (pre-req to revive & potentially usefull)
Skeleton Mastery 1
Skeletal Mage 1 (pre-req to revive & potentially usefull)
Revive 1
Gumby 1
Golem Mastery 1
Summon Resist 1
Iron Golem 1 (pre-req to revive)
Blood Golem 1 (pre-req to revive)

Curses
Dim Vision 1

TOTAL SKILLS IN CORE BUILD = 72

That leaves me a whooping 28 skill points to figure out how to gain the most benifit from...I will outline two options I thought of from here

THE CONCEPT - THE CURSELESS
I know everyone saw the core build and was wondering where is his curses? I will explain. Given the fact that most of my damage will be from poison I figured that the primary curse I will be running will be Lower Resist. Because diminishing returns with this skill begin to get ridiculous in the teens, and because I knew I would have alot of + skills. I figured it would be pretty pointless to add more than one point to this skill even though it would be my primary curse. The only other curse that might be useful from the curse pre-reqs is decrepify. But I think with gumby + a HF merc you will be fine in terms of slowing bosses. Plus I want lower resist running for bosses anyhow. I looked at the skill tree and wanted to puke. I would have to spend 7! skill points to put that one lousy point in Lower resist. ABSURD! We must find a sneaky way around this dilema! A lightbulb went off. Would it be possible to make a white wand that had the +1 lower resists inherit as a non-magical property?! hrmmmmmm that would save me 7 skill points and just might be brilliant. Does anyone have an experience with this? Is it possible? The dream wand would be a non-magic wand with +3 P&B or Nova and +1-3 Lower resist that was made into a white runeword. The downside to this is you would not be using death's web. But, white with the right stats is probably the next best Poisonmancer wand (+6 P & B possibly) and 7 skill points saved from the curse tree is well...7 skill points. So what to do with the 27 skill points if I go this route? I think there are now two dark paths to take.

PATH #1 - CURSELESS/POISON/CE
This path would use revives, gumby, and merc alone for meatshielding. Skeletons would be puny. The big advantage would be maxed Corpse Explosion. I love corpse explosion and I love boosting the radius. Instead of diminishing returns CE actually gains more and more Square Footage per point spent. The ring around the corpse keeps expanding covering more and more area. Love it. I invision a scenario where I would open against a large pack of mobs with Lower resists then tap back and forth between Nova and CE holding my mouse button down. Since half of CE damage is Fire Lower Resist will still provide some benifit to this skill (probably not as much as amp). The other obvious benifit is a very viable way to tackle your poison immune mobs. I am thinking of getting attract for this path since I have less summons. Attract is a great way to help crowd controlling if you get HUGE mobs. Skill Point distribution for your 27 remaining points for this Path would look like this:

Corpse Explosion 19
Confuse 1
Attract 1
Bone Shield 1
Dim Vision 5 OR Revive 5

PATH #2 - CURSELESS/POISON/SUMMON
This path would utilize additional the additional 27 points towards making your skeletons a more worthy meatshield and more damaging. With a better skeleton army you could probably do fine without attract or a buffed up Dim Vision. Skeletons in this build would probably be able to survive fine in hell and do reasonable damage. You could still use Corpse Explosion with one point and + skill but it would be a pretty small radius. Skill distribution for my 27 remaining skill points would look like this:

Summon Skeleton 19
Skeleton Mastery 7
Bone Shield 1

**MERC- My mercenary would most likely be a holy freeze merc. Might isn't very important since minions aren't a major source of damage anyhow. If I go the Summon path I might consider might since I have more meatshielding and might would benifit my skelly damage. I would hate to loose some corpses but alot don't shatter with holy freeze as I recall. Just some. I also consider the act1 merc to be viable but I think the slowing aura and extra tank would be more benificial to the build. Especially since you have to do alot of up close weaving in and out of traffic while doing your nova. This is much easier and safer navigation when your enemies are slowed down.

**GEAR- would be similar to most other poisonmancer guides except the exception of the white wand with the +(1-3) Lower Resist as necessary. I think Trang glove, belt, shield are a given. SOJs or Bks as rings. Maras or rare/crafted ammy. Shako, Uber-rare helm, or trang if you go with full set. Armor would prolly be Bramble, Viper, or ( Trang + trang helm). Boots most likely Marrowwalks.

So what do you guys think of this build?
How difficult will it be to find this wand? Any tips?
Would this theory work?
Would you recommend CE or Summons?
Think the extra 7 skill points is worth using White instead of death's web?

Also, I have only recently started playing D2 again after a long long break. All my old friends have vanished so I am looking for folks to play with, Baal run with, help rush, trade etc. So hollar at *zorlaklives on USEast Ladder if you wanna play or need some help. I got a good sorc for rushing etc. By the way, I am an intelligent adult so I don't need teenage LOL U R A NEWB rejects on my friend list. Which is like 95% of bnet. And, yes I still have a sense of humor. It just doesn't include acting like a cyber badass to boost my poor self esteem.

Loxo the future poisonmancer is level 24 as of last night. He is just going around poking things with poison dagger right now. That is more fun and effective than I would have guessed at low levels.

Anyhoo, I got a date tonight so I will not be back around till Fri evening. Hollar!

Any positive input would be appreciated!
Peace,
Loxo

Necrochild313
10-02-2005, 16:46
Some of the seven that go down to lower resistance have uses as well, amp damage will allow you to deal MUCH more damage with corpse explosion (with the +skills a typical venomancer recieves to the pnb tree it is powerful without added investment). As you've mentioned Decrepify is a godsend much of the time, especially against those fanat/might pack frenzytaurs that all but necros fear. Holy freeze will be useful but doesn't effect bosses, and gumby alone will not keep bosses from using their skills. Lifetap also has some uses when supporting your merc.

Think the extra 7 skill points is worth using White instead of death's web

I could not object to that more. If you can afford to use/already own a deaths web, I personally cannot find any excuse not to use it. Those 7 points will make it so that removable immunes drop nearly as quickly as non-immunes, and will greatly increase your damage/sec better than an obscene amount of +skills, and will allow you to cast much less, giving it more of a "cast-and-forget" appeal.

Why? This is because -enemy poison resist has the following properties:

It is not effected by the 1/5 penalty of -res effects on immunes.
It increases the final damage/sec after +% damage is taken into consideration, sort of an enhancing an already enhanced damage if you will.
By bug or design, the length your damage/sec occurs is increased by the same % as -res in gear. For example, if you had -50% enemy poison resist in gear, and you poison a monster with 0% poison resistance (to make the numbers easy) is hit with a 4,500 damage poison nova over 2 seconds, it will actually deal 10,125 damage over 3 seconds.

See this thread for more information (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=277202)

However, if you kept a wand with +lower resist/+other useful curses on switch, I see no reason why not to just use that and save yourself a few points.

For those who cannot afford/already have/want to pay for a deaths web, I see no reason why not to use white or blackbogs, I just don't think they should ever be used over deaths web for a nova venomancer.

You may also want to sink a point into attract, as that can affect the decisions of an entire group with only one monster cursed, allowing you to lower resist the rest.

Loxo
10-02-2005, 16:59
Cool man. Thanks for the input. It is why I posted this idea. To see if it was flawed which I sorta assumed it was. OK, so now if I do sink thoose 7 points into the curse tree to get lower resist which do you think is the better skill to boost with my remaining 20 or so skill points? Corpse Explosion or Raise Skeleton?

I have no experience with how well low level or mid level skeletons will survive in hell mode aside from my skellymancer who has all that maxed. They obviously survive very well maxed. Will they survive adequately with like 20 in raise skeleton 1 in skeleton mastery and around 10 + skills?

If they get absolutely pummeled then I see no point in even bothering with them. But if they can serve as a distraction then that would be useful while I go around poisoning.

Also, I assume that putting points into directly into raise skeleton makes your skellys more durable in the long run than putting them in skeleton mastery?

Mad Mantis
10-02-2005, 17:21
OK, so now if I do sink thoose 7 points into the curse tree to get lower resist which do you think is the better skill to boost with my remaining 20 or so skill points? Corpse Explosion or Raise Skeleton?

Welcome Newcomer to The Darkness. Grab a brew (http://www.lgl.bayern.de/de/left/fachinformationen/lebensmittel/warencodes/_images/bier.jpg) and feel free to raise some corpses.

If you want to spend the points in Skellies you should take a look at the [ Essential Necromancer Information ] (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=232935) sticky and look for the guides that deal with Poison/Summon hybrids.

You can also opt to got for extra points in CE. You need some points in the AI curses to keep you safe. After you Nova you will have to hope that there are already corpses on the ground for you to explode. It can be a fun variant, but I can’t really see the benefit of pumping CE beyond the +skills a Venomancer usually gets in P&B.




Also, I assume that putting points into directly into raise skeleton makes your skellys more durable in the long run than putting them in skeleton mastery?

Indeed. A Skellie with 20 in RS and 1 in SM has more life and damage than a Skellie with 20 in SM and 1 in RS. And to top it off you get more Skellies if you invest all the points in RS.

Loxo
10-02-2005, 17:32
Sweet, thanks guys. I know you are probably sick of answering the same questions 1000 time. :thumbsup:

It is all coming together in my mind now and I can spend my skill points with confidence. The masters have spoken and the path is set. Death's Web it is (Got an Ist in the bank to trade for one).

60 Poisons
1 to all curses
Gumby
1 in CE
Rest into skeletons as my last skill to raise skeletons

Thinking Might merc now.

Same thing as another guide I read earlier basically. Now, if I can just get a bramble for poison + my summons might actually do halfway decent damage between thorns and might.

toodles

rickcarson
11-02-2005, 09:48
As for the White wand, I myself made one with Lower Resist. That was back when I thought that Lower Resist helped the Bone spells (it doesn't).

So for ages and ages it languished on various mid level skellimancers and/or bonemancers. Turns out it was perfect for a LoM (lucky me). So it turned out all right in the end, but for at least a year I thought I'd wasted the runes.

Speaking of which, I got an Io from ladder forge today... must check new runewords... nope... nothing cheap. Rats.

Might I suggest an alternate plan?

Given 27 points to spend, why not dump an extra 9 into Revive (giving you 17+ Revives) and the other 18 into CE? (Or 9 into Revive, 9 into CE and 9 into Lower Resist + prereqs)

That will give you much more 'immune killing' power than a handful of whimpy skellies. Sure, Revives aren't as good in Nightmare as they are in Hell, but then in Nightmare hardly anything is poison immune anyway.

bergbusen
11-02-2005, 10:06
i have a curseless necro...
skills is

20 nova
20 dagger
20 explosion
20 sm
15 rs
1 sr
1 gm
1 cg

now im exping a might merc, i have a wand o switch with 3 to lower resist. Have about 4,7 nova damage, skellies does 250 without migth.The most enimiis which are poison resist my merc and skellies can take out, with a little more time. Im looking for wand with 3 nova, 3 skeleton, 3 lower resist..that will ne ultimate. no im using leoric..It works pretty great. Im mfing most of the time-.Pit, travi, shenk, countess, pindle.. its realty fun to play

Loxo
11-02-2005, 15:08
Given 27 points to spend, why not dump an extra 9 into Revive (giving you 17+ Revives) and the other 18 into CE? (Or 9 into Revive, 9 into CE and 9 into Lower Resist + prereqs)

Between cursing, crowd control, poisoning and CEing I stay very busy tapping my keys. I like moving fast and I dont like the time it takes to keep a ton of revives up. Plus you tend to loose them in traveling. If I get 10 revives with one point spent that is enough to suite my taste. More than that just gets to be a chore to keep up.

But that is personal prefernce. I know alot of guys are revive crazy. It seems to me though that revives don't really do eye popping damage in hell. But they are very very hard to kill. Making them excellent shielding foddder while I am Poisoning.